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Gaming at 30fps (double frames,stuttering) PC

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 14, 2012 9:04:09 AM

Hi.
1) I notice that playing at 30 or below 50fps most games makes double frames,when i rotate camera the image is very unclear and it looks like two same frames are displayed at the same time or maybe last frame is still not cleared from the monitor and another goes on top. Why this is happening?Is there any solution to avoid this ? another thing I notice when playing on a console at 30fps double frames are far less noticeable.
here i made good example of double frames or whatever it is . At the beginning you will see 60fps then 30fps and again 60fps
http://dc117.2shared.com/download/1oiW1udn/Skyrim60fps3...

2) second question is . why when I'm playing at 50Hz I'm getting 50fps,when at 60Hz=60fps but when at 30Hz I'm getting 60fps not 30fps ?
February 14, 2012 11:31:32 AM

Whats your system? And did u turn off vsync, and triple buffer?
February 14, 2012 11:46:59 AM

phenom x4 955BE, HD6870, 4Gb ram , I've tried with normal Vsync and Triple buffering, no difference. But i do not prefer to play without Vsync because of screen tearing ,Skyrim has most stuttering ,but other games looks similar if i cap my fps to 30 . I can run Skyrim and other games fine 50-60fps but i want to know why console can run games fine at 30fps and PC can't
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February 14, 2012 12:14:20 PM

In Skyrim, this occurs because you have vsync enabled. Your system renders the game at ABOVE 60fps, but doesn't display every frame it has rendered and thus it "skips" frames and you experience mouse/controller stuttering.

Basically, you have this problem because you have vsync enabled. The only solution to get rid of it in Skyrim is to disable vsync. Screen tearing isn't that bad in Skyrim without vsync anyways.

Dunno why you would get 60fps at 30Hz but why in the world would you ever lower your monitor's refresh rate to 30Hz? That's gotta look awful...

I'm going to choose to ignore your last question about "why console can run games fine at 30fps and PC can't"... that's an incredibly ignorant question, especially considering that you already have seen your PC run the game at 60fps.
February 14, 2012 12:51:55 PM

actually i solved frame skipping problem in skyrim using msi afterburner frame limiter ,setting my desktop at 1080p 50hz to match in game resolution 1080p and limiting my fps to 50 via afterburner frame limiter. but the problem with this double frame(stuttering) appears in almost every game if fps is capped to lower .I don't like when games are unstable and frames jumping 60-30-60 so i often using frame limiter for stability ,but the problem is that many games looks horrible on lower frames than 50fps that's why i compared PC to Console because i had one a year ago and games are smooth but when tried to play at 30fps on a PC it's really pain to my eyes and I'm trying to find out what causes this . I think just Crysis 1 runs very smooth at 30fps
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2012 1:08:02 PM

The reason you get 50fps at 50hz and 60fps at 60hz is because Hz is measured as cycles per second. So the screen is changing 50 / 60 times per second. Your GPU can measure this, so it matches the frame rate, with the refresh rate of the screen, since native rates give the best display.

The reason it goes back to 60fps at 30hz is because the computer realizes that 30fps is not ideal, so it does easy math, and doubles the fps, knowing that it will just drop every other frame.

What kind of monitor are you using? It almost sounds like the monitor's response time can't keep up, so it still has leftover frames that haven't completely cleared when it is drawing the next frame.
February 14, 2012 1:08:43 PM

laimis911 said:
actually i solved frame skipping problem in skyrim using msi afterburner frame limiter ,setting my desktop at 1080p 50hz to match in game resolution 1080p and limiting my fps to 50 via afterburner frame limiter. but the problem with this double frame(stuttering) appears in almost every game if fps is capped to lower .I don't like when games are unstable and frames jumping 60-30-60 so i often using frame limiter for stability ,but the problem is that many games looks horrible on lower frames than 50fps that's why i compared PC to Console because i had one a year ago and games are smooth but when tried to play at 30fps on a PC it's really pain to my eyes and I'm trying to find out what causes this . I think just Crysis 1 runs very smooth at 30fps


Crysis 1 feels smooth at 30fps because of the motion blur effect, which blurs the choppiness of 30fps.

In games other than Skyrim, this "frame jumping" is due to your system being unable to constantly pump out 60fps. If you enable vsync and cannot constantly keep up with your monitor's refresh rate, you will experience what you describe as "frame jumping" from 30fps to 60fps. This is why most PC gamers don't like vsync.

You don't notice this in Crysis, because your system is never (at least with any consistency) going to produce 60fps, so there's no jumping and 30fps (combined with the motion blur) feels smooth.
February 14, 2012 1:53:18 PM

@BigMack70
okay so maybe there is some misunderstanding because lack of my English, maybe I'm speaking a little bit unclear but what i want to point out is that the almost every PC game looks bad if you running below 50fps while somehow consoles has ability to run smooth every single game at 30fps even if my monitor is set to 60Hz . I'm understand what you are saying and i know all this well but there is more to it not just motion blur and other effects to trick my eyes . even my video shows how bad skyrim looks at 30fps while console version of this game is locked exactly at 30fps and looks good. Maybe somehow Windows are related to this problem,because console doesn't have any Windows while PC games at first goes through windows system and then to monitor .
February 14, 2012 2:15:49 PM

30fps is 30fps - it looks the same no matter what

What you are probably perceiving is jumps in framerate. When the framerate jumps around, your eyes perceive it to be less smooth than it actually is. So, 30fps constant can look smoother than a system jumping back and forth between 30-50fps, even though the actual performance of the latter system is better.

To simulate the effect on a console, play Halo for a while (which runs at ~30fps), then play Modern Warfare for a while (~60fps) and then pop Halo back in. Most likely, Halo will seem smoother to you the first time than the last.
February 14, 2012 2:39:35 PM

Trolling?
February 14, 2012 2:41:18 PM

well what i notice when i had console is that the games at 30fps are slower for the eyes but they are all smooth no matter is it 30fps or 60fps,on a PC side 30fps means almost unplayable. for example Deus Ex : Human Revolution on consoles this game is locked at 30fps while on PC you have to play it at 50Hz=50fps or 60Hz=60fps ,I've tried to experiment and to lock this game at 30fps to see what image result is and it was unplayable. And jumps in frame rates in this game was not the case,because my locked 30fps never dipped below or jumped higher it was constant 30 fps .
February 14, 2012 2:50:48 PM

Sorry to disappoint, but 30fps is 30fps is 30fps... no matter what system you're on. Sounds like you're suffering from:

1) Placebo effect
2) Trolololololol effect
3) (tiny chance) A terrible PC monitor
February 14, 2012 2:52:07 PM

what kind of cable are you using to connect to your monitor? It sounds like your monitor cant handle the resolution and frequency your pushing it at- like someone said earlier.
February 14, 2012 3:01:33 PM

I'm using HDMI cable ,maybe really the problem is my monitor because I'm not using standard PC monitor ,I'm using full HD Tv
February 14, 2012 3:08:40 PM

laimis911 said:
I'm using HDMI cable ,maybe really the problem is my monitor because I'm not using standard PC monitor ,I'm using full HD Tv


....Thats some important info there.. now is this a plasma, or LCD? can you give us some information on the TV?
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2012 3:10:39 PM

btw... the HDMI interface is maxed at ~30fps
February 14, 2012 3:23:00 PM

@thespieler
My TV is LCD and i can't give any info of this TV because it is one of those rare TVs,it was built in my country where I live and the parts were made in China,Japan or Korea I don't remember

@itzdanielp
My TV supports only HDMI and VGA cables ,via VGA cable the whole screen is very blurry ,what is the best cable to use ?
February 14, 2012 3:27:48 PM

itzdanielp said:
btw... the HDMI interface is maxed at ~30fps

And what are you talking about? Even the first generation of HDMI cables are able to support up to 1920 x1200 at 60hz.
February 14, 2012 3:30:54 PM

laimis911 said:
@thespieler
My TV is LCD and i can't give any info of this TV because it is one of those rare TVs,it was built in my country where I live and the parts were made in China,Japan or Korea I don't remember

@itzdanielp
My TV supports only HDMI and VGA cables ,via VGA cable the whole screen is very blurry ,what is the best cable to use ?


....................Get a new monitor.. end of story. and HDMI is the better one to use of the two.
February 14, 2012 3:35:54 PM

Hm on second thought it can't be my monitor because if you watched my video of skyrim you wouldn't notice the stuttering only i could if my TV is the problem ,but i think the stuttering was obvious
February 14, 2012 3:38:59 PM

thespieler said:
....................Get a new monitor.. end of story. and HDMI is the better one to use of the two.
i'll try to play anything on my friends monitor to see if there is any difference before buying a new one .
February 17, 2012 10:18:42 PM

here is another video ,game called Deus Ex: Human Revolution locked at 30fps same double image effect if anybody can see this stuttering then it's for sure not because of my bad monitor like @thespieler wrote

http://www.mediafire.com/?7fvnx1tnae56sb9
February 20, 2012 3:06:26 PM

Please test with a different monitor, it must be the video card trying to synchronize with your monitor, it doesnt appear to be the graphics cards fault, or even bad drivers. I was reading earlier posts again, and you said you cap your FPS's at 30, can you explain how and why you are doing this?
February 21, 2012 5:49:54 PM

thespieler said:
Please test with a different monitor, it must be the video card trying to synchronize with your monitor, it doesnt appear to be the graphics cards fault, or even bad drivers. I was reading earlier posts again, and you said you cap your FPS's at 30, can you explain how and why you are doing this?
Okay today I've tested with my old monitor LG LCD ,same thing . Today I even changed my windows OS from 7 to XP to see if the problem is not related to my OS- and no ,had to install windows 7 again because XP showed same artifact. It's seems that something bad is inside my PC . Okay I'm using fps limiters to have steady frames ,I don't like when FPS goes crazy like jumping 60-30-60 so there is a few programs which can limit FPS in games you can use : Dxtory, Bandicam or MSI Afterburner 2.2.0 Beta 10(which also has built in fps limiter,but need some reading how to use it,nothing hard)so basically all these programs(video recorders)and can improve stability in games by capping(without recording) average FPS or whatever fps you need ,and then you can play smoother . I never heard that anybody had problems by limiting ,but my problem is when i capping then that doubling image appears . If i uncapping then that doubling is less noticeable because fps jumping up and down again and i hate that. Limiting is also good and reduces lag because your system doesn't have to work hard at full power. GPU and CPU temps are much lower .

even in this random video (not mine) recorded by someone i see that doubling . watch few seconds till cinematic movie begins . when he turns camera around, i see that doubling in video,all buildings and edges goes double on my screen,I doubt that you see this on your system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SnbnAQ7bvs&t=3m35s
February 22, 2012 4:03:42 PM

what I noticed in that video was SCREEN TEARING, this goes away when VSYNC is enabled. if your video card is NOT powerful enough to play the game at your computers native refresh rate, VSYNC will not do anything! Either change your monitors refresh rate and enable VYSNC or upgrade your video card. Do not play with FPS limiters unless they are marked ABOVE your monitors native resolution.
February 27, 2012 12:57:47 PM

thespieler said:
what I noticed in that video was SCREEN TEARING, this goes away when VSYNC is enabled. if your video card is NOT powerful enough to play the game at your computers native refresh rate, VSYNC will not do anything! Either change your monitors refresh rate and enable VYSNC or upgrade your video card. Do not play with FPS limiters unless they are marked ABOVE your monitors native resolution.
I think HD 6870 has enough power . I don't have any problems with Vsync in games .what you described this is not the case for me. I'm not a noob at those things ,I notice that people trying to tell me what I already know years ago . Thanks anyway for your time trying to help.
!