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Need help reviewing my setup before I buy it

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April 8, 2012 8:37:33 PM

Hi guys, I just wanted to Get some opinions on my gaming build before I bought it. I have Two builds in mind and im not sure which one is better, so here is the list:


cpu:AMD Phenom II x4 965 OR Intel i5 2500
gpu: Radeon 7870 OR Geforce 560ti
Motherboard:Asus Sabertooth 990fx OR LGA 1155 Asus Maximus IV gen 3
Memory:8 gigs of G-skill ripjaws 1600MHz OR 8 gigs of corsair blue 1600MHz
Case:Cooler Master Storm Enforcer
Power:750w
Operating system:Windows 7 Professional 64 bit
HDD:500gig western digital caviar blue 7200rpm

Like I said it will be used for gaming. Any opinions are appreciated, thanks.

More about : reviewing setup buy

a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 8:46:56 PM

CPU. The 2500k benchmarks higher than the 965, but the 965 is substantially cheaper. In terms of noticeable gaming performance (not based on benchmarks) there isn't a difference. But thats your call. If you want to spend the extra money, thats up to you. (The human eye can't tell the difference between say 40FPS and 50FPS), and a typical computer monitor only shows 60FPS max, unless you pay at least $400 for a 120hz monitor.

GPU- 7870 beats the 560 ti, but not definitively enough in my opinion to justify an extra 100 dollars. But if you pick the 7870 then I would vote to spend the extra money to pair it with the 2500k Intel.

RAM- I vote go for 16. More than you probably need, but why not?

PSU- What brand, and model? This is important. Personally I recommend Corsair TX750 its $105 and worth every penny.
April 8, 2012 8:57:38 PM

Hmm I've heard that you can't tell a difference so I will Probably go with the Phenom II and 560ti. As for the psu I havent thought much about so i will go with the Corsair TX750. For the ram the only reason i dont go more than 8 is beause i am on a budget and im trying to save where ever I can.
Related resources
April 8, 2012 9:02:55 PM

Wow you cant really tell a difference! But anyway thanks for the help.
a b B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:06:12 PM

I don't know how reliable that is. Doesn't youtube convert all videos to 30 frames per second? You definitely can tell the difference between running a game at 30 frames per second and 60. Try it yourself.

I would recommend the i5 2500 and the 7870 unless you can wait for Ivy Bridge to be released in 3 weeks, then I'd recommend the i5 3570 and 7870. The gtx 670 may also be a viable option. It will probably be around $350 as well and perform better (just as the 680 performs better than the 7970)

EDIT: You also need to think about how long you want your system to be capable of playing new games. If you're playing the latest games and barely achieving a decent framerate now, what happens in 6 months?
April 8, 2012 9:11:33 PM

As of right now i have a Stock dell 390 workstation with a geforce 560ti and a bigger power supply and i can play battlefield 3 at a good fps. So im thinking ill be ok for a few years at least.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:12:53 PM

mortonww said:
I don't know how reliable that is. Doesn't youtube convert all videos to 30 frames per second? You definitely can tell the difference between running a game at 30 frames per second and 60. Try it yourself.

I would recommend the i5 2500 and the 7870 unless you can wait for Ivy Bridge to be released in 3 weeks, then I'd recommend the i5 3570 and 7870.



Its reliable enough. You turn up the quality settings on youtube and run it on full screen as it recommends in the video description and you get your 30 vs 60 FPS. At least, I can see a difference between the two videos, but that is something to look into.

I have played games myself in 30 and 60FPS. there isnt a difference that is substantially noticeable.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.ht...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc8HPSxW1Yk&feature=rela...
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:15:12 PM

As far as what will happen 6 months from now? the 560 will still be able to do everything it could before. 3 years is another story. Thats about the extreme one who wishes to stay on top of technology in order to play the newest game titles at the highest settings available could expect. Spending more now for features you don't need under the pretense that you might need them in a couple years is not an economical way to build systems in the long run.
April 8, 2012 9:21:20 PM

Exactly because in 3 years the technology we have today might be super out-dated seeing as how technology advances so fast. Thats why I feel safe buying these items now.
a b B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:22:01 PM

I disagree. If you have the money, buy a card that can play your games well (60 FPS) and not just barely playable (30 FPS) now.

There is a noticeable difference between 30 FPS and 60. And if you are averaging 30, you're dipping below that at some points. That is ugly and to do that to yourself on purpose is sadomasochistic.

What is your monitor resolution and what games are you interested in playing?
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:26:11 PM

mortonww said:
I disagree. If you have the money, buy a card that can play your games well (60 FPS) and not just barely playable (30 FPS) now.

There is a noticeable difference between 30 FPS and 60. And if you are averaging 30, you're dipping below that at some points. That is ugly and to do that to yourself on purpose is sadomasochistic.

What is your monitor resolution and what games are you interested in playing?


But you're assuming that the 560 Ti is going to give you 30FPS, thats just not true. And 30FPS is perfectly playable in most games, not barely playable.
April 8, 2012 9:26:36 PM

My screen resolution is 1280x1024 and i would like to play BF3 and Skyrim.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:29:26 PM

My significant other has a GTX 460, thats a nearly 2 year old video card, it plays skyrim and every other game just fine.

Paying 350 bucks for a video card because of what it might be able to do in the future is a stupid idea. And I mean plain stupid.

Its smarter to buy a 150 dollar card that does what you need it to do today.. and then in 3 years buy another 150 dollar card that does everything you need it to do then. You've saved 50 bucks.. And theres no guarantee the 350 dollar video card you bought today would be adequate 3 years from now anyway.

"future proofing" is a concept that any respectable PC enthusiast needs to drop from their vocabulary.
a b B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:33:12 PM

Oh. At 1280x1024, the 560 Ti will probably be fine in those games. If you were gaming at 1080p, I would suggest going for the 7870. Do you plan to buy a new monitor that's 1080p at some point in the future? Here's a useful tool to see how graphics cards and CPU's stack up against each other:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/549?vs=541

That's a comparison of the 7850 ($250) to the 560 Ti.

At a resolution of 1280 x 1024, CPU will also be important, so again I'd recommend an intel. i5 2500 now or, if you have three weeks, i5 3570.

What happens at low resolutions is that your GPU is so fast at displaying frames, a slow CPU can't send them fast enough and creates a "bottleneck".
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:36:00 PM

mortonww said:
Oh. At 1280x1024, the 560 Ti will probably be fine in those games. If you were gaming at 1080p, I would suggest going for the 7870. Do you plan to buy a new monitor that's 1080p at some point in the future? Here's a useful tool to see how graphics cards and CPU's stack up against each other:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/549?vs=541

That's a comparison of the 7850 ($250) to the 560 Ti.

At a resolution of 1280 x 1024, CPU will also be important, so again I'd recommend an intel. i5 2500 now or, if you have three weeks, i5 3570.

What happens at low resolutions is that your GPU is so fast at displaying frames, a slow CPU can't send them fast enough and creates a "bottleneck".



I can go along with you with the 7850 vs 560 ti.. But I do think you put a little too much stock in "future proofing".
a b B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:37:43 PM

nekulturny said:
My significant other has a GTX 460, thats a nearly 2 year old video card, it plays skyrim and every other game just fine.

Paying 350 bucks for a video card because of what it might be able to do in the future is a stupid idea. And I mean plain stupid.

Its smarter to buy a 150 dollar card that does what you need it to do today.. and then in 3 years buy another 150 dollar card that does everything you need it to do then. You've saved 50 bucks.. And theres no guarantee the 350 dollar video card you bought today would be adequate 3 years from now anyway.

"future proofing" is a concept that any respectable PC enthusiast needs to drop from their vocabulary.


Right, so imagine I bought a $150 Radeon 4850 3 years ago. You're saying it would be a good idea for me to crossfire 4850's at the present time? When every card $200 and up is more efficient, faster, directx 11 capable, and still receiving driver support? And I should deal with incompatibilities (i.e. Crysis 2), microstuttering, and dual-card driver issues too? Oh, okay.

A $250 Radeon 7850 is not a bad buy. And when the gtx 660 Ti releases, it will be an even better buy. No point in getting the bare minimum if you can afford to get something that plays your games fluidly for longer.

EDIT: I never said "future proof". Buying the bare minimum for no reason isn't wise.
April 8, 2012 9:41:20 PM

on the comparison it showed that th 560ti had better fps on battlefield 3 even at higher quality. I would like a intel but the budget I have will probaby not allow me to have it.
I dont think I will have a Better moniter anyways.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:42:24 PM

mortonww said:
Right, so imagine I bought a $150 Radeon 4850 3 years ago. You're saying it would be a good idea for me to crossfire 4850's at the present time? When every card $200 and up is more efficient, faster, directx 11 capable, and still receiving driver support? And I should deal with incompatibilities (i.e. Crysis 2), microstuttering, and dual-card driver issues too? Oh, okay.

A $250 Radeon 7850 is not a bad buy. And when the gtx 660 Ti releases, it will be an even better buy. No point in getting the bare minimum if you can afford to get something that plays your games fluidly for longer.



Absolutely not, I think crossfire/sli is rarely a good idea vs buying a brand better/single new card. You're misunderstanding me.

*makes up random examples*

Lets say today, I needed a 150 dollar video card that plays every game I could possibly want to play in the highest settings. But, theres a 350 dollar video card that has features I do not need today.

The question is.. Am I better off buying a 350 dollar card based on what it might do at some point in the future? Or am I better off 3 years down the road needing a video card upgrade to see what the 150 dollar cards in 3 years can do? Keep in mind in 3 years, my RAM, CPU, and motherboard will all be yesterday's news too. Got it?

Paying more than you need to for features you don't need is a waste of money.
a b B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:47:12 PM

Get the 7850 or 660 Ti (or 560 Ti if you can't wait) for your res. It will be fine.

Also, I did misunderstand what you were saying, nekulturny. I was thinking you meant to crossfire with another card in 3 years. My fault.

I suggest the OP looks at benchmarks from the site linked and elsewhere to determine which card can play his/her games at acceptable framerates. And I don't think he will find average framerates below 50 or 60 acceptable.

EDIT: Since he's not upgrading his monitor, not sure what card is best. Not calibrated for that res.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:49:33 PM

mortonww said:
Get the 7850 or 660 Ti (or 560 Ti if you can't wait) for your res. It will be fine.

Also, I did misunderstand what you were saying, nekulturny. I was thinking you meant to crossfire with another card in 3 years. My fault.

I suggest the OP looks at benchmarks from the site linked and elsewhere to determine which card can play his/her games at acceptable framerates. And I don't think he will find average framerates below 50 or 60 acceptable.

EDIT: Since he's not upgrading his monitor, not sure what card is best. Not calibrated for that res.



No problem, I misunderstand myself sometimes. :o 

April 8, 2012 9:57:18 PM

nekulturny said:
No problem, I misunderstand myself sometimes. :o 

If you can not tell the difference between 30 and 60fps than I would by that ^
April 8, 2012 9:57:26 PM

Well thanks guys, I hope this build comes out good! Ill probably stick with the 560ti
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 9:59:00 PM

MMO Fan said:
If you can not tell the difference between 30 and 60fps than I would by that ^


Maybe I should lol. But I'm not a heavy gamer, maybe thats my limitation eh? I run the Cinebench car chase thing, my card runs it at 45 FPS. looks perfectly fluid to me.
April 8, 2012 10:03:51 PM

nekulturny said:
Maybe I should lol. But I'm not a heavy gamer, maybe thats my limitation eh? I run the Cinebench car chase thing, my card runs it at 45 FPS. looks perfectly fluid to me.

How much DPi is your mouse ?
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 10:04:38 PM

MMO Fan said:
How much DPi is your mouse ?



I haven't the foggiest. 14.99 from walmart, I don't really like it, but at this current point in time, the significant other is the gamer between us.. He has the fancy expensive mouse.
April 8, 2012 10:08:21 PM

nekulturny said:
I haven't the foggiest.

Theres the issue then. Just so that you know there is a huge difference between 30fps and 60fps not so much what you see but how fast your mouse input reacts to what you see and it is the difference between a win and a loss online.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 10:11:02 PM

MMO Fan said:
Theres the issue then. Just so that you know there is a huge difference between 30fps and 60fps not so much what you see but how fast your mouse input reacts to what you see and it is the difference between a win and a loss online.


Well as far as the mouse.. http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/...

It says 1000dpi, I won't even pretend to know the implications of that..... LOL I'll take your word for it tho.
April 8, 2012 10:31:52 PM

nekulturny said:
"future proofing" is a concept that any respectable PC enthusiast needs to drop from their vocabulary.



I would say that "future proofing" should only apply to the PSU since thouse really don't change other than (insert new Color) of 80+ and maybe a higher wattage.

but, as for OP I would suggest a cheaper card or to wait. almost $400 for a 7870 doesn't seem worth it since for a little more you could get a HD7970 IMHO.


I would say go with a AMD build and save some money, unless you need/want to be on the top for a short amount of time with an Intel build.

I would give is stay away from the FX line if your just going to be gaming with your computer and maybe look at the HD 7770 or HD 7750 since my old HD 5750 ran BF3 just fine. all depends how much you want your games to look and what you can aford to spend.


Currently using:

mobo: Asus Sabertooth 990fx
CPU: Phenom2 975
RAM: 8gb of DDR3 (4gb x2) G. Skill ram @ 1600
GPU: XFX HD7970 black ed. (non Double disapation model)
OS: Windows 7 Ult. 64bit



I can tell you the Sabertooth is really nice 1st hand.
April 8, 2012 10:37:27 PM

Gundam288 said:
I would say that "future proofing" should only apply to the PSU since thouse really don't change other than (insert new Color) of 80+ and maybe a higher wattage.

but, as for OP I would suggest a cheaper card or to wait. almost $400 for a 7870 doesn't seem worth it since for a little more you could get a HD7970 IMHO.


I would say go with a AMD build and save some money, unless you need/want to be on the top for a short amount of time with an Intel build.

I would give is stay away from the FX line if your just going to be gaming with your computer and maybe look at the HD 7770 or HD 7750 since my old HD 5750 ran BF3 just fine. all depends how much you want your games to look and what you can aford to spend.


Currently using:

mobo: Asus Sabertooth 990fx
CPU: Phenom2 975
RAM: 8gb of DDR3 (4gb x2) G. Skill ram @ 1600
GPU: XFX HD7970 black ed. (non Double disapation model)
OS: Windows 7 Ult. 64bit



I can tell you the Sabertooth is really nice 1st hand.

First off the 7870 is $350 on Newegg and is a dam great deal considering it has the power of a GTX 580 that last month was over $500
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 10:41:40 PM

Gundam288 said:
I would say that "future proofing" should only apply to the PSU since thouse really don't change other than (insert new Color) of 80+ and maybe a higher wattage.

but, as for OP I would suggest a cheaper card or to wait. almost $400 for a 7870 doesn't seem worth it since for a little more you could get a HD7970 IMHO.


I would say go with a AMD build and save some money, unless you need/want to be on the top for a short amount of time with an Intel build.

I would give is stay away from the FX line if your just going to be gaming with your computer and maybe look at the HD 7770 or HD 7750 since my old HD 5750 ran BF3 just fine. all depends how much you want your games to look and what you can aford to spend.


Currently using:

mobo: Asus Sabertooth 990fx
CPU: Phenom2 975
RAM: 8gb of DDR3 (4gb x2) G. Skill ram @ 1600
GPU: XFX HD7970 black ed. (non Double disapation model)
OS: Windows 7 Ult. 64bit



I can tell you the Sabertooth is really nice 1st hand.


Definitely agree with the FX line, they are in desperate need of a stepping revision. And yes, the Asus Sabertooth is awesome.

As far as future proofing the case is fairly future proof.

Even PSUs in terms of wattage theres no reason to buy say a 1000 watt PSU for a future build if your current build only uses 400. Computer parts are becoming both more powerful and lower in their power requirements. We'll see that to continue.

, so are DVD/ROMs, although as of now, mine is rarely used. We have newer formats now like Blueray, but there are physical limitations to optical disks that render them pretty locked in. I cannot see blu-ray will becoming a standard for software disks. Optical disks will probably be completely obsoleted before that happens.


a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 10:42:38 PM

MMO Fan said:
First off the 7870 is $350 on Newegg and is a dam great deal considering it has the power of a GTX 580 that last month was over $500



Theres always a bigger, better, newer card coming out "soon". Trying to stay ahead of that race is a lost cause before you even get to the starting line.
April 8, 2012 10:51:18 PM

nekulturny said:
Theres always a bigger, better, newer card coming out "soon". Trying to stay ahead of that race is a lost cause before you even get to the starting line.

I don't know if it is a lost cause so long as you understand what you are getting into. I would say playing that game is foolish and costly just to say you have the latests and best gear. Really nobody cares at the end of the day so long as the end user is satisfied that what counts. Personally I am happy and content with 60fps min with Vsynch on and I am most happy when I can pay as little as possible to meet that goal across the games I frequent.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 8, 2012 11:08:12 PM

MMO Fan said:
I don't know if it is a lost cause so long as you understand what you are getting into. I would say playing that game is foolish and costly just to say you have the latests and best gear. Really nobody cares at the end of the day so long as the end user is satisfied that what counts. Personally I am happy and content with 60fps min with Vsynch on and I am most happy when I can pay as little as possible to meet that goal across the games I frequent.



We have people like that on this forum though lol. I don't envy those who are financially fortunate, although sometimes it reminds me of high school, my car is newer, shiner and faster than yours! Yea, but the difference is I work 40 hours a week to pay for mine and you had mommy and daddy buy yours. :lol: 

But you're right, the end user's opinion is what matters. The only time I really take issue on this forum is when people ask for a build that provides acceptable gameplay and someone comes in and says "no you need to buy X Y and Z that costs more than the persons stated budget and offers no substantial advantage.
April 8, 2012 11:17:30 PM

nekulturny said:
We have people like that on this forum though lol. I don't envy those who are financially fortunate, although sometimes it reminds me of high school, my car is newer, shiner and faster than yours! Yea, but the difference is I work 40 hours a week to pay for mine and you had mommy and daddy buy yours. :lol: 

But you're right, the end user's opinion is what matters. The only time I really take issue on this forum is when people ask for a build that provides acceptable gameplay and someone comes in and says "no you need to buy X Y and Z that costs more than the persons stated budget and offers no substantial advantage.

True Freedom is when you have nothing left to lose. I will never again be a slave to the creditors for material things and to have all the latest and greatest that to me is a foolish game to play and the reason why the American Empire has fallen. I by good *** but i also pay cash in full and my GTX 275 is still kick around in my rig today priced paid for it $80 dollars USED LOL strait to the bank errr edit Steam store LOL.
a b B Homebuilt system
April 9, 2012 12:18:41 AM

hi. I build gaming systems (100+ so far).

My advice is:

1) i5-2500K ("k" to overclock. very important)
2) Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock 1155 motherboard with PCIe v3 support.
example: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63945&vpn=Z68%20Extrem...
3) wait for the GTX670 (use built-in graphics while you wait)
4) 2x4GB 1600MHz G. Skill (or similar)
5) Antec ONE case
6) Antec PSU: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59339&vpn=EA650Green&m...

(or similar Power Supply, but don't skimp on quality.)

7) CPU HSF: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=41337&vpn=RR-B10-212P-...

*some points to consider:
- PCIE v3 for motherboard (You can buy a motherboard for $150 that has PCIe v3 so get it.)
- USB3 (on motherboard front panel connectors, AND on the case)
- uATX vs ATX (get a full ATX motherboard and case. uATX is slightly smaller but has less card slots in case you want to add a sound card, PCIe SSD etc.)

- CPU (the best value is the i5-2500K by far. If you doubt, compare gaming benchmarks for CPU's)

OPTIONAL (AUDIO):
- Speakers/sound card. (I have the M-Audio AV40 desktop stereo speakers. The AV30's are cheaper and almost as good. The Auzentech Forte X-Fi is a great sound card. Don't spend more than $60 for stereo desktop speakers with onboard audio or $100 for 2.1.

other sound issues:
- make sure OFF switch on speakers is easily accessible (not on subwoofer)
- subwoofer (i.e. 2.1) vibrates the floor a lot and the sound carries. Make sure that's not an issue (that's why I got the AV40's, they don't have a subwoofer but do have 4" drivers for good bass.)
- 5.1 headphones are basically useless. get good stereo ones.
- *get a front auxiliary input so you can plug in an iPod or similar without PC running using a 3.5mm M->M cable (headphone jack)
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 9, 2012 12:39:55 AM

photonboy said:
hi. I build gaming systems (100+ so far).

My advice is:

1) i5-2500K ("k" to overclock. very important)
2) Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock 1155 motherboard with PCIe v3 support.
example: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63945&vpn=Z68%20Extrem...
3) wait for the GTX670 (use built-in graphics while you wait)
4) 2x4GB 1600MHz G. Skill (or similar)
5) Antec ONE case
6) Antec PSU: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59339&vpn=EA650Green&m...

(or similar Power Supply, but don't skimp on quality.)

7) CPU HSF: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=41337&vpn=RR-B10-212P-...

*some points to consider:
- PCIE v3 for motherboard (You can buy a motherboard for $150 that has PCIe v3 so get it.)
- USB3 (on motherboard front panel connectors, AND on the case)
- uATX vs ATX (get a full ATX motherboard and case. uATX is slightly smaller but has less card slots in case you want to add a sound card, PCIe SSD etc.)

- CPU (the best value is the i5-2500K by far. If you doubt, compare gaming benchmarks for CPU's)

OPTIONAL (AUDIO):
- Speakers/sound card. (I have the M-Audio AV40 desktop stereo speakers. The AV30's are cheaper and almost as good. The Auzentech Forte X-Fi is a great sound card. Don't spend more than $60 for stereo desktop speakers with onboard audio or $100 for 2.1.

other sound issues:
- make sure OFF switch on speakers is easily accessible (not on subwoofer)
- subwoofer (i.e. 2.1) vibrates the floor a lot and the sound carries. Make sure that's not an issue (that's why I got the AV40's, they don't have a subwoofer but do have 4" drivers for good bass.)
- 5.1 headphones are basically useless. get good stereo ones.
- *get a front auxiliary input so you can plug in an iPod or similar without PC running using a 3.5mm M->M cable (headphone jack)


Wait for a video card? LOL, this is what I'm talking about. The GTX 670 may or may not perform very well. Look at all the hype from AMD Bulldozer, look how well that panned out. Buy something thats on the market now that is known to perform well, does not require months of driver updates to iron out the nitty gritty.


a b B Homebuilt system
April 9, 2012 12:43:08 AM

Quote:
Wait for a video card? LOL, this is what I'm talking about. The GTX 670 may or may not perform very well. Look at all the hype from AMD Bulldozer, look how well that panned out. Buy something thats on the market now that is known to perform well, does not require months of driver updates to iron out the nitty gritty


Not the same thing. The GTX 680 is already out and benchmarked. The 670 is the same architecture with a few cores disabled.

That being said, it's overkill for 1280x1024
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 9, 2012 12:52:04 AM

mortonww said:
Quote:
Wait for a video card? LOL, this is what I'm talking about. The GTX 670 may or may not perform very well. Look at all the hype from AMD Bulldozer, look how well that panned out. Buy something thats on the market now that is known to perform well, does not require months of driver updates to iron out the nitty gritty


Not the same thing. The GTX 680 is already out and benchmarked. The 670 is the same architecture with a few cores disabled.

That being said, it's overkill for 1280x1024



And is the 680 substantially better than the 580? I'd like to see the benchmarks, I am a clean slate, I honestly haven't seen them, but that would be interesting to see.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
April 9, 2012 1:04:38 AM




Looks like it is, but not decisively enough that if I were in the market for a computer build today that I would suffer with onboard graphics until May so I could buy a 570 (which looks like the supposed release date- which is of course not set in stone)

We come back to that unwinnable race argument.
!