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7970 or 580 ? What do you reccommand for this rig (see rig spec)

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January 16, 2012 2:24:38 AM

What GPU should I buy to use with the rig below ? (I hesitate between the Nvidia's 580 and ATI's 7970)
I'm not especially looking into a future-proof GPU, just the best bang/buck current card for current games.

N.B: will play single screen only (no multi for me), and won't use 3D neither.


CPU: i7 2700K
Memory: 16 GB DDR3 1600 MHz (2x8GB)
HD: 150Gb SDD
PSU: some good branded 1000 or 1200W
OS: Win7 64bit
Mobo: P8Z68-V/GEN3
GPU: ? ? ? ? ? ?


I was just about to get the 7970 until I come here and see tons of ppl complaining of screen tears, flickering and bugs....
Is the 7970 to be avoid ?
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:45:40 AM

has this rig already been bought?
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a c 192 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:47:18 AM

For a single screen, a HD6970 or GTX570 should be sufficient. Read HardOCP's review of the HD7970; "overkill" was the most memorable word in it for me.
You'll only need a 650W-750W PSU for your rig. If it is for gaming and you'd like to cut the cost down further, get an i5-2500K instead of the i7.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:56:59 AM

Onus said:
For a single screen, a HD6970 or GTX570 should be sufficient. Read HardOCP's review of the HD7970; "overkill" was the most memorable word in it for me.
You'll only need a 650W-750W PSU for your rig. If it is for gaming and you'd like to cut the cost down further, get an i5-2500K instead of the i7.


how much overkill is it? you shouldnt neccisarrily buy what meets your needs now but what will meet your needs in three years. a 7970 is the best card for a decent price at this moment and will be ok with games in 2-3 years unlike a 6970.

id buy the 7970 dont invest in old tech when new tech is out.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 3:01:35 AM

Onus said:
For a single screen, a HD6970 or GTX570 should be sufficient. Read HardOCP's review of the HD7970; "overkill" was the most memorable word in it for me.
You'll only need a 650W-750W PSU for your rig. If it is for gaming and you'd like to cut the cost down further, get an i5-2500K instead of the i7.

+1 to the 2500k.
I would get the 7970 though. It will be overkill for now.on a single monitor but last longer than the 6xxx series
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January 16, 2012 3:33:08 AM

Onus said:
For a single screen, a HD6970 or GTX570 should be sufficient. Read HardOCP's review of the HD7970; "overkill" was the most memorable word in it for me.
You'll only need a 650W-750W PSU for your rig. If it is for gaming and you'd like to cut the cost down further, get an i5-2500K instead of the i7.


650W-750W PSU would be enough for a 2-7970 crossfire ?
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a c 171 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 3:41:51 AM

A 750W should be. 250W TDP * 2 = 500W for GPUs. Add another 100W for most quad core CPUs and another 50W for board and other stuff and you need 650W for a CF 7970. The high quality 750W units should be able to do that.

I agree that for a single 1080 screen the 7970 is a bad choice. (maybe not bad, but not the most cost effective choice.) A GTX570 or 6970 is a better idea. Even a GTX560TI or 6950 would work. You don't need the best cards out there to do 1080.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 4:30:37 AM

^its a bad choice for todays games maybe but what about in two years?
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a c 171 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 6:17:22 AM

Most likely nothing. Most games are still designed with consoles in mind. New consoles aren't likely to arrive until late this year, but more likely next year. New high performance games are likely to remain few until at least two years from now, perhaps even longer depending on how long it takes companies to code them/new consoles get released.

I would get a 6950/6970/GTX570 now and not worry about two years from now. When new games come out that actually need that kind of power you can take a look and see whats out. Too buy a 7970 now and hope games grow into it doesn't seem like a smart idea. Not at the price it sells for.
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January 16, 2012 10:15:20 AM

If you have the cash, 7970, if your uptight then get the 6970/570. It's literally your call.

I currently own a MSI 7970 OC at 1100/1575 stock voltage lol its awesome despite its high price. I work like most of us so i dont really care about spending a little bit more for something thats going to last me 2+ years.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 10:37:13 AM

7970, running mine at 1125 / 1575 on stock voltages, zero issues, highly recommended.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 10:38:21 AM

4745454b said:
A 750W should be. 250W TDP * 2 = 500W for GPUs. Add another 100W for most quad core CPUs and another 50W for board and other stuff and you need 650W for a CF 7970. The high quality 750W units should be able to do that.

I agree that for a single 1080 screen the 7970 is a bad choice. (maybe not bad, but not the most cost effective choice.) A GTX570 or 6970 is a better idea. Even a GTX560TI or 6950 would work. You don't need the best cards out there to do 1080.


can you explain this '50w for board and other stuff'
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 11:20:25 AM

^^+1
"I'm not especially looking into a future-proof GPU, just the best bang/buck current card for current games. " for this purpose a 560ti is enough
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a c 192 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 1:55:51 PM

Thanks for the support. Yeah, the HardOCP review may have some members here needing a bib, but I think it really only makes sense for a multi-monitor setup.
I wouldn't use a 650W PSU to Crossfire a pair of them, but I thought only a single card was needed.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:13:53 PM

550W PSU is recommended for 1 7970, 1000W would be enough for two for sure.

With regards one 7970 being overkill for a single monitor I don't really agree, if you want to run games with all the bells and whistles a single 7970 just about suffices for todays games (metro 2033 / battlefield 3 / crysis 2).

So it really depends what kind of visual quality you want, of course you can turn off certain features if you're ok with that, but me, I like em pretty :) .
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a c 143 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:29:09 PM

I'm disappointed to hear such words "Overkill" and "Bad Choice" with the fact that the GPU is just a little faster than GTX 580, with some great overclocking potentiality.Not that twice the performance.

And if any Overclocking is planned for the GPUs & CPU a quality branded 750W is the solution.
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a c 143 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:31:33 PM

joedjnpc said:
a single 7970 just about suffices for todays games (metro 2033 / battlefield 3 / crysis 2).

True. Still the upcoming Far Cry 3, Metro Last Night &........
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a c 225 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 2:47:28 PM

The "top-of-the-line" card will never be the "best bang for the buck". This might help

Guru3D uses the following games in their test suite, COD-MW, Bad Company 2, Dirt 2, Far Cry 2, Metro 2033, Dawn of Discovery, Crysis Warhead. Total fps (summing fps in each game @ 1920 x 1200) for the various options in parenthesis (single card / SL or CF) are tabulated below along with their cost in dollars per frame single card - CF or SLI:

$ 155.00 460-768 MB (314/592) $ 0.49 - $ 0.52
$ 155.00 6850 (371/634) $ 0.42 - $ 0.49
$ 170.00 6870 (434/701) $ 0.39 - $ 0.49
$ 220.00 6950 (479/751) $ 0.46 - $ 0.59
$ 240.00 6950 Frozr OC (484/759) $ 0.50 - $ 0.63
$ 205.00 560 Ti (455/792) $ 0.45 - $ 0.52
$ 320.00 6970 (526/825) $ 0.61 - $ 0.78
$ 215.00 560 Ti - 900 Mhz (495/862) $ 0.43 - $ 0.50
$ 340.00 570 (524/873) $ 0.65 - $ 0.78
$ 500.00 580 (616/953) $ 0.81 - $ 1.05
$ 725.00 6990 (762/903) $ 0.95 - $ 1.61
$ 750.00 590 (881/982) $ 0.85 - $ 1.53


At 39 cents per frame as a single card, and 49 cents in CF, the 6870 wins the best bang for the buck title in the <$200 category. "Outta the box", the factory OC'd 560 Ti's easily get the nod in the > $200 category....It's perty close in the single card configuration with the 6950 running a almost statistically insignificant close second, but in SLI the 560 Ti's score a100+ fps win and the cost per frame is way below the competition.
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Best solution

January 16, 2012 2:59:05 PM

truegenius said:
can you explain this '50w for board and other stuff'


If you're choosing a power supply, you need to know how much POWER your components use. This is what he's explaining to you :) 

Choosing a 1000w or 1200w power supply, yet having no clue about power draw of your components means that you're just guessing.

He's explaining that high-end video cards average around 250W TDP (Thermal Design Power). This just means that while they won't always use 250W, they could if stressed.

CPU's won't use over 100W. He threw in 50W for most motherboards.

The power draw of an SSD is trivial.

Basically, because you didn't mention SLI or Crossfire in your opening topic, 500 to 650W was suggested:

CPU: 100
MB: 50W
GPU: 250W

Thats a total draw of ~400W

If you're using SLI\Crossfire, just add another GPU:

CPU: 100
MB: 50W
GPU1: 250W
GPU2: 250W

That puts you at 650W total.

If you purchase a 750W PSU, that should be sufficient, assuming it has high efficiency.

I'm not quite sure why you mentioned crossfire and SLI though. That changes the entire GPU conversation if you're talking best bang for your buck.

If you don't plan on SLI or Crossfire now, but want the option for it later, then that contradicts your "doesn't need to be future-proof" statement :p 
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a c 192 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 3:03:18 PM

Exactly, JackN. The OP said "I'm not especially looking into a future-proof GPU, just the best bang/buck current card for current games," and you nailed it.

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a c 171 U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 6:27:41 PM

The chips on the motherboard will use some 12V power. As will the ram, drives, and just about everything else plugged into the machine. For example a case fan will run on 12V power, but will draw around 1A max. This means it will use 1.2W. By "guessing" 50W it allows you to provide wattage/power for all the various things that might be in there.
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a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2012 10:28:21 PM

4745454b said:
The chips on the motherboard will use some 12V power. As will the ram, drives, and just about everything else plugged into the machine. For example a case fan will run on 12V power, but will draw around 1A max. This means it will use 1.2W. By "guessing" 50W it allows you to provide wattage/power for all the various things that might be in there.


power = volts * amps so its 12 watts not 1.2.

so a 12v rail at 20 amps puts out 240 watts of power and remember.

also its important to remember(not you 4745454) that if on a series of connectors you use 100 out of 240 watts you only have 140 watts left. that is important on molex series of plugs.
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January 17, 2012 12:29:50 AM

Best answer selected by tomshwmarcc.
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January 17, 2012 12:37:16 AM

cbrunnem said:
power = volts * amps so its 12 watts not 1.2.

so a 12v rail at 20 amps puts out 240 watts of power and remember.

also its important to remember(not you 4745454) that if on a series of connectors you use 100 out of 240 watts you only have 140 watts left. that is important on molex series of plugs.



Your system looks nice. Do you reccomand the 2600K over the 2700K ?


Quote:

A 750W should be. 250W TDP * 2 = 500W for GPUs. Add another 100W for most quad core CPUs and another 50W for board and other stuff and you need 650W for a CF 7970. The high quality 750W units should be able to do that.

I agree that for a single 1080 screen the 7970 is a bad choice. (maybe not bad, but not the most cost effective choice.) A GTX570 or 6970 is a better idea. Even a GTX560TI or 6950 would work. You don't need the best cards out there to do 1080.


It's all about FPS...
when you say "even a GTX560 or 6950 would work, do you mean that It would offer as much FPS as a 7970 for the current games ?
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January 17, 2012 1:29:52 AM

Well all that GPU talking leads me to the next stage.... The PhysX dedicated gpu... Does it worth it ? Can it be any type of card ? AMD/Intel , what card you would reccommend to go with my single or crossfire 7970 ?
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a c 192 U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 1:49:41 AM

PhysX requires a nVidia card, and if you have ANY AMD card in your system, it won't run unless you play driver games so they'll coexist.
I think the minimum to make a difference is a GT240; something with at least 96 CUDA cores, but you'd probably want something a little more powerful to keep up with the rest of your system. Grab a 768MB GTX460 if you still can, and don't forget the extra power requirements.
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January 17, 2012 2:11:13 AM

Onus said:
PhysX requires a nVidia card, and if you have ANY AMD card in your system, it won't run unless you play driver games so they'll coexist.
I think the minimum to make a difference is a GT240; something with at least 96 CUDA cores, but you'd probably want something a little more powerful to keep up with the rest of your system. Grab a 768MB GTX460 if you still can, and don't forget the extra power requirements.



THanks,
here's a quote of answer I've got from another forum (just to share with you)

Quote:
I don't think it's worth it considering very few games use it. That said, if you really want it then nVidia is your only bet and IIRC the 9800GT is considered the best bang/buck card for it.

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a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 2:20:39 AM

tomshwmarcc said:
Your system looks nice. Do you reccomand the 2600K over the 2700K ?




It's all about FPS...
when you say "even a GTX560 or 6950 would work, do you mean that It would offer as much FPS as a 7970 for the current games ?


dont get a 2700k. its the same cpu as the 2600k but with an overclock that would take you 30 seconds to do. all you would have to do to make a 2600k into a 2700k is change the multiplier by 1. that is it.

the 7970 will give you about 25% more performance then a 6970.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=509
and is better then any other single gpu on the market

physX is not used by very many games.
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a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 2:59:03 AM

cbrunnem said:
dont get a 2700k. its the same cpu as the 2600k but with an overclock that would take you 30 seconds to do. all you would have to do to make a 2600k into a 2700k is change the multiplier by 1. that is it.

the 7970 will give you about 25% more performance then a 6970.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=509
and is better then any other single gpu on the market

physX is not used by very many games.

^^this man speaks the truth + 1 jillion
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a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 5:41:22 AM

4745454b said:
The chips on the motherboard will use some 12V power. As will the ram, drives, and just about everything else plugged into the machine. For example a case fan will run on 12V power, but will draw around 1A max. This means it will use 1.2W. By "guessing" 50W it allows you to provide wattage/power for all the various things that might be in there.


:heink:  "12v x 1A = 1.2W" :ouch:  (seems like error in your calculator) [:truegenius:5]
it will be 12w
:non:  50w for mobo is still not justifiable. :na: 

4 sticks of ram = 20-40w
1 ssd = 5-10w
1 hdd= ~10w
1 cd/dvd drive = ~10w
z68 chipset = ~5-10w (or 6w)
= minimum 50w and upto 100w.

so in my opinion 50 w for mobo is at boundary and so considering 100-150w :bounce:  for mobo is good, if you are considering only 5 w for mobo then you are keeping it at critical point and thus no room for aging and over-stressing of components, even not a single watt of room
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a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 5:50:13 AM

cirdecus said:

CPU: 100
MB: 50W
GPU: 250W

Thats a total draw of ~400W


:lol:  :kaola:  :pfff:  :non: 
alol, you are saying that 400w :lol:  is enough for a high end system consisting
"CPU: i7 2700K
Memory: 16 GB DDR3 1600 MHz (2x8GB)
HD: 150Gb SDD
gpu= 7970 (probably)"
csl

400w is on the boundary (or less) of minimal requirement
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a c 171 U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 6:14:58 AM

Sorry, should have been .1A. I've never seen a 12W 120mm fan.

Quote:
4 sticks of ram = 20-40w


You might have made a miss calculation there yourself. I've never seen a 5-10W stick of ram. Most online calculators put a stick of ram around 3W. SSDs are around 2-3W as well. All of your things look a bit high to me except for the chipset.
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a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 6:23:19 AM

4745454b said:
Sorry, should have been .1A. I've never seen a 12W 120mm fan.

Quote:
4 sticks of ram = 20-40w


You might have made a miss calculation there yourself. I've never seen a 5-10W stick of ram. Most online calculators put a stick of ram around 3W. SSDs are around 2-3W as well. All of your things look a bit high to me except for the chipset.


so do you mean a 250w psu can run a around 100w gpu like 6750
as
mb=50w
cpu=100w
power remaining =250-100-50=100w

i mean to say 50 w is too low and thus 100w is good to consider for mobo
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a c 171 U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 8:30:59 AM

I do not mean to say that. I have yet to see a 250W PSU that can reliably output all 250W on the 12V rail. Second, I don't normally suggest buying/using a PSU that will be ran right at its limit. You could power such a system with a quality 300 or 350W unit. The 6750 only needs 76W a PSU that can do 225W on the 12V rail is what you'd need. If a 250W PSU can actually do that and has the needed 6pin plug, then I'd say use it. But I'd probably go with a good 300-350W.

I don't use the term enough, but "at least" should be in there. Having a few amps in reserve is always a good thing. (to a point/within reason.)
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a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2012 8:37:03 AM

4745454b said:
I do not mean to say that. I have yet to see a 250W PSU that can reliably output all 250W on the 12V rail. Second, I don't normally suggest buying/using a PSU that will be ran right at its limit. You could power such a system with a quality 300 or 350W unit. The 6750 only needs 76W a PSU that can do 225W on the 12V rail is what you'd need. If a 250W PSU can actually do that and has the needed 6pin plug, then I'd say use it. But I'd probably go with a good 300-350W.

I don't use the term enough, but "at least" should be in there. Having a few amps in reserve is always a good thing. (to a point/within reason.)


"Having a few amps in reserve is always a good thing. (to a point/within reason.) " There ya go [:truegenius:6] [:truegenius:2] [:truegenius:1]
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