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Does Radeon have anything good to be comparable to Nvidia?

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February 12, 2012 5:18:28 PM

This is my first time I went with AMD for video card (7970), and to be honest, I think I should have bought 580/590 GTX instead. I don't see any advantages of AMD over Nvidia at all, but I see a lot of disadvantages there...

1. No PhysX. And it's really bad. It is really disappointing that older generation Nvidia GPUs like 580 GTX run games like Batman, Metro 2033 and Rage with better picture quality and better performance.

2. Bad driver support. How can 2 Crossfire AMD GPUs run 20% slower than a single one of the same series in Batman: Arkham City?!

3. Noise level. Most of AMD GPUs are louder than their competitors from the same generation, consuming the same amount of power.

4. Looks. Why can't AMD make their video cards look a little bit better, just so it doesn't looks like a huge plastic box with a ridiculously small fan?

5. Yes and the fan. What's up with the same low performance little fan since 4xxx series? Is it ever gonna change (unless you buy a custom factory OC GPU I guess)?



I am not trying to be rude to people who loves AMD but there is one question bothers me since I got 7970:

Why AMD video cards, which are so much worse in general than Nvidia video cards, cost about the same?

And is there anything that AMD can offer that Nvidia doesn't?



Thank you.
a c 359 U Graphics card
a c 119 À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
February 12, 2012 7:09:39 PM

#1 & #2 - Physx is owned by nVidia, they will never license it to AMD. Batman uses Physx and they have been accused forcing game developers to use Physx coding designed to boost the performance of nVidia cards while crippling the performance of AMD cards. Not much AMD can do unless they can obtain hard evidence to file a lawsuit against nvidia for unethical and hostile business practices. See following for more information.

Physics hardware makes Kepler/GK104 fast (That is the marketing claim anyway)
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/02/01/physics-hardware-mak...

#3 - Can't offer any opinion on that. One of the things I research before purchasing a video card is the noise level in addition to power consumption and of course performance. Once I decide on an AMD or nVidia card I look for the quietest I can find. The Radeon HD 5850 with reference cooling is pretty quiet so it was pretty each to pick one. Back when the nVidia GeForce 9600 GT was released the quietest one I found was actually passively cooled by a large Arctic Cooling heatsink. It was a bit more expensive than other 9600GTs, but it was silent.

#4 - I don't really care what the card looks like. It's going to be inside a computer case. However, I will admit that I will never, ever by a pink Radeon HD 8000 series or GeForce GTX 700 series video card.

#5 - Can't really say anything regarding the fan for the HD 7970, the fan for my HD 5850 seems more than capable of cooling the card. I don't need to worry about the fan on my GeForce 9600 GT since it does not have one.


The Radeon HD 7970 is priced between the GTX 580 (~ $490) and the GTX 590 (~ $800) so you would expect the HD 7970's performance to be somewhere in between. Based on the following review the Radeon HD 7970 beats the GTX 580 in 12 or 13 out of 17 benchmarks @ 1920 x 1200 resolution. In some games the difference is not much like World of Warcraft and StarCraft 2 (the Radeon HD 7970 is faster) which basically means those games are not really GPU dependent when you toss in a very high performance card.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/20.html

I found it odd that the Radeon HD 7970 did extremely well in Skyrim @ 2560 x 1600 resolution beating it's closest competition (GTX 580, the GTX 590 ranked pretty low) by 25%.


Based on your rant it seems you rushed out to buy the HD 7970 without bothering to look at benchmarks. If you are dishing out so much money for a video card (or anything else) then you need to do research to find out what to expect. If you are specifically going to buy games that uses Physx (not many are being released), then you are definitely better off getting a nVidia card especially if nVidia is using it as a means to cripple the competition. Otherwise, the price of the Radeon HD 7970 seems to correctly reflect the overall performance of that video card.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2012 7:23:24 PM

Veirtimid said:
This is my first time I went with AMD for video card (7970), and to be honest, I think I should have bought 580/590 GTX instead. I don't see any advantages of AMD over Nvidia at all, but I see a lot of disadvantages there...

1. No PhysX. And it's really bad. It is really disappointing that older generation Nvidia GPUs like 580 GTX run games like Batman, Metro 2033 and Rage with better picture quality and better performance.

2. Bad driver support. How can 2 Crossfire AMD GPUs run 20% slower than a single one of the same series in Batman: Arkham City?!

3. Noise level. Most of AMD GPUs are louder than their competitors from the same generation, consuming the same amount of power.

4. Looks. Why can't AMD make their video cards look a little bit better, just so it doesn't looks like a huge plastic box with a ridiculously small fan?

5. Yes and the fan. What's up with the same low performance little fan since 4xxx series? Is it ever gonna change (unless you buy a custom factory OC GPU I guess)?



I am not trying to be rude to people who loves AMD but there is one question bothers me since I got 7970:

Why AMD video cards, which are so much worse in general than Nvidia video cards, cost about the same?

And is there anything that AMD can offer that Nvidia doesn't?



Thank you.


Its never a good idea to crossover to another GPU when you are a fanboi of a certain manufacturer. Right now the king of the GPUs is the 7970. Its a single card solution. Its also a very new architecture, if you had done any research or have any clue as to how rollouts go, youll know that drivers are bad whenever something new comes up. AMD or nvidia. And if you are gonna come here and complain about no PhysX on AMD cards, I mean really, how many games actually use it? 3 or 4? Im a fan of whatever is best when im ready to upgrade, it happened to be the 7970 from a 5870 which also was top of the line when i bought it 2.5 years ago or so. Never judge a vid card until it actually has some decent drivers to support. Right now the 7900 drivers are beta. Performance, and compatibility will only get better.
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February 13, 2012 12:52:10 AM

vrumor said:
Its never a good idea to crossover to another GPU when you are a fanboi of a certain manufacturer. Right now the king of the GPUs is the 7970. Its a single card solution. Its also a very new architecture, if you had done any research or have any clue as to how rollouts go, youll know that drivers are bad whenever something new comes up. AMD or nvidia. And if you are gonna come here and complain about no PhysX on AMD cards, I mean really, how many games actually use it? 3 or 4? Im a fan of whatever is best when im ready to upgrade, it happened to be the 7970 from a 5870 which also was top of the line when i bought it 2.5 years ago or so. Never judge a vid card until it actually has some decent drivers to support. Right now the 7900 drivers are beta. Performance, and compatibility will only get better.


People go with a certain manufacturer because they like some of its unique features or appreciate it for something special no one else can offer on the market. So the reason I was going with Nvidia all the time before is because it has something unique that AMD cannot offer:

- PhysX, and it is not just 3-4 games as you said, here is the link with full PhysX games list http://developer.nvidia.com/physx-games

- Very good driver support even for their fresh GPUs

- And I forgot to metion in the topic - Nvidia 3D Vision, which is way ahead of AMD's 3DHD http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-3d-vision-h...

And the reason I went with AMD this time is simple - it's a fresh tech and best single GPU for the moment as you said, I didn't want to buy something that is almost a year old (580GTX). I like 7970 performance, it is not like I hate this or that particular brand or something (sorry if I offended any AMD fanboys' feelings...), but AMD has nothing unique to offer, I see AMD cards as a cut down versions of Nvidia cards. Plus Nvidia GPUs always beat same generation AMD cards, example 580 GTX>6970 and 590 GTX>6990, same will happen with Nvidia 6xx vs. AMD 7xxx series
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a c 109 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
February 13, 2012 12:55:18 AM

In terms of loudness, have you ever heard of iceqx?
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a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2012 1:15:47 AM

You complain about not having physx on an AMD card...

You complain about noise levels when you most likely are using a stock cooler that will be instantly replaced with quieter models given time and when the companies get the go ahead.

You also complain about bad driver support when the card has only been out for about a month.

The fact of the matter is, you can use 3 screens on one card, cant do that with nvidia, the rest of your bickering is standard with new releases of cards even for nvidia (and iirc amd gpus are quite a bit cheaper then nvidia)

99% of the things you complain about are things that can be solved with a simple google search

and complaining about the look is just simply nit picking, not my fault you cant custom mod a cooler, or atleast paint it... I mean, if you really care that much about something most people will never see.
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a c 92 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
February 13, 2012 1:22:32 AM

this is why you check the games you play first before buying a card.
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a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2012 1:31:07 AM

Hummm i smell a fanboy.

yup this thread stinks of it in fact.

to 95% of people on this site performance is what matters.
at different price levels either Nvidia or ATI offers the best bang for their buck.

I have never had much of a driver problem personally. and often its upto the game maker to release a patch, not a fault of the card developer.

btw mouse24 nvidia has their "Surround" to multi-monitor gaming.

@Veirtimid
they release their products in opposition to eachother.

yes the GTX 5xx may be slightly better than the ATI 6xxx but its a rolling scale

ATI 6xxx < GTX 5xx <ATI 7xxx <GTX6xx <ATI 8xxx

and so on it will go until the end of time.
all depends on what is out at the time you have your cash in hand.

so comparing the ATI6xxx with GTX5xx dosnt work the tech was created & released at different times.

they dont magiclly both release their flagship cards at the exact same time. they can be many months apart.

currently most people buying high end cards will be getting ATI 7xxx as its the best at this point in time.

few months later it may be the GTX6xx then a few months later again it will be ATI 8xxx and so it goes on.
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a b U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
February 13, 2012 1:35:53 AM

Well from what I can see your entire post is nothing but flame bate. That said I can tell you my 6950 performs very well in every game you listed and in ultra/high. I have had zero driver problems with any AMD card I have owned.

With case cooling the card will not run that loud but my guess is you stuck a high end card into a case that has very bad cooling and then blamed it on the card witch comes down to the fact you do not know what your doing in the first place no surprise there.

Arkham City runs very well on my system if it is not on yours it is not the GPU but the rest of your system that is just not up to it because it runs very well on AMD hardware.

I am running 2x HD 6950 in Crossfire and have never had a problem with the fans being to loud but then I have proper cooling in my case.
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February 13, 2012 2:05:18 AM

:) ) Sure, whatever, call me a fanboy, I don't mind.

I asked the question about any advantages of AMD over Nvidia, but I guess there is none...

amuffin, just looked video about iceqx 6850 on youtube, wonder when HIS IceQX will be released on 7xxx series.

mouse24, lack of PhysX and bad 3DHD on AMD can be solved by using google search?:)  Gotta show me how you can do it.

bryonhowley, Batman runs great on my 7970, the thing is it doesn't looks as good as it would look on Nvidia cards.
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a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2012 2:09:38 AM

Veirtimid said:
:) ) Sure, whatever, call me a fanboy, I don't mind.

I asked the question about any advantages of AMD over Nvidia, but I guess there is none...

amuffin, just looked video about iceqx 6850 on youtube, wonder when HIS IceQX will be released on 7xxx series.

mouse24, lack of PhysX and bad 3DHD on AMD can be solved by using google search?:)  Gotta show me how you can do it.

bryonhowley, Batman runs great on my 7970, the thing is it doesn't looks as good as it would look on Nvidia cards.



I pointed out the fact that a single google search would have yielded that AMD cards do not natively support Physx yet you still complain that it doesn't have it. Your fault, not AMDs.
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a c 92 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
February 13, 2012 2:10:33 AM

sell your cards. Im sure you can get enough to buy nvidia cards and you can then stop complaining.

radeons are better in a lot of ways, if you can't see them. They may not be for you.
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February 13, 2012 2:11:49 AM

esrever said:
sell your cards. Im sure you can get enough to buy nvidia cards and you can then stop complaining.

radeons are better in a lot of ways, if you can't see them. They may not be for you.

Do you mind to tell me more about any of those ways? Just want to start seeing some, really.
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February 13, 2012 2:14:04 AM

mouse24 said:
I pointed out the fact that a single google search would have yielded that AMD cards do not natively support Physx yet you still complain that it doesn't have it. Your fault, not AMDs.

Oh, I knew about AMD doesn't have a PhysX, I just wanted to ask if it has anything good like it that Nvidia doesn't have.
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a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2012 2:14:22 AM

Geeee what is your problem what are you 12?
I was nvidia fan since Geforce2Mx times till GTX285...then I bought 6950 card and first thing I noticed was that games looked much much better. Then I flashed it to 6970 and was so happy that I got 3 more afterwards. Never been more happier with video card than with radeon.
Bryon might be right your case could have bad cyrculation which makes card fan spin high to cool the card. Most of the reviews are very positive when it comes to temps and noice.
Anyway if you so much hate everything about your card sell it on ebay or amazon and get nvidia card if that is what you want and stop bragging about. You will sell it in a flash for sure.
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a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2012 2:18:48 AM

Nvidia has PhysX which is cool. AMD has Eyefinity, which is probably just as cool if not cooler. So depends what you want out of your system. Want to game on massive screen real estate with good frames and pretty eye candy AMD would be the way to go. Want to go 3d, then I guess nvidia. Each card has their pros and cons.
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a c 359 U Graphics card
a c 119 À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
February 13, 2012 2:50:18 AM

Veirtimid said:


- PhysX, and it is not just 3-4 games as you said, here is the link with full PhysX games list http://developer.nvidia.com/physx-games


If you read what I wrote I stated "being released" as in new games to be released this year. The list of games in that nVidia link seems impressive until you realize that most of those are old games. Additionally, if you think about how many games that does not use PhysX at all that's an even longer list.

I believe Mass Effect 2 and Alice: Madness Returns both supports PhysX so it is strange that they have been excluded from nVidia's list unless the support is not official. Or they neglected to add them.

Some recent popular games that do not use PhysX:

Crysis 2
Battlefield 2
Skyrim
Star Wars: TOR
Portal 2
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Rift
Assassins Creed: Brotherhood (to the best of my knowledge)


Veirtimid said:

- Very good driver support even for their fresh GPUs


I can't argue that point especially for people who bought the Radeon HD 79xx cards. Drivers should be final by the time a video is released. I guess the silver lining is that at this point the Radeon HD 79xx's performance can only increase as the drivers matures.

Veirtimid said:

- And I forgot to metion in the topic - Nvidia 3D Vision, which is way ahead of AMD's 3DHD http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-3d-vision-h...


Only important to those who wants to play games in 3D. At least for me it is not important. If you want to play 3D, then nothing is stopping you from going with nVidia

Veirtimid said:

And the reason I went with AMD this time is simple - it's a fresh tech and best single GPU for the moment as you said, I didn't want to buy something that is almost a year old (580GTX). I like 7970 performance, it is not like I hate this or that particular brand or something (sorry if I offended any AMD fanboys' feelings...), but AMD has nothing unique to offer, I see AMD cards as a cut down versions of Nvidia cards. Plus Nvidia GPUs always beat same generation AMD cards, example 580 GTX>6970 and 590 GTX>6990, same will happen with Nvidia 6xx vs. AMD 7xxx series


It's always a leap frogging game. When AMD releases their cards, they will perform better than nVidia cards. When nVidia releases their cards, they will perform better than AMD cards. When AMD releases their next series of video cards the cycle starts again. You could have just waited for Kepler to play Batman since you were griping about the lack of PhysX support in Radeon cards; a technology that is owned by nVidia.
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February 13, 2012 8:33:23 PM

Best answer selected by Veirtimid.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a c 171 Î Nvidia
February 13, 2012 9:29:46 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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