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7970 Crossfire BF3 issues

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 8, 2012 4:33:07 PM

so I was kinda expecting a bit better performance out of my setup, with 2x 7970s, I want to know what are some of the most optimal settings people have been setting their BF3 in console commands to get their max FPS with still having it look amazing, Also 1 thing I notice, when I set the FPS limit to 60 FPS in game (When I lower the settings) , it does not seem like 60FPS on my screen, 90FPS moves more fluid when I set it to that, but note, that i only have 60hz 25.5inch ASUS vw266h monitors, so technically there shouldnt be a noticable difference there.

My FPS screens were showing microstuttering on the side monitors, so I had to disable it a bit by, renderdevice.triplebuffering 0
also tried renderdevice.forcerenderaheadlimit 1, vsync is disabled, motionblur is disabled, lasted update is installed, BF3 currently I have to set at High settings with AA/MSAA HSO all off to get frames that I want with 3 monitors, but it seems people are getting better frames than I am or no Microstuttering/screentearing issues on the side monitors. my PC setup should be in my sig, but if not, ill post that as well.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2239124

I have yet to try overclocking my card because I've only ever done CPU overclocking in the past and would need to look into it. but was hoping I wouldn't have to do that.

Any other tweaks or stuff I may be able to do to enable higher FPS with still looking beautiful and running fluid (not Vsyncish fluid, but you get the idea)

Also some other settings I have enabled with my FXAA injector as well

WorldRender.SpotLightShadowmapResolution 256
WorldRender.SpotLightShadowmapEnable 0
RenderDevice.TripleBufferingEnable 0
RenderDevice.ForceRenderAheadLimit 1
WorldRender.DxDeferredCsPathEnable 0
WorldRender.TransparencyShadowmapsEnable 0
WorldRender.MotionBlurEnable 0
render.drawfps 1
WorldRender.FxaaEnable 1
gametime.maxvariablefps 80

Any help would be greatly appreciated, wanted to get my moneys worth with these 2x 7970s, really love this game (As you can tell) so wanted to get this to work as best as possible.
February 8, 2012 4:35:06 PM

If vsync is disabled then your refresh rate doesn't matter. why even set a limit?
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 4:40:59 PM

you have 1920x1200 monitor and CF 7970...no comment
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Related resources
a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 4:44:54 PM

whats your cpu? bottlenecking?
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February 8, 2012 5:48:38 PM

@tab54o, without limiting the Frames, I still get screen tearing because monitors are only at 60Hz so anything above 60FPS is suppose to tear, as well as makes the graphic card work harder during those issues, there are times Ill get above 110FPS at high settings in a small inclosed room, then i get out in the open and frames drop down to 50ish, this prevents the card from working harder in the small room at the time then it has to as well as provides a more fluid visual. when I was running on 1 monitor at max settings, i was able to get around 120+ FPS but only having a 60hz monitor, it looked really choppy because the screen images would skip ahead because before finishing 1 image, it would already be processing the next image to be displayed. if I could find a good large 25+ 16x10 monitor that had 120hz, believe me, I would swap these out in a heart beat to capitalize on those visuals

@maxinexus, why the no comment?

@alvine, the CPU is a 2500k OCed to 4.2GHz
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 6:07:21 PM

I think he is saying that @ 1920x1200 the CF is wasted, but he's only mentioning 1 monitor. So maybe he missed the part of you running 3?

Those cards overclock like the Core i5/i7 K series does, very easily. I've heard up to 1300mhz on air. But I'd say 1100 would be easy like 4.2 on the i5 2500K
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 6:34:50 PM

True to that ...I fly by without reading it all...:D  my bad

Try to switch HDMI cables around...see what happens it might just work.
I used to have 3 monitors as well but it never worked the way I wanted.
that is why I got one 30" and all issues solved :) 

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February 8, 2012 6:57:02 PM

well, right now im using DVI cables, should i use HDMI? I heard it was pretty much the same
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February 8, 2012 6:59:36 PM

other than sound transfer obviously
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 7:03:19 PM

Hmm I was running BF3 at Medium with a few settings at High, 5760x1080 and averaged around 45-50 fps, and for the most part it was very smooth. You have basically 4x the GPU power so I'd expect a little better experience (I have CF 5850s)...

I did hear from another thread that when you run DP and DVI off a 7970, the DVI can get some tearing. I don't know what the deal is with that.

I'm curious how/what FXAA injector you're using. Obviously it has to be "custom" since AMD doesn't support that the way Nvidia does.

Anyway to the issue at hand, are you using 12.1 or 12.2? Or other? AFAIK you want 12.1 for now. And the CAP.
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 8:18:28 PM

You should probably just get the drivers and CAP from AMD's site, but yeah that is the newest one.
http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win...

As for all those other tweaks, have you tried just running the game at stock? I'm especially wary that all his tweaks are using Nvidia specific software.

http://www.geforce.com/Optimize/Guides/battlefield-3-tw...
This is a great guide on what all the performance options do, without any emphasis on Nvidia software.

Also, are you running that borderless window tweak? Please tell me you aren't.
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February 8, 2012 8:20:45 PM

nah, I have to tab out and stuff and it minimizes like normal, only game I play borderless windows are RTS/MOBA/MMOs not FPS
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 8:26:22 PM

Ok. Because windowed mode disables crossfire.
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February 8, 2012 8:44:48 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/Alvis1/Screensho...

this is my FPS and my overlay with max settings at an average area in the map, 47, not too bad, but not what im looking for.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/Alvis1/Screensho...

This is my FPS and overlay at High settings with AA/MXAA and HBSO turned off, now its staying at a stable 59FPS (i do 59 because i currently have vsync enabled and its suppose to have no input lag if you set to 1 FPS below your monitors FPS) and its okay, but was looking for more tweaks and such so I can run it at Ultra settings without disabling HBSO and AA/MXAA.
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 9:17:34 PM

Ok... so what is the problem?

EDIT: Actually maybe that is low. I've seen reports these cards scale nearly 100% now, and HARDOCP got a single 7970 at max settings, 5760x1080, running at 38.6 avg, 28 min, 60 max. So in theory you should get as much as 77.2 avg at Ultra...
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/12/22/amd_radeon_hd_797...


I'd definitely suggest running BF3 at stock settings again. I think your console command tweaks are messing it up.
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February 8, 2012 9:21:12 PM

is it not possible on my current setup to have a steady FPS of 60FPS on ultra at 1920x1200 on eyefinity setup? or what would be needed, besides a 3rd 7970 to get those frames?
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 9:39:02 PM

Quote:
Your max viewable frame rate is capped at the monitors max native refresh rate and the monitors native max refresh rate never changes whether you have V-Synch turned on or off.


That is true.

But IMO for BF3 it's way better to disable it unless you're running into the 100s. I usually average around 66 in regular maps and closer to 60 in B2K maps (not sure why they run a little slower). Using Vsync causes a few issues, generally speaking there is intermitten lag spikes, but also when it gets really intense your min FPS is usually going to be lower than without vsync.

I sort of accidentally benchmarked it:

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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 9:58:33 PM

Quote:
Even with V-Synch turned off your eyes cannot see and mouse cannot feel any more frame rates than your monitor is capable of displaying which that number is BOUND to no higher than the monitors max refresh rate which is typically 60hz or now in days we have 120hz. Even when fraps displays it is over 60fps that does not mean you eyes are processing the extra frames cause they are still capped at 60fps on a 60hz monitor like I stated previous.


Obviously. That's not my point. My point is that you will have less input lag and less/smaller framerate drops. The only reason to enable vsync is if your are getting screen tearing (which in my experience BF3 does not have) or you are getting such an incredibly high framerate that it's literally stupid to not enable it (and similarily, it wouldn't affect your min framerate much)

Look at the crossfire results I posted. The vsync ones have a min of 56fps, while without vsync the min is over 80! There's no reason it would dip below 60, ever, considering that, and yet with vsync on it does. And that removes smoothness. So running over 60 fps/without vsync can have a positive impact on overall performance.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 10:08:28 PM

From my Crossfire experience and BF3, Vsync in BF3 causes terrible micro stuttering at least on my setup.
And if your running eyefinity modes, don't ever turn Vsync on, 3 monitors with Vsync causes some serious issues with performance due to trying to keep the timing of 3 monitors.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 11:44:20 PM

peruviansonata said:
is it not possible on my current setup to have a steady FPS of 60FPS on ultra at 1920x1200 on eyefinity setup? or what would be needed, besides a 3rd 7970 to get those frames?



Might be young driver issues. Crossfire 7970's should give you a bit more fps than my crossfire 6990 + 6970.

This is Ultra, 6018x1080, 2xAA



This is with AA deferred off



There is a definite problem with the 12.2 preview driver because I can no longer run 4xAA. With 12.1 I was able to run 4xAA with average 55FPS but with 12.2 I only get 15FPS. It was so painfull trying to get a screenshot I just gave up. I usually play with 2xAA and it is smooth as silk with no stuttering or artifacting of any kind.

**edit**

Darn it! photobucket resized mine also. Anyway, The first screen shot shows 135 FPS in ultra at 6018x1080 with AA deferred off. The second shows 68FPS in ultra, 6018x1080 with 2xAA deferred.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2012 11:52:40 PM

all i know is that im running BF3 on 3 1080p monitors with one 7970 and its smooth with max settings. well aa is turned down but otherwise max.

untill they come up with an "actual fix" for micro stuttering im not doing dual cards.
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February 9, 2012 12:09:38 AM

Quote:
Micro stuttering is a blown outta proportion anomaly that is easily mitigated or completely cured but the noobs whom have not and will not give it a try have messed it up for those that wanted to and are now turned off of it.

could microstuttering be what im experiencing on my side monitors, and if so, how do I fix it?
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February 9, 2012 12:13:02 AM

alrobichaud said:
Might be young driver issues. Crossfire 7970's should give you a bit more fps than my crossfire 6990 + 6970.

This is Ultra, 6018x1080, AA off

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r637/alrobichaud/ScreenshotWin32-0003.png

This is with 2xAA

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r637/alrobichaud/ScreenshotWin32-0002.png

There is a definite problem with the 12.2 preview driver because I can no longer run 4xAA. With 12.1 I was able to run 4xAA with average 55FPS but with 12.2 I only get 15FPS. It was so painfull trying to get a screenshot I just gave up. I usually play with 2xAA and it is smooth as silk with no stuttering or artifacting of any kind.

Darn it! photobucket resized mine also. Anyway, The first screen shot shows 68 FPS in ultra at 6018x1080 with AA deferred off. The second shows 135FPS in ultra, 6018x1080 with 2xAA deferred.



Is it possible for you to send me your user.cfg (if u have one) and your PROF_SAVE_profile in C:\Users\computer name\Documents\Battlefield 3\settings

I wanna see if just redoing or transfering your info into my settings may help, kinda mad that ur trifire 6970s are outdoing my crossfire 7970s, you're right, it shouldn't be, gonna look into some other stuff in the mean time.
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a b U Graphics card
February 9, 2012 12:17:35 AM

peruviansonata said:
could microstuttering be what im experiencing on my side monitors, and if so, how do I fix it?


It is probably just the drivers. AMD is continuously adding new CAP's to the driver page. Just read some of the fixes for the games that the CAP was released for. It took something like 4 months for AMD to release a fix for Need for speed the run that caused the vegitation on the side of the road to flicker and flash in eyefinity. You may just need to have some patience.
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a b U Graphics card
February 9, 2012 12:30:24 AM

peruviansonata said:
Is it possible for you to send me your user.cfg (if u have one) and your PROF_SAVE_profile in C:\Users\computer name\Documents\Battlefield 3\settings

I wanna see if just redoing or transfering your info into my settings may help, kinda mad that ur trifire 6970s are outdoing my crossfire 7970s, you're right, it shouldn't be, gonna look into some other stuff in the mean time.



Sent you a message with my email address.
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 9, 2012 2:43:22 AM

jedi - Vsync is perfectly well understood in theory. Practically, it does not perform quite the same. Just look at the Dirt 2 benchmark I posted. I personally did the benchmarks. A single 5850 performed pretty well the same with vsync on and off because it wasn't able to exceed 60 fps on it's own very much. However with 2 cards I am able to go over 100 avg, with over 80 minimum, yet with the same 2 cards and vsync on, the minimum dropped to 50s. Why didn't it stay pegged at 60? It obviously is more than powerful enough for it.


From http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html
Quote:
When VSync is enabled, what happens is that your graphics card is told to wait for your monitor to signal when it's ready for a new frame before supplying a single whole frame, each and every time. It can't race ahead, it can't just pump out lots of partially completed frames over old ones whenever it's ready - it has to provide a single whole frame to the monitor whenever the monitor says it's ready to refresh itself during VBI. The first noticeable impact is that your FPS becomes capped at a maximum equal to your current refresh rate. So if your refresh rate is 60Hz for example, your framerate can now only reach a maximum of 60FPS. By itself this isn't really a problem, since every monitor can do at least a 60Hz refresh rate at any resolution, and as we've discussed under the Frames Per Second section, if your system can produce 60FPS consistently in a game this should be more than enough FPS to provide smooth natural motion for virtually any type of game.

There is however a more fundamental problem with enabling VSync, and that is it can significantly reduce your overall framerate, often dropping your FPS to exactly 50% of the refresh rate. This is a difficult concept to explain, but it just has to do with timing. When VSync is enabled, your graphics card becomes a slave to your monitor. If at any time your FPS falls just below your refresh rate, each frame starts taking your graphics card longer to draw than the time it takes for your monitor to refresh itself. So every 2nd refresh, your graphics card just misses completing a new whole frame in time. This means that both its primary and secondary frame buffers are filled, it has nowhere to put any new information, so it has to sit idle and wait for the next refresh to come around before it can unload its recently completed frame, and start work on a new one in the newly cleared secondary buffer. This results in exactly half the framerate of the refresh rate whenever your FPS falls below the refresh rate.


Most of the hardware nuts around here agree, unless there is a specific reason to enable vsync, like very noticeable screen tearing, it's better to leave it off. I might take a shot later, but I always record my FPS and with vsync on (Skyrim) my fps avg is 60 but there is clearly a very, very small dip at regular intervals that I am quite sure is related to this "wait" phenomenon where you end up missing a refresh cycle every now and then.

That said, the OP's issue is tearing on the side monitors but NOT the main monitor, which is a completely different thing. I mentioned it before, finally have the time to find it. It seems there is an issue with mixed outputs, like DVI plus DP on the 7970s.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/342429-33-mixed-outpu...
I have not looked into this further, but this is the 2nd similar issue today on the 7970.
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February 10, 2012 7:44:09 AM

well still no fix to my problem, getting really bummed that I have to run everything on low to maintain a good FPS at 5760x1200 res
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a b U Graphics card
February 10, 2012 1:43:43 PM

turn off crossfire. i know the game runs great on a single card at max.
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February 10, 2012 5:03:12 PM

but to get that performance on 3 monitors? at ultra settings?
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February 10, 2012 5:19:57 PM

Okay, so I did what Farrengottu said, just to see, and I seem to be getting better performance in non-crossfire mode, than in crossfire mode for my 7970s, why is this? and is there a fix to get crossfire running properly for my setup? It shouldnt work this way, right? im able to hold a sustained 70 FPS in single card mode on ultra but with both cards inside but crossfire not enabled, shouldnt I receive even more with crossfire enabled?
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February 10, 2012 5:20:11 PM

Well might be just the young AMD driver for CF 7970 even if 2x CF is known for micro stuttering and going for 3x CF get little FPS gain over the dual CF but it get a rid of micro stuttering caused by cross-fire and sli.

But since dual 6970 run bf3 on 5760x 1080p just fine : http://media.bestofmicro.com/X/L/320025/original/BF3%20...

I'd assume 2x 7970 shouldn't suffer that much from the CF lag so its safe to bet AMD will release a patch to fix it... someday.

Also the dual GPU card get less micro stuttering then going for 2 GPU and this is the reason why I'm waiting for the 7990 or the gtx690 if they prove to be performing well (cuz we all know ATI drivers are a bitch)
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February 10, 2012 5:23:10 PM

also noticing the difference of alot of microstuttering in crossfire mode, not sure what to do about that either
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February 10, 2012 5:31:21 PM

peruviansonata said:
also noticing the difference of alot of microstuttering in crossfire mode, not sure what to do about that either


crossfire and sli is known for microstuttering but it shouldn't be that bad otherise its probably bad drviers fault.

here is an article you might want to read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stut...

All in all I'd wait before going 3x CF. ATI will probably release a patch for that mather since playing BF3 5760x 1080p is probably the only reason to buy two 7970 and considering the price I hope they are aware about the urge of fixing it.
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February 10, 2012 5:36:11 PM

in my original post, you are right on the money, the main reason I bought two cards was to display BF3 at max settings this way, hence the pic of my mouse and keyboard,lol. I <3 the game, now just wish i could play it... :C
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February 10, 2012 5:48:32 PM

Did you tryed the ATI tech support ? you might give it a try and let us know their reply since I'd like to know if its ATI drivers faults or not (waiting for the ivy-bridge and the 7990 myself to start my BF3 5760x set-up).

And I check everyday about the release date of both :-P
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February 11, 2012 6:46:27 PM

so got so frustrated, tried formatting and doing everything fresh, used the ATI 7900 series specific drivers as well, still no luck

these are the frams, and perfoverlay stats im getting right now:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/foozYOA8SnP_bdHC4...

and these are my current settings in game:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4l1Rg2gzrA1n_mocf...

still no luck and getting pretty frustrated at this point :C any idea what I can do to increase my frames without having to buy a 3rd 7970?

I see people getting almost twice as many frames with just about the same setup, all the time, alrobichaud is 1 example, So please, if any advice or more suggestions, let me know, done everything this forum thread has said to do so far and no luck.
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February 12, 2012 4:38:12 AM

just tried some other games as well, Tera Online gets better framed in windowed mode than in game, and since Windowed mode disables crossfire, pretty sure its a cross fire issue with microstuttering, so question, would flashing my bios to the newest update do anything to improve the 7970s performance? second, should i reset my mobos settings to default before doing so?
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 12, 2012 2:44:21 PM

I'd suggest you contact your GPU manufacturer or retailer and get some help from them. They'll probably either tell you to update the bios (and send you the right one) or RMA the cards.
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February 12, 2012 4:09:02 PM

well, I found this out so far, IF i do run vsync with triple buffering, the game looks and runs smooth as silk, BUT i now get input lag, and the setting FPS to 59 fix only works slightly, the latency is still noticable a bit, feels like, if you were playing a normal FPS( I say normal because BF3 uses Client Side hitbox registry) , and you play with a ping of 40-60 most of the time, it feels more like a ping of 100-120, are there any other fixes out there that may reduce input lag, I have the BF3 edition Razer mouse and installed the newest drivers/ used old drivers as well prior to format and feels the same. so mouse drivers I dont think is an issue
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February 12, 2012 4:38:57 PM

There are some well known facts about FPS games and settings that you have knowledge about but seem to want a solution to when there is none.

FACTS:

VSYNC in FPS games (or any 3d game for that matter): WILL CREATE INPUT LAG.
- solution: DO NOT RUN VSYNC IN your FPS games. No hardcore fps player runs with vsync. It creates input lag, vsync should always be off. Screen tearing is just something that you have to learn to deal with. It's either input lag or tearing, the tearing is the lesser of the 2 evils.

MICROSTUTTERING: Crossfire is known to have worse microstuttering than nvidia sli cards. This is a fact. Nvidia actually has hardware on their cards that helps with the problem, ati does not.
- solution: If you don't want microstuttering, you either have to run single card, or trifire with 3 ati cards. Or you could possibly try SLI with nvidia and see if that's any better. If you want the performance benefit of crossfire, you're going to have to deal with microstuttering.

You said that when your crossfire 7970s were running 60fps, if felt a lot less smooth than when they were running at 90fps on your 60hz monitor. Well, this is exactly how microstuttering works! If you cap those cards, your 60fps is going to feel a lot more like say 40fps. When you're running at 90fps, it'll feel a lot more like say 60-70fps! That's why you felt the difference.

Seems like you have a large budget, my solution to you is to either try running just one 7970, see how you like it. If not, the other option is to go 3x crossfire.

Go read the toms hardware article on microstutter.
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February 12, 2012 9:33:36 PM

k, thanks Imulder, now just 1 last question, if I infact get another card, I was debating on waiting for the 7990 and doing a Quadfire (since 7990 is 2x7970) or should I just get another 7970 and do tri fire? or return 1 7970 and get a 7990? is it having a 1 card or 3 card setup help counter microstuttering and 2 (maybe 4 if thats how the pattern works) cards can not counter microstuttering?
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February 19, 2012 3:25:24 AM

so not sure what exactly, may be the new drivers from the 15th/16th of feb, or all the hot fixes, FPS limiting, registry tweaks and some minor overclocking in the video cards, but I finally have a sustained FPS with no issues with everything on ultra except for MSAA and HSAO off, and it looks great, runs smooth and no microstuttering, some slight frame distortion when moving really fast, but thats to be expected with Vsync off. It runs smooth,plays smooth and feels smooth, finally feel like I am getting my moneys worth.

here is an image with my FPS and settings set up to. (I capped fps at 55, felt somewhat smoother and someone else on another forum recommended it w/ msi afterburner)



and this is some in game footage while flying



Works great, and i am really happy with the results, Thanks for those who helped in this thread and the many other threads I read on this forum, much appreciated.

(Side note) the second pic, what does the graph on the left mean with that weird curve its doing?
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March 14, 2012 2:28:18 AM

peruviansonata said:
so not sure what exactly, may be the new drivers from the 15th/16th of feb, or all the hot fixes, FPS limiting, registry tweaks and some minor overclocking in the video cards, but I finally have a sustained FPS with no issues with everything on ultra except for MSAA and HSAO off, and it looks great, runs smooth and no microstuttering, some slight frame distortion when moving really fast, but thats to be expected with Vsync off. It runs smooth,plays smooth and feels smooth, finally feel like I am getting my moneys worth.

here is an image with my FPS and settings set up to. (I capped fps at 55, felt somewhat smoother and someone else on another forum recommended it w/ msi afterburner)

http://i.imgur.com/Q0nF4.jpg

and this is some in game footage while flying

http://i.imgur.com/ugOa1.jpg

Works great, and i am really happy with the results, Thanks for those who helped in this thread and the many other threads I read on this forum, much appreciated.

(Side note) the second pic, what does the graph on the left mean with that weird curve its doing?


How did you move your minimap etc.. to the middle?
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a c 125 U Graphics card
March 14, 2012 4:40:05 AM

kybosh77 said:
How did you move your minimap etc.. to the middle?

That happens by default with Eyefinity.
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July 6, 2012 5:27:12 AM

HI All,

been reading this thread and many others with great interest in relation to BF3 and 2x 7970's tops in crossfire mode.

All my games seem to work fine, skyrim, mass effect 3 etc.. except for BF3 where it crashes on a regular basis.

running it with ultra settings at 2560xRes 1x30' monitor.

12.7 beta drivers with 12.7 CAP 1
ULPS disabled
TdrDelay at 10
Enabled cross fire on - overdrive on - everything running stock standard.
i7 3770K
G1 Sniper 3 board
4x4 GSkill Trident mem
Enermax Plat 1000W
SSD OCZ Vertex 4

have tried the 11.12 drivers as well and still crashes at random times.
Heave 3.0 crash on stages 5 -6 20 -21 and 25 - 26 depending on various setting changes but rarely i get a full run.
Furmark - no probs
Not running gpuz, trixx or msi in backgroun.
All playback sounds disablled except onbaord sound.
everything running stock.

any advice or ideas?
thanks heaps,
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August 13, 2012 7:59:02 PM

I had nothing but problems with 12.6 and 12.7 beta id suggest trying 12.4.
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!