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Get Ivy Bridge now or wait?

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July 21, 2012 2:10:31 PM

I currently have a very old CPU, C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz. I dont game on this.
I really wanna start PC gaming (on xbox atm) so i will be building a new system towards the end of this year.
Now my dilemma is: Shall i wait for Haswell or just go with Ivy Bridge now (or maybe SB?)?

Apart from the socket changing (1155 to 1150)...
+Will there be a huge difference between them two? In terms of gaming and light file conversions?
+How d'you guys think the prices will go- much more expensive for Haswell or will it be thesame as Ivy now?
+How d'you think OC'ing go? Much hotter (than Ivy) as much smaller die size?
+Any other things i should be aware?

Thanks people!

More about : ivy bridge wait

a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 2:13:15 PM

Haswell is ~ 1 year from the market. Can u wait?

Looks like it will OC better, due to increased power consumption.
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July 21, 2012 2:17:37 PM

nikorr said:
Haswell is ~ 1 year from the market.


1 Year? I read somewhere that it would come out 2013 around Feb-April time :??: 

But if i did wait, do you think it would have been really worth the wait?
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a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 2:25:21 PM

~ 1 year : ))

Well, AMD is not driving Intel crazy.

I hope for Jan1st :D  But, who knows.
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a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 2:28:54 PM

Who really knows on the Haswell launch times. Ivy Bridge was delayed, and it is likely Haswell will be delayed at least an equal amount of time. In addition, the core i3 ivy's are not even launched yet, so the Ivy Bridge launch isn't complete.
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July 21, 2012 2:39:18 PM

Ah! I guess it wouldnt be a bad idea to upgrade to Ivy now then instead of waiting.

How long d'you think Iyv will be able to last until you would REALLY need to upgrade again? As im sure there wont be atleast 50% improvement from Ivy to Haswell or probably even Broadwell.
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a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 2:40:39 PM

Well, I am "waiting" with 2600K.
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a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 3:07:05 PM

i think im going to wait to see what comes after haswell

got a i5-2400

board supports ivy so id rather get better gpu in the future (an ssd as well, waiting for price of large ones to drop)
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a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 3:17:46 PM

I don't thing prices will be dropping anytime soon.

AMD is not pushing Intel, so who wants the fastest, it will cost, hopefully the same.

It could get worst too. RAM is about to go up.
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July 21, 2012 3:23:24 PM

nikorr said:
AMD is not pushing Intel, so who wants the fastest, it will cost, hopefully the same.
It could get worst too. RAM is about to go up.


Very good point!
And why is RAM going up anyway?
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Anonymous
July 21, 2012 6:46:23 PM

Apart from the socket changing (1155 to 1150)...
+Will there be a huge difference between them two? In terms of gaming and light file conversions?

The socket changing issue could be a problem selecting a new motherboard the latest socket is 2011 if many upcoming processors will run to that socket nobody really can answered for sure except Intel.

Differences between Processors is not always visible in the “real life computing” you will not find many x64 applications, games that use more than 3.5 GBytes ram, you will not find many games that are using more than 1 core either. There for expecting your real life experience will not be improved as much as you thing.

In Tom’s hardware reviews are running many different benchmarks not just 1 and end up saying this processor is 5% or 15% better you can see here a review of the new ivy:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ivy-bridge-benchmar...

The data are really valuable and the safe jump to conclusion is that i7-2700K with more aggressive OC frequency nearly matching the -3770K’s performance in the process!? Maybe OCing a bit your processor is what you really need. 2 ssd’s in raid 0 will give you a performance boost visible in your real life experience, even in idle, is always good to look for an onboard raid controller.

+How d'you guys think the prices will go- much more expensive for Haswell or will it be thesame as Ivy now?

how much more expencive it will be no one can tell the price's dosen't always mach the perrfonace impact i7-2700K prices are going up as many choose to move in there at the time moment.

+How d'you think OC'ing go? Much hotter (than Ivy) as much smaller die size?
+Any other things i should be aware?

Many People think because is smaller and consumes less energy it will run cooler they are dead rong the new ivy cpu’s are runnging up to +20 C hotter!! This will help you understand in deep details why I say no to new ivy cpu’s:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/340000-10-corei-792...

The heat spreaders removed, thermal camera is used, etc.

Finally I’m forced to say a big NO to the new ivy cpu’s.

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a c 134 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 7:04:10 PM

wrenaudrey said:
And why is RAM going up anyway?

A couple of things:
- one of the DRAM manufacturers (Elpida) has gone bankrupt
- many of the others have slowed down their production to reduce their inventory
- some are preparing to convert production lines to DDR4

In other words, surplus production of DDR3 is nearing its end. If you still do not understand what that means, look at DDR2 prices for a preview of where DDR3 might stand 2-3 years from now.
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a c 332 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 7:20:39 PM

wrenaudrey said:
I currently have a very old CPU, C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz. I dont game on this.
I really wanna start PC gaming (on xbox atm) so i will be building a new system towards the end of this year.
Now my dilemma is: Shall i wait for Haswell or just go with Ivy Bridge now (or maybe SB?)?

Apart from the socket changing (1155 to 1150)...
+Will there be a huge difference between them two? In terms of gaming and light file conversions?
+How d'you guys think the prices will go- much more expensive for Haswell or will it be thesame as Ivy now?
+How d'you think OC'ing go? Much hotter (than Ivy) as much smaller die size?
+Any other things i should be aware?

Thanks people!


If you wait for the next best thing on the horizon, you will wait forever.
If you have a need now, buy now. It is a good time to buy.
Prices are competitive, and new product issues have been resolved.

1) No difference. Gaming is mostly graphics card dependent, not cpu dependent.
2) Prices will be the same, but you will get a small improvement in performance for your dollar. Just like past new cpu introductions. Think 10%, probably coming from better Instruction per clock.
3) I suspect that the OC potential will be better a bit, since the packaging has had time to get improved. Ivy is not hotter, actually cooler than sandy bridge. The problem comes only when seeking maximum overclocks needing higher voltages.
I expect haswell to be similar.

If you owned a sandy bridge cpu, there is no compelling reason to upgrade to ivy bridge today.
I see the same situation when haswell arrives, at least for the gamer. If you need to use integrated graphics, then haswell will shine.
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a b à CPUs
July 21, 2012 7:30:07 PM

We've still got a Q6600 (older than your CPU) kicking running games. Chokes a little bit on CPU intensive games like StarCraft 2, but only for very high unit counts. If you are trying to game, I think you will be fine. Also, it might be really nice to game with your current setup for a while, to get a baseline feel of how well games perform on this setup, so when you upgrade, you can really notice the difference, and/or pinpoint what upgrades you want to spend a lot of money on by observing the games you play as either CPU limited, or GPU limited (more common).
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Anonymous
July 21, 2012 7:37:51 PM

geofelt said:
If you wait for the next best thing on the horizon, you will wait forever.
3) I suspect that the OC potential will be better a bit, since the packaging has had time to get improved. Ivy is not hotter, actually cooler than sandy bridge. The problem comes only when seeking maximum overclocks needing higher voltages.
I expect haswell to be similar.


This one didn't oc he gets 90c with a simple prime95 test

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/341561-10-temps-377...

Maybe I wasn't good enought for propertly explaining why these chips are runnging hotter by the hour in my link above! In fact They end up downclocking then to 1.5 Ghz in idle just to get some cool trempratures. I run my cores at 3Ghz idle....

I really hope the next Intel cpu's will not have the same cooling methods
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a c 332 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 7:47:42 PM

If you have a decent cooler in an adequately ventilated case, 70c. should not be a problem.

Before I started this reply, I started up prime95 with a 3570K oc'ed to 4.3. Voltage is 1.192v.
My hottest core has maxed at 68c, and the coolest one has maxed at 59c. I don't think it will go hotter.

Just one anecdotal sample.
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Anonymous
July 21, 2012 7:56:09 PM

Can you run a prime95 torture test 4 threads, minimal fft 6000Mbytes (all your cpu cache) and only half of your system ram and provide us a screenshot? i figured 1 hour is more than enough to feel the heat to the bone.

Put i have to warn you i know something you don't and you really need to read this first word by word:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/340000-10-corei-792...
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a c 134 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 8:03:56 PM

Anonymous said:
This one didn't oc he gets 90c with a simple prime95 test

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/341561-10-temps-377...

Maybe I wasn't good enought for propertly explaining why these chips are runnging hotter by the hour in my link above!

Keep in mind that the guy in the thread you linked is running his 3770k in a SFF PC, which means a lot less airflow than usually available in a standard case.

You cannot generalize based on results from what essentially is a worst-case scenario. The same CPU in a standard ATX case and an inexpensive enthusiast HSF like the 212EVO would be unlikely to go much beyond 70C in Prime95, maybe less.
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Anonymous
July 21, 2012 8:06:20 PM

InvalidError said:
Keep in mind that the guy in the thread you linked is running his 3770k in a SFF PC, which means a lot less airflow than usually available in a standard case.

You cannot generalize based on results from what essentially is a worst-case scenario. The same CPU in a standard ATX case and an inexpensive enthusiast HSF like the 212EVO would be unlikely to go much beyond 70C in Prime95, maybe less.


This one had NH-D14, was a member in tom's hardware and also tried something i asked him to:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum2.php?config=t...

Anyway in here you may understund why is not what cooler you have related the problem:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/340000-10-corei-792...
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a c 332 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 8:14:43 PM

No way am I going to take out half my ram to run those tests.
I did change from blend to smal fft, and yes, the max hottest core has gone up to 73c, and the coolest core maxes at 67c.

I think the key is to be reasonable on how high you try to OC. If you are looking for the maximum stable oc, then things can get very toasty.
If you are satisfied, as I am with 4.3 then you do not have much to worry about.
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Anonymous
July 21, 2012 8:18:02 PM

geofelt said:
No way am I going to take out half my ram to run those tests.
I did change from blend to smal fft, and yes, the max hottest core has gone up to 73c, and the coolest core maxes at 67c.

I think the key is to be reasonable on how high you try to OC. If you are looking for the maximum stable oc, then things can get very toasty.
If you are satisfied, as I am with 4.3 then you do not have much to worry about.


Here is a 2 hours test pirme95 torture, my cpu cache more than my half memory ussed and furmark 1.8 extrem burning running together

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3953/prime956gbytesf...

Your Cpu can handle the half i asked and i know it.

PS the OP in here with his processor, the right choices in cpu cooler, pc box, fans, ect can run the same test better! Have no doubt that his CPU will run cooler than any ivy. Whatever you do you can't couch him and this is why:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/340000-10-corei-792...
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July 21, 2012 10:46:43 PM

geofelt said:
No way am I going to take out half my ram to run those tests.
I did change from blend to smal fft, and yes, the max hottest core has gone up to 73c, and the coolest core maxes at 67c.


Anonymous said:
Here is a 2 hours test pirme95 torture, my cpu cache more than my half memory ussed and furmark 1.8 extrem burning running together

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3953/prime956gbytesf...


I'd appreciate it if both of you guys could answer these questions

If i was to upgrade my cpu now, dyou think i should get SB or IB? Will probably be doing mild OC (around 4.2Ghz)

If i was to get an IB, what temps could i expect as 'normal idle' temp? Cause my Q8300 right now cannot be OC'ed but idles 33c
If i was to get an SB, what temps could i expect as 'normal idle' temp?

If i was to get an IB, what temps could i expect as 'mid to max' temp if i OC to 4.2Ghz? Lets say the cpu is a 3570k and 3770k
If i was to get an SB, what temps could i expect as 'mid to max' temp if i OC to 4.2Ghz? Lets say, 2500k and a 2700k
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a c 478 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 10:54:27 PM

I got a Q9450 @ 3.0GHz.

I'm waiting for Haswell next year before I upgrade. I might even wait until Broadwell is released in 2014, but that's unlikely.

If your Q8300 is too slow for your tastes, then it's probably best to upgrade to IB. If you feel that the performance is still good enough or you think you can limp by, then wait for Haswell.
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a c 478 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 10:58:01 PM

Prices might be slightly higher than IB CPUs.

IB CPUs were supposed to priced the same as SB CPUs, but Intel slightly increased the prices so that they can forecast higher revenues to satisfy shareholders. Otherwise, their stock price would probably have dropped as investors would be a little disappointed with future revenue growth.
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a c 332 à CPUs
July 21, 2012 11:06:27 PM

wrenaudrey said:
I'd appreciate it if both of you guys could answer these questions

If i was to upgrade my cpu now, dyou think i should get SB or IB? Will probably be doing mild OC (around 4.2Ghz)

If i was to get an IB, what temps could i expect as 'normal idle' temp? Cause my Q8300 right now cannot be OC'ed but idles 33c
If i was to get an SB, what temps could i expect as 'normal idle' temp?

If i was to get an IB, what temps could i expect as 'mid to max' temp if i OC to 4.2Ghz? Lets say the cpu is a 3570k and 3770k
If i was to get an SB, what temps could i expect as 'mid to max' temp if i OC to 4.2Ghz? Lets say, 2500k and a 2700k


To answer your questions:

I would get IB. At stock, it is a bit faster, and the efficiency per clock is about 5% better.
In normal operation, with a 4.2 OC, I still think it will run sufficiently cool, despite the concerns of Giatrakis.

As a sample of one, My hottest 3570K @ 4.3 core idles at 32c. The others average about 28c. Measured with realtemp.
When in normal usage, gaming, I see about 40c. One reason it is not much higher is that it is hard to get all 4 cores loaded up to a high usage percentage. For what it is worth, the TJMAX is 105c.
That is with speedstep reducing the multiplier to 1.6. It may not be accurate since my room ambient is hot, at about 27c.

Previously I had a 2600K @4.0, and as I recall, the idle was a bit hotter. Under load, I think I was a bit hotter too, but I forget those numbers.

I changed because I never used any of the 2600K hyperthreads, and I sold it for enough to pay for the 3750K.
I am happy with the exchange.

For either, I think you should see little difference between the hyperthreading chips. I experimented with disabling hyperthreading on the 2600K, and could not tell the difference.

To my mind, heat with IB and SB is no longer an issue as it was with the older pentiums
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Anonymous
July 21, 2012 11:37:25 PM

Are you an expert making the most difficult questions in details?

>If i was to upgrade my cpu now, you think i should get SB or IB? Will probably be doing mild OC (around 4.2Ghz)

With a sandy bridge of course you can go to 5 Ghz and running cooler than any ivy cpu there is no doubt but how higher can you go is more like the effective cooling you can make more than anything else are fluxed solder thermal transfer processors.

Make sure your motherboard you will choose will allows you cpu multiplier OC range around x50 as your FSB can only be synchronized with your memory running limits! The memory multiplier is also important if it can go lower than 2.0, I other words you need faster memory to go as higher as you can.

>If i was to get an IB, what temps could i expect as 'normal idle' temp? Cause my Q8300 right now cannot be OC'ed but idles 33c

Even with the best cpu cooler NH-D14 you will never get normal temps in a ivy cpu. You can OC your processor if you increase the airflow to your cpu cooler to the maximum.

>If i was to get an SB, what temps could i expect as 'normal idle' temp?

As normal as the CPU coller and the airflow in your box can give you i say with Raven Rv03 and NH-D14 you will +2 +4 C above ambient temprature in your room.

>If i was to get an IB, what temps could i expect as 'mid to max' temp if i OC to 4.2Ghz? Lets say the cpu is a 3570k and 3770k

You will running higher than any sandy cpu even Raven Rv03 and NH-D14 can't solve the problem of over heating to ivy cpu's trust me.

>If i was to get an SB, what temps could i expect as 'mid to max' temp if i OC to 4.2Ghz? Lets say, 2500k and a 2700k

You can drop it at 60 c maximum easily but with i7 3820 or i7 3930K you can get an 2011 LGA motherboard and the chance to upgrade
in feature cpu’s hopping the intel will not make the same mistake with thermal conductivity to the heat spreader.

This is my favorite thread i report evrything else here:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/340000-10-corei-792...
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July 21, 2012 11:58:15 PM

You could easily overclock that Q8300 to 3Ghz or even more with decent cooling.
Sure, it's old but still potent, it's not like you're replacing a low-end Celeron...

Intel's Tock's have always been better (New microarchitecture) ( Core2, Nehalem - introduction of iX CPU's, Sandy Bridge ), so most likely Haswell will be awesome compared to Ivy Bridge, which was a -meh-, not better than Sandy ( except in power consumption ).

With your current CPU, I would definitely wait.
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July 22, 2012 1:11:59 PM

geofelt said:
As a sample of one, My hottest 3570K @ 4.3 core idles at 32c. The others average about 28c. Measured with realtemp.

What cooler are you using and mobo? Cant believe that an OC'ed IB will average cooler than my old Q8300

wavetrex said:
You could easily overclock that Q8300 to 3Ghz or even more with decent cooling.

I've tried and done Oc'ing this cpu. I got to 2.9Ghz and the temps weren't really changing from stock freq to OC'ed (staying at 33c)
I've asked here before and the reason that i cant get higher than 2.9Ghz on this Q8300 is apprently because of my mobo, i have a ASUS P5G41CM-LX. And also, im willing to but not knowledged enough to change the cpu voltages and start playing around with them


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Anonymous
July 22, 2012 1:33:16 PM

I warn you to increase the air flow to cpu cooler to the maximum before tring to OC your cpu is more than sure you will go to 3ghz and above if you do that.

I running my cores to 3 ghz idle and i get a boost to 3.3 Ghz on 100% load the only wall that stopping me to go above is the 60 c 100% load to the cores and i can't alow that happening.

As you may noticed (the ups below the 2 hours test) my machine is over loaded with raid disks and i get ++400 watts work load! This heat must me driven out of my box and i have in my room all the windows WIDE open!

I'm operating in ambient temprature of 32 c as i post this

You can check it in here:

http://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/thessaloniki/

the only valuable data to confirm the effectivnes of your cooling methods is to give how many C above ambient the cores will run. MY cpu is running +5 c above ambient and that means 37 C.

Ps you can see the screenshot here:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9941/currenttemp.jpg

core temp and speedfan the core temp is always giving much lower temps to the cores the speed fan is giving corectly the cpu and the system as you see it in bios. I prefer speedfan becouse is showing the system temprature in the tray and that all i care about...

Ps2 but you can think what i wrote you above is 100% accurate "you will get +2-5 C above ambient" have in mind my cpu is older than yours 105 watts.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/340000-10-corei-792...
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a c 332 à CPUs
July 22, 2012 2:20:35 PM

wrenaudrey said:
What cooler are you using and mobo? Cant believe that an OC'ed IB will average cooler than my old Q8300


I've tried and done Oc'ing this cpu. I got to 2.9Ghz and the temps weren't really changing from stock freq to OC'ed (staying at 33c)
I've asked here before and the reason that i cant get higher than 2.9Ghz on this Q8300 is apprently because of my mobo, i have a ASUS P5G41CM-LX. And also, im willing to but not knowledged enough to change the cpu voltages and start playing around with them


I am using a prolimatech megahalems, and a M-ATX asus P8P67-M pro motherbaord.
Actually, the 120mm cpu fan is undervolted,
I am using a Silverstone TJ-08E case. The front 180mm fan is on lowest speed setting, and undervolted.
I did not install an optional rear 120mm exit fan, since it really is not needed.
In operation, it is all but inaudible.

Over the years, I have used previous generations of Intel chips, and there was always some sort of heat issues with the 65 and 45nm chips.
Not so with the newer 32 and 2nm chips.

Chips come with different OC capabilities; is is somewhat the luck of the draw. I think the newer motherboards are more capable of a good OC than yours. It is not so much the better voltage regulation(excepting for maximum OC levels) as it is the "K" suffix cpu's that are designed to be Overclocked just by raising the multiplier.

Intel only guarantees the base multiplier, but invites you to raise it to whatever limit you can with a "K".
This limit will be higher with a decent cpu cooler, a quality motherboard, and good luck with a good binned chip.
They will even sell you an extended warranty to cover permanent damage to a failed chip. They expect to make money on the deal, so I don't recommend it.

My simpleminded approach to overclocking is to leave the voltage on "auto" and only raise the multiplier to a conservative level.
Works for me.
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July 22, 2012 4:36:26 PM

My best advise, get IB the best you can afford, enjoy it and when Haswel is released sell it and buy the next gen, and so on. Good luck.
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