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System Builder Marathon, Q1 2013: $600 Gaming PC

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  • Gaming
  • Pentium
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February 26, 2013 4:22:03 AM

After one quarter after another of Pentium-based budget-oriented gaming builds, Paul Henningsen is ready to put together something a little more potent. We gave him an extra $100 and asked him to show us how to spend that money. He obliged, gladly.

System Builder Marathon, Q1 2013: $600 Gaming PC : Read more

More about : system builder marathon 2013 600 gaming

a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:04:53 AM

Sounds about right. Not quite the sweet spot for a budget rig, but then we don't get too many requests for $600 firm. A higher clocked i3 would have been the way to go.
Score
5
February 26, 2013 5:12:18 AM

I think you can fit the 7870 LE in there if you choose a cheaper mobo and went with an i3 or an AMD build.
Score
6
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a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:12:22 AM

As usual, love the system builder article.

This $600 build seems nice. Personally, I would drop the optical drive, replace the Z75 board with a cheaper H77 motherboard, get a cheap 8GB (2x4GB) memory kit and a 2GB version of the Radeon HD7850. I think it's possible that it'll be between $600-610.

That's just what I would change. This build is still nice to be honest. :) 
Score
6
February 26, 2013 5:14:55 AM

Why isn't noise a benchmark? Every build you showcase you ignore acoustics. A very noisy build should affect it's overall performance negatively, while a quiet one should affect it positively. Noise is a very important factor in Case Reviews so why isn't it a factor here?
Score
7
February 26, 2013 5:19:49 AM

noise isnt a factor in a gaming rig...thats for htcp stuff
Score
-8
a c 295 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:20:48 AM

Proximon said:
Sounds about right. Not quite the sweet spot for a budget rig, but then we don't get too many requests for $600 firm. A higher clocked i3 would have been the way to go.


That 3350P is a pretty nice CPU though. It performs at near FX-8320 levels while consuming 1/2 the power. I'd definitely use it in a low budget rig over anything else.
Score
13
February 26, 2013 5:21:50 AM

i question the longevity of a 400w psu in a build like this though
Score
-16
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:32:19 AM

The CPU budget is higher than the GPU budget for this gaming machine? I understand the desire for a 4 core processor but you could definitely have a better gaming rig by investing more in the GPU and trimming the CPU budget.
Score
4
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:43:54 AM

arich5i question the longevity of a 400w psu in a build like this though

~54%(216W) capacity when under CPU + GPU load. There shouldn't be any concern with the PSU failing under these loads.
Score
20
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:55:17 AM

It would have been interesting with a 7870 GPU, like below:

/ /

CPU: ($123.79 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ($76.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Case: ($25.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $564.71
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-02-26 02:52 EST-0500)

But the 3350P makes things interesting when an app can benefit from more cores! I had to get a better PSU to fit the 7870 into the budget. There is also $50 in MIR's equated into the final price, so the actual price paid would be $614 out the door. I'm not sure the i3 would have been a better overall CPU, but it would have made things interesting in the gaming department :) 
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 5:56:56 AM

Links didn't work above, so I'll put out the Plain Text version, so you can see the parts details.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/G55N
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/G55N/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/G55N/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($123.79 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock Z75 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($76.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Zalman Z5 ATX Mid Tower Case ($25.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224BB DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $564.71
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-02-26 02:56 EST-0500)
Score
1
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 6:56:10 AM

Nice. :) 
going with a core i3 and 7870xt woulda allowed for better gpu-bound gaming experience, but imo a core i5 will likely offer better online multiplayer gaming experience than dual cores and amd counterparts.
core i5's overclocked power consumption looks impressive, nearly same as sb pentium's with prime 95... i guess.
Score
6
February 26, 2013 7:50:43 AM

It seems to me that the GPU was more of a bottleneck than the CPU in this build. I'd go with a cheaper H77 mobo, an i3, and a 7870 LE. I think you would have got more impressive numbers in games.
Score
-2
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 7:59:56 AM

Why is Canada not included in the draw? I want my rights you hear me! QQ

AFAIK there are no restrictions to contest stuff in Canada
Score
1
February 26, 2013 9:05:43 AM

arich5i question the longevity of a 400w psu in a build like this though

Do not question. Falcon northwest (a reliable company) builds the Tiki PC with a 450w psu.
Uses an OC i7 3770k with the new GTX Titan.
Score
5
February 26, 2013 9:06:08 AM

No really surprise here, an i5 beats a Pentium, all other parts the same, an extra $100. I'd say keep the optical drive, if anything replace it with a Blu-Ray burner. If anything do a series of cpu/mobo/ram only, these are the true "system" upgrades, and show the true difference in AMD/Intel builds. Just as the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and OS are excluded (even though they are essential, the same OS & apps are used in each one) the case, psu, and hard drives either would be reused or be similar enough to be irrelevent or simply cover up the real differences. A $200, $400, $600 cpu/mobo/ram would be perfect.
Score
3
February 26, 2013 10:01:42 AM

Proximon said:
Sounds about right. Not quite the sweet spot for a budget rig, but then we don't get too many requests for $600 firm. A higher clocked i3 would have been the way to go.


Yeah it didn't make sense to me that they jumped from a Pentium to an i5 and kept the same graphics card. I would've gone with an i3 and got at least a 7850 (maybe I'm biased because that's what I have in my PC)
Score
-2
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 10:16:59 AM

I would've done something like this for a gaming PC.
If it *must* strictly be <=$600, then at least a 2gb 7850 or a GTX660.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/G6db
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/G6db/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/G6db/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($122.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H77M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.73 @ Compuvest)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($219.99 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX12V Power Supply ($38.24 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($18.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $607.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-02-26 07:17 EST-0500)
Score
-1
February 26, 2013 10:27:43 AM

nice work again guys!
Score
6
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 11:15:12 AM

While not really groundbreaking in any way, this was a good build. It should make a nice baseline; as a general purpose / family PC, it's what a LOT of people "ought to build," perhaps with minor tweaks.

Btw, it is my understanding that these builds are sponsored by Newegg. This makes any pricing from any other store, no matter how nice, irrelevant in discussion of the build. Alternate vendors may be great suggestions in the forums, but not here.
Score
2
February 26, 2013 11:51:18 AM

esreverI think you can fit the 7870 LE in there if you choose a cheaper mobo and went with an i3 or an AMD build.

Yes, B75, i3, and 7870 LE should just about fit in budget now, and would get my vote for a pure gaming rig. But unlike the last 4 budget gaming PCs, this was not at all meant to be a pure gaming rig, rather a pure SBM rig, built with a goal to put up the most overall bang in a test suite that is only 30% games. Given $100 more, and competing against $800 and $1000, this time I was going to at least try to win. i3 would sacrifice too much in threaded applications to remain competative in overall performance and value.

The current 400W PSU should still be fine for that too, with use of a Molex adaptor. With a cheaper but more power hungry overclocked Phenom II X4 965BE, I would want to bump the power supply up a notch. But actually the day I priced my rig, i3+ 7870LE would not have worked... it was $260 ($95 more) to step up to 7870 LE, something that quickly changed to $240 after my order was submitted. Doesn't matter the performance and low power use of Core i5 was key to the system's goal.
Score
7
February 26, 2013 12:01:25 PM

2core vs 4 core CPU.

For gaming it all depends on the game engine, if the game utilizes all for 4 cores the i3 will suffer.

A suggestion, can you please specify in the benchmark how many cores the game utilizes? This way even if you don't have the knowledge about a particular game you have an idea about the CPU power.
Score
4
February 26, 2013 12:01:41 PM

Ok, it's a nice article and all, but... Why not just ditch the Optical drive?

There are a lot of external/portable optical drives that work wonders and could be used instead of these bulky ones inside the case.

My point is, you only need 1 of those for the entire house (if you have more than 1 PC or whatever that might need one) and keep on including it just damages the overall value. Those ~$20USD could go into RAM or CPU or VGA budget IMO.

Cheers!

EDIT: Also, are there no microATX or ITX boards that could be used? That could drop the overall price some more, without changing the performance in a meaningful way, I think.
Score
-2
February 26, 2013 12:08:44 PM

arich5i question the longevity of a 400w psu in a build like this though

Have no fear there. Our power measurements are what is pulled from the wall. Factoring the efficeincy (loss) of the PSU, this 400W unit was outputting under 190W at peak load. It was in fact overkill, as built, and could handle a bump in graphics if your willing to use a Molex power adaptor. I'd feel comfortable running the far more power hungry Tahiti LE based 7870 on this PSU, especially paired with a Core i3.
Score
11
February 26, 2013 12:09:48 PM

i5-3750k at Microcenter for $189 or less.
Score
-5
February 26, 2013 12:26:09 PM

This is an awesome build very nice work.
Score
5
February 26, 2013 12:31:05 PM

Nice to know you don't need a $1000 machine to get 60 fps average on BF3 at 1080p on ultra. Something to compare the upcoming ps4 against, but it begs the question... where are the crysis 3 benchmarks? :p 
Score
5
February 26, 2013 12:40:01 PM

itzsnypahWhy isn't noise a benchmark? Every build you showcase you ignore acoustics. A very noisy build should affect it's overall performance negatively, while a quiet one should affect it positively. Noise is a very important factor in Case Reviews so why isn't it a factor here?

We lack the ability to adequately measure and compare noise from one lab to the next. Agreed, and I've voiced this to the team too, that a lack of sound measurements imho lessens the value from our temperature readings.

I understand this isn't good enough, but I just try to keep it fair from one rig to the next in terms of overclock and noise, and make mention if one rig seems to comprimise noise more than the past one did. If a machine remains quiet at all times, I'd mention that too. Both these were quiet at idle, and would doubtfully bother anyone gaming with default auto fan profiles. Overclocked while gaming, they were equally loud. The PowerColor 7850 from last quarter was plain intolerable for me if pushed to about 70% fan, but it did not ramp up past 50% overclcoked under a custom profile. If you want a quiet card, overvolted and overclcoked, neither of these 7850s is for you. Auto fan settings, mildly OC'ed without voltage, they are not bad at all, but even that will depend on ambient room temperatures.
Score
7
February 26, 2013 12:43:08 PM

Combo from Microcenter

Fx 6300 plus Gigabyte GA 970A-UD3 motherboard $169 (before tax). That would save you $97 dollars over the current build and would allow you to buy a Radeon HD 7950 if you also got the rebate - see below

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Now, would the fx CPU be 6-8% slower with a decent overclock, yes it would. BUT WHO CARES. The 7950 blows the 7850 out of the fricking water. What is up with you guys. Why are you willing to do budget builds that suck for the sake of saying that the CPU, which is the bottleneck for 60FPS gaming in only a couple of games out of the hundreds available, is more meaningful than getting better gameplay out of all the rest?

Let me ask a real simple question. Which build you would want. the Intel with the 7850 or the AMD build with the 7950? I know which one I would want. Its not even close.
Score
-9
February 26, 2013 12:53:37 PM

I'd like to see how the Radeon HD 7870 or GTX 660 with a Core i3 compares, or a 2GB 7850 with FX-8320. Very cool article, though, as usual.
Score
2
February 26, 2013 12:53:56 PM

g-unit1111That 3350P is a pretty nice CPU though. It performs at near FX-8320 levels while consuming 1/2 the power. I'd definitely use it in a low budget rig over anything else.

Agreed. The 3350P was key to tackling this build's goal, but besides that is just a fantastic gaming and all-round CPU. The FX-8320 was pretty much out of contention because of power and cooling demands while overclocking.
Score
8
February 26, 2013 12:57:06 PM

I like it overall. It is a SAFE build. I5 and 7850...ya safe build. One I'd put together before the PS4 specs were listed.

But given the PS4 is coming out soon and the gpu guess is that the PS4 is around a 7870 with an AMD chip....I would have went AMD FX chip and 7870LE or 7950...betting that the ports will make up for the loss of the i5.

loops

Score
0
February 26, 2013 1:20:25 PM

I know i am blaspheming, but i would like that the cost of the Optical Drive not be included in the build. I am not saying that ODD are not needed. They are used, but increasingly, rarely.
Score
0
February 26, 2013 1:23:34 PM

Im pretty sure they never announced the winners of the Q4 2012 SBM...
Score
2
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 1:38:21 PM

EzioAsAs usual, love the system builder article.This $600 build seems nice. Personally, I would drop the optical drive, replace the Z75 board with a cheaper H77 motherboard, get a cheap 8GB (2x4GB) memory kit and a 2GB version of the Radeon HD7850. I think it's possible that it'll be between $600-610. That's just what I would change. This build is still nice to be honest.

That's not a good idea. You barely save anything at all with an H77 motherboard compared to this. That's why the Asrock Z75 Pro3 is a bit of a gem, it costs the same as an H77 motherboard but lets you crank up the cheaper Core i5s to their Turbo Boost caps. All you lose is the option of SSD caching, which most people won't use anyway.
Score
2
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 2:05:15 PM

@Sakkura

That's my preferences in order to save a few bucks for the 2GB 7850 and 8GB RAM. Seeing newer titles requiring more and more VRAM, I personally would not settle for a 1GB card nowadays and having 8GB memory instead of 4GB really gives some more flexibility running background programs whilst doing other things (ie. gaming).
Score
0
February 26, 2013 2:07:38 PM

Seeing how you keep running up against people asking about the non-gaming performance, why not try this...

Take 1 rig each marathon, and designate it the all around performer. 1st one would be the $500 and then next time do the middle and so forth.

That might get people to stop complaining as much.
Score
0
February 26, 2013 2:11:56 PM

So...can it play Crysis 3?
Score
3
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 2:16:43 PM

Hi Paul

I have a VERY SERIOUS issue with this article if you would mind indulging me for a min?

Are you aware that Ivy Bridge chips are known to become unreliable when used with RAM at higher than 1.55v, in some cases even killing the chip?

http://communities.intel.com/thread/30798
Score
1
February 26, 2013 2:25:06 PM

I think realibrad makes an interesting point.

Seeing that most people use their computers for a mix of uses, can you approach your analysis with multiple outcomes? - gaming and productivity. Show two outcome measurements. Then you can show the trade offs of a weaker video card but adding a SSD or the difference between processors.

I've used the system builder as reference with great results, but I'm always guessing as I change up my builds to meet my multi-use, real life needs.

Thanks for the great work!
Score
2
February 26, 2013 3:10:55 PM

Some comments suggested H77 for $$$ savings, but is it worth it? No turbo bin overclocking for saving 10 $/€
Score
0
February 26, 2013 3:17:32 PM

NovuakeHi PaulI have a VERY SERIOUS issue with this article if you would mind indulging me for a min? Are you aware that Ivy Bridge chips are known to become unreliable when used with RAM at higher than 1.55v, in some cases even killing the chip?http://communities.intel.com/thread/30798

Hello! Make no mistake, overclocking is done at your own risk. Intel does not resume responsibility, nor do they recommend more that 1.5V DRAM for Ivy or Sandy. However, overclocking has always been a huge part of the System Builder Marathons, and our readership generally values that aspect of the data more than the stock testing. Here we buy retail parts, avoiding the possibility of cherry picked review samples. We've been using 1.6V RAM overclocks for Ivy and Sandy without problems, in SBM's, RAM & Mobo reviews, and most other stories. Have you ever expressed this concern before?

We do not tolerate any instability for our overclocks. But the only death of a Ivy CPU I've ever heard of happened well north of 1.6V, using 1.65V RAM.
Score
2
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 3:23:53 PM

would you consider one of the cheap modular psus like corsair's cx430m in a build like this? since the psu is mounted at the top of the case, i think a modular psu would be better for clearing up a bit of clutter(for a higher price).
ofc, cx430m is a value psu, so the quality would be cheaper than others.
edit: the cx430m comes with an ac power cable, if it's worth considering.
Score
-2
February 26, 2013 3:30:10 PM

Been a long time since I commented on anything but I felt that I had to after reading about this build. This build in my opinon is ok. The CPU and GPU are great but the rest is meh. Seems kina weak. Hard drive=weak, 4gigs memory=weak, ps=weak. Seems to me you want to have a good balance and the ability to upgrade in the future. I think the i3 would have been a better cpu choice. Then beef up the PS the memory and the storage.
Score
-5
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 3:37:08 PM

pauldhHello! Make no mistake, overclocking is done at your own risk. Intel does not resume responsibility, nor do they recommend more that 1.5V DRAM for Ivy or Sandy. However, overclocking has always been a huge part of the System Builder Marathons, and our readership generally values that aspect of the data more than the stock testing. Here we buy retail parts, avoiding the possibility of cherry picked review samples. We've been using 1.6V RAM overclocks for Ivy and Sandy without problems, in SBM's, RAM & Mobo reviews, and most other stories. Have you ever expressed this concern before?We do not tolerate any instability for our overclocks. But the only death of a Ivy CPU I've ever heard of happened well north of 1.6V, using 1.65V RAM.


Although I agree that overclocking is done at ones own risk, we enthusiasts are fully aware of the risks, BUT it seems to me a RAM voltage increase is an unnecessary risk for very little gain. Especially considering how sensitive Ivy is to RAM voltages.

I have had an I3-3220 die on me from RAM running RAM at 1.6V. This was after about 3 months of continued use(home media server). I did not experience any instability on this system beforehand. Note the RAM was just of a higher voltage at stock, it was never OCd. Since stability does not seem to be the only way to confirm whether a given RAM voltage is safe or not, I am concerned that anyone should suggest higher voltage RAM for Ivy.
Score
2
February 26, 2013 3:45:15 PM

realibradSeeing how you keep running up against people asking about the non-gaming performance, why not try this...Take 1 rig each marathon, and designate it the all around performer. 1st one would be the $500 and then next time do the middle and so forth.That might get people to stop complaining as much.

That could potentially work. This round we were all seeking the most overall bang from our more tightly grouped budgets, which is supposedly the goal every time. However, each builder picks their own goal, every time.

There's stagnancy at times, and we each want to switch things up by sliding funds from CPU to GPU or vise versa, rather than build the same basic build as before. Sometimes, pricing or new availability at purchase time dictates a last minute change in system goals. Last time I was very determined to compete overall, but then HD 7850 appeared and promised a new level of graphics power for the $170 that's typically been our limit in $500 builds. Hoping for Athlon X4-750K to someday appear, I decided to build another (better) pure gaming build. With the cheap rig, what we always dub a "gaming pc", I haven't been keen on using $100 graphics in attempt to secure the required CPU muscle to compete overall. This time, had we stayed at $500 I would have attempted this same goal, using PhII X4 965BE + HD 7850 1G and a cheap mobo. That's about the only combo I'd imagine has a chance to win at $500 without knocking back graphics and gaming.
Score
4
February 26, 2013 3:54:12 PM

NovuakeAlthough I agree that overclocking is done at ones own risk, we enthusiasts are fully aware of the risks, BUT it seems to me a RAM voltage increase is an unnecessary risk for very little gain. Especially considering how sensitive Ivy is to RAM voltages.I have had an I3-3220 die on me from RAM running RAM at 1.6V. This was after about 3 months of continued use(home media server). I did not experience any instability on this system beforehand. Note the RAM was just of a higher voltage at stock, it was never OCd. Since stability does not seem to be the only way to confirm whether a given RAM voltage is safe or not, I am concerned that anyone should suggest higher voltage RAM for Ivy.

That's great info, thanks. I'll pass the horror story and recommendation onto the team. I've felt very safe with Sandy at 1.6V. Question: did you confirm the motherboard wasn't overvolting the RAM beyond 1.6V? I've occastionally found some boards are a bit aggressive and overvolt.
Score
2
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 4:02:25 PM

pauldhThat's great info, thanks. I'll pass the horror story and recommendation onto the team. I've felt very safe with Sandy at 1.6V. Question: did you confirm the motherboard wasn't overvolting the RAM beyond 1.6V? I've occastionally found some boards are a bit aggressive and overvolt.


No I did not unfortunately as I did not even consider the possibility at the time. But I am using the board at this very moment(with lower voltage RAM though). I am sure a quick test with the old RAM is safe enough. Obviously there will be more variable since it is a different Ivy chip, but perhaps I can set my fears to rest. Thanks for the suggestion. Will revert back again.
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
February 26, 2013 4:13:38 PM

A10-5800K Trinity 3.8GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) ($130 @ Newegg)
MSI FM2-A85XA-G65 (Hudson D4) ($100 $ Newegg)
Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB DDR3 1600 ($63 @ Newegg)
SeaSonic 520W 80 Plus Bronze ($65 @ Newegg)
128GB SSD OCZ Vertex 4 ($110 @ Newegg)
500GB HDD Western Digital WD Blue 7200 ($60 @ Newegg)
APEVIA X-PLORER2 Series case ($60 @ Newegg)
SAMSUNG DVD Burner ($16 @ Newegg)

Total $604

the A10-5800K integrated GPU performs great on most games. If you plan on playing Crysis then you shouldn't be looking at budget gaming systems to begin with.

the money saved from the dedicated GPU lets you go with an SSD, 8GB of RAM and a nicer case.

Score
-10
!