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DSLR Reliability

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Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
for some 50 years or so.

My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the current
DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the camera
to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment, or
even replacement.

Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their perception
of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
--
Mike Lees
To reply to sender, remove 'nogo' from the address.

More about : dslr reliability

Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Lees wrote:
> I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
> for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the current
> DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the camera
> to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment, or
> even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their perception
> of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
> Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.
>
I have a Pentax *istD. No returns to maker. One upgrade of firmware,
easily carried out. Approaching 5000 shots and the only problems so far
have been with the camera user, not the camera. I'm delighted with it,
and when Pentax develops a 12 MP or higher version, I'll almost
certainly go there (after which, I'll stop, as for my purposes, much
over the 12 MP mark is not needed).
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mike Lees" <michael.leesnogo@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6owre.16112$m4.8906@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
>for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
> current DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring
> the camera to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for
> adjustment, or even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
> perception of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the
> following: Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300,
> etc.
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
> --
> Mike Lees
> To reply to sender, remove 'nogo' from the address.
>

I've never had to return my D30, had it since late '01. I don't use it as
much since getting a 10D 2 years later, but I do take it along when I don't
feel like swapping lenses. Haven't had any trouble with the 10D either.

Mark
Related resources
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Lees wrote:
> I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
> for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the current
> DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the camera
> to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment, or
> even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their perception
> of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
> Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

I have been doing photography for about 40 years. In the 1990s, I was
shooting about 50 rolls per year as an amateur, having used Canon
multiple film cameras up through the Elan 7e. I also do photography
at work. Then I got a D60, then a 10D and 1D Mark II. I have never
had any problem with any camera, film or digital, work or home.
In ten years of film I did about 5000 images, but with digital I got
into wildlife photography and the count has gone way up, probably
on the order of 40,000+ images per year. I also do 4x5 film on the
order of about 200 to 400 images per year. The only issue I
have had with digital is dust on the sensor, for which I don't follow
the rules--I just blow it off with canned air, taking about 5 minutes
to take test shots and confirm the sensor is clean enough.

Roger Clark
Photography at: http://www.clarkvision.com

See my film versus digital at:
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/film.vs.digital....

other digital info at:
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Lees wrote:
> I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film
> photographer for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
> current DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another,
> requiring the camera to be returned to either the supplier or the
> manufacturer for adjustment, or even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
> perception of the reliability/problems associated with, for example
> the following: Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s,
> Olympus
> E-300, etc.
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D:
No insurmountable-in-the-field problems in 7 months (20D) and two
months (RebXT).

Well, none attributable to the hardware.

--
Frank ess
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 2:39:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <6owre.16112$m4.8906@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, Mike Lees
<michael.leesnogo@ntlworld.com> writes
>I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
>for some 50 years or so.
>
>My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the current
>DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the camera
>to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment, or
>even replacement.
>
>Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their perception
>of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
>Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.
>
>Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Hi Mike,

I have had an EOS 10D for about 2 years. My daughter has had a 300D for
about 9 months. Neither of us have had the slightest problem with the
cameras, and indeed have had complete satisfaction. I have not met
anyone who has had a problem with either camera.

It is easy to get a distorted impression from comments on newsgroups.
Lets say that out of a thousand buyers, two have a problem. They write
and complain, or ask for help, on usenet. Long discussions ensue, and
the impression of a major problem is created. Meanwhile, 998 happy users
get on with enjoying their cameras and don't complain, so you don't hear
about them.

If you are in the UK (and from your address I guess you are) then the
consumer legislation gives you reasonable protection against buying a
lemon. The key is to give any purchase (camera or indeed any other item)
a good workout as soon as you get it, to make sure it works according to
spec.

One problem I have seen mentioned is some tendency to exposure errors.
Two thoughts here. First, no camera can be assumed to give spot on
exposure to suit every photographers taste in every circumstance. It may
be necessary to set a small amount of exposure compensation as a
standard. I know, for example, that when I use my 10D for
photomicrography I have to dial in about +2/3 stop compensation - it is
working in stopped-down metering mode, and with long exposures. Once I
worked this out (which took a couple of minutes) I had no further
problem. For normal use no compensation is required. The great beauty of
DSLRs of course is that such feedback is virtually instantaneous; using
a film body the feedback was very slow.

The other thought is that many buyers of DSLRs have moved up from much
less sophisticated cameras, often using colour neg film which is
extremely tolerant of exposure errors. They have thus never had to learn
the basics of exposure measurement, and get taken by surprise when using
the DSLR (or indeed if they shift to reversal film) - both are much less
tolerant of exposure errors. Simple things like recognising a back-lit
subject and applying the necessary compensation have to be learned. For
such people, a good book on the subject is probably the best idea; I
recommend "Perfect Exposure" by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz, David &
Charles, ISBN 0 7153 0814 9. Mine is from 1999, and deals with film, but
it is possible that there may be a later edition. In any case, the
principles are valid for any medium.

David
--
David Littlewood
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 6:12:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Lees wrote:
>I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film
> photographer for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
> current DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another,
> requiring the camera to be returned to either the supplier or the
> manufacturer for adjustment, or even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
> perception of the reliability/problems associated with, for example
> the following: Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus
> E-300, etc.
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

As you may have guessed, you mostly hear about the cameras that have
problems and few people write messages just to say their camera works as
expected. So what you typically hear is very heavily weighted towards those
with problems.

I have a D20 and I have had no problems with it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 10:03:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
current
> DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the
camera
> to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment,
or
> even replacement.

Probably all products past and present of any kind have this issue. My
dining room table was just recalled by Ethan Allen. I had to take my VW in
to have a window repaired under warranty. Just today I had to have my cell
phone replaced. That wouldn't stop me from buying a new camera. :) 

> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
perception
> of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
> Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.

I have a friend who owns a Nikon D70. It takes great photos. I took it out
for a spin a few weeks ago and found it to be quite nice. I own mostly
Canon my self, so not everything on the D70 was intuitive for me, but it
felt good in my hands and the kit lens was adequate, fast, sharp.

I held the 350d/Rebel XT in the store. It's too small for me, which means
I'd be more likely to get a 20D for myself, but the 350 would be perfect for
my girlfriend. I shot the 20d a month or two ago. It basically works the
way I'd expect a Canon to work. It's more megapixels than the D70 for about
the same price which may or may not be important.

I'd say you probably can't go wrong with any of them.


--
Mark

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 11:07:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mike Lees" <michael.leesnogo@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
>for some 50 years or so.

You've got me by about 10 years<g>.

> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
> current DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring
> the camera to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for
> adjustment, or even replacement.

It ain't dSLRs, it's the automagic electronic gizmos that have been passing
for cameras since AF was invented.

In addition to bugs in new models just after release, there's also the
question of long-term survival.

You can't put that much electronics in a camera and expect it to be
affordably repairable much beyond the original warranty period. My 1950's
Rolleiflex works fine, but I won't buy a recent camera unless it's a current
model: consumer protection laws require mfrs to provide parts for 7 or 8
years after the final date of sale of discontinued products, so my Mamiya
645 ProTL and Mamiya 7II will be repairable for at least another 8 years.

With non-AF film cameras, at least there's a chance that someone will be
able to fix then.

> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
> perception of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the
> following: Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300,
> etc.

I'm much less worried about new-product bugs (since those should get fixed
in warrantee) than component failures 3 years out.

Don't buy an electronic camera, digital or film, unless you can get
your money's worth of use out of it within the warranty period. Even with
parts availability, the labor costs may be exorbitant. Some retailers offer
extended warranties, so you might want to consider that. (The store I buy
from has a 5 year warranty extension that provides decreasing coverage over
the 5 year period, but the coverage in the first two years (after mfr's
warrantee) ought to cover failed part replacement. I hope.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 11:44:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

To start, how many rolls have you burned during your 50 years of taking
photos using film ?
If you were like my friend that shoot around 1 roll / week during his 10
years of photography .. then you might be shooting around 2500rolls ?
that's around 90k frames ? and that's IF you shoot every week 1 roll.

now .. .many newbie DSLR users have surpass your mileage within only 9
months :)  ... so its quite acceptible why those camera break down very fast.

For you I think just buy one that you like ... if you use Nikon glass in the
past , just grab the D70s.
If you use Canon FD glass, you can choose either 20D or D70s or E-300 etc as
the EOS body can't take in FD glass anymore [without an adapter that is]

For me, I would go for the 20D if I was not a Nikon shooter.

=bob=






"Mike Lees" <michael.leesnogo@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6owre.16112$m4.8906@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
>for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
> current DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring
> the camera to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for
> adjustment, or even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
> perception of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the
> following: Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300,
> etc.
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
> --
> Mike Lees
> To reply to sender, remove 'nogo' from the address.
>
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:03:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I would like to thank all the contributors to this thread for their helpful
advice - like most of you have stated, the best thing is just to go ahead
and buy.

Thanks
Mike Lees


"Mike Lees" <michael.leesnogo@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6owre.16112$m4.8906@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
>for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the
> current DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring
> the camera to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for
> adjustment, or even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their
> perception of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the
> following: Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300,
> etc.
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
> --
> Mike Lees
> To reply to sender, remove 'nogo' from the address.
>
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:44:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:

> with digital I got
> into wildlife photography and the count has gone way up, probably
> on the order of 40,000+ images per year.

Correction: I think I've done about 40,000 images with the 10D + 1 D Mark II
over the last couple of years. I'm on frame 21,389 right now on the 1DII and
I bought the camera last August. I don't remember how many times the 10D
rolled over (at 9,999 images). Does anyone know how to check the
real frame number on canon cameras?

Roger
June 15, 2005 3:13:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:44:16 -0600, "Roger N. Clark (change username
to rnclark)" <username@qwest.net> wrote:

>Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
>
>> with digital I got
>> into wildlife photography and the count has gone way up, probably
>> on the order of 40,000+ images per year.
>
>Correction: I think I've done about 40,000 images with the 10D + 1 D Mark II
>over the last couple of years. I'm on frame 21,389 right now on the 1DII and
>I bought the camera last August. I don't remember how many times the 10D
>rolled over (at 9,999 images). Does anyone know how to check the
>real frame number on canon cameras?
>
>Roger

I don't think you actually can check the real frame number but if I'm
wrong I'd love to find out because I'd like to know the actual number
of shots on my 10D as well.


Drifter
"I've been here, I've been there..."
June 15, 2005 3:37:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Lees wrote:

> I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
> for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the current
> DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the camera
> to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment, or
> even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their perception
> of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
> Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Sure there have been problems reported with some models. Back focus
issues and lock-ups with early D70s, lock-ups and cameras that were
"dead on arrival" with Canon. I have yet to read of a case where Canon
or Nikon left the customer on their own. What's more, I don't actually
know anyone who has experienced any such problem - I only read about
them on the net. Less reports about other brands because the above two
brands account for most of the sales anyway.

If my dslr camera body is "dead" in 3 years at my current rate of use,
then I will have had excellent value from it and no regrets. It will
have cost me much less than film would have over that period for the
same amount of shooting. It has rekindled my interest in photography.
Life is short. If you have a passion for photography, just do it. Buy
Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta, Olympus (apologies if I forgot someone)
with confidence. Extended warranty is available from some dealers at an
additional cost - if you want extra peace of mind.

Of course they are disposible items - like your car, TV, DVD player,
computer, your entire kitchen and bathroom... etc. Prices for even
good quality used 35mm film cameras are so low that any ideas that they
retained value better have now been destroyed. The exception to that is
only for collectables, and there must be only a remote possibility of
"rare" digital cameras ever achieving that status.

Have fun - and stop worrying. If you have been shooting 35mm - or have
an expectation that a dslr will replace or supplement your 35mm
shooting, then I do not think you will be disappointed.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 4:16:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username@qwest.net> wrote:
> Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
>
>> with digital I got
>> into wildlife photography and the count has gone way up, probably
>> on the order of 40,000+ images per year.
>
> Correction: I think I've done about 40,000 images with the 10D + 1 D Mark
> II
> over the last couple of years. I'm on frame 21,389 right now on the 1DII
> and
> I bought the camera last August. I don't remember how many times the 10D
> rolled over (at 9,999 images).

Have you had to replace the shutter on either of those cameras?

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 4:16:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David J. Littleboy wrote:

> "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username@qwest.net> wrote:
>
>>Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>with digital I got
>>>into wildlife photography and the count has gone way up, probably
>>>on the order of 40,000+ images per year.
>>
>>Correction: I think I've done about 40,000 images with the 10D + 1 D Mark
>>II
>>over the last couple of years. I'm on frame 21,389 right now on the 1DII
>>and
>>I bought the camera last August. I don't remember how many times the 10D
>>rolled over (at 9,999 images).
>
>
> Have you had to replace the shutter on either of those cameras?

No. Not a single problem. I even dropped the 1D Mark II when I
was in Australia in April: it slide off a bench onto concrete
(yeah that was stupid). But not a dent on it and it
worked just as well as before the drop. I've operated it in dusty
conditions, rain, and temperatures as low as 14 degrees F,
all with no problems.

Roger
June 15, 2005 7:10:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

When I rolled over my 300D, I noticed that the folder numbers didn't
reset. If the other Canon cameras are the same, that should tell you
how many frames you've shot.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 1:25:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Lees wrote:
> I am in the market for a 'mid-range' DSLR having been a film photographer
> for some 50 years or so.
>
> My perception is, from reading various comments, that almost all the current
> DSLR's appear to have problems of one kind or another, requiring the camera
> to be returned to either the supplier or the manufacturer for adjustment, or
> even replacement.
>
> Would the members of this esteemed group care to comment on their perception
> of the reliability/problems associated with, for example the following:
> Canon EOS 350D, Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70/D70s, Olympus E-300, etc.
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

I have not had any problems with my Nikon D70, which I have used to take over
3000 photos.

Of course that doesn't mean there are no D70s with problems. I doubt you would
find a single product that has no problems.

Ben Thomas
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 10:04:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:10:43 -0700, MadHatter wrote:

> When I rolled over my 300D, I noticed that the folder numbers didn't
> reset. If the other Canon cameras are the same, that should tell you
> how many frames you've shot.
Have you looked at the manual lately?
It is in there.
--
neil
delete delete to reply
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 6:13:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username@qwest.net>
wrote in message news:42AF9600.3060209@qwest.net...
> Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
SNIP

> Does anyone know how to check the real frame number on canon
> cameras?

There has been some discussion about that on the DPreview forums, and
other places no doubt. If I recall correctly, the Canon Service
Centers can read that info, and there may be some utilities that can
display the "number of actuations". If you do a search on "actuations"
you may be able to find a few useful ones in the mirad of less useful
ones (maybe a better search string can be composed).
<http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/search_new.asp?query=...;

Bart
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 6:55:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
news:42b16d05$0$12044$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username@qwest.net>
> wrote in message news:42AF9600.3060209@qwest.net...
>> Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
> SNIP
>
>> Does anyone know how to check the real frame number on canon
>> cameras?
>
> There has been some discussion about that on the DPreview forums,
> and other places no doubt. If I recall correctly, the Canon Service
> Centers can read that info, and there may be some utilities that can
> display the "number of actuations". If you do a search on
> "actuations" you may be able to find a few useful ones in the mirad
> of less useful ones (maybe a better search string can be composed).
> <http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/search_new.asp?query=...;

In fact this http://www.soens.de/ seems to do the job for the Canon
"1D" series. I don't know if it works, because you have to pay before
it shows the number of 'images'. The trial version does not show it, I
just tried.

Bart

Bart
!