Slow boot times, Windows freezes and cannot repair

[Ph0enix33]

Hello all,

I recently build a computer from parts purchased online. Since getting it build, I have had nothing but problem after problem. My latest issues seem to be in regards to booting. From the time I push the physical power button on my case, it takes roughly 10 seconds for my monitor to receive a signal, and another 10 seconds or so before the "ASUS" post screen flashes. This results in ~20 seconds worth of delay from when I actually power on my computer to when I start loading windows. This seems excessive, but wouldn't be a major cause for concern except I believe it may be related to another issue I am having. Occasionally (10-20% of the time) when I try to start up my computer, it will hang on the Windows 7 logo (where the four colors swirl and merge) and I have to manually hold the power button down to turn the computer off. When I restart, occasionally it will cut itself off after a few seconds (the fans, case lights etc all lose power) and then restart. When it does this, it takes me to a screen giving the option of starting Windows or loading System Repair. When I try to load the repair, it gets to "Attempting Repairs" and stays for a few minutes before telling me that no repairs could be performed. Upon restarting the computer yet again, things seem to work properly, but this is rather unacceptable behavior from a new system in my opinion.

I have also noticed that the Windows start up logo has something of a stuttering problem. Every time I boot, whether its after a repair episode or normally, the logo freezes for a second or two as the 4 dots are coming together, then proceeds, and freezes again for a second or two. This happens 3-4 times while the logo is "forming". Again, I am not sure if this is a minor issue or a symptom of the larger problem, but just want to be thorough and give all the details I can to help in a diagnosis. My thoughts are that the long boot to post times are related to either my MoBo, SSD or PSU. The issues with Windows obviously seems to be a Windows problem, but may have something to do with my drive itself. As mentioned the OS is on my SSD, but I failed to unplug my mechanical hard drive during installation and Windows put the recovery tools on it rather than my SSD (this may have something to do with Windows not being able to repair).

I also fear my PSU may be to blame, as I encountered an incident with it during installation. As I was moving cables around (PSU is mostly modular) some of the release latches seemed to get stuck. This prompted me to use more force, and when the cables came lose, so did the plastic casing/housing (not sure what the exact term is, but if you look at the Corsair 1050w PSU, you can see the black and blue colored 6/8 pin ports on the PSU itself that connect to the cables). I did not notice this until I had several of the cables laying out on the table, and fear this may have damaged or broken my PSU and is causing some of the problems I am getting. On a rare occasion or two, I get an error during start up saying that no keyboard was detected, when it is plugged in, which also seems to point to perhaps a bad PSU. As this has been rather long, I will recap the main questions and concerns I have below.

1. 20+ seconds delay from when I power on the computer to the point the ASUS bios/post screen appears.
2. Windows occasionally hangs at the start up "logo" screen and brings me to the repair tool when I restart, at which point it fails to repair anything.
3. The Windows logo is very choppy as it forms during start up, perhaps indicative of a problem.
4. I dislodged the plastic 6/8 pin connector ports on my modular PSU by pulling to hard on the cables. I do not know if this damaged the PSU or how to check if it did. Windows Freezing during start up, and the occasional "no keyboard detected" seem to suggest there may be an issue with it.

Thank you all very much for any help!

 

[Proximon]

You need to provide a full parts list.

Those ports are soldered to a board. If they have come loose then the solder must be broken.

As to the slow and erratic boot, I don't know. This could be a sign of many things. RAM issues for instance. Overheating. A poor data connection. A failing SSD.

In all this you haven't once mentioned your BIOS. Have you looked at the settings? Have you checked temps?

 

[Ph0enix33]

Very sorry to have left all of that off. Here are my specs:
ASUS Z68 Deluxe Motherboard
2700k
GTX 580
16GB 1600 DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
Corsair 1050w PSU

The ports that have come loose are not the ones soldered to the Motherboard, but rather the pin connector ports that are on the PSU itself. Here is a link to an image of what I am talking about.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139034&Tpk=corsair%201050

If you click one of the pictures to bring up the full list of available pictures, the fourth (first one on the second row) has a view from the front with the blue/black ports that were dislodged. They are basically the ports that connect directly into the PSU for any additional cables you need to attach.

My temperatures on everything that I monitor are fine (mostly just CPU/GPU temps). They stay around 30 idle for my CPU, and 45 idle for my GPU, going up to safe ranges under load.

How would I go about checking if a RAM issue is causing this, or a poor data connection or failing SSD?

My BIOS is the latest version of the UFI BIOS for my Z68 Deluxe. I have gone through all of the settings and have yet to find something that alleviates the problem.

Again, sorry for the lack of information in my original post. Thank you for your comment!

--- Just ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool and it reported no errors. Not sure how thorough it is, but thought I should share the result.

 

[Proximon]

Yes, and THOSE ports are soldered to a board inside the PSU.

Your first test should be to remove 2 of the 4 sticks of RAM. Populating all 4 DIMMs is often problematic. I always discourage it. If that resolves anything we can then work on it.

What ports are your drives connected to? You have the Intel ports and then you have Marvel ports I think.

Are both drives identified correctly in the BIOS? Are the controllers set to AHCI Mode?

 

[Ph0enix33]

My mistake, I thought you meant the ports on the motherboard.

I removed 2 of the RAM sticks (verified the slots with my MoBo manual) and the boot times remained exactly the same.

My drives are connected to the two white Intel 6Gb/s ports (both my SSD and mechanical drive).

The drives are correctly seen in BIOS and AHCI is enabled.

Thanks again for the response!

 

[Proximon]

It is sounding like there is some sort of detection issue at start up.

You still haven't mentioned the model and brand of the SSD, but I would take it out of there and see if that smooths out the POST time issue. If so, I would then install to the HDD and see if the rest of it cleared up.

I would keep the extra RAM out of the system for now. It's really a common issue and it would be best for troubleshooting purposes to keep it simple.

Check with the manufacturers of your drives for testing utilities also.

ATTO is a good general drive benchmarking tool.
http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?sku=Disk_Benchmark
Also HD Tune
http://www.hdtune.com/

 

[Ph0enix33]

My SSD is a 120GB Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe. My mechanical hard drive is a WD Caviar Black 1.5TB.

I disconnected the SSD at the SATA port and the boot times remained the same.

I do not know of any Mushkin made tools to test SSDs, but am familiar with ATTO, AS-SSD, CrystalDisk etc.

Here are the ATTO results, performed just after a restart.

The results seem more or less average. If the SSD and memory can be ruled out, is the main suspect now the PSU?
Thanks for the responses!

 

[Proximon]

I would EXPECT things like random reboots and shutdowns with bad electrical connections, but I can't say for sure. Perhaps intermittent power to those drives would cause these issues.

What about the HDD? Did you try removing that too?

 

[Ph0enix33]

I did, and it gives the same result as having both connected. Is there anything else I could do to help narrow down the cause?

 

[Proximon]

Try disabling the marvel controller, if it's not in use. I've seen this clear up the slow POST issue in the past.

So these modular PSU ports - are they like a little loose or real loose? All of them or just some?

 

[Ph0enix33]

I have had the Marvell controller disable since assembling the machine. I didn't like the extra time it added to start up.
The ports are not loose from what I can feel, and it is only a couple of them were removed. If I could remember which ones they were, I would simply avoid using those ports, unless it damaged my PSU as a whole, but unfortunately I can't and none of them are noticeably looser than the others since I pushed them back in when the incident happened.

 

[Proximon]

While the POST is happening, what are the troubleshooting LEDs on the board doing?

Is there one that is taking a long time to clear?

 

[Ph0enix33]

The LED cycles through several codes, but hangs (for 3-5 seconds) on the following

(according to the manual)
60 - DXE Core is started
62 - Installation of the PCH Runtime Services

After these, it goes to code "AA" ("Reserved for ASL") and stays at AA for the duration of my session from what I can tell.

 

[Proximon]

I think those are fairly standard pause points and won't tell us much. Let me see if we can get some other eyes into the thread

 

[pjmelect]

I think that this could well be a memory related problem, you should download and run memtest86 4.0a for at least three passes to check your memory.

 

[jaquith]

That's a load of info to sift though...

First, and you know why, re-install your OS. Verify that you indeed have v3.3.2 firmware installed on your SSD. I would minimally reformat ALL drives and don't forget to disconnect all other drives before installing the OS (this time). Also, make sure you have the latest BIOS installed (3203); use ASUS EZ Flash 2 - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/289507-30-what-flash

If you're getting OC Failed then it could be RAM, run Memtest for 4-passes.

Optional but IMO use Parted Magic http://partedmagic.com/doku.php?id=downloads and Secure Erase (write 0's) System Tools/Erase Disk your SSD ; top part of this blog pertains - http://blog.ocztechnology.com/?p=367

Random shutdowns can be caused by a lot of things including a corrupted SSD, bad OC, RAM, MOBO. More often then not (where) you're freezing is generally a bad OC. The booting delay is more than likely caused by your SSD and it's firmware. I too mentioned bad OC, if you have bios invasive apps like AI Suite or any other similar application(s) don't use them and IMO never install them on your PC.

You did a lot of errors and tracing down the correct one is a guessing game. Clearly installing an OS while other drives are connected is a no-no. Once you re-install the OS then don't install anything but all of the (latest) drivers from ASUS's website (the DVD shipped with the MOBO is a nice coaster).

Recap:
1. Update SSD Firmware
2. Update MOBO's BIOS
a. Clear CMOS, but do it right unplug the PSU for 5~10 minute 1st, then press the Clr CMOS button (10 seconds), plug in power, boot to BIOS. Clear CMOS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdHH9KrceR0
b. Press (F5) and set AI Overclock Tuner -> XMP then Save & Exit = Yes
3. Boot with Memtest run 4-passes
4. Optional Secure Erase SSD, but delete any partitions and format no matter both the HDD and SSD
5. Re-install the OS (only SSD connected)
6. Once OS is completed install the Chipset, SATA and other drivers (latest versions)
7. Optional goto Intel's website for the very latest drivers (Run Intel Driver Update Utility) - http://downloadcenter.intel.com/default.aspx?lang=eng
8. Run 'Fix It' to verify two critical registries are correct - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976
9. Try booting, shutdown, sleep sequences several times
10. Do NOT install any Utilities or Applications for at least a day or two; run a 24+ burn-in use AIDA64 Extreme Edition with all options stressed - http://www.aida64.com/

NOW you can enjoy.

You can improve bootup times by changing the boot priorities or disabling splash screens if needed, but mine boots in <12 seconds so I leave it alone. Don't leave items in the DVD, the BIOS often (looks) if there's anything bootable and in turn delays normal startup. I do not recommend the vast majority of SSD 'tweaks' to Page files (other than 2GB if fine), Disabling hibernation, etc I like my hybrid sleep and find there's more Pros to leave it alone; I do recommend running WEI once so it knows to turn-off defraging your SSD.

Let me know.

 

[Raiddinn]

IMHO, MemTest86+ should always be run when people are sleeping. I have seen things go all to hell on the 8th pass in some people's computers so I generally like to suggest people do the whole 10 passes and the easiest way to do that is just while people don't need the computer for anything anyway.

Secondly, I didn't see it written above and if I missed it please forgive me, but it looked to me like only two RAM configurations were tried. One with all 4 sticks in and one with 2 sticks in. Were the other 2 sticks tried in the other 2 ports at some point? For completeness sake, it would not be a bad idea to switch these out if it wasn't already done.

I am not thrilled at all about the lack of a motherboard graphics port connected to the processor. It would be nice if the GTX 580 could be ruled out as a problem child, but without a graphics port on the motherboard a second card would have to be sourced from somewhere.

For that matter, it would be nice if you could access a second computer to use to switch out parts from. My gut feeling right away was motherboard, but things like PSU, RAM, Video card, and so on are all easy switch outs if you have another computer sitting around with similar specs. If it is a hardware problem you have, which very much seems to be the case, sometimes the only way to narrow down the cause is just to start replacing components.

Also, the part doesn't have to belong to the core for these symptoms. I have a CD drive upstairs in a box and if any of you tried it in your computer then your computer would take 15 minutes to boot into Windows. Even such a lowly device with a hardware fault can drag down the whole rest of the computer very easily.

I did see someone above suggested reinstalling Windows with only one disk drive attached (you can try different drives with this too for testing purposes), and this is a good idea which I will second. Once you get the new OS installed, you can disconnect unnecessary things like CD drives to try and rule them out as problem sources.

One way to proceed with the OS setup was explained above, but I don't find it to be the most stable or useful for testing purposes. If it is reinstalled and the problem at least temporarily goes away, I would suggest the first thing after hitting the desktop would be to go to Microsoft's website and download Microsoft Security Essentials and install that. Secondly just run windows update over and over again, restarting between, until all of the Windows patches are done. Then do nothing else and see if symptoms persist.

New updated drivers can cause instability and it is good to be able to rule them out as a problem source. If you update drivers immediately you lose the ability to rule them out this way.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about the Windows/software stuff at this point unless you have a lot of free time on your hands. It feels more to me like a hardware problem at this point and I would prioritize trying to get access to hardware you can switch out as the number one task. The RAM can be switched out with the removed sticks in the alternate slots NP, but beyond that you really just need to find somebody you can borrow things from.

- Edit - Typo

 

[Proximon]

You know, I knew you guys were going to suggest memtest I'm a bit skeptical but agree it needs to be done.

Here is the proper link:
http://www.memtest.org/

Burn to disk, run overnight.

 

[Raiddinn]

What can I say? I am all about trust.

I have to build a trust relationship between me and the PC which usually all starts with the physical. Are all the cables plugged in right?

Then move to the PSU. Is it from Seasonic? Did another one get tried?

Then move to the RAM, is it from a brand with low failure rates like Crucial or Kingston? Does it get through MemTest86+ ok?

It is just how I naturally approach this stuff.

Its like in construction, if your foundation isn't solid, if there is a flaw in it, you could be looking at a computer version of the Leaning Tower of Pisa. If you were in one of the rooms up at the top there you might find yourself wondering why everything that looks fine is somehow not fine. The problem would obviously be easier to figure out if you came out and started looking at the basic stuff.

 

[Ph0enix33]

Wow, thank you all for the responses. This will will take some time to do as I will be out of town tomorrow, but I will get all of these steps done and post with the results.
Thanks again!

 

[Ph0enix33]

Just took some time to re-read all of the posts. I respect all of your opinions much more than my own, as I am quite uneducated in this field by comparison. My concern comes from whether I can or should do any hardware tests first before moving on to the software side like reinstalling the OS etc. I am not trying to take shortcuts, and will do whatever you all suggest, but do not want to go through backing everything up and performing the reinstall, if I can do the hardware tests prior to all of that to rule out any hardware issues and save me the grief of reinstalling everything only to get the same results I am now.

@Jaquith - Is there anything I could do to completely rule out hardware problems before I take the step of formatting my drive and re doing my OS? Do these hardware checks need to be performed on a fresh install or is there any reason at all that I would need to re install windows before running them?

@Raidinn - Unfortunately I do not have access to any spare parts. I can, however, rule out the GPU being bad, or at least drop the probability that it is to very slim. I initially had 2 GTX 570s in the system, but was getting unsatisfactory results with SLI scaling in game, so I returned them for a 580. I had the exact same issues regarding boot times and the Windows logo with the 570s. While there is always the chance that I simply got 3 defective cards, I would say that it is very unlikely, so we can probably rule out the GPU as the issue and start looking at either a bad OS install, the PSU, MoBo, RAM or Proc/Proc OC.

Again, thank you all so very much for your input. I very much appreciate you helping me work through this. Please keep the suggestions coming, even posters that have not posted yet!

 

[pjmelect]

You should run a memory test program such as memtest86 4.0a for at least three passes and preferably overnight. I always run a memory test program on a new build or on a system where the memory or motherboard has been changed.
Every computer I get for repair I also run the memory test program and it is surprising the number that fails. Sorting out any memory problems makes a happier customer.

 

[Raiddinn]

I have heard of RAM failing Memtest86 when it passes on MemTest86+. If you fail on one you might want to try the other to double check.

I usually stick with + because I think it has fewer bugs, but that is just me. That being said, I have seen bugs with the + version too.

It is very hard to test your hardware if you don't have access to any other compatible hardware. The easiest way to test to see whether a certain hardware device is problematic is just to borrow something from a working computer for a few minutes and shove it in yours. If it starts working, whatever you took out was probably the thing that was bad.

With no hardware to switch out, you may want to focus on what you can do like the software stuff, as painful as it is.

The MemTest86+ program (my favorite version) will test RAM well, but most other hardware is difficult to test.

One thing you can do is to disconnect any device that you don't absolutely have to have connected for it to be operational. If you have a CD drive, that can be disconnected. If you have multiple hard drives, all but one can go. You can drop back to 1 RAM stick.

Those things probably aren't your problems, but they are at least easy to test.

If you are OCd, I would suggest taking the battery out for 30 min to clear the BIOS and let the computer rebuild its configuration from scratch. That would get rid of any OCs and any other BIOS tweaks you may have made if there are any. Such things can increase instability and mask problems you are having. It is best to troubleshoot with default configurations when you can.

 

[jaquith]

Just took some time to re-read all of the posts. I respect all of your opinions much more than my own, as I am quite uneducated in this field by comparison. My concern comes from whether I can or should do any hardware tests first before moving on to the software side like reinstalling the OS etc. I am not trying to take shortcuts, and will do whatever you all suggest, but do not want to go through backing everything up and performing the reinstall, if I can do the hardware tests prior to all of that to rule out any hardware issues and save me the grief of reinstalling everything only to get the same results I am now.

@Jaquith - Is there anything I could do to completely rule out hardware problems before I take the step of formatting my drive and re doing my OS? Do these hardware checks need to be performed on a fresh install or is there any reason at all that I would need to re install windows before running them?

The way you installed is just one more variable to contend with to sort out your problems. My attitude towards repairing Windows vs starting from scratch is all about 'time.' Screwing around with a 'touchy' OS IMO makes little sense; in most cases I have my OS and Apps on an SSD // Data on a RAID HDD therefore it's little more than little time to re-install/format (Secure Erase) and SSD. Further, folks get 'antsy' and install all of the Apps and Data way too soon without thoroughly testing their components first.

Testing what I really recommend (testing / burn-in) - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/308363-30-asrock-mobo-sata-drivers-floppy-joke#t2072771

I 'get' that folks want their new toy yesterday, but I also 'get' what a PITA it is to have an RMA and worst and RMA after the 'Cross Ship' periods expire or are not possible.

 

[Ph0enix33]

Unfortunately, my 30 day period has expired, as I was working through other issues throughout it, and obviously still am. Hopefully this will be a software/settings issue rather than a physical hardware problem that needs to be returned.

I cleared my CMOS and ran Memtest, with all 4 sticks installed, overnight. It is still running, but has completed 6 passes without error. Since it seems very unlikely it will fail at this point, I suppose it is time to start looking elsewhere as to what is causing this issue. Once I finish with Memtest, I will run AIDA64, before having to resort to formatting my drive and reinstalling windows.