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3570k or 3770k

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July 5, 2012 3:05:37 AM

Hello tomshardware forum!

I know that this exact type of thread has come up multiple times, but I want to know for myself.

So basically, I have a 2600k in a P8P67 Deluxe Motherboard. Now, I am building a family member a computer for business (accessing servers and having insane amounts of yahoo windows open), and I know my 2600k would save them time and money if I gave it to them. Also, I wanted to upgrade to Ivy Bridge anyways. I also plan to purchase new Corsair Vengeance RAM and a Maximus V Formula Z77 Motherboard when it is released (on that note, Asus is a bit late with the board... Curse them!!). I currently have a GTX 670 FTW and plan to get a second for watercooling and Nvidia Surround.

I play many games such as Crysis 2, Max Payne 3, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, and Dirt 3. I wish to eliminate any chances of a bottleneck (considering I will have 2 watercooled and overclocked GTX 670s powering a 5760x1080 resolution).

The catch is, I don't want to have a purchase a 3770k if I don't have to. I know I probably don't need it, but aside from that, I just don't want to be all the way down the road, have a bunch of Hyperthread using games come out, and have that, "Oh, I should of bought a 3770k" moment. All in all, I'm just wondering if I need the 8 threads and if a 3570k will hold out for a good amount of time to pay back the $230 I would have spent on it.

Whoever is kind enough to answer, I'm sorry for typing out so much, but I just wish to know your opinion! Thank you in advance!

More about : 3570k 3770k

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a c 78 à CPUs
July 5, 2012 3:09:09 AM

Hyperthreading is probably never going to be used for games, and if it is, it will be long after the 3770K had its fun.

Game makers still have to worry about properly utilizing all 4 cores of a quad before we start talking about hyperthreads. And to do that, they have to start making games in more modern programming languages. Don't hold your breath.
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a c 283 à CPUs
July 5, 2012 3:10:28 AM

HT doesn't really help much in gaming (just look at the many gaming benches that have a 2500K/3570K dead even with a 2600K/3770K). The 3570K will be plenty for years to come in gaming, especially if you OC it (even though you won't even NEED to for a while).
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July 5, 2012 3:13:09 AM

Agreed. HT is fine if you can afford it but if youre watching the bottom line then there is no reason to spend $100 more for something that only a few applications can take advantage of. A 3570K is a SCREAMING fast processor and will shred any workload or application you throw at it.
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July 5, 2012 3:14:00 AM

nekulturny said:
Hyperthreading is probably never going to be used for games, and if it is, it will be long after the 3770K had its fun.

Game makers still have to worry about properly utilizing all 4 cores of a quad before we start talking about hyperthreads. And to do that, they have to start making games in more modern programming languages. Don't hold your breath.

Thanks for answering! One question though. I have heard of people saying that Battlefield 3 utilizes hyperthreading. Is this true enough to justify getting the i7? I personally would be skeptical but I want to clarify.

Also, if games do not use hyperthreading, what really does? Would hyperthreading help at all running a small Java-based Minecraft server with 10 people on it and watching videos on the internet? On intel's website it says hyperthreading allows for greater multitasking. I am skeptical of this too, but I want to be satisfied that I did my homework!

Thanks for your reply!
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a c 283 à CPUs
July 5, 2012 3:17:36 AM

MoltenCore7 said:
Thanks for answering! One question though. I have heard of people saying that Battlefield 3 utilizes hyperthreading. Is this true enough to justify getting the i7? I personally would be skeptical but I want to clarify.

Also, if games do not use hyperthreading, what really does? Would hyperthreading help at all running a small Java-based Minecraft server with 10 people on it and watching videos on the internet? On intel's website it says hyperthreading allows for greater multitasking. I am skeptical of this too, but I want to be satisfied that I did my homework!

Thanks for your reply!


BF3 likes more actual cores more than the virtual threads that HT provides. HT would mainly help with 3D rendering and video editing. A Minecraft server might see some benefit from it (I honestly DON'T think so), but not enough to justify the cost, IMO.
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a c 78 à CPUs
July 5, 2012 3:48:20 AM

DJDeCiBeL said:
BF3 likes more actual cores more than the virtual threads that HT provides. HT would mainly help with 3D rendering and video editing. A Minecraft server might see some benefit from it (I honestly DON'T think so), but not enough to justify the cost, IMO.

That would be my answer as well. I know BF3 in the beginning took performance hits because of HyperThreading, it had to be patched, but that doesn't necessarily mean that now that its patched it would actually help performance, just make problems go away.

Programming is not something I have strong knowledge in, actually, little to none. But from what I gather, games are still coded with the same programming languages used 15 years ago, and still must be coded specifically to divide the workloads into which core will do what thing. When you bring HyperThreading into play, I think you get into an issue of the game code not even knowing what a HyperThread is. If that makes any sense, or if its just the blabbering of a 1st year tech student. :lol: 
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July 5, 2012 4:08:23 AM

nekulturny said:
That would be my answer as well. I know BF3 in the beginning took performance hits because of HyperThreading, it had to be patched, but that doesn't necessarily mean that now that its patched it would actually help performance, just make problems go away.

Programming is not something I have strong knowledge in, actually, little to none. But from what I gather, games are still coded with the same programming languages used 15 years ago, and still must be coded specifically to divide the workloads into which core will do what thing. When you bring HyperThreading into play, I think you get into an issue of the game code not even knowing what a HyperThread is. If that makes any sense, or if its just the blabbering of a 1st year tech student. :lol: 


Most games don't have any issues with HyperThreading (HT) because of the way that Windows 7 (and I think Vista, I'd have to check) are optimized for Intel processors that have HT enabled. As for a performance advantage in games through HT, there really isn't any because of the way that HT works because it's just more efficiently allocating different workload threads to the same physical processor core. In games this rarely gives you a discernible performance advantage; what does give a discernible performance increase is clock speed and cache, this is especially so for Sandy/Ivy Bridge processors.

As for upgrading to 3770K? It's really unnecessary. A 3570K will give you near identical performance for less money. But if you're really worried about HyperThreading and maybe cache size you could always just buy an Ivy Bridge 1155 E3-1245 Xeon that has 8MB of cache and the same base and turbo clock speeds as the 3570K for $55 more :na: 
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July 5, 2012 7:33:44 AM

Quote:
Xeon is locked tho


I was kinda joking about the Xeon, I know it's locked because of the processor's ring bus. Definitely unnecessary for gaming but still a cool chip, though.

EDIT: It can, however, be pseudo-overclocked to 3.8GHz by manipulating the turbo values across all cores.
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July 5, 2012 8:24:41 AM

I've always wondered....which programs *would* benefit from hyper-threading?
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July 5, 2012 8:42:29 AM

bemused_fred said:
I've always wondered....which programs *would* benefit from hyper-threading?



The applications that sees the highest benefit are probably intels benchmarking programs. :D 
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July 5, 2012 9:00:56 AM

What if you were to do many things at once? Like Hosting the server, playing the game(anything from minecraft to garrys mod), recording, voice chatting with team mate on skype while listening to music?
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July 5, 2012 9:07:47 AM

bemused_fred said:
I've always wondered....which programs *would* benefit from hyper-threading?

Any highly threaded workload. So for example video encoding would benefit from hyper threading a bit but the real boon for hyper threading is its use in the server space where one core can be allocated more efficiently by virtualizing two cores into one and allowing the processor queue to literally double for each physical core. So in reality the main function of hyper-threading is to decrease the number of dependent instructions on the CPU's pipeline.
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July 16, 2012 2:47:05 PM

Best answer selected by MoltenCore7.
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a c 116 à CPUs
July 16, 2012 3:10:15 PM

bemused_fred said:
I've always wondered....which programs *would* benefit from hyper-threading?

Heavily and easily parallelizable processing such as applying filters to audio/video, doing FFTs, physics simulations, etc.

The cost of extracting enough instruction-level parallelism (ILP) out of a single thread to keep all execution units busy is too high so Intel chose to do simultaneous multi-threading (SMT... or HT in intelSpeak) to leverage thread-level paralellism (TLP) instead.

Because threads on SMT CPU cores share execution units and CPUs can extract about 70% resource utilization out of a single thread, enabling SMT/HT on heavily and efficiently threaded code gives the software a chance to tap into the remaining 30% of under-used execution resources, albeit at the expense of lower individual thread execution speed since now you have two threads using 45-55% of execution each instead of a single thread using 60-90% of resources.

Because most games lump their critical logic in a single thread, i7 with HT enabled tends to fare slightly worse than an equivalent i5 or the same i7 with HT disabled.
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