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DCS465C- kodak digital back

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Anonymous
June 22, 2005 2:30:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Rather old digital back, but, the manual says it'll do ISO 80 with 18MB
color images, and ISO 160 in monochrome at 6MB images. For some
reason, this camera does 6MB color images at ISO 80. Theirs an 'ISO'
button, that your supposed to use to switch between ISO modes, but it
just stays at ISO 80. The camera has hardly been used. It's annoying.
any ideas?
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 4:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Do you relize that this camera cost $27K back in the mid-late 90's. I
worked in a studio with one, the photographer got it second hand for
$18K. We never shot B&W only color for catalogs. It needs a "hot
mirror" filter, doesn't have an infrared cut off over the chip. Without
the filter the color is way off. Also takes PCMCI hard drive cards for
storage, I believe they are still available. The B&W is probably in the
menu software, or with the Kodak Photo Desk software. We always shot
this tethered to a computer, at those price we'd shoot film outside.

Tom
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 12:35:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mikal" <accclass101@hotmail.com> writes:
> Rather old digital back,

Introduced in 1995.

> but, the manual says it'll do ISO 80 with 18MB color images, and ISO
> 160 in monochrome at 6MB images. For some reason, this camera does
> 6MB color images at ISO 80. Theirs an 'ISO' button, that your
> supposed to use to switch between ISO modes, but it just stays at
> ISO 80. The camera has hardly been used. It's annoying. any ideas?

You haven't RTFM careful enough :-) .

All Kodak DCS46xx backs used the Kodak "M6" 28 x 19 mm 6 Mpx sensor.
The DCS456c you've got is a colour version made to fit Hasselblad,
Sinar, etc. (with rather large crop).

The same sensor is used in the DCS460c back that attached to the the
Nikon F90s - and the spcs. are identical. You can see some data on
the DCS460c here: http://folk.uio.no/gisle/photo/dcs460.html .

The "c" in the DCS465c indicate you have the *colour* version.
There was also a DCS465m *monochrome* version. This was a
physically different unit (same M6 sensor, but the colour version
was manufactured with a Bayer colour filter array as an integral
part of the chip). Your manual actully describes two different
backs - not two different "modes" of the same back. There is no
way to convert between the DCS465c and DCS465m. Removing the Bayer
array will destroy the chip.

The Bayer filter array steals about one stop of light. Hence the
difference in ISO between the models. Despite the 'ISO' button
there is absolutely no way to change ISO (or to make it into a
monochrome sensor). You are stuck with colour and ISO 80.

As for image file size, the RAW TIFF files produced by the colour
back is 6 Mbyte. When you de-mosaic them to "standard" RGB TIFF
files, they become 18 Mbyte. If you read the manual, you'll notice
that it distinguishes between "unacquired" (i.e. RAW TIFF) and
acquired (i.e RGB TIFF) file sizes.

Btw.: The monochrome version is rare as hen's teeth. I'm looking for
one, and I've never seen one for sale that has been the genuine
article. (You sometimes see some fast operator claim they have the
mono version - but when I check - it turns out that what they offer is
a colour model bundled with some lame software to desaturate).
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Anonymous
June 23, 2005 1:05:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mikal" <accclass101@hotmail.com> writes:
> Rather old digital back,

Introduced in 1995.

> but, the manual says it'll do ISO 80 with 18MB color images, and ISO
> 160 in monochrome at 6MB images. For some reason, this camera does
> 6MB color images at ISO 80. Theirs an 'ISO' button, that your
> supposed to use to switch between ISO modes, but it just stays at
> ISO 80. The camera has hardly been used. It's annoying. any ideas?

You haven't RTFM careful enough :-) .

All Kodak DCS46xx backs used the Kodak "M6" 28 x 19 mm 6 Mpx sensor.
The DCS465c you've got is a colour version made to fit (via an
adapter) MF cameras with interchangable backs such as Hasselblad,
Sinar, etc.

The same sensor is used in the DCS460c back that attached to the the
Nikon F90s - and the spcs. are identical. You can see some data on
the DCS460c here: http://folk.uio.no/gisle/photo/dcs460.html .

The "c" in the DCS465c indicate you have the *colour* version.
There was also a DCS465m *monochrome* version. This was a
physically different unit (same M6 sensor, but the colour version
was manufactured with a Bayer colour filter array as an integral
part of the chip). Your manual actully describes two different
backs - not two different "modes" of the same back. There is no
way to convert between the DCS465c and DCS465m. Removing the Bayer
array will destroy the chip.

The Bayer filter array steals about one stop of light. Hence the
difference in ISO between the models. Despite the 'ISO' button
there is absolutely no way to change ISO (or to make it into a
monochrome sensor). You are stuck with colour and ISO 80.

As for image file size, the RAW TIFF files produced by the colour
back is 6 Mbyte. When you de-mosaic them to "standard" RGB TIFF
files, they become 18 Mbyte. If you read the manual, you'll notice
that it distinguishes between "unacquired" (i.e. RAW TIFF) and
acquired (i.e RGB TIFF) file sizes.

Btw.: The monochrome version is rare as hen's teeth. I'm looking for
one, and I've never seen one for sale that has been the genuine
article. (You sometimes see some fast operator claim they have the
mono version - but when I check - it turns out that what they offer is
a colour model bundled with some lame software to desaturate).
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:06:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Is there any way to "When you de-mosaic them to "standard" RGB TIFF
files, they become 18 Mbyte"??? What would you suggest for converting
this to a 'useable' color image???
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 3:11:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

So, I was able to download some stuff from deep inside kodaks
website... the Fill Format module, and the twain install module. The
twain will allow me to aquire from the camera through a scsi (haven't
tried this yet), and through a folder from my hard disk. The hard disk
option says that I'm missing the CAL file... I have this call file (I
dont have access to it right now). The plug-in, the Fill format
module, supposedly allows you to open the fill from the file-open menu,
just like any other file. However, when I do this, it says theres an
error in the program. Do I again need the cal file for this to work?
I've downloaded the SDK and can't seem to build it becuase it can open
"cannot open file "PDC_SDK_D.lib"... which is clearly there... Dont
know.
any ideas?
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:04:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mikal" <accclass101@hotmail.com> writes:
> Is there any way to "When you de-mosaic them to "standard" RGB TIFF
> files, they become 18 Mbyte"??? What would you suggest for
> converting this to a 'useable' color image???

I use Photoshop CS ACR. It does a great job on these files. Noise
is very well controlled. When converted, Photoshop let you save to
TIFF, JPEG, PNG, etc.

A low-cost alterntive i David Coffin's dcraw - it works just as well
as ACR, but has (IMHO) a rather awkward user interface.

The original Kodak software need an antique versions of Windows to
run. It is also pretty bad. For some reason the blue channel is
very noisy with this s/w.
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:17:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mikal" <accclass101@hotmail.com> writes:
> So, I was able to download some stuff from deep inside kodaks
> website... the Fill Format module, and the twain install module.
> The twain will allow me to aquire from the camera through a scsi
> (haven't tried this yet), and through a folder from my hard
> disk. The hard disk option says that I'm missing the CAL file... I
> have this call file (I dont have access to it right now). The
> plug-in, the Fill format module, supposedly allows you to open the
> fill from the file-open menu, just like any other file. However,
> when I do this, it says theres an error in the program. Do I again
> need the cal file for this to work? I've downloaded the SDK and
> can't seem to build it becuase it can open "cannot open file
> "PDC_SDK_D.lib"... which is clearly there... Dont know. any ideas?

What operating system are you using? (brand and version)
(The Kodak software is very difficult to get to work unless
you have an old computer configured with drivers and stuff
from 1995.)

The way I use the Kodak digital back is to use a PCMCIA type III
card in camera to record the images. I then attach this to a
PCMCIA slot on a PC running Windows/XP - where it appears as a
standard disk drive. I then copy (using drag & drop) the image
files from the card to my hard disk. I then just use Photoshop
to convert them to regular RGB files.

The Kodak software, the CAL file, TWAIN, SCSI, etc. is not needed
if you do things this way.
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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