She will be mine... she will be mine.....

[mustachio27]

v

 

[Raiddinn]

You may have problems with your cooling and power subsystems because of the Apevia case.

It has a top mount PSU rack which are very bad. All the good cases mount the PSU on the bottom.

I would try to ask them to hold the order and choose a different case, the HAF 912.

I seriously seriously seriously think you should do that if you can. Make or break kinda serious. Especially since it isn't on rush so they probably haven't started making it yet.

Otherwise, it looks pretty good.

Not even that bad of a price if you don't want to mess around with stuff yourself.

 

[mustachio27]

You may have problems with your cooling and power subsystems because of the Apevia case.

It has a top mount PSU rack which are very bad. All the good cases mount the PSU on the bottom.

I would try to ask them to hold the order and choose a different case, the HAF 912.

I seriously seriously seriously think you should do that if you can. Make or break kinda serious. Especially since it isn't on rush so they probably haven't started making it yet.

Otherwise, it looks pretty good.

Not even that bad of a price if you don't want to mess around with stuff yourself.

lol dang i really love the look of that case, whats the worst possible outcome if i use that case?? and if i want them to put a different case in , would i have to call them or email?

 

[Raiddinn]

Go to this thread

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/340230-31-random-post-failure-reboot#t2553285

And scroll down about 2/3 of the way till you see the OP ask almost the exact same question. Something about how top mount PSU cases aren't very good.

I wrote a somewhat in depth explanation directly after that.

You should read it in its entirety if you want to know all about how the cooling and power subsystems interact with each other and the impacts they have on each other.

BTW, I would call them on the phone. ASAP.

- Edit - If you want some other decent case options, you can go with any of the NZXT cases, or the Elite 431, or maybe the Carbide 400r.

 

[mustachio27]

Go to this thread

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/340230-31-random-post-failure-reboot#t2553285

And scroll down about 2/3 of the way till you see the OP ask almost the exact same question. Something about how top mount PSU cases aren't very good.

I wrote a somewhat in depth explanation directly after that

You should read it in its entirety if you want to know all about how the cooling and power subsystems interact with each other and the impacts they have on each other.

BTW, I would call them on the phone. ASAP.

- Edit - If you want some other decent case options, you can go with any of the NZXT cases, or the Elite 431, or maybe the Carbide 400r.

what do you think about the Azza Hurrican 2000 Full Tower Gaming Case with 4 Hot Swappable HDD Cage & (4) 230MM Fans... is it better than the HAF 912 ? i like the look and it looks like it can really keep a system cool, if not i'll just go with the HAF 912 and call them asap

 

[mustachio27]

looks like i cant call them until 1:30 am here , i'm in hawaii

 

[Raiddinn]

Moving response from the other thread to this one

If you want to spend $100 extra for the case, go ahead. I don't think you would be getting your money's worth, though.

If you want to pay the extra $100 for just looks, go ahead and get it.

I don't think it will be 3x as good as keeping parts cool as the HAF 912 is, though. To me it would need to be to justify 3x the price, but I don't care much about looks myself, just performance.

The HAF 912 is good with cost vs performance, not so much looks vs performance, or cost vs looks, or stuff like that.

 

[mustachio27]

Moving response from the other thread to this one

If you want to spend $100 extra for the case, go ahead. I don't think you would be getting your money's worth, though.

If you want to pay the extra $100 for just looks, go ahead and get it.

I don't think it will be 3x as good as keeping parts cool as the HAF 912 is, though. To me it would need to be to justify 3x the price, but I don't care much about looks myself, just performance.

The HAF 912 is good with cost vs performance, not so much looks vs performance, or cost vs looks, or stuff like that.

would it stay significantly cooler than the HAF 912 ?

 

[CaedenV]

Once you get in the $75+ range the conversation goes from cooling to style, noise, and features. With your setup you do not need 'extreme cooling' because it is not a power hungry rig. If you were doing quad SLi with a small army of HDDs then you would need an over-sized case, but with a single GPU and 1-2 HDDs all you need to worry about is:
1) That everything physically fits (which is more the potential issue you could have hit with the apevia case which is a recycled design from the '90s which was a day before over-sized CPU and GPU coolers)
2) Consistent airflow moving from front to back and/or bottom to top without any dead zones where a heat producing part resides.

The HAF series is all pretty good (though not my personal style), the Hurrican is ok but will look very empty with your rig in it (seriously, it is pretty big). If you want a few more suggestions on the 'affordable' end of the spectrum then look into Thermaltake V series (I have the V3, and though a dirt cheap case it has great airflow, and space for my hyper 212 evo, 2 GTX570s, 4 HDDs, and 3x 120mm case fans to keep things moving and quiet), or Cooler Master Elite series, and NZXT makes some good cases as well.
On the more expensive end of things I would look at Corsair (I am personally looking at moving up to the 600T White), Zalman, SilverStone, LianLi, Fractal Design, and of course some of the better Cooler Master (HAF X, and cosmos) and Thermaltake (Level 10) cases.

While I think that the top-mounted PSU argument is a little overblown (there are some perfectly good/acceptable top-mount cases on the market), looking at cases with only bottom mounted PSUs will simply avoid all of the old-style cases that have simply had a new face plate slapped on them.

 

[mustachio27]

Once you get in the $75+ range the conversation goes from cooling to style, noise, and features. With your setup you do not need 'extreme cooling' because it is not a power hungry rig. If you were doing quad SLi with a small army of HDDs then you would need an over-sized case, but with a single GPU and 1-2 HDDs all you need to worry about is:
1) That everything physically fits (which is more the potential issue you could have hit with the apevia case which is a recycled design from the '90s which was a day before over-sized CPU and GPU coolers)
2) Consistent airflow moving from front to back and/or bottom to top without any dead zones where a heat producing part resides.

The HAF series is all pretty good (though not my personal style), the Hurrican is ok but will look very empty with your rig in it (seriously, it is pretty big). If you want a few more suggestions on the 'affordable' end of the spectrum then look into Thermaltake V series (I have the V3, and though a dirt cheap case it has great airflow, and space for my hyper 212 evo, 2 GTX570s, 4 HDDs, and 3x 120mm case fans to keep things moving and quiet), or Cooler Master Elite series, and NZXT makes some good cases as well.
On the more expensive end of things I would look at Corsair (I am personally looking at moving up to the 600T White), Zalman, SilverStone, LianLi, Fractal Design, and of course some of the better Cooler Master (HAF X, and cosmos) and Thermaltake (Level 10) cases.

While I think that the top-mounted PSU argument is a little overblown (there are some perfectly good/acceptable top-mount cases on the market), looking at cases with only bottom mounted PSUs will simply avoid all of the old-style cases that have simply had a new face plate slapped on them.

very much appreciate the help, i got about an hour before i can call them and change my order... but just for the record, should i DEFINETLY not get the apevia cruiser 2?? (haha i just love the look!) ... will probably end up with the HAF 912, i'm gonna take a look at the ones you suggested though. thanks again ..

 

[Raiddinn]

I disagree with CaedenV's final point. I don't think anyone with a "gaming" PC should use a top mount PSU. I don't think anyone should, but definitely not a gamer.

The benefits for having a bottom mount PSU are glaringly obvious.

I am of the opinion that you should DEFINITELY not get the Apevia Cruiser 2, regardless of what it looks like.

It isn't my call, but I really don't think you want to sacrifice function for form. My idea is to choose the form you want out of the cases with sufficient function, and that just rules out pretty much all Apevia cases.

CaedenV said there are perfectly acceptable top mount cases on the market... I would like to see one. It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that a top mount case was worthy of housing PC components in new builds, if it could be done at all.

 

[mustachio27]

I disagree with CaedenV's final point. I don't think anyone with a "gaming" PC should use a top mount PSU. I don't think anyone should, but definitely not a gamer.

The benefits for having a bottom mount PSU are glaringly obvious.

I am of the opinion that you should DEFINITELY not get the Apevia Cruiser 2, regardless of what it looks like.

It isn't my call, but I really don't think you want to sacrifice function for form. My idea is to choose the form you want out of the cases with sufficient function, and that just rules out pretty much all Apevia cases.

CaedenV said there are perfectly acceptable top mount cases on the market... I would like to see one. It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that a top mount case was worthy of housing PC components in new builds, if it could be done at all.

ok raiddinn you got me convinced with the bottom mounted psu, its officially been boiled down to 1 or 2 choices for me, the Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid-Tower Gaming Case, or the CoolerMaster 690 II Advanced Mid-Tower Gaming Case. which is the better of the 2? thank you so much guys!

 

[CaedenV]

If you are no OCing, and using the stock heatsink (or at least a low profile aftermarket heatsink), then you could keep your case and be fine. Just keep an eye on those system temps.
In the link that Raiddinn posted above he explains the argument that hot PSUs die faster than ones kept nice and cool. While your HDD/CPU/ODD/Mobo is not going to produce a significant amount of heat, the 448 core will (which is where the potential issue is as heat moves up). And the fan on that particular model you selected will dump heat into the case instead of blowing it directly out the back like a blower would. So yes, the case may be fine, but just keep an eye on temps, and keep the room cool so that the case can suck in plenty of cool air to keep things nice and frosty (perhaps flip the side panel fan to blow out as it will sit directly over the GPU).

 

[mustachio27]

after a little more research looks like the corsair carbide series 400R takes the cake..

 

[CaedenV]

I disagree with CaedenV's final point. I don't think anyone with a "gaming" PC should use a top mount PSU. I don't think anyone should, but definitely not a gamer.

The benefits for having a bottom mount PSU are glaringly obvious.

I am of the opinion that you should DEFINITELY not get the Apevia Cruiser 2, regardless of what it looks like.

It isn't my call, but I really don't think you want to sacrifice function for form. My idea is to choose the form you want out of the cases with sufficient function, and that just rules out pretty much all Apevia cases.

CaedenV said there are perfectly acceptable top mount cases on the market... I would like to see one. It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that a top mount case was worthy of housing PC components in new builds, if it could be done at all.

I do agree with you for the most part, and I got a bottom mount case before it was 'vogue' for the very reasons you stated in the other thread. But with the average gaming PC lasting 3-5 years it is quite likely that a well maintained computer with a top mount PSU will live long enough to be fine before being replaced. From a practical standpoint, I work at a computer refurbishing company and see 15 year old computers that ran quite hot for a very long time (not hot because of the power produced, but because they did not believe in ventilation at the time) with top mounted PSUs and they still work just fine (lol, as well as they ever worked being 15 years old... they don't make them like they use to... thank God). Bottom mounted cases are clearly better designed, but to say that a well vented case, in a 68-75*f room with low humidity would last significantly longer by having a bottom mounted PSU compared to a top mounted one is a bit (like I said) overblown. The life of the computer has more to do with the quality of the parts and having air exchanged instead of recycled than a 10-20*f difference in temperature.

Again, if there were multiple GPUs, a mess of HDDs, or the OP was a OCer where the potential temperature would be MUCH higher, then I would strongly suggest moving to a different case, but as it is I think the case would work OK even if I would not do it myself.

Still, the ApeVia is the weak link in the build (even from a build quality standpoint as they simply are not that good to begin with), and I personally would not buy this case (though the fireball red one looks pretty sweet lol). Besides, cases last forever (my last one was with me for ~10 years, and I still have it, but I finally 'upgraded' to a better/quieter one), so while the case would be fine for this build, it may limit future builds, which is why I would not get a top mount (also why I would not get a HAF... they look great in an anxty teenager/overclocker/gamer kind of way. But then one day you grow up and realize that clean lines and simplicity just looks nicer but that is just my opinion).

Here are a few I would consider in the sub $150 range, but again, my sense of taste may not be the same as yours:
fractial design: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352016 (or one of it's variants as there are a bunch that all look the same but have different internal features)
NZXT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146071
SilverStone http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163190
Thermaltake (the cheap level 10), I would get the snow edition which is oddly not poping up on my search. This is as close to a traditional 'gaming' case I would ever get: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133197
Corsair: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139005 (The Obsidion is also a good one and on sale)

 

[Raiddinn]

Some 15 year old computers still work because computers were so slow they made no heat back then. Heat being the number one enemy there was no reason they would degrade quickly.

Things make a lot more heat now than they did in the past and it is more important than ever to have a good case. The way things are going a good case will matter more in the future than it does now.

Also, the #1 problem that people come in here with is that they have a bad PSU. The breakout is kinda like this:

40% = bad PSU
20% = bad RAM
20% = things not plugged in right
10% = bad motherboard
5% = bad hard drive
5% = everything else together

The reason for this is that most people just don't appreciate the most important part in the whole computer and they don't take care of it well enough, ie top mounting it.

The PSU is 95% likely to be the first thing to break in a computer that works for more than a year, for much the same reasons.

The case makes so much difference in the operations that how well it does its basic job shouldn't be underrated.

 

[vrumor]

For that kinda budget shoulda been able to come out with a better vid card, and I dont see an SSD in there. Never buy prebuilts ugh. Shoulda built it yourself, but thats my opinion

 

[CaedenV]

40% = bad PSU
20% = bad RAM
20% = things not plugged in right
10% = bad motherboard
5% = bad hard drive
5% = everything else together

I am rather surprised that we do not see more HDD issues, because in my personal life I am always running into people with HDD problems (especially in the fall during the season change), but it really is rare to see one in a forum. I wonder how much of that 40% of PSU issues is due to heat, and how much of it is due to the fact that they bought a piece of junk in the first place like a Visiontek, Kingwin, some Thermaltakes that are know to be crap, Broadway Com, XION, or the old OCZ ones from before they bought out PC Power and Cooling which seems to have cleaned up their act. Or they purchased a case with a single intake fan not realizing that it is simply not enough to let the computer breathe. But the fact is that we will never know because we rarely get the whole picture on a forum. Either way, the PSU is not the place to save money on a computer. It only causes heartache and sorrow.

 

[mojorisin23]

I have the CORSAIR CARBIDE 400R and couldnt be happier. i have white LED fans and it fits perfectly under my desk. It has plenty of fans and stays cool... my GPU gives me 60 fps on battlefield 3 on high and stays at 67C. The air moves and it stays cool.

My computer is very similar to your build... i have the FRIO... like it! i dont know if you need the gasket or the vibration thingy. i would however recommend the shipping foam. its just insurance against having to RMA the whole damn thing bc some ignorant delivery man tossed it like a football.

lastly, i would not buy the monitor from them. sign up on newegg for their daily saver emails. they have that same monitor on sale once a month at least. i got it for $129.99. i ordered it 10 days after i ordered my cyberpower comp and it came 2 days later. the comp took 3 1/2 weeks... so you have time...

 

[mustachio27]

For that kinda budget shoulda been able to come out with a better vid card, and I dont see an SSD in there. Never buy prebuilts ugh. Shoulda built it yourself, but thats my opinion

well when i call them to change my case , i was thinking about going from the gtx560 ti to the gtx 580 what do you think? is it worth the +$173 ??

 

[mustachio27]

or i could always just wait and if i cant run diablo 3 on max settings(the only game i'll play for the next year at least) with just 1 gtx560 ti 448 then i could get another gtx560 and have 2 in SLI ... opinions?

 

[mustachio27]

alrighty , just got off the phone with cyberpowerpc and they just cancelled my order so i have a little time now to figure out what i want before the march madness sales end....

 

[MKBL]

If OP has to place the system on carpeted floor, top-mount PSU is not necessarily a bad idea. I keep mine on the desk, although I prefer it to be somewhere obscure, because it is bottom-mount PSU system. Even with this, I found more-than-expected dust inside the case when I cleaned the system about 8 months after I built it. I almost spent a whole can of dust-off.

 

[CaedenV]

or i could always just wait and if i cant run diablo 3 on max settings(the only game i'll play for the next year at least) with just 1 gtx560 ti 448 then i could get another gtx560 and have 2 in SLI ... opinions?

Not sure about going nuts with the 580 right now (unless you find one on a good sale), but the 570 is a good step up from the 560ti if you are worried about performance without breaking the bank.
I would avoid the 448 core. I am sure it is a perfectly working product in it's own right, but it is sort of a limited release product and may not have the same long term support as one of the normal cards. Besides, you can often find 570's for less than the 448core which is better anyways.

Keep in mind also that the 670/660/650 will be released over the next few weeks/months if you are not in a rush and should provide significantly more horsepower over their 500 series counterparts. But if you are on a deadline then something in the 560ti-570 range should meet your needs quite well.

 

[Raiddinn]

The 580 is a whole lot better than a 560 TI is. I would say its probably worth +173 if you don't particularly care about the money.

You would be better off sticking with a single video card, imho.

In my professional experience, I haven't seen very many people with bad hard drives compared to bad PSUs. I have had a hard drive go bad on me, but that was because it was a DVR hard drive that limped along from day 1.

I like my case with filters on the front intakes.