First build ever, trying not to go over $800

[sinister8102]

Hello, as the title says, yes, this is going to be my first computer build ever! I'm pretty excited about it yet a little overwhelmed by all of the options, all while trying to stay on a budget. I'm planning to use this computer for gaming (Diablo 3, Starcraft, Minecraft, BF3, Crysis, etc) internet, playing videos, editing game play videos, and work stuff. I've managed to compile a list of the parts that i'm thinking about getting. So here it is!

CPU- i5-3750k ivy bridge (when comes out)

Mobo-MSI Z77A-G45 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130645

GPU- sapphire Radeon HD 6870 1GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102948

PSU- OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018

case- NZXT Guardian 921 or Thermaltake Chaser MK-I
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133191

Memory-CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345

Things i already have-
-mouse
-keyboard
-monitor
-Hard Drive (Seagate Barracuda 250gb)
-OS (Vista business or windows 7 if my friend has an extra)


Now here are my concerns...
1-Since the Radeon HD 6870 used PCI e2.0 and my mobo has PCI e3.0, will they still work together at 3.0 speed?
2-I want to have this computer available for upgrades and/or OC (later on I'm thinking dual GPU's) but will the PSU be enough, also if there is a better PSU, plz give links if so.
3-I doubt my Hard drive is enough, so i'd like a SSD to go with it, how much space should i get? i was thinking 120gb (im on a budget remember )
4-If I OC what is a good heatsink? (I don't really trust water cooling considering 1 leak=DOOM! and its expensive)
5-Are those case good? heard the thermaltake's power button can be flawed sometimes, but how is airflow and build quality?

I think that is it so far, tell me if i need anything else for this build or have any recommendations on parts that i should change. Also, any build advice would be much appreciated since it is my first build. Thanks!

 

[sharkbyte5150]

A 120GB SSD is plenty big enough (but that's easy to say when I have a 1.5TB storage drive).
The most popular heatsink is Hyper 212 EVO or 212 + and it's very inexpensive.
Cooler Master HAF series are the most popular and well-reviewed cases on NewEgg besides the Antec 900 right now (HAF = high air flow).

I don't believe your GPU will run at 3.0 speed.
PCI-e3.0x16 is backwards compatible, but won't boost the speed of a 2.0 or 2.1 card to 3.0 (any objections to this statement are welcome, I'm curious too).

For motherboard, ASROck is a more popular and well-reviewed brand and you'd get better performance, especially for OC'ing on the Extreme4.

 

[aznshinobi]

All PCI is backwards compatible. But something to keep in mind. You could probably make do with a board that isn't the Z77 chipset. Mainly because Z77 only brings native USB 3.0 to the table and sure there is PCI 3.0 support but only with an Ivy Bridge chip and Gen3 already does that.

Check out my $850 here:
http://www.squidoo.com/electronicandmore
Since you already have a HDD it only totals to $806 roughly. You can always just switch the i5 2500K to the i5 3750K. The Asrock Extreme3 Gen3 Z68 is a more than capable board, cheap to that can use PCI 3.0 and still has many capabilities.

 

[sinister8102]

I was REALLY looking into the ASRock Extreme 3 mobo, but since it was the z68 chipset, i did not think it would support IB. That is really good to know that it does, because i'm definitely going to get that mobo now. I'm on a budget now but would it be better to really invest in a high end video card now or to just get, say a 6870 now, then later on i could get a 2nd one using Crossfire if i wanted? which setup would perform better (one really good or 2 mid-range GPU's)? Another thing that i just recently thought of, since IB is coming out will SB prices lower at all? if so i think i would just get a i5-2500k for a little bit less and it is still a fantastic CPU! aznshinobi, nice set up!, however is there a modular or semi-modular PSU that you could recommend? if not, that's ok.

 

[azeem40]

It supports it, but you won't gain the benefits of IB with it.

 

[aznshinobi]

I would go with a high end card like the 7850 or 7870 now. The 6870 is being discontinued like the rest of the 6xxx the supplies will dwindle and it'll be hard for you to find another 6870 to Crossfire with. The 7850 is basically a 6950 in my book, performance is pretty much equivalent. But don't think that's all to it, the 7850 has better temps, power consumption, lower noise and etc.

Get the i5 2500K it'll last, IB is only really bringing the support for PCI 3.0 (even then the PCI 2.0 bottleneck on PCI 3.0 cards isn't really that much) and native USB 3.0 which also isn't a HUGE deal, though it makes for lower motherboard prices. Though as Panther Point just released prices are inflated.

IB actually does bring higher (slightly) performance, lower temps and power consumption Azeem. Not enough to justify an upgrade, but maybe if you were buying at that time.

PSU, I'd go modular just to cable manage, but if don't care about how the case looks inside. Go non-modular is fine. "semi" is really vague as that's the wording Antec uses and it just has like 2 cables that are modular.

 

[ddan49]

I was REALLY looking into the ASRock Extreme 3 mobo, but since it was the z68 chipset, i did not think it would support IB. That is really good to know that it does, because i'm definitely going to get that mobo now. I'm on a budget now but would it be better to really invest in a high end video card now or to just get, say a 6870 now, then later on i could get a 2nd one using Crossfire if i wanted? which setup would perform better (one really good or 2 mid-range GPU's)? Another thing that i just recently thought of, since IB is coming out will SB prices lower at all? if so i think i would just get a i5-2500k for a little bit less and it is still a fantastic CPU! aznshinobi, nice set up!, however is there a modular or semi-modular PSU that you could recommend? if not, that's ok.

NO!!!!! Get the ASRock Extreme4 mobo... it's the Z77 edition of the Extreme3! A 6870 isn't really "high-end" ... a GTX 560 Ti would be ideal (or a 7850, but that's getting really pricey). One really good GPU performs much better than 2 mid-range, because the one single one doesn't have any problems with the two getting too hot, or not calibrating to each other correctly.

 

[aznshinobi]

Disagree. Z77 brings nothing but native USB and seeing the benchmarks it gives slightly more performance, $18 difference though with a tight budget. It's better spent on the GPU. That's the difference from a 560 Ti to getting close to a 7850.

And, actually that is false. The 2x6850 didn't have huge heat issues and drivers issues in the end. But it beat out a single 580 for far less cost and heat. It's like how 2x7850's will run cool as hell and beat out a single 680 by a margin.

 

[ddan49]

Are you sure? I've always heard everywhere that Z77 is the best motherboard for IB... anyway, I do know that Z68 might not support the next generation (the "tock"), whereas the Z77 surely will... the Z77 is going to last longer.

Two GPUs running side-by-side usually generate quite a bit of heat... especially when you only have two slots, and you can't space them out. I was assuming he meant a single GPU or two mid-range GPUs that, combined, had the same performance as the single GPU. Of course 2x7850s will beat a 680... but I don't think they'll be all that cool.

 

[azeem40]

I would go with a high end card like the 7850 or 7870 now. The 6870 is being discontinued like the rest of the 6xxx the supplies will dwindle and it'll be hard for you to find another 6870 to Crossfire with. The 7850 is basically a 6950 in my book, performance is pretty much equivalent. But don't think that's all to it, the 7850 has better temps, power consumption, lower noise and etc.

Get the i5 2500K it'll last, IB is only really bringing the support for PCI 3.0 (even then the PCI 2.0 bottleneck on PCI 3.0 cards isn't really that much) and native USB 3.0 which also isn't a HUGE deal, though it makes for lower motherboard prices. Though as Panther Point just released prices are inflated.

IB actually does bring higher (slightly) performance, lower temps and power consumption Azeem. Not enough to justify an upgrade, but maybe if you were buying at that time.

PSU, I'd go modular just to cable manage, but if don't care about how the case looks inside. Go non-modular is fine. "semi" is really vague as that's the wording Antec uses and it just has like 2 cables that are modular.

I know IB brings all that too. I wasn't born yesterday. Also, if he is deciding on getting IB, why tell him otherwise? It's not like he is making a stupid decision. IB will release at the same prices SB did, so I see no reason not to get IB.

 

[sharkbyte5150]

I think overall the idea behind going Z77 is to have the latest and greatest, but the Gen3 Z68 boards SHOULD support Ivy Bridge. Obviously if mobo manufacturers are able to make Z77 boards, they know the specifics of Ivy Bridge and the Gen3 boards say they support Ivy Bridge and Z77 boards say they support 32nm (SB) and 22nm (IB) CPU's. I'm betting the benchmarks will show a much bigger difference between Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPU's vs. Z68 to Z77 boards using Ivy Bridge.

 

[ddan49]

I always thought that semi-modular were the best (never used any, though). Some cables don't need to be detachable, and modular always has the risk of a cable coming loose. Just try to keep most of the cables behind the motherboard in the back of the case (not in the middle of your components), so as to not restrict airflow.

 

[sharkbyte5150]

The Seasonic semi-modular I have is great, everything feels like it plugs in solid, nothing feels loose at all. The cables can be a bit stiff but the only one that really gives any trouble is the CPU power, but now that I've used modular, I'll never go back!

 

[azeem40]

I think overall the idea behind going Z77 is to have the latest and greatest, but the Gen3 Z68 boards SHOULD support Ivy Bridge. Obviously if mobo manufacturers are able to make Z77 boards, they know the specifics of Ivy Bridge and the Gen3 boards say they support Ivy Bridge and Z77 boards say they support 32nm (SB) and 22nm (IB) CPU's. I'm betting the benchmarks will show a much bigger difference between Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPU's vs. Z68 to Z77 boards using Ivy Bridge.

The CPU is what will make IB consume less power, not the motherboard. You still need both to reap all the benefits of IB.

 

[sinister8102]

-If i get the IB then I think I will get the i5-3750k or i5-3450...i am still not sure if i am going to OC, if i don't OC, i think the 3450 would be better for my budget. If i do OC i hear the 3750k will handle it better (correct me if i am wrong). Is there even much different between the two? (not much info is out ik, but im guessing the relation its similar to the 2500k and the 2400)

-That Radeon HD 7850 looks pretty good, (been watching reviews and looking at benchmarks) and it has PCI 3.0 speed, better temps etc etc, but the price would be hard to fit in my budget... Hmmmmm...is there a GPU that matched the 6870 in performance and price but with 3.0?

Still debating over what mobo to get, im sure it is going to be an ASRock mobo but z77 or z68 etc...idk yet

 

[sharkbyte5150]

For OC'ing, you need one of the CPU's with "K" in the name, they're unlocked and meant for that. The boards for Z77 are already out so if you're going to wait for IVB CPU, just get a Z77 board to go with it. ASUS P8Z77-V Pro (or non Pro) or ASRock Z77 Extreme4 will probably be two of the most popular boards once IVB CPU's start selling.

 

[aznshinobi]

The i5 3750K will give you the ability to overclock if you ever chose, and yes the 3450 and 3750K relationship is like the i5 2400 and i5 2500K.

As for the 6870, no there isn't. The 7770 is closest but still lacks, only after overclocking does the 7770 reach the 6870. TBH what you shouldn't be looking at is the sockets all too much. Z68 supports IB just fine and Gen3 will still give you PCI 3.0. Just go with the Asrock Extreme3 Gen3 Z68 to save money.

PCI 2.0 isn't even fully saturated, PCI 3.0 doesn't give the huge performance gain, it is the chip architecture itself.

I'd go with the Asrock Extreme3 Gen3 Z68, i5 3750K (if same pricing), 7850. Spend more now so you don't have to spend it later. Though that's just me.

 

[azeem40]

I respectfully disagree. IB will do to PCIe 3.0 what X79 did to PCIe 3.0: full support and saturation.

 

[aznshinobi]

Your statement makes no sense? "IB will do to PCIe 3.0 what X79 did to PCIe 3.0: full support and saturation."

X79 hasn't been released yet, and if you meant what I said with Gen3 will still give him PCI 3.0. It's true, Gen3 isn't technically "full" PCIe 3.0, but pretty close. Close enough that the difference is hardly noticeable. In fact from a PCI 2.0 to a PCI 3.0 slot using a 7xxx or 6xx the difference wouldn't be that noticeable at all.

As for your talk about saturation. That is not true. Even now we do not fully use up all of PCI 2.0's potential. There is no way X79 would bring full saturation to PCI 3.0 when we can't even use up all of PCI 2.0 with Ivy Bridge.

 

[quilciri]

The build is very unbalanced for gaming right now (so are 95% of the builds on these forums, though) For games, you want your CPU and your video card to top out around the same time, neither one bottlenecking the other. In the current build, your video card will run out of juice eons before your processor does.

Fomr your list of criteria, gaming is the most processor intensive thing you're going to be doing. A Pentium G860 paired with a HD 7850 will give you a ton better gaming performance than a 3750k/6870.
Socket 1155 chip, so you can swap it out down the road if you feel the need. Lot cheaper than buying a 2500k and swapping that out, esp. since you don't need the processing muscle for anything.

*really, you could even drop down to a G630 and still get the full benefit of a 7850.

 

[quilciri]

Even now we do not fully use up all of PCI 2.0's potential. There is no way X79 would bring full saturation to PCI 3.0 when we can't even use up all of PCI 2.0 with Ivy Bridge.

That is not true. When you have a pci-e 2.0 motherboard with 3 or 4 pci-e 16x slots, 2 of those slots (on a 3 slots) or all of them on a 4 slot only have 4 lanes to use. This hampers high end video cards. In fact, the 6770's I use are about the fastest card you can use in a 4 lane pci-e slot without significant degradation.

 

[sharkbyte5150]

The CPU is what will make IB consume less power, not the motherboard. You still need both to reap all the benefits of IB.

We're talking about two completely different things.
I'm saying you will not see a huge difference running the same Ivy Bridge CPU on Z68 vs. Z77.
You're talking about power consumption and "the CPU is what will make IB consume less power" makes no sense, the CPU IS Ivy Bridge and it sounds like you're saying motherboards will change the CPU's power consumption.

 

[aznshinobi]

The build is very unbalanced for gaming right now (so are 95% of the builds on these forums, though) For games, you want your CPU and your video card to top out around the same time, neither one bottlenecking the other. In the current build, your video card will run out of juice eons before your processor does.

Fomr your list of criteria, gaming is the most processor intensive thing you're going to be doing. A Pentium G860 paired with a HD 7850 will give you a ton better gaming performance than a 3750k/6870.
Socket 1155 chip, so you can swap it out down the road if you feel the need. Lot cheaper than buying a 2500k and swapping that out, esp. since you don't need the processing muscle for anything.

*really, you could even drop down to a G630 and still get the full benefit of a 7850.

Instead of assuming what you are saying applies to the OP, read his post first. OP is editing videos, gameplay videos which would be 1920x1080 and if he's using any hefty editing program like Premiere Pro, it'll be in need of the i5 xxxx.

Also Quil, I was arguing that we don't make use of all of PCI 2.0 so how can we make use of all of PCI 3.0 now?

What you are arguing has nothing to do with what I'm referring to right now. You're talking about multiple cards. I'm referring to just one, on one slot. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

As for what I'm talking about: http://www.overclock.net/t/1188376/hardwarecanucks-hd-7970-pci-e-3-0-vs-pci-e-2-0-comparison
A "PCI 3.0" card on a PCI 2.0 slot and PCI 3.0 slot using the Gen3 switching on the Asus ROG board I believe. It had no effect at all. So a conclusion can be simple, either PCI 2.0 still has juice left that we haven't used, or we're not close to utilizing all of PCI 3.0

 

[quilciri]

Instead of assuming what you are saying applies to the OP, read his post first. OP is editing videos, gameplay videos which would be 1920x1080 and if he's using any hefty editing program like Premiere Pro, it'll be in need of the i5 xxxx.

...*sigh*You're making the assumption here. You don't have enough information to go on as far as video editing. I made a guesstimation that he would be using Fraps or a similar capture program to record and the end format would be an easily converted to format (for online posting). Given that the majority of video editing, especially of gameplay footage, is for online posting, I made an educated guess.

But thank you for pointing out that we could use more information on the video editing part.

There is no simple rule saying that if you edit X, you need Y hardware. If his end format is AVCHD or RED 4K, then I would agree with you. Being that video editing wasn't anywhere near the top of his criteria, I doubt this. Converting an HDV 1080 video to HDV 720, DV, or even easier format doesn't require anywhere near as much processing horsepower.

While more physical and logical cores, more ram, a bigger L3 cache, and a CUDA based card would all help with video editing, unless it's the main purpose of the build, you'd be better off scaling back several of those things...

If I remember right, fraps records with no GOP structure in uncompressed formats, which will puts a heftier burden on storage and memory than the CPU.

 

[quilciri]

What you are arguing has nothing to do with what I'm referring to right now. You're talking about multiple cards. I'm referring to just one, on one slot. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

You're right here, sorry about that. It sounded like you were making a blanket statement.