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XB360 WILL Play Xbox1 games

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Last response: in PC Gaming
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 2:20:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...

they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.


sounds like emulation

More about : xb360 play xbox1 games

Anonymous
May 17, 2005 9:08:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

This doesn't seem to make any sense at all, but hey, whatever. I will
wait until I go to the official XBox site and it says it there.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 9:37:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Xbox 360 backward compatible with top-selling Xbox games. "

WTF does THAT mean? The X360 will reject games like Shrek or The Matrix
Reloaded?

Jonah Falcon

<Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>
> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
>
> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>
>
> sounds like emulation
>
Related resources
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:13:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Jonah Falcon wrote:
> "Xbox 360 backward compatible with top-selling Xbox games. "
>
> WTF does THAT mean? The X360 will reject games like Shrek or The
Matrix
> Reloaded?

I dunno what it means myself, but it sure smells funny.

I never thought the Xbox was ever gonna be backwards compatible and
after it's non-announcement at the MTV infomercial I figured that was
the final confirmation, but this "top-selling game" garbage seems like
they're flailing.
May 17, 2005 12:36:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Actually, the Matrix Reloaded sold quite well. People complained that
it wasn't very good or that it was buggy, but I didn't have much
trouble with it.

You missed the biggest line though...

"Final Fantasy XI is coming to Xbox 360."

- Jordan
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 4:24:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Christian Winter" <cwinter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116331687.477722.182920@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This doesn't seem to make any sense at all, but hey, whatever. I will
> wait until I go to the official XBox site and it says it there.
>
It does make sense, read Glitch's post in ugvx, it's the only way they can
do it, that's why its being done this way.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 8:15:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Matt Hook wrote:
> "Christian Winter" <cwinter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1116331687.477722.182920@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>This doesn't seem to make any sense at all, but hey, whatever. I will
>>wait until I go to the official XBox site and it says it there.
>>
>
> It does make sense, read Glitch's post in ugvx, it's the only way they can
> do it, that's why its being done this way.

As much as I hate cross posting (hence why i removed all but ugvx for my
reply), just this once...

If anything I would expect there would be some emulation software built
into the 360 OS, which could over time be updated via live, much like
the software version on the current xbox OS has changed over time. This
could allow for development and refinement of the emulation engine.

The main problem comes with the differences in archtecture, given that
the PowerPC CPU is vastly different from the Intel architecture of the
current xbox. Also the ATI GPU will work differently from the nVIDIA,
the nVIDIA chip has a programmable shader routine to write custom code
for the hardware, making it specific. These would need to be emulated or
recoded for the ATI hardware, most likely via built in emulation software.

Just my two cents.

Matt
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 8:17:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

[GLY7CH] wrote:
> Matt Hook wrote:
>
>> "Christian Winter" <cwinter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116331687.477722.182920@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> This doesn't seem to make any sense at all, but hey, whatever. I will
>>> wait until I go to the official XBox site and it says it there.
>>>
>>
>> It does make sense, read Glitch's post in ugvx, it's the only way they
>> can do it, that's why its being done this way.
>
>
> As much as I hate cross posting (hence why i removed all but ugvx for my
> reply), just this once...
>
> If anything I would expect there would be some emulation software built
> into the 360 OS, which could over time be updated via live, much like
> the software version on the current xbox OS has changed over time. This
> could allow for development and refinement of the emulation engine.
>
> The main problem comes with the differences in archtecture, given that
> the PowerPC CPU is vastly different from the Intel architecture of the
> current xbox. Also the ATI GPU will work differently from the nVIDIA,
> the nVIDIA chip has a programmable shader routine to write custom code
> for the hardware, making it specific. These would need to be emulated or
> recoded for the ATI hardware, most likely via built in emulation software.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Matt

So cross posting is ok now from this group ?

Oh well it seems so. :) 
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 8:26:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

<Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>
> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
>
> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>
>
> sounds like emulation

Just a crazy thought...

Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new hardware
and include them on the hard drive.
Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 9:13:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

It's only the XBE that'd be different, so 10mb max, that could be downloaded
on the fly from LIVE, and there you have it, you're original game working
great in native 360 code.

<Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>
>
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
ress-Briefing/
>
> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>
>
> sounds like emulation
>
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 10:14:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

>
> Am sure they said there releasing halo 2 on 360 anyway but with much
> better graphics etc.
>
> Gordy
>

Yeah, it's called Halo 360
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 10:18:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:xqfie.2862$M36.2307@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Xbox 360 backward compatible with top-selling Xbox games. "
>
> WTF does THAT mean? The X360 will reject games like Shrek or The Matrix
> Reloaded?
>
> Jonah Falcon
>
> <Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>>
>> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
>>
>> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>>
>>
>> sounds like emulation
>>
>
>

To me, I would think that with the power of the XBOX 360, it would easily be
able to handle the CPU overhead for XBOX 1 emulation. Of course emulation
can never 100% emulate the real thing without some headaches, they may just
mean that they will ensure top titles work, and if others don't, well too
bad.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 10:21:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"[GLY7CH]" <GLY7CH@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:-NqdnRm5ua8SlxffRVnysA@pipex.net...
> Matt Hook wrote:
>> "Christian Winter" <cwinter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116331687.477722.182920@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>This doesn't seem to make any sense at all, but hey, whatever. I will
>>>wait until I go to the official XBox site and it says it there.
>>>
>>
>> It does make sense, read Glitch's post in ugvx, it's the only way they
>> can do it, that's why its being done this way.
>
> As much as I hate cross posting (hence why i removed all but ugvx for my
> reply), just this once...
>
> If anything I would expect there would be some emulation software built
> into the 360 OS, which could over time be updated via live, much like the
> software version on the current xbox OS has changed over time. This could
> allow for development and refinement of the emulation engine.
>
> The main problem comes with the differences in archtecture, given that the
> PowerPC CPU is vastly different from the Intel architecture of the current
> xbox. Also the ATI GPU will work differently from the nVIDIA, the nVIDIA
> chip has a programmable shader routine to write custom code for the
> hardware, making it specific. These would need to be emulated or recoded
> for the ATI hardware, most likely via built in emulation software.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Matt

Or even if Intel and nVidia wanted payment due to licensing agreements, I
would be willing to spend $50 for some software to allow me to play most of
the previous titles. Granted, I feel this should be included with XBOX 2,
but I wouldn't want to throw out my $800 in XBOX games I've already
invested. I've got room for a single console only, so the "use both
consoles" retort doesn't fly. It was hard enough to convince my wife to get
one console, I can't imagine her being too happy about having two around.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 11:12:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Dr Gordon Crowbar" <Justin@c.com> wrote in message
news:tIWdnWOm44G-kBffRVnyuA@pipex.net...
>
> <Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>>
>> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
>>
>> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>>
>>
>> sounds like emulation
>
> Just a crazy thought...
>
> Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
> hardware and include them on the hard drive.
> Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>
>
>

to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play halo
for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same vids/music
and textures from the original dvd.

Gordy
May 18, 2005 7:44:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox (More info?)

In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, "Gordy" <gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>"Dr Gordon Crowbar" <Justin@c.com> wrote in message
>news:tIWdnWOm44G-kBffRVnyuA@pipex.net...
>>
>> <Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>>>
>>>
> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
>ss-Briefing/
>>>
>>> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>>>
>>>
>>> sounds like emulation
>>
>> Just a crazy thought...
>>
>> Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
>> hardware and include them on the hard drive.
>> Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>>
>>
>>
>
>to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play halo
>for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
>code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same vids/music
>and textures from the original dvd.
>
>Gordy
>
>
Not everyone lives in an area that has broadband. Or like me, i do not want to
pay comcast the unbeleivable $50 + price per month for cable modem.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 10:31:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com says...

<snip>

> > Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
> > hardware and include them on the hard drive.
> > Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
> >
> >
> >
>
> to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play halo
> for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
> code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same vids/music
> and textures from the original dvd.
>

Thats pretty much what I expect too. Possibly a hybrid of x86 emulation,
new exe's, patches to replace Nvidia microcode and games that only use
DirectX calls with odd bits of translation too.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 10:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:31:28 GMT, Dog Bowl
<dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:

>In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
>gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com says...
>
><snip>
>
>> > Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
>> > hardware and include them on the hard drive.
>> > Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play halo
>> for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
>> code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same vids/music
>> and textures from the original dvd.
>>
>
>Thats pretty much what I expect too. Possibly a hybrid of x86 emulation,
>new exe's, patches to replace Nvidia microcode and games that only use
>DirectX calls with odd bits of translation too.

Only about 10% of xbox owners use xbox live. Any form of emulation
that requires you to download a patch doesn't seem like a good idea.
On the other hand, if they plan on increasing the emulation list of
games, XBL makes the most sense. Perhaps they can make the patches
available on live but also make disks available for free through
retailers.

MS may also have the emulation patches installed on the HD, if it's
included in the basic package.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 12:31:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Imperium" <frankmelo@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:f0pl81hplg2jphksu7jjj5240fr9kb1o29@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:31:28 GMT, Dog Bowl
> <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
>>gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com says...
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> > Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
>>> > hardware and include them on the hard drive.
>>> > Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play
>>> halo
>>> for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
>>> code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same
>>> vids/music
>>> and textures from the original dvd.
>>>
>>
>>Thats pretty much what I expect too. Possibly a hybrid of x86 emulation,
>>new exe's, patches to replace Nvidia microcode and games that only use
>>DirectX calls with odd bits of translation too.
>
> Only about 10% of xbox owners use xbox live. Any form of emulation
> that requires you to download a patch doesn't seem like a good idea.
> On the other hand, if they plan on increasing the emulation list of
> games, XBL makes the most sense. Perhaps they can make the patches
> available on live but also make disks available for free through
> retailers.
>
> MS may also have the emulation patches installed on the HD, if it's
> included in the basic package.

Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of the
box' with the 360.
May 18, 2005 12:31:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega (More info?)

In article <lqWdnWNSmtmkchffRVnysQ@pipex.net>, "Andrew Stirling" <andrewstirling@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Imperium" <frankmelo@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:f0pl81hplg2jphksu7jjj5240fr9kb1o29@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:31:28 GMT, Dog Bowl
>> <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
>>>gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com says...
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>> > Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
>>>> > hardware and include them on the hard drive.
>>>> > Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play
>>>> halo
>>>> for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
>>>> code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same
>>>> vids/music
>>>> and textures from the original dvd.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Thats pretty much what I expect too. Possibly a hybrid of x86 emulation,
>>>new exe's, patches to replace Nvidia microcode and games that only use
>>>DirectX calls with odd bits of translation too.
>>
>> Only about 10% of xbox owners use xbox live. Any form of emulation
>> that requires you to download a patch doesn't seem like a good idea.
>> On the other hand, if they plan on increasing the emulation list of
>> games, XBL makes the most sense. Perhaps they can make the patches
>> available on live but also make disks available for free through
>> retailers.
>>
>> MS may also have the emulation patches installed on the HD, if it's
>> included in the basic package.
>
>Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of the
>box' with the 360.
>
>
Useless if you cant get broadband where you live.
May 18, 2005 7:14:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega (More info?)

Then move. LOL
I couldn't imagine using dial-up again!

"GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:D 6esbg$bg4$1@news.xmission.com...
> In article <lqWdnWNSmtmkchffRVnysQ@pipex.net>, "Andrew Stirling"
> <andrewstirling@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>"Imperium" <frankmelo@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>news:f0pl81hplg2jphksu7jjj5240fr9kb1o29@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:31:28 GMT, Dog Bowl
>>> <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
>>>>gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com says...
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>> > Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
>>>>> > hardware and include them on the hard drive.
>>>>> > Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play
>>>>> halo
>>>>> for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just
>>>>> the
>>>>> code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same
>>>>> vids/music
>>>>> and textures from the original dvd.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thats pretty much what I expect too. Possibly a hybrid of x86 emulation,
>>>>new exe's, patches to replace Nvidia microcode and games that only use
>>>>DirectX calls with odd bits of translation too.
>>>
>>> Only about 10% of xbox owners use xbox live. Any form of emulation
>>> that requires you to download a patch doesn't seem like a good idea.
>>> On the other hand, if they plan on increasing the emulation list of
>>> games, XBL makes the most sense. Perhaps they can make the patches
>>> available on live but also make disks available for free through
>>> retailers.
>>>
>>> MS may also have the emulation patches installed on the HD, if it's
>>> included in the basic package.
>>
>>Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of the
>>box' with the 360.
>>
>>
> Useless if you cant get broadband where you live.
>
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:21:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Jim Campey" <ugvx@no.jfcsoft.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gr1n819424m0mm7n5gvqh14ktup8ntigmq@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:27:54 GMT, "Gordy" <gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com>
> wrote:

>>Sounds like the games are being individually recoded maybe so we gotta
>>get
>>the xbox360 version?
>
> If this is the case, then we should get some sort of trade-in. Like £5
> to get the 360 version if you bring in the old Xbox version :) 
>
> --
> Jim
>

Nah...it'll be emulation but they'll focus on the making sure the biggest
games work.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:35:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Andrew Stirling wrote:
> "Jim Campey" <ugvx@no.jfcsoft.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:gr1n819424m0mm7n5gvqh14ktup8ntigmq@4ax.com...
>
>>On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:27:54 GMT, "Gordy" <gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com>
>>wrote:
>
>
>>>Sounds like the games are being individually recoded maybe so we gotta
>>>get
>>>the xbox360 version?
>>
>>If this is the case, then we should get some sort of trade-in. Like £5
>>to get the 360 version if you bring in the old Xbox version :) 
>>
>>--
>>Jim
>>
>
>
> Nah...it'll be emulation but they'll focus on the making sure the biggest
> games work.
>
>

Since Xbox and 360 games are all developed in compatible environments,
most Xbox games should be able to be run with little more than a patch.
In a similar way to how Direct X games that were made for Win 98 can
run in XP with a patch.

--
Scott

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:43:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <lqWdnWNSmtmkchffRVnysQ@pipex.net>,
andrewstirling@clara.co.uk says...
>
> "Imperium" <frankmelo@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:f0pl81hplg2jphksu7jjj5240fr9kb1o29@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:31:28 GMT, Dog Bowl
> > <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >>In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
> >>gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com says...
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>> > Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
> >>> > hardware and include them on the hard drive.
> >>> > Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play
> >>> halo
> >>> for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
> >>> code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same
> >>> vids/music
> >>> and textures from the original dvd.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Thats pretty much what I expect too. Possibly a hybrid of x86 emulation,
> >>new exe's, patches to replace Nvidia microcode and games that only use
> >>DirectX calls with odd bits of translation too.
> >
> > Only about 10% of xbox owners use xbox live. Any form of emulation
> > that requires you to download a patch doesn't seem like a good idea.
> > On the other hand, if they plan on increasing the emulation list of
> > games, XBL makes the most sense. Perhaps they can make the patches
> > available on live but also make disks available for free through
> > retailers.
> >
> > MS may also have the emulation patches installed on the HD, if it's
> > included in the basic package.

Yep, that would tally up with the HD being standard at initial release.
On top of that a vunet article mentioned that one reason for the limited
compatibility is that the code is being recompiled and ported to the 360
and certification is taking a while. That would also match up with the
quotes on 6 weeks to port Xbox to 360, the Xbox HDD version being the
one with backwards compatbility .e.t.c Its not really backwards
compatible its just that some game exectutable images are ported to the
360 and you can use the graphics & map assets on the game disks.

>
> Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of the
> box' with the 360.
>

But then you need the broadband connection.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:46:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <KNMie.1065$6d.803@trnddc08>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
> Andrew Stirling wrote:
> > "Jim Campey" <ugvx@no.jfcsoft.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:gr1n819424m0mm7n5gvqh14ktup8ntigmq@4ax.com...
> >
> >>On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:27:54 GMT, "Gordy" <gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com>
> >>wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>Sounds like the games are being individually recoded maybe so we gotta
> >>>get
> >>>the xbox360 version?
> >>
> >>If this is the case, then we should get some sort of trade-in. Like £5
> >>to get the 360 version if you bring in the old Xbox version :) 
> >>
> >>--
> >>Jim
> >>
> >
> >
> > Nah...it'll be emulation but they'll focus on the making sure the biggest
> > games work.
> >
> >
>
> Since Xbox and 360 games are all developed in compatible environments,
> most Xbox games should be able to be run with little more than a patch.
> In a similar way to how Direct X games that were made for Win 98 can
> run in XP with a patch.
>

Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X thats
the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a
processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a
recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to
make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced
or run in some x86 virtual machine.

If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run
on IBM machines running Linux.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 1:49:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox (More info?)

Mattinglyfan (deez nuts) wrote:

> Damn skippy. They are gouging me. I can't wait for that Verizon
service to
> go national. Cheaper and faster.

Is DSl really faster? I thought that Cable has a higher maximum speed.
Regardless, I'm getting sick of being ripped off by my cable company
too. I don't think they would be charging $50/ month if they have a
competitor offering broadband service at $25/ month.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:31:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox (More info?)

"GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:D 6edni$1h6$1@news.xmission.com...
> In article <Gmrie.7097$X86.4342@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, "Gordy"
> <gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Dr Gordon Crowbar" <Justin@c.com> wrote in message
>>news:tIWdnWOm44G-kBffRVnyuA@pipex.net...
>>>
>>> <Radeon350@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1116307247.122031.252120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with Xbox games
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8273/Xbox-360-Details-Eme...
>>ss-Briefing/
>>>>
>>>> they will start with the most popular games and work their way down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sounds like emulation
>>>
>>> Just a crazy thought...
>>>
>>> Another way they could do it is to recompile some games for the new
>>> hardware and include them on the hard drive.
>>> Activation would be via inserting the original disk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>to be honest this has to be the way there doing it, if you wanna play halo
>>for example you gotta download the halo pach which is basically just the
>>code part of the game recompiled for 360 and it uses all the same
>>vids/music
>>and textures from the original dvd.
>>
>>Gordy
>>
>>
> Not everyone lives in an area that has broadband. Or like me, i do not
> want to
> pay comcast the unbeleivable $50 + price per month for cable modem.
>
>

Damn skippy. They are gouging me. I can't wait for that Verizon service to
go national. Cheaper and faster.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 7:51:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Dog Bowl wrote:
> In article <KNMie.1065$6d.803@trnddc08>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
>
>>Andrew Stirling wrote:
>
>
>
> Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X thats
> the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a
> processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a
> recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to
> make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced
> or run in some x86 virtual machine.
>
> If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run
> on IBM machines running Linux.

Right, and since Microsoft developed the environment to be compatible
with Direct X, it's possible they've already assembled the necessary
code to make most games play. I also wouldn't be surprised if their
comment on backward compatibility was a complete lie, but I can see both
possibilities. ;) 


--
Scott

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 10:43:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox (More info?)

"brun132001" <brun132001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116478147.763596.244010@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Mattinglyfan (deez nuts) wrote:
>
> > Damn skippy. They are gouging me. I can't wait for that Verizon
> service to
> > go national. Cheaper and faster.
>
> Is DSl really faster? I thought that Cable has a higher maximum speed.
> Regardless, I'm getting sick of being ripped off by my cable company
> too. I don't think they would be charging $50/ month if they have a
> competitor offering broadband service at $25/ month.

That sux.
My cable provider only charges 29.95 per month.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 12:26:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Dog Bowl" <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cf5abf8f594916f989822@news.cable.ntlworld.com...

>> Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of the
>> box' with the 360.
>>
>
> But then you need the broadband connection.

Possibly not for that. Ethernet to PC with a 56k connection might do the
trick for Silver. It would be slow but would get there in the end.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 9:02:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <v3Uie.1167$6d.411@trnddc02>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
> Dog Bowl wrote:
> > In article <KNMie.1065$6d.803@trnddc08>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
> >
> >>Andrew Stirling wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X thats
> > the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a
> > processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a
> > recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to
> > make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced
> > or run in some x86 virtual machine.
> >
> > If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run
> > on IBM machines running Linux.
>
> Right, and since Microsoft developed the environment to be compatible
> with Direct X, it's possible they've already assembled the necessary
> code to make most games play.

Apparently Halo 1& Halo 2. The problem is not Direct X its the nVidia
microcode. You need to look at how the code is developed on nVidia and
ATI chipsets. I doubt they will be using the HLS code for alot of newer
games. In many cases the Direct X command is not much more than "load
this microcode to graphics card" where as HLS is more compile this code
and load it (which would be OK to port).

> I also wouldn't be surprised if their
> comment on backward compatibility was a complete lie, but I can see both
> possibilities. ;) 
>

According to the latest news today the Xbox 360 is not backwards
compatbile at all. The code is having to be recompiled for the Xbox 360
and will use the orginal game discs for the assets (e.g. sound & maps).

It was said that Halo 1 & 2 are ported but thats it. I wouldn't be
supprised if there is a 3 or 5 quid download over live for the new exe's
for older games as they get ported.

I was wondering how they achieved backwards compatibility and now I
know. They didn't bother. Much better solution in the end.
May 20, 2005 3:29:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cf5acd517ec6333989823@news.cable.ntlworld.com>, Dog Bowl <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:
>In article <KNMie.1065$6d.803@trnddc08>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
>> Andrew Stirling wrote:
>> > "Jim Campey" <ugvx@no.jfcsoft.spam.co.uk> wrote in message=20
>> > news:gr1n819424m0mm7n5gvqh14ktup8ntigmq@4ax.com...
>> >=20
>> >>On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:27:54 GMT, "Gordy" <gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com>
>> >>wrote:
>> >=20
>> >=20
>> >>>Sounds like the games are being individually recoded maybe so we gotta=
>=20
>> >>>get
>> >>>the xbox360 version?
>> >>
>> >>If this is the case, then we should get some sort of trade-in. Like =A3=
>5
>> >>to get the 360 version if you bring in the old Xbox version :) 
>> >>
>> >>--=20
>> >>Jim
>> >>
>> >=20
>> >=20
>> > Nah...it'll be emulation but they'll focus on the making sure the bigge=
>st=20
>> > games work.=20
>> >=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> =09Since Xbox and 360 games are all developed in compatible environments,=
>=20
>> most Xbox games should be able to be run with little more than a patch.=
>=20
>> In a similar way to how Direct X games that were made for Win 98 can=20
>> run in XP with a patch.
>>=20
>
>Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X thats=20
>the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a=20
>processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a=20
>recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to=20
>make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced=20
>or run in some x86 virtual machine.
>
>If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run=20
>on IBM machines running Linux.
Well they easily made Voodoo chipset wrappers for Nvidia and ATI chipsets
years ago so if thats possible, i can see them making Nvidia wrappers for the
more powerfull ATI chip used in the 360
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 3:34:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Andrew Stirling" <andrewstirling@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:HNidneMuyc0yohHfRVnyuA@pipex.net...
>
> "Dog Bowl" <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1cf5abf8f594916f989822@news.cable.ntlworld.com...
>
>>> Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of
>>> the
>>> box' with the 360.
>>>
>>
>> But then you need the broadband connection.
>
> Possibly not for that. Ethernet to PC with a 56k connection might do the
> trick for Silver. It would be slow but would get there in the end.

I'm sorry, but your average guy with a 56K PC just isn't going to know where
to begin with the setup you describe.

And the cost of dial up... That's expensive!
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 4:11:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Dr Gordon Crowbar" <Justin@c.com> wrote in message
news:sLWdna9GfosViRDfRVnytA@pipex.net...
>
> "Andrew Stirling" <andrewstirling@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:HNidneMuyc0yohHfRVnyuA@pipex.net...
>>
>> "Dog Bowl" <dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1cf5abf8f594916f989822@news.cable.ntlworld.com...
>>
>>>> Remember that the silver version of Live is gonna be free and 'out of
>>>> the
>>>> box' with the 360.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But then you need the broadband connection.
>>
>> Possibly not for that. Ethernet to PC with a 56k connection might do the
>> trick for Silver. It would be slow but would get there in the end.
>
> I'm sorry, but your average guy with a 56K PC just isn't going to know
> where to begin with the setup you describe.
>
> And the cost of dial up... That's expensive!
>

It is only expensive if you use MSN or AOL dial up services. Most other
versions are about 10-14 bucks a month for unlimited service.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 8:03:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Dog Bowl wrote:
> In article <v3Uie.1167$6d.411@trnddc02>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
>
>>Dog Bowl wrote:
>>
>>>In article <KNMie.1065$6d.803@trnddc08>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Andrew Stirling wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X thats
>>>the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a
>>>processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a
>>>recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to
>>>make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced
>>>or run in some x86 virtual machine.
>>>
>>>If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run
>>>on IBM machines running Linux.
>>
>> Right, and since Microsoft developed the environment to be compatible
>>with Direct X, it's possible they've already assembled the necessary
>>code to make most games play.
>
>
> Apparently Halo 1& Halo 2. The problem is not Direct X its the nVidia
> microcode. You need to look at how the code is developed on nVidia and
> ATI chipsets. I doubt they will be using the HLS code for alot of newer
> games. In many cases the Direct X command is not much more than "load
> this microcode to graphics card" where as HLS is more compile this code
> and load it (which would be OK to port).
>
>
>> I also wouldn't be surprised if their
>>comment on backward compatibility was a complete lie, but I can see both
>>possibilities. ;) 
>>
>
>
> According to the latest news today the Xbox 360 is not backwards
> compatbile at all. The code is having to be recompiled for the Xbox 360
> and will use the orginal game discs for the assets (e.g. sound & maps).
>
> It was said that Halo 1 & 2 are ported but thats it. I wouldn't be
> supprised if there is a 3 or 5 quid download over live for the new exe's
> for older games as they get ported.
>
> I was wondering how they achieved backwards compatibility and now I
> know. They didn't bother. Much better solution in the end.

Backward compatibility done properly would have been a selling point
for me. Eh, at least now I can keep my word and end my gaming with the
current generation. They can have this thing they call gaming, I'll
collect the stuff I actually liked.


--
Scott

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 11:30:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <d6j7ig$b3u$1@news.xmission.com>, glenzabr@xmission.com
says...

<snip>
> >Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X thats=20

> >the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a=20
> >processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a=20
> >recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to=20
> >make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced=20
> >or run in some x86 virtual machine.
> >
> >If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run=20
> >on IBM machines running Linux.
> Well they easily made Voodoo chipset wrappers for Nvidia and ATI chipsets
> years ago so if thats possible, i can see them making Nvidia wrappers for the
> more powerfull ATI chip used in the 360

I guess then you have never written any microcode. Voodoo chip sets
don't have pixel or vertex shaders. If you understand them then you will
know why its a PITA. Even then the Voodoo chipset doesn't have hardware
T&L, which means that all you have to emulate is passing in is not much
more than vertex data as even the local->world->viewspace->viewport
transformation is performed in software.
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 5:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,rec.games.video.sega,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:D 6j7ig$b3u$1@news.xmission.com...
> In article <MPG.1cf5acd517ec6333989823@news.cable.ntlworld.com>, Dog Bowl
<dogUNDERSCOREbowl@ntlFOODworld.com> wrote:
> >In article <KNMie.1065$6d.803@trnddc08>, sheathx013@yahoo.com says...
> >> Andrew Stirling wrote:
> >> > "Jim Campey" <ugvx@no.jfcsoft.spam.co.uk> wrote in message=20
> >> > news:gr1n819424m0mm7n5gvqh14ktup8ntigmq@4ax.com...
> >> >=20
> >> >>On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:27:54 GMT, "Gordy"
<gordon_ashSP@Mntlworld.com>
> >> >>wrote:
> >> >=20
> >> >=20
> >> >>>Sounds like the games are being individually recoded maybe so we
gotta=
> >=20
> >> >>>get
> >> >>>the xbox360 version?
> >> >>
> >> >>If this is the case, then we should get some sort of trade-in. Like
=A3=
> >5
> >> >>to get the 360 version if you bring in the old Xbox version :) 
> >> >>
> >> >>--=20
> >> >>Jim
> >> >>
> >> >=20
> >> >=20
> >> > Nah...it'll be emulation but they'll focus on the making sure the
bigge=
> >st=20
> >> > games work.=20
> >> >=20
> >> >=20
> >>=20
> >> =09Since Xbox and 360 games are all developed in compatible
environments,=
> >=20
> >> most Xbox games should be able to be run with little more than a
patch.=
> >=20
> >> In a similar way to how Direct X games that were made for Win 98
can=20
> >> run in XP with a patch.
> >>=20
> >
> >Nearly and in many cases probably. The problem is its not Direct X
thats=20
> >the problem its the nVIDIA microcode. Add to that DirectX is not a=20
> >processor its just an API. Rather than a patch it will probably be a=20
> >recompile of the code after patches are applied to the source code to=20
> >make it work. Of course any x86 assembly code will have to be replaced=20
> >or run in some x86 virtual machine.
> >
> >If anything its more like how Unix software for HP-UX machines can run=20
> >on IBM machines running Linux.
> Well they easily made Voodoo chipset wrappers for Nvidia and ATI chipsets
> years ago so if thats possible, i can see them making Nvidia wrappers for
the
> more powerfull ATI chip used in the 360

They may have made those wrappers, but can you think of a single 3dfx native
game / engine which ran just as good with the wrappers?, I sure as hell
can't and I recall how a couple of them were downright broken or unplayable.
BC *has* to be perfect for it to be a selling or marketable point,
especially in the console world which can't be patched and fixed as easily
as the PC world, anything less just makes them look bad / lazy /
not-as-good-as-the-other-guys.

Wurm