Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

E10/E20 shutter life

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
June 18, 2005 10:13:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Some time ago there was a discussion labelled "E10/E20 has a VERY short
shutter life". Apparently in an Olympus FAQ a MTBF of 20000 was
reported for the shutter. Some authors believed that there was a "0"
missing. The issue was not resolved in that thread and the links (to
the FAQ) don't work anymore.

Is 20000 a realistic number? Is it still provided by Olympus
publications? By now there should be many E10/E20 owners with shutter
problems (like me) - or has everybody moved on to newer technology?

Oskar von dem Hagen

More about : e10 e20 shutter life

Anonymous
June 18, 2005 6:04:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:13:56 -0700, Oskar wrote:

> Some time ago there was a discussion labelled "E10/E20 has a VERY short
> shutter life". Apparently in an Olympus FAQ a MTBF of 20000 was
> reported for the shutter. Some authors believed that there was a "0"
> missing. The issue was not resolved in that thread and the links (to
> the FAQ) don't work anymore.
>
> Is 20000 a realistic number? Is it still provided by Olympus
> publications? By now there should be many E10/E20 owners with shutter
> problems (like me) - or has everybody moved on to newer technology?
>
> Oskar von dem Hagen
Why not ask Olympus?

--
neil
delete delete to reply
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 11:55:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

There are instances where the shutter has gone out at less than 20,000
and many where they are still operating at 80,000 plus.

I don't think it was ever a big deal but it is one thing that does
happen but at highly random intervals. Of course now it is not covered
by the warranty (uness you purchased extended) so when and or if it does
happen it will cost (last I knew about $200. USD).

Ed O



Oskar wrote:
> Some time ago there was a discussion labelled "E10/E20 has a VERY short
> shutter life". Apparently in an Olympus FAQ a MTBF of 20000 was
> reported for the shutter. Some authors believed that there was a "0"
> missing. The issue was not resolved in that thread and the links (to
> the FAQ) don't work anymore.
>
> Is 20000 a realistic number? Is it still provided by Olympus
> publications? By now there should be many E10/E20 owners with shutter
> problems (like me) - or has everybody moved on to newer technology?
>
> Oskar von dem Hagen
>
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 6:57:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

EdO wrote:

> There are instances where the shutter has gone out at less than 20,000
> and many where they are still operating at 80,000 plus.
>
> I don't think it was ever a big deal but it is one thing that does
> happen but at highly random intervals. Of course now it is not covered
> by the warranty (uness you purchased extended) so when and or if it does
> happen it will cost (last I knew about $200. USD).

So how do you know how many shutter clicks you have used?

Gary Eickmeier
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 12:53:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

EdO <em3h4@yahoo.com> wrote in news:42B4EC9A.4000809@yahoo.com:

> There are instances where the shutter has gone out at less than 20,000
> and many where they are still operating at 80,000 plus.

Of course, that is why there is the concept on MTBF - _mean_ time between
failures. Single instances don't matter much here.

--
Matti Vuori, <http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/mvuori/index-e.htm&gt;
June 21, 2005 9:11:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

MBTF means the expected value of shutter failure is 20000. My 25000 are
close to the expectation.

If I had known this number (the expected value), I wouldn't have bought
the camera - definitely. 20000 cycles and a fixed lens - what a waste.
Once Olympus ends support for the E10 it's just a pile of garbage.

I had loved the camera while working with it. But the love has cooled
down considerably.

Oskar von dem Hagen
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 10:56:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 21 Jun 2005 05:11:45 -0700, "Oskar" <garbage@vondemhagen.de> wrote:

>MBTF means the expected value of shutter failure is 20000. My 25000 are
>close to the expectation.
>
>If I had known this number (the expected value), I wouldn't have bought
>the camera - definitely. 20000 cycles and a fixed lens - what a waste.
>Once Olympus ends support for the E10 it's just a pile of garbage.
>
>I had loved the camera while working with it. But the love has cooled
>down considerably.
>
>Oskar von dem Hagen

It should be understood that statistics that concern a population can
not be brought down to the level of an individual within that
population.
IOW, MTBF has little to do with how long *your* device will last.

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 7:20:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 21 Jun 2005 05:11:45 -0700, "Oskar" <garbage@vondemhagen.de> wrote:

>MBTF means the expected value of shutter failure is 20000. My 25000 are
>close to the expectation.
>
>If I had known this number (the expected value), I wouldn't have bought
>the camera - definitely. 20000 cycles and a fixed lens - what a waste.
>Once Olympus ends support for the E10 it's just a pile of garbage.
>
>I had loved the camera while working with it. But the love has cooled
>down considerably.
>
>Oskar von dem Hagen

My Canon Powershot A10 had "problems" with the zoom after
about 16,000 pictures. The camera continued to work OK at
the wide angle setting, but couldn't make accurate exposure
at the telephoto end. Thanks to having a two year warranty,
I got the price paid back and with another $100 got an A60.

However, comparing this to my life time experience with film
cameras, I wouldn't expect any of them except for the heavy
duty professional models to take more than about 10,000
pictures before it's "toss time". With relatively "cheap" P&S
cameras, the "life" is probably quite a bit less. I've had two
Canon Sureshots and both had problems develop with their
metering systems before running more than a couple dozen
rolls through them. With other film cameras it was the film
winding gear train that was the problem, something of course
that isn't a problem with digitals. Overall, number of pictures,
digitals are probably more reliable than their film counterparts.

Jerome Bigge
Member, Muskegon Astronomical Society
Author of the "Warlady" & "Wartime" series.
Download at "http://members.tripod.com/~jbigge"
June 22, 2005 9:09:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bill Funk wrote:
>
> It should be understood that statistics that concern a population can
> not be brought down to the level of an individual within that
> population.
> IOW, MTBF has little to do with how long *your* device will last.

MTBF=20000 means 20000 is the *best* prediction of a failure for *any*
E10. Of course, some have a longer, some a shorter time to failure. But
a rational decision to buy such a camera should be based on this
prediction (expected value).

Oskar von dem Hagen
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 1:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 22 Jun 2005 05:09:25 -0700, "Oskar" <garbage@vondemhagen.de> wrote:

>Bill Funk wrote:
>>
>> It should be understood that statistics that concern a population can
>> not be brought down to the level of an individual within that
>> population.
>> IOW, MTBF has little to do with how long *your* device will last.
>
>MTBF=20000 means 20000 is the *best* prediction of a failure for *any*
>E10.

I don't think so.
A MTBF is a measure of the lifetime of a device or object in a
population. A single sample of thaty population doesn't have a MTBF.
it will fail when it fails.
It's not a prediction of failure for any one sample of that device at
all. That statistic simply can not be brought to any one sample; it's
a measurement of the life of the total population.
As well, it should be understood that MTBF is a measurement made by
the manufaturer under what they consider to be "normal" conditions.
That measurement is used as a selling point, and as such, should be
looked at carefully to ensure that we are not taken in by any promise
it appears to make.
>Of course, some have a longer, some a shorter time to failure. But
>a rational decision to buy such a camera should be based on this
>prediction (expected value).

Well, a rational decision should certainy *include* this measurement,
as well as other manufacturer-supplied measurements (such as the
number of shots the included battery will allow, or how many shots
will fit on a memory cars of any given size). But these measurements
need to be understood to be used as selling points (read:
advertisements), and are, understandably, meant to present the device
in the best possible light.
This means that I understand that the figures given for these traits
are not necessarilly going to match what *I* will get, because the
expectation that my use will match the manufacturer's carefully
crafted use, designed to get the best performance, doesn't exist.
IOW, MTBF figures are all well and good, but they don't apply to the
device I buy, except as a general guide. I don't "expect" to get the
number of shutter clicks the MTBF describes; instead, I expect that
most of the population of these devices, as a whole, will probably get
that number of clicks before it fails. The device I get, however, can
fail right out of the box, or it may serve faithfully for many years,
far beyond the MTBF. In an individual of a popluation, the statistics
that are gleaned from the entire population can not predict anything.
Hoiw does a couple have 2.4 children?
>
>Oskar von dem Hagen

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
!