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Won't post with Graphics Card installed.

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 9, 2012 6:12:07 PM

The Graphics card is a MSI ATI Radeon HD 2600XT, the mother board is a MSI K9VGM-V MS-7253, proccessor is an old athlon 64 3200+, as far as I can see in documentation they should be all compatible together. I have another graphics card that I have installed in that PCIex16 slot however it is a PCIe 2.0 card and isn't recognized by the system, however everything else boots fine. The PCI and PCIe controller on this mother board is the same and I have had issues running pci graphics cards. Any ideas for troubleshooting?
February 9, 2012 6:13:52 PM

I'm going to say it's your power supply, what do you have?
February 9, 2012 6:19:14 PM

Colusus branded 500w peak

made by Atrix/unitek
Related resources
February 9, 2012 6:46:31 PM

Maxor1 said:
Colusus branded 500w peak

made by Atrix/unitek


I have never heard of them, They seem pretty unknown.
a b U Graphics card
February 9, 2012 6:54:33 PM

PSU seems iffy. You are gonna want to start saving for a new computer, buying an new PSU for this one will just be putting it on life support.
February 9, 2012 7:12:37 PM

majorgibly said:
I have never heard of them, They seem pretty unknown.



They aren't huge kind of splashed for awhile with cheap 480 and 500 watt powersupplies in 2008/2009, Still in business. This particular one has been in the system since mid to late 2007 it was previously running a similar graphics card. (long story basically at one point this was my main pc till 2010 when it was converted into a home media server, built a new system fried that due to dirty power/poor decision making, built a new system that was stolen last month, reconverting this into something to do light gaming web browsing until I can afford to build a new system.) Anyways trying to give it a new (well used parts bin/scavenged from friends/people who owe me favours) graphics card till I can build the Ivybridge I5 system in April.


Pretty sure its not the PSU, unless this one is in some weird stage of failure.... It was running a similar graphics card at one point and untill recently had 3 hard drives and an extra 2 optical drives that are no longer in it. Also removed the pci sound card (was redundant to the onboard sound without a surround sound system hooked to it.).



February 9, 2012 7:17:17 PM

Maxor1 said:
They aren't huge kind of splashed for awhile with cheap 480 and 500 watt powersupplies in 2008/2009, Still in business. This particular one has been in the system since mid to late 2007 it was previously running a similar graphics card. (long story basically at one point this was my main pc till 2010 when it was converted into a home media server, built a new system fried that due to dirty power/poor decision making, built a new system that was stolen last month, reconverting this into something to do light gaming web browsing until I can afford to build a new system.) Anyways trying to give it a new (well used parts bin/scavenged from friends/people who owe me favours) graphics card till I can build the Ivybridge I5 system in April.


Pretty sure its not the PSU, unless this one is in some weird stage of failure.... It was running a similar graphics card at one point and untill recently had 3 hard drives and an extra 2 optical drives that are no longer in it. Also removed the pci sound card (was redundant to the onboard sound without a surround sound system hooked to it.).


I recommend you pick up an Antec one or Corsair PSU.
February 9, 2012 8:08:24 PM

Well checked the voltages on the PSU with a multimeter they seem fine. I am really uncertain about purchasing a new power supply to put into a 5+ year old computer that is allready semi stripped.

Have a good way to check wattage output with system under load?

Everything I can find for the way this thing is currently configured (3 different power supply calculators) says about 250 watts should be its peak draw since its been stripped down to one sata hard drive one optical drive, usb mouse and keyboard, the cpu, ram and the graphic card. I'm not discounting an under powered unit. I would just think that a graphics card that takes all its power from the PCI express slot in the first place would be able to at least hit post since it wouldn't be close to peak draw and neither would the system. If I was blue screening intermittently under load, it would make it seem more likely.


I do understand the idea of a quality power supply with failure and voltage protections, but am also thinking that probably isn't the first and most likely cause of a system that shouldn't over draw half of the peak rating for a power supply.
February 9, 2012 8:10:45 PM

Prime95 will stress most of the system.
February 9, 2012 8:15:05 PM

majorgibly said:
Prime95 will stress most of the system.



Yes it will but how does that tell me what wattage outputs the power supply is putting out, especially since that would be testing with only onboard graphics not the video card installed?
February 9, 2012 8:22:40 PM

No, Prime95 stresses CPU And RAM. I don't know of a application that allows you to monitor total output, not even sure if one exists.
February 9, 2012 8:34:33 PM

majorgibly said:
No, Prime95 stresses CPU And RAM. I don't know of a application that allows you to monitor total output, not even sure if one exists.



See the difficulty since you guys think that it is the power supply that is keeping it from posting?
February 9, 2012 8:41:29 PM

Maxor1 said:
See the difficulty since you guys think that it is the power supply that is keeping it from posting?


Nobody is ever 100% sure since we are not sitting right next to you. However when the forum can't provide a answer (very rare) go with your gut feeling. I would personally say it's the PSU. But the hardware in that system is old and worn down because of the wearing of electrical pathways which is natural for a computer or any electrical item will experience. I would suggest a new system. If this is not a option then I would put my money on the PSU. But again not 100%
February 9, 2012 9:01:39 PM

Ok What is the second thought if not the power-supply? I am really willing to only put $100 toward this system since the plan right now is to build a real system as soon as the ivybridge i5's hit the shelves.

I fully agree on a new system have all ready done it twice over using this current system. However I wasn't planning on having to replace this and a number of other things resulting from having my girlfriends place broken into and a bunch of my stuff stolen, so am stuck till early april, (actually could probably do it a bit sooner but since we are talking a week or two anyway, may as well wait for the ivybridge i5.)



Side note to everyone your homeowners/renters insurance covers your place, I was staying at hers 9 days out of 10 so had a bunch of my stuff there, main pc, laptop, bigscreen, stereo, dvd's & such. Their insurance only overs the stuff they declared, not yours.
a b U Graphics card
a b V Motherboard
February 9, 2012 9:31:27 PM

Your PSU could have reached a point in its life where its peak output is dropping and is no longer sufficient to boot. I had a PSU do that once, and never got past the POST. No hardware changes, just suddenly couldn't power up when I had my x1950 Pro slotted in. Your PSU being a budget brand is a big red flag to me for a potential failure.

Take it from somebody who learned the hard way, never spend less than $60 for a PSU. They'll cost you more in the long run, especially if it has a suspiciously high wattage. First one I bought was a $29.99 600 watt supply. Failed after 3 months. Next one was $39.99 for a 550 watt. Lasted a year. Current PSU was a normally $90 Corsair unit that I got on sale for $55. Been going strong for 3 years now, and will probably outlive the rest of the system.
February 9, 2012 9:49:06 PM

Ok williard do you have a good way to test the PSU? It boots and runs just fine without that graphics card, and boots fine with a radeon x1300 PCI card in it, that has active cooling and it will run fine with that till it drivers crashes, the system doesn't blue screen then either, just drivers crashes and goes to 600 x 800 with 8 bit color. That graphics card also does that with the other system I pulled it out of, just far less often because it actually has a released driver for that card including the pci version by the manufacturer, instead of the multi card drivers version that is all I can find online today.

This PSU just went from running two more hard drives and a set of 3 dvd burners than it is currently running..... I don't think that the burners were using less power than a single bus only powered video card though it would be at a different voltage stepping.

I'm not going to completely discredit the PSU idea, will go through the hardware pile at my house to see whats there but most of the good power supplies are in systems, am pretty sure I can find an atx power supply in it though. The question is how big and how old.

a b U Graphics card
a b V Motherboard
February 14, 2012 6:33:02 PM

Maxor1 said:
Ok williard do you have a good way to test the PSU?

The easiest thing to do is swap out the PSU for a bigger one and see if the computer boots. If there's one you can borrow from another system that has a higher wattage than the one currently in there, it might be a ten minute test that confirms the PSU as a culprit. If it still fails to POST, though, it's not actually a vindication of the PSU. The borrowed one may be insufficient to power the system as well.

Another option would be to remove every bit of hardware you can from the computer except the video card that's causing the problem, see if it boots up then. Get it to boot with less hardware, I'd call it 100% positive the PSU is at fault.

Barring that, you could load the system up with as much hardware as you can to increase the load on the PSU and see if you can get the same failure without the offending video card. This runs the risk of potentially killing your PSU if it's not already damaged, though.

Quote:
It boots and runs just fine without that graphics card, and boots fine with a radeon x1300 PCI card in it

Sounding more and more like a PSU on its way out. Your motherboard obviously isn't broken, because other PCI-e cards work (software issues aside).

Quote:
This PSU just went from running two more hard drives and a set of 3 dvd burners than it is currently running..... I don't think that the burners were using less power than a single bus only powered video card though it would be at a different voltage stepping.

The PCI-e bus provides up to 75 watts of power. Unless you were using all three DVD burners to simultaneously write discs at their maximum speed, they're probably going to draw less than that. HDDs are typically rated at around 10 watts, and DVD burners around 25, so you'd need to make all those drives hit their peak consumption simultaneously to match the potential draw of a PCI-e video card.

If at all possible, I strongly recommend trying a second PSU to see if it fixes the problem. You might be able to pick one up at Best Buy and return it if it doesn't solve the problem (or return it anyway and buy somewhere that doesn't gouge so badly), but I'm not sure about their return policy.
February 15, 2012 3:10:58 PM

2564826,17,761911 said:


Quote:
It boots and runs just fine without that graphics card, and boots fine with a radeon x1300 PCI card in it

Sounding more and more like a PSU on its way out. Your motherboard obviously isn't broken, because other PCI-e cards work (software issues aside).

No other PCI-e cards work in it. It does boot and post with a PCIe 2.0 x16 card that I had attempted to install, hoping that the board supported PCIe 2.0 with the bios update that I had done on it. However that card is not recognized as anything. The PCI radeon x1300 boots and runs till it has driver issues..... I'm not sure how you are coming up with the impression that other PCIe Cards work.

I will be trying a different power supply shortly. A 1KWatt PSU should be able to handle 1 molex cdburner, a sata hard drive, the CPU/Motherboard, that graphics card and a PCI Ethernet card oh and a power and hard disk access led, though I suppose I could just disconnect those..
[/quote]
a b U Graphics card
a b V Motherboard
February 15, 2012 6:13:41 PM

Maxor1 said:
2564826,17,761911 said:


Quote:
It boots and runs just fine without that graphics card, and boots fine with a radeon x1300 PCI card in it

Sounding more and more like a PSU on its way out. Your motherboard obviously isn't broken, because other PCI-e cards work (software issues aside).

No other PCI-e cards work in it. It does boot and post with a PCIe 2.0 x16 card that I had attempted to install, hoping that the board supported PCIe 2.0 with the bios update that I had done on it. However that card is not recognized as anything. The PCI radeon x1300 boots and runs till it has driver issues..... I'm not sure how you are coming up with the impression that other PCIe Cards work.

I will be trying a different power supply shortly. A 1KWatt PSU should be able to handle 1 molex cdburner, a sata hard drive, the CPU/Motherboard, that graphics card and a PCI Ethernet card oh and a power and hard disk access led, though I suppose I could just disconnect those..
[/quote]
said:

Sorry, I misread. Thought your x1300 was PCI-e. Makes me much less convinced it's the PSU.

These things can be really tricky to nail down exactly what's causing the problem. I keep loads of old hardware around for just this kind of thing.
February 15, 2012 6:28:17 PM

Right up until April or may of last year having the hardware to troubleshoot wouldn't be a problem.Sadly at the moment I am in a weird position of being somewhat nomadic which makes spare hardware a big problem. Other Downside of this is the unit is mainly a make do computer until ivybridge comes out when I build a new system, is that any repairs/upgrades come off of the new build fund.

Not that I think I ever had a bunch of PCIe x 16 1.0 cards. I think I've had 3 total. One of which is trying to be put into this machine now.
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