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Powerful Server?

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July 2, 2012 6:18:32 PM

My question is

I want to put the following together

1 case = http://3btech.net/norpsost4ura1.html

16 hardrives 3TB each = http://www.goharddrive.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCo...

1 (16) port sata III controller card ( raid ) = http://partsarcade.com/lsi-logic-lsi00244-9201-16i-6gbp...

1 motherboard = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

1 set of ram equaling 64 GB = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

2 cpu s = http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007H29ECE/ref=asc_df_B007H29E...

1 Linux 64 bit ubuntu or fedora operating system.

Will all of this work together and if I make a logical volume the size of 48 TB ,which is all the space I will have together with all the drives combined will the operating system see the whole 48 TB and will it boot.

More about : powerful server

July 2, 2012 6:57:17 PM

You provided the wrong link for the RAID controller.

Are you 100% sure that memory kit will work? Server motherboards usually require registered memory modules and an 8GB module costs close to $150.
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July 2, 2012 7:15:04 PM

Thanks for telling me about the wrong link. I fixed it. As far as registered memory. I have no idea what that is. I thought that all DDR3 Ram was the same.
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July 2, 2012 7:19:38 PM

GhislainG said:
You provided the wrong link for the RAID controller.

Are you 100% sure that memory kit will work? Server motherboards usually require registered memory modules and an 8GB module costs close to $150.


Excluding SODIMM, there's only one physical specification for DDR3. All modules use the same formfactor and bus drops regardless of the platform or number of ranks per DIMM. The only restriction is that you cannot mix registered and unregistered modules and you cannot mix ECC and non-ecc modules. Naturally, only the server platforms support ECC.

Theoretically there does exist an FBDIMM implementation of DDR3 like there was for DDR2 but no manufactures have implemented it.
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July 2, 2012 7:24:48 PM

Can I use unregistered memory If I want to, and what are the repercussions.
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July 2, 2012 7:30:09 PM

Does that board support booting from PCI? What in the heck are you doing that you think you need this?
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July 2, 2012 7:32:09 PM

mishav1 said:
Can I use unregistered memory If I want to, and what are the repercussions.


Since all modules on a channel share a common IO bus, each additional module increases the electrical load which in turn degrades the electrical signal. Registered memory adds a high impedance register between the DIMM and the memory controller which reduces the load on the signal but adds latency by virtue of adding an additional pipeline stage. Registered memory is primarily used in systems with more than 2 DIMMs per memory channel and is often accompanied by ECC. Since the Xeon E5 processors have 4 channels per processor and that motherboard probably has one DIMM per channel per processor (check the spec sheet to see how its fanned out) you do not need to use registered memory.
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July 2, 2012 7:34:39 PM

Hi :) 

You WILL need ECC memory....check that motherboards specs.....

And what PSU are you going to use ???

All the best Brett :) 
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July 2, 2012 7:38:02 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

You WILL need ECC memory....check that motherboards specs.....

All the best Brett :) 


ECC is not necessary, merely supported.
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July 2, 2012 7:40:12 PM

Pinhedd said:
ECC is not necessary, merely supported.


Hi :) 

Thats NOT what that mobo page says....

All the best Brett :) 
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July 2, 2012 7:48:33 PM

No you wont have 48tb total. 3tb is how the manufacturer rates the drives size but in computer speak its only really about 2.7TB usable so about 43.5tb total and thats only if you use it in JBOD mode. If you attempt to raid you loose additional space due to parity. The amount you loose depends on the raid type you use.

Also; and please read this part; those intellipower drives you have selected scream Western Digital Green drives to me and you should not raid those drives in any critical data application. They are not designed for nor support raid and many users have lost all their data when the raid failed and they foundthemselves without a current backup. So please please please throw in some kind of tape backup system for your data as well as select drives designed for raid use. Raid is not a backup; it is not failsafe.
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July 2, 2012 7:50:59 PM

Hi :) 

Notice the max difference between Udimm`s AND Ecc ??? 64 gb vs 256 gb....

Running that setup on Udimms instead of Ecc is a bit like driving a car at 200 mph WITHOUT aerodynamics....

We build servers and would ALWAYS use ECC....

It might run without ...but how well and for how long...

All the best Brett :) 
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July 2, 2012 7:56:52 PM

Hi All :) 

To be honest, until the OP comes back and says whats hes intending to use this server for, this is all a little pointless....

All the best Brett :) 
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July 2, 2012 7:59:24 PM

As for ecc or non-ecc , using non ecc ram means the occasion reboot , sometimes unscheduled reboots due to crashes/lockups caused by bit errors that ecc ram would have caught & corrected. Thats why its used in servers.
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July 2, 2012 8:22:22 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

Notice the max difference between Udimm`s AND Ecc ??? 64 gb vs 256 gb....

Running that setup on Udimms instead of Ecc is a bit like driving a car at 200 mph WITHOUT aerodynamics....

We build servers and would ALWAYS use ECC....

It might run without ...but how well and for how long...

All the best Brett :) 


Don't confuse UDIMM and ECC. There are UDIMMs with ECC and RDIMMs without ECC. They are just incredibly uncommon because they often go hand in hand. The maximum module capacity of a DDR3 UDIMM is 8GB per module and only supports at most 2 ranks. Thus, 8GB per module * 1 module per channel * 4 channels per processor * 2 processors = 64GB for DDR3 UDIMMs.

RDIMMs theoretically support up to 8 ranks per module but the most common implementations are 2 and 4. Each rank typically has 4 or 8GB which allows for 16GB per module, or less commonly 32GB per module using a quad rank setup. The electrical load of these modules means that they have to be buffered otherwise they can make the whole system unstable. So, 8 of the highest density 32GB modules provides a total of 256GB of memory using RDIMMs. However, these setups are extremely expensive.
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July 2, 2012 10:54:06 PM

GhislainG said:
That's correct, but memory size is then limited to 64GB. I wouldn't run 64GB of non-ECC memory on a server unless I had a chance to test it for several weeks to ensure stability.

Is there a limit as far as non ecc memory is concerned that can be put in a system?
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July 2, 2012 10:55:44 PM

mishav1 said:
Is there a limit as far as non ecc memory is concerned that can be put in a system?


64GB is the unregistered limit as per my post above. Registered will allow up to 256GB but will cost you an arm, a leg, and half of your left testicle. 64GB of registered SDRAM with ECC will cost a little bit more than unregistered memory of the same density (meaning that 64GB of ECC registered SDRAM is a little bit more expensive than 64GB of non-ECC non-registered SDRAM) but the higher densities are very expensive.
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July 2, 2012 10:55:51 PM

Also can I use green drives if my configuration is JBOD. Will that have any negative effects? Because Im not striving for any sort of backup or raiding. At least now.
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July 2, 2012 11:01:23 PM

mishav1 said:
Also can I use green drives if my configuration is JBOD. Will that have any negative effects? Because Im not striving for any sort of backup or raiding. At least now.


Never use green drives in any sort of array, ever. Low RPM drives are fine but any drive that has any sort of "intellisense", power saving, or dynamic spindle speed control (outside of the drive's nominal control) should never be used in any sort of conjoined volume.

The reason they shouldn't be used is because the power conservation and speed control can confuse the drive's controller which can result in timeouts and other nasty effects.
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July 2, 2012 11:18:35 PM

Are non green drives more expensive?
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July 2, 2012 11:22:10 PM

mishav1 said:
Are non green drives more expensive?


Yes they are
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July 2, 2012 11:28:53 PM

Pinhedd said:
64GB is the unregistered limit as per my post above. Registered will allow up to 256GB but will cost you an arm, a leg, and half of your left testicle. 64GB of registered SDRAM with ECC will cost a little bit more than unregistered memory of the same density (meaning that 64GB of ECC registered SDRAM is a little bit more expensive than 64GB of non-ECC non-registered SDRAM) but the higher densities are very expensive.


If you dont mind me beating a dead horse. Why is 64 GB unregistered the limit? Why does it become unstable after that size?
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July 2, 2012 11:32:08 PM

Also to clarify things for myself, since Im new to this



Does ECC , Registered , Buffered memory all mean the same?

Does non-ecc, unregistered, and unbuffered memory mean the same?

Basically

ECC = Registered, = buffered

Non ecc = unregistered = unbuffered
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July 2, 2012 11:55:24 PM

mishav1 said:
Also to clarify things for myself, since Im new to this



Does ECC , Registered , Buffered memory all mean the same?

Does non-ecc, unregistered, and unbuffered memory mean the same?

Basically

ECC = Registered, = buffered

Non ecc = unregistered = unbuffered


Buffered and registered mean more or less the same thing. They are slightly different but they serve the same purpose. The purpose of buffering and registering memory is to reduce the electrical impact of adding another module or rank to a BUS. Since all memory ranks on each DIMM and each DIMM on each channel all share the same BUS adding another module to the channel also adds the modules impedence to the channel. Adding any resistive electrical load in parallel decreases impedence which reduces power transfer and degrades signal quality. Thus, only so many unbuffered ranks can exist per channel before the signal quality degrades to the point where problems occur.

Registered memory tackles this problem by placing a high-impedance register between the IO bus and the memory module. The register offers a much higher impedance and subsequently much better signal quality but delays the signal by one clock clock cycle.

Fully Buffered memory takes this one step further and completely removes the shared IO bus from the equation. Each memory module has its own independently powered buffer and is connected to the memory controller by a high speed differential serial bus. This serial bus is a lot like a very fast 1x PCIe lane. Since each module is buffered and powered individually the effects of adding additional modules are negligible. So called FBDIMMs were very common in DDR2 based servers, but have not been employed in any DDR3 platforms. They fell out of favor because FBDIMMs are not electrically compatible with standard RDIMM/UDIMM platforms (registered/unregistered DIMM).

ECC is all together something different. ECC allows for memory errors to be detected and corrected (hence Error Correcting Code). ECC adds 1 or 2 chips to each memory rank and allows for a single bit error to be detected and passively corrected. Multibit errors can be detected but not corrected. ECC also adds a bit of latency. ECC is often implemented along side registered and/or buffered memory because they serve the same purpose but they are not mutually inclusive. It is possible to have registered memory that does not have ECC, and it is possible to implement ECC on unregistered memory.

ECC and registered memory are both necessary on scalable systems which are used to run lengthy simulations or other long duration workloads.
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July 3, 2012 12:03:13 AM

Currently "registered = buffered" and nothing to do with ECC or Non-ECC.
registered/buffered memory acutally has a register in between the actual ram and the controller. This register reduced the electrical load on the controller so more ram modules can be run. The register slows down the memory though since it buffers the memory for at least 1 full cycle.

ECC is Error Correcting Code memory actually contains extra bits to detect and correct errors. a very simplified example would be suppose you stored 1111 to the memory and then read it back into cpu the next day but you pulled in 1110 instead. ECC memory would store 11114 (4 being the sum of the previous 4 bits) and when you read in back in the sum would be 3 and not 4 so ECC would either correct the bit or reread the data back in (depending on programming) or both.
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July 3, 2012 12:14:33 AM

Hi :) 

I STILL want to know what this so called server is for ?????

There is only 1 reason I can think of , as its someone who has very little knowledge of servers , and also seems to be avoiding telling us....

I am not sure we should be helping at all until he answers.... :) 

All the best Brett :) 
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July 3, 2012 12:22:42 AM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

I STILL want to know what this so called server is for ?????

There is only 1 reason I can think of , as its someone who has very little knowledge of servers , and also seems to be avoiding telling us....

I am not sure we should be helping at all until he answers.... :) 

All the best Brett :) 


48TB of ultra high-def porn
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July 3, 2012 12:23:31 AM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

I STILL want to know what this so called server is for ?????

There is only 1 reason I can think of , as its someone who has very little knowledge of servers , and also seems to be avoiding telling us....

I am not sure we should be helping at all until he answers.... :) 

All the best Brett :) 


It is for seo purposes and must contain many websites. Each being at least 500,000 pages and there being about 1000 websites.
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July 3, 2012 12:26:12 AM

so Why is 64 GB unregistered memory the limit?
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July 3, 2012 12:27:49 AM

mishav1 said:
so Why is 64 GB unregistered memory the limit?


DDR3 only allows for 8GB per unregistered module. Either in 1 8GB rank or 2 4GB ranks. Since that board has 8 slots (1 per channel per processor), the maximum you can install is 8*8 = 64
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July 3, 2012 12:59:07 AM

Does a higher watt power supply use more amps. or it doesnt matter and the amps are used as needed. The reason I ask is the co location center charges for amps.

Also is there a limit on how much watts I should be using in a server or is it the more the merrier, in case more watts are required at a certain point in time.
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July 3, 2012 3:14:12 AM

mishav1 said:
Does a higher watt power supply use more amps. or it doesnt matter and the amps are used as needed. The reason I ask is the co location center charges for amps.

Also is there a limit on how much watts I should be using in a server or is it the more the merrier, in case more watts are required at a certain point in time.


You definitely won't need 2000 watts. Those are for running blade servers and many datacenters don't provide triple phase publicly. The actual PSU that you you want will depend on the case that you're getting because that one is for a power enclosure, not a server itself. The most you'll need is ~1350 watts to be safe.
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July 7, 2012 9:45:35 PM

I have learned in the last week that servers

Should use:

1 Black caviar hard drives as oppose to green drives

2. ECC registered memory as oppose to non ECC unregistered

Is there anything else someone can recommend that stands out to be used in a server, or necessary in a server.

Is there a power supply any can recommend for a norco 3u case.

Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
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