CPU temps of 105 C -- What is going on here?

[maestrogn]

Hello,
What is going on here?

Machine: XP Pro, SP3, etc.
MOBO: MSI 785GTM-E45
Chip: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core Agena (socket AM-2)
Cooler: Cooler Master DK8-7G52B-A2-GP

When I start up the computer, my initial core temp is 90 C. It has gotten as high as 105 under load. I'm reading the temps from three different programs:

PC Wizard 2012
SpeedFan
CoreTemp

All 3 programs agree that the core temp, right now, is 97 C. and SpeedFan refers to a temp 2 of 127 C (!). Everything else is in the low 30s.

The CPU cooling fins are very hot to the touch. (The fan is blowing air into the fins -- should it be blowing out and attempting to draw air in through the fins?)

The machine has shut down several times (totally) which is due to heat?

I've tried the following:

I have cleaned the seats between the CPU and cooler, put on a thin layer of new paste and totally cleaned the cooler's sink fins and fan blades to make sure there was no dust.
I've added two fans, one blowing directly at the cooler fan from the side of the tower case and one large case exhaust fan underneath the PSU directing the air flow out the back ... so, there is plenty of air movement in the case itself.

What am I doing wrong?

GN

 

[InvalidError]

The CPU cooling fins are very hot to the touch. (The fan is blowing air into the fins -- should it be blowing out and attempting to draw air in through the fins?)

As long as you have the rear exhaust fan pulling air across the CPU area to prevent the CPU HSF from re-ingesting its own exhaust, either way is fine though I would personally prefer drawing air away from the motherboard instead of pushing hot air towards the motherboard where it cannot get carried away by case airflow as effectively.

If the HSF is getting uncomfortably hot (which proves that there is at least reasonable contact between the HSF and IHS) and the CPU core is still getting unreasonably hot, you either have a CPU with abnormal power dissipation, a CPU with defective sensor or need a better HSF.

 

[Bejusek]

Normally I would say reseat the heatsink once again and make sure it's firmly fastened. But if it is very hot it means that contact with cpu is good enough to receive a lot of heat. Only thing I can think of is very high cpu core voltage. Maybe you set it accidentally too high when overclocking?

 

[maestrogn]

Thanks to you both for intriguing answers.

I do not think I ever tried to overclock the machine -- however, these things are so complex that I might have tried and forgotten about it.

I ran the machine and copied things from the screens of the various reporting programs that might give an idea of what is going on.


CoreTemp 1.0 reports
4 cores
4 threads
the Frequencies are all the same, 2499.92 mMHz (199.99 x 12.5)
VID = 1.3000 v
Revision DR-B3
TDP – 124.9 watts
Temp readings CPU #0 = 84 C

SpeedFan 4,46 reports
Fan 1: 19 RPM
Fan 2: 4520 RPM
Fan3: 0
Fan1:3311
Fans 2-4 = 0
Temp1 – 87C
Temp2 = 124C
Temp3 = 30C
Core = 87C

Pwm1 = 100 %
Pwm2 = 100%
Pwm3 = 60%

VCC3V: 3.36V
Vcore: 1.36V
VRam: 2.21V
VChipset: 1.29V
+5V: 3.45V
+12V: 5.28V
VCCa.5V: .37V
VSB3V; 3.36V
Vbat: 3.28V

OCCT reports
4 Cores
Code Name Agena
CPU Current: 2500.2 Original: 2500.0 Overclock 0.0%
Buss Current 200.0 Original 200.0 Overclock 0.0%

Monitoring
Sensor Name
Volt #0: .37V
Volt #0: 3.36V
Volt #0: 3.28V

PCWizard 2012 reports

Hardware Monitoring: Fintek F71882FG

Vin3: 1.76V
Vin4: 1.31V
Vin5: 0.96V
Vin6: 0.72V
Processor temp: 89 C
Aux: 124 C
Motherboard: 32 C
FanIN0: 3326 rpm
Processor Energy Power: 124.8

Please forgive me that I don't know enough about what goes on deep to know what I'm looking at in these reports. I'm hoping that something will jump out at you.

Also, would the replacement of the heatsink to a more powerful one be in order if nothing else jumps out of these numbers?

GN

 

[ace700]

You will need to replace your cpu heat sink fan. From what your speed fan is reporting. The fan has been either damaged or the fan is dying. When buying other fans for your cpu, make sure the fan supports your socket.

 

[maestrogn]

You will need to replace your cpu heat sink fan. From what your speed fan is reporting. The fan has been either damaged or the fan is dying. When buying other fans for your cpu, make sure the fan supports your socket.

Thanks for the advice. However, that fan is spinning just fine at full speed. I inspected it when that 19 rpm number showed up on speedfan. I'm still wondering if I need a far more robust cooler.

GN

 

[InvalidError]

I'm still wondering if I need a far more robust cooler.

I think you do.

HWInfo reminded me your CPU has a 125W TDP but your CM DK8 HSF is only recommended for up to 95W by CoolerMaster, which is naturally going to be problematic.

 

[maestrogn]

I think you do.

HWInfo reminded me your CPU has a 125W TDP but your CM DK8 HSF is only recommended for up to 95W by CoolerMaster, which is naturally going to be problematic.

Thanks, however I need a little education here. When I look at the available models for my CPU socket, there are all kinds of stats, but I don't find reference to the TDP. That was the unit that was recommended to me ... how do I go about finding one that meets the 125W threshold.

Thanks for your help.

GN

 

[raytseng]

this is happening even when you are idling your computer and doing nothing?

Or are you doing complex cpu tasks? What is your CPU load?

I would go into your bios and reset it to defaults.

Also turn on AMD cool and quiet for your mobo , and then in XP I believe you need to install cool and quiet drivers and set power management.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/128/

see if that helps.

You still should follow other advie and get a bigger cooler i think

 

[womble]

Looking at that heatsink it does look pretty feeble (if it is hot it obviously has good contact, just not enough oomph to dissipate it). I'd replace that as a matter of course and I bet it kicks out a fair bit of noise to boot!

A decent replacement doesn't have to cost much. If you have easy access to the back of the motherboard the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo is quite popular and gets good reviews. If you are uncomfortable fitting that kind of thing, some of the Arctic Cooling ones look easy to fit (even the venerable old Arctic 64 would probably be an improvement, though I'd aim slightly higher). Dig around for a few reviews and don't get too obsessed, some people seem to enjoy going overboard with these things!

 

[maestrogn]

this is happening even when you are idling your computer and doing nothing?

Or are you doing complex cpu tasks? What is your CPU load?

I would go into your bios and reset it to defaults.

Also turn on AMD cool and quiet for your mobo , and then in XP I believe you need to install cool and quiet drivers and set power management.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/128/

see if that helps.

You still should follow other advie and get a bigger cooler i think

Thanks for the advice -- I will be getting a bigger cooler. However, regarding the cool and quiet drivers. The AMD site states that they are not needed for Windows XP -- is there evidence to the contrary?

 

[raytseng]

Thanks for the advice -- I will be getting a bigger cooler. However, regarding the cool and quiet drivers. The AMD site states that they are not needed for Windows XP -- is there evidence to the contrary?

Don't remember.
Use CPU-Z to monitor if the clockspeed changes based on cpu load.

If it works and going up and down without installing other drivers, then you are good to go.

On my last computer which had AMD+XP , I remember having to install drivers, but I was also using crystalcpuid (3rd party program) so I could adjust the cool+quiet profile.

 

[maestrogn]

The new cooler is ordered (rated at 140 so there is headroom above my chip which is rated at 125) and hopefully that will solve the overheating problem.

In the meantime I do have a (pardon the pun) burning question …

How will I be able to tell whether or not the CPU has been damaged?

I had the machine running for a while tonight with a large fan blowing into the case and was able to keep the temperatures down to the low 70 Celsius. But the machine has been up over 100 and has tripped off at 115 – so I am concerned. What are the symptoms of a damaged CPU?

With many thanks to you all – as usual, when I dip into a nest of experts , much learning has occurred .

GN

 

[raytseng]

cpu broken will have processing errors.
your computer will act strange or crash.

If you are running prime95, the threads know what the results should be.

They will report calculation error, if your system is not working right; if your computer didn't freeze up or crash already.

 

[maestrogn]

I have to tell you -- swimming in the morass of numbers in specifications between processors and motherboards is a form of snow blindness!

Background

I have reason to believe that I may have fried my amd phenom II x4 9850 processor because TigerDirect sold me a too-small cooler last year in the bare bones kit (the TDP for the chip is 125 and the cooler was only 95). As you may have read in this thread, the result has recently been core temps of 100+ C.

I new more powerful cooler will arrive next week and I'll test the processor with Prime95 (as suggested by raytseng) to see if it survived that heat. In the meantime, I'm planning on what to do if the processor is damaged.

Current symptoms

I've been able to get the machine to run at core temps between 68 and 90 C. by running a large, powerful fan toward the existing cooler. Most programs seem to run fine, processor-dependent programs like Dragon Naturally Speaking 11.5 will hang for periods of time. X-Plane runs with a lot of halting. This leads me to believe that the processor may be damaged.

Problem

If I need a new processor, a replacement for my amd phenom II x4 9850 seems to be almost impossible to find out on the market. The core speed for that chip is 2500. There are later phenom II versions that are more easily purchased that have speeds between 3 and 3.2 GHz.

Will those work with the MSI 7850TM-E45 MS 7549 mobo, or will I have to by a whole new mobo/processor combo? Also, those other processors may be listed as AM3 (my board specs say AM2 or 2+ but also says that the motherboard is "AM3 CPU Ready" -- whatever that means).

I hope that this is the end of my newbie questions ... thanks to all for great help!!!

GN

 

[InvalidError]

I've been able to get the machine to run at core temps between 68 and 90 C. by running a large, powerful fan toward the existing cooler. Most programs seem to run fine, processor-dependent programs like Dragon Naturally Speaking 11.5 will hang for periods of time. X-Plane runs with a lot of halting. This leads me to believe that the processor may be damaged.

If the CPU was functionally damaged, programs would crash or output erroneous result, not pause/slow down. This looks like thermal throttling, one of the safeguards most CPUs today have to prevent or at least reduce the risk of CPU burn-out.

 

[amuffin]

^^
+9001

 

[maestrogn]

^^
+9001

Not hanging around these forums much, I have no way of translating your post. Please help.

mgn

 

[InvalidError]

Not hanging around these forums much, I have no way of translating your post. Please help.

"^^ +9001" means he "+1" the above post over nine thousand times.

Or in other words, he seconds/agrees with what I said.

 

[maestrogn]

"^^ +9001" means he "+1" the above post over nine thousand times.

Or in other words, he seconds/agrees with what I said.

I thought that it meant that ... and the two ^^? The cooler arrives sometime later in the week, then we'll see. Just to cover all the bases, I posted the mobo question again. I do hope that you are right and that the machine will be fine. Your logic certainly makes sense to me and I'm hopeful.

Thanks so much!

mgn

 

[maestrogn]

Thanks to everybody (and help from the X-Pilot crew), all the issues have been resolved. The machine is running temps within specs, the new video card is in, win 7 is installed and things are working as they should. Also, both memory and cpu passed their stress tests with flying colors.

Thank you very much.

mGN