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Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Hi,

I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points into
direction window where there are beautiful trees outside. Unfortunately
the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed on the
shot. What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
Thank you for some tips.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Glen Martyn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points into
> direction window where there are beautiful trees outside. Unfortunately
> the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed on the
> shot. What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
> room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
> Thank you for some tips.

Hi Glen...

I'm far from a pro; barely qualify as a snapshot guy, but
am pretty sure that a flash is going to 'destroy' the window. :) 

Best bet I can come up with is trying to pick the precise
time of day that the ambient outdoor light is just right.
(early morning or late evening sun, perhaps when the sun
is just arriving or leaving the horizon)

Hopefully the pro's will have better ideas, in which case
we'll both learn :) 

Take care.

Ken
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Glen Martyn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points
> into direction window where there are beautiful trees outside.
> Unfortunately the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks
> overexposed on the shot. What would be the best technique to take the
> shot with having the room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
> Thank you for some tips.

1 - Try fill-in flash, but avoid the camera seeing a direct reflection of
the flash, so make the picture at an angle to the window, not straight on.
Bounce flash?

2 - You could take two pictures (if the camera is on a tripod to keep the
viewpoint the same), one picture exposed for the room, and one exposed for
outside, and combine the pictures in post-processing.

Cheers,
David
Related resources
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:14:16 +1000, Glen Martyn <gcaesar@gmx.net>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points into
>direction window where there are beautiful trees outside. Unfortunately
>the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed on the
>shot. What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
>room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
>Thank you for some tips.

Take on shot correctly exposed for outside view. Then take one for the
inside of the room and then merge them in Photoshop with layers.

You'll need a tripod of course for this.


*********************************************************

"I have been a witness, and these pictures are
my testimony. The events I have recorded should
not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

-James Nachtwey-
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Glen Martyn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points
> into direction window where there are beautiful trees outside.
> Unfortunately the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks
> overexposed on the shot. What would be the best technique to take the
> shot with having the room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?

Of course. Lots easier than applying neutral density film to the
windows.

Your other alternative is a properly exposed shot of each - camera on
tripod - and a photo editing program to merge the two.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Glen Martyn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points
> into direction window where there are beautiful trees outside.
> Unfortunately the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks
> overexposed on the shot. What would be the best technique to take the
> shot with having the room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
> Thank you for some tips.

Fill in flash will work, but it can be a little tricky. Reflections can
be a problem matching exposure can be a problem (very likely your built in
flash will have a very difficult time providing enough light to match the
window light.

You have a digital camera and that gives you another solution. David
and John explained that one well

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:14:16 +1000, Glen Martyn <gcaesar@gmx.net>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points into
>direction window where there are beautiful trees outside. Unfortunately
>the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed on the
>shot. What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
>room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
>Thank you for some tips.

Depending on how dark thre room is, that could take a huge flash!

Take two pics, one exposed for the room, one exposed for the window
(both from a tripod, so the picures are the same except for the
exposures), and combine them in your editing software.
Mask the window out of the first, reverse the mask for the second,
combine the two, and you've got a picture with both the room and the
window exposed right.

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Use manual settings:

These are the settings of the photo I took in similar conditions.


YCbCrPositioning - Centered
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/500 seconds
FNumber - 4.00
ExifVersion - 220
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/501 seconds
ApertureValue - F 4.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.80
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Flash fired, compulsory flash mode, red-eye reduction mode
FocalLength - 7.81 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 100
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 1.00 x
SceneCaptureType - Portrait
Quality - Superfine
Flash mode - On + red-eye reduction
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - Single
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Portrait
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
ISO Value - Auto
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
Focal length - 250 - 749 mm
Flash activity - Fired
Sequence number - 0
White Balance - Auto


Martin
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

I have never had much luck with the merging of two photos method, it
kind of works but the window frame always ends up looking just a bit
odd.

I have had a fair bit of luck with using a fill flash, like this photo
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106/original

This will show you the full exif data on how the shot was done, at the
bottom of the photo
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106&exif=Y

I find it interesting the so many people have given advice on how to do
this kind of shot but nobody it showing examples, some example of what
you are talking about would be a large help.

Scott
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:14:16 +1000, Glen Martyn wrote:

> What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
> room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?

Besides the other suggestions, another technique would be to
equalize the inside and outside brightnesses as much as possible.
If you're relying on a single flash, the indoor illumination will
probably be uneven, depending on what parts of the room will be
included in the picture. You could instead use as much fluorescent
lighting as possible (a much better color match to the outside than
tungsten), and then wait. Wait for the late afternoon when the sun
goes down far enough to balance the indoor and outdoor illumination.
The brighter you can make it indoors, the sooner you can take the
pictures, which will preserve as much as possible the quality of the
outdoor light. If you don't mind the more greatly lengthened
shadows and other changes to the light that occur as evening
approaches, you could get by with less indoor lighting. Since the
lights would be set up well in advance, you'd have plenty of time to
position them so as to minimize/eliminate reflections in the window.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Glen Martyn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points into
> direction window where there are beautiful trees outside. Unfortunately
> the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed on the
> shot. What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
> room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
> Thank you for some tips.

In addition to the other suggestions, here is a technique that can use
just one exposure, and may not need flash:
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/highlight_recover...

A simpler technique I sometimes use is to take a Raw photograph, then
process it twice in the Raw converter. Make these different conversions
into two layers in Photoshop (or whatever), then delete PARTS of the
top layer, exposing the layer underneath.

The different conversions may involve the following, and more, although
only the 1st (and last?) is relevant to this case:

- Different settings for "exposure" and/or "shadows" in ACR, or the
equivalent in other converters. The room layer may drive its window
part of the image into clipping, but you delete the latter and show the
unclipped or recovered windows layer through.

- Different settings for noise reduction. You may use a high ISO
setting to photograph animals, but noise reduction may damage their fur
texture. Use no noise reduction for their fur, and lots of noise
reduction for the background, and delete the latter layer where the
animal is.

- Different settings for lens aberrations. This may be useful if
foreground and background parts of the image need different settings to
reduce aberration. Perhaps with wide-angle zoom lens at the widest
setting.

- Different white balance settings. Adjust the WB in one case for
(say)tungsten, and the other for daylight.

This technique may not be as good as the others for what you want, but
it is worth knowing for the cases where you really have to rely on a
single exposure.

--
Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
http://www.birdsandanimals.info/
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

With the 10d All you have to do is point the camera out the window, depress
the shutter button half way, until you get a meter reading. Then, as you
hold the shutter button half way down push the "star button " by your right
thumb. This will lock the exposure for outside. Now allow your flash to do
the inside exposure..
"Glen Martyn" <gcaesar@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d27f5a4b0cfe9c8989699@news.qld.westnet.com.au...
> Hi,
>
> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points into
> direction window where there are beautiful trees outside. Unfortunately
> the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed on the
> shot. What would be the best technique to take the shot with having the
> room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
> Thank you for some tips.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> 2 - You could take two pictures (if the camera is on a tripod to keep the
> viewpoint the same), one picture exposed for the room, and one exposed for
> outside, and combine the pictures in post-processing.

That's my choice. Avoids complex strobe setup.

--
Mark

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Scott W wrote:
> I have never had much luck with the merging of two photos method, it
> kind of works but the window frame always ends up looking just a bit
> odd.
>
> I have had a fair bit of luck with using a fill flash, like this
> photo
> http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106/original
>
> This will show you the full exif data on how the shot was done, at
> the
> bottom of the photo
> http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106&exif=Y
>
> I find it interesting the so many people have given advice on how to
> do this kind of shot but nobody it showing examples, some example of
> what you are talking about would be a large help.
>


Sloth. I did some that worked good, but they are in storage. Easier to
add a link where the principles are explicated and demonstrated:
http://www.larry-bolch.com/layers.htm

--
Frank ess
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

"Scott W" <biphoto@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119714352.113111.296580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have never had much luck with the merging of two photos method, it
> kind of works but the window frame always ends up looking just a bit
> odd.
>
> I have had a fair bit of luck with using a fill flash, like this photo
> http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106/original
>
> This will show you the full exif data on how the shot was done, at the
> bottom of the photo
> http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106&exif=Y
>
> I find it interesting the so many people have given advice on how to do
> this kind of shot but nobody it showing examples, some example of what
> you are talking about would be a large help.
>
> Scott

I think your advice is the best compromise and easiest to perform. You just
have to be able to adjust the bounce flash to match the windows.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

> > I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. Unfortunately
> > the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks overexposed...
******************************************************************
Light up the room as best you can and take a meter reading of it. Get up in
the morning and wait till the outside reading is the same or thereabouts.
Mount camera on tripod and shoot. Nothing to it. Ric in Wisconsin.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:14:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

Frank ess wrote:
> Scott W wrote:
>> I have never had much luck with the merging of two photos method,
>> it
>> kind of works but the window frame always ends up looking just a
>> bit
>> odd.
>>
>> I have had a fair bit of luck with using a fill flash, like this
>> photo
>> http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106/original
>>
>> This will show you the full exif data on how the shot was done, at
>> the
>> bottom of the photo
>> http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/45276106&exif=Y
>>
>> I find it interesting the so many people have given advice on how
>> to
>> do this kind of shot but nobody it showing examples, some example
>> of
>> what you are talking about would be a large help.
>>
>
>
> Sloth. I did some that worked good, but they are in storage. Easier
> to
> add a link where the principles are explicated and demonstrated:
> http://www.larry-bolch.com/layers.htm


OK, here is a set of three made in haste to gift the across-the-street
folks with a photo of their Christmas lights:
http://www.fototime.com/inv/5D02064DBD88223 Three photos from a
tripod.

Here are three versions of a single photo, a through-the-windscreen
effort. In the actual exposure Minolta Dimmidge Xt), foreground detail
was buried:
http://www.fototime.com/2C154491532DCA7/orig.jpg

Opening up the foreground lost the sky's definition and impact:
http://www.fototime.com/1A6813286BD91C7/orig.jpg

Adding a layer of each of the foregoing and erasing the faded sky made
it much more like what I saw:
http://www.fototime.com/D101F3C8FC83D89/orig.jpg

--
Frank ess
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 9:07:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,alt.photography (More info?)

In article <U2jve.27922$X57.840056@news20.bellglobal.com>, "JME"
<jason.elliott(NOSPAM)@sympatico.ca> says...
> With the 10d All you have to do is point the camera out the window, depress
> the shutter button half way, until you get a meter reading. Then, as you
> hold the shutter button half way down push the "star button " by your right
> thumb. This will lock the exposure for outside. Now allow your flash to do
> the inside exposure..

Thank you everybody.
I have 2 flashes (550 and 430).
Jason, your advice was the one I was after.
I was reading something about it in the manual but didn't quite get it.

Thanks again everybody- very helpful tips.
June 27, 2005 3:56:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <H1dve.56196$G8.35857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, david-
taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid says...
>
>Glen Martyn wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a 10D and want to take a photo of a room. The camera points
>> into direction window where there are beautiful trees outside.
>> Unfortunately the outside (since it is very bright/sunny) looks
>> overexposed on the shot. What would be the best technique to take the
>> shot with having the room *and* the outside proper exposed? Flash?
>> Thank you for some tips.
>
>1 - Try fill-in flash, but avoid the camera seeing a direct reflection of
>the flash, so make the picture at an angle to the window, not straight on.
>Bounce flash?

Fill from about any on-camera strobe is likely to be too weak to illuminate
even a small room at a level equal to the outside illumination. Along these
lines, one might want to place Rosco ND gel, or similar, on the windows to cut
the illumination. Or, just add enough strobe power to overcome the outside
illumination. This is easily accomplished with larger "studio-type" strobe
units. I'd also establish inside illumination about 1/f brighter than outside,
and expose for it, thus rendering the outside exposure -1/f. Your eye will
tell you when the outside is not too obvious.
>
>2 - You could take two pictures (if the camera is on a tripod to keep the
>viewpoint the same), one picture exposed for the room, and one exposed for
>outside, and combine the pictures in post-processing.

This is by far the best solution, unless one has bunches of strobe power
handy, and a strong gaffer to schlep it around. In Photoshop, Layers, with
Adjustment Layers, and Layer Masks will yield excellent compositing results in
moments. I would urge one to light the interior for the best effect, then just
do expose for the outside on a separate image. You might need to do a third
for areas around a window, if the "well lit" exposure yields blooming near the
window.
>
>Cheers,
>David

Hunt
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