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GTX 460 192 bit?

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February 25, 2012 7:12:55 PM

Hi,

I was looking at inexpensive/mid-range graphics cards for a build I am going to be starting soon. At first I was looking at the Radeon 6870 but it is a little bit more than I want to pay. I then found the GTX 460 Super Clocked for EVGA. I did some looking and found that it was about as powerful as the Radeon 6870. I found it wired though that a GTX 460 only has 192 bit memory bus width, I though all of the 1Gb cards had a 256 bit bus width. Will this noticeably affect performance and does the SuperClocked 460 really perform similarly to the Radeon 6850/6870/GTX 560 (non Ti)?


Link to GTX 460 SuperClocked: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

More about : gtx 460 192 bit

a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2012 7:29:25 PM

Get the 256 bit. $5 more after rebate. It will make a difference at higher resolutions.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AlsoGTX 460's overclock well. I have GTX 460's stock at 733MHz core clocked to 840MHz. The card I showed you clocks stock @ 833 so maybe it will o/c even higher. Makes about a 12-15% difference in frame rates.

A 6870 is reputed to be a faster card.
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February 25, 2012 7:48:46 PM

DelroyMonjo said:
Get the 256 bit. $5 more after rebate. It will make a difference at higher resolutions.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AlsoGTX 460's overclock well. I have GTX 460's stock at 733MHz core clocked to 840MHz. The card I showed you clocks stock @ 833 so maybe it will o/c even higher. Makes about a 12-15% difference in frame rates.

Uhhh. You linked the GPU. I do not plan to ever OC my GPU so that's really not an option. Is it the bus width that makes the 12-15% FPS difference?
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2012 8:05:40 PM

Bus width will make a difference depending on monitor resolution and graphics settings in the games being played. If you have a monitor with 1600X900 resolution or lower compared to 1920X1080 or more, bus width will be less important. Bus width also affects graphics settings like anisotropic filtering, high shadow-low shadows, water effects and so on. "Eye Candy".
Overclocking increases the FPS at whatever those above settings are.
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February 25, 2012 9:14:56 PM

OK. I currently have a 1600x900 monitor but I am planning on upgrading to 1080p in the next year or so. What is the GPU you suggest? And will these factory OCed 460 perform as well as a Radeon 6870? Also, the link you posted is the same one I posted...
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February 25, 2012 9:26:51 PM

Quote:
avoid the GTX 460 192-bit like it was the plague..
256-bit or better in gaming cards nowadays.

Are they really that bad?
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2012 10:11:18 PM

Spaceman, "OK. I currently have a 1600x900 monitor but I am planning on upgrading to 1080p in the next year or so. What is the GPU you suggest? And will these factory OCed 460 perform as well as a Radeon 6870? Also, the link you posted is the same one I posted... "
My bad, you are correct! Should have been : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
That's the 256 bit model.
A 6870 is reputed to be faster than a 460 256bus. Just wait for the AMD fanboys to tell you that or go read some video card reviews.

Also as for the 192 bit bus I thought I had explained the difference between 192 and 256 bit in my previous post. If you are getting an HD monitor DON'T get a card with a smaller bus if a higher bandwidth is possible within your price range.
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February 25, 2012 10:12:21 PM

the 192 bit performs in the same category as the 6790, it takes the full 256 bit to compete even with the 6850. They are NOT in the same league as the 6870 or 560
With the 7770 just launched, i'd keep my eye out on a 6850 deal. This looks to be the best deal now, might even go down in the next couple weeks
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I might be wrong, but i think the 460 SE is what they are referring to as the 192 bit. Same performance class either way.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-car...
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 12:21:27 AM

A little history about the 192 bit 1GB GTX 460. Its actually based on the GF114 chip, just like the GTX 560 and GTX 560 Ti. That's what allows for the much higher clocks than the original GTX 460 (which is a GF104 chip). If you do not plan on overclocking your card the GTX 460 1GB (192 bit) will probably be as fast or faster at its factory 867 Mhz than the GTX 460 256 bit at its factory 720 Mhz. Yes, the original GTX 460 has a greater bus width, but that extra 147 Mhz on the version 2 card will make up for that and more.

A stock HD 6870 will be faster than both, but there won't be much difference until you hit 1920x1200 with AA applied.

Here's a review of the HD 6870 and HD 6850 when they first came out. They included an eVGA GTX 460 FTW (256 bit) that is factory overclocked at 850 Mhz. It handily beats them both in almost every bench.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/amds-radeon-6870-685...

Here's a review of the EVGA GTX 460 768MB Superclocked. Its also a 192 bit card, but with only 768MB of VRAM. Its also only clocked at 763 Mhz at it still matches the GTX 460 1GB (stock 675 Mhz) except at higher resolutions. That's why I'm pretty sure the version 2 clocked at 867 Mhz with a full 1GB of VRAM would beat the 256 bit version clocked at 720 Mhz.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...

If you're not going to overclock the card yourself and your budget is tight I'd get the GTX 460 1GB 192 bit Superclock.
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a b Î Nvidia
a c 105 U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 12:35:10 AM

if you can get a 6850 in the same price range I would get that. It's a little faster in most games but the biggest thing would be physx. As soon as it's enabled the performance will drop. If you look at the reviews closely, the games that use it won't be benched with it enabled. Some sites will explain this up front.
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 12:38:14 AM

swifty_morgan said:
if you can get a 6850 in the same price range I would get that. It's a little faster in most games but the biggest thing would be physx. As soon as it's enabled the performance will drop. If you look at the reviews closely, the games that use it won't be benched with it enabled. Some sites will explain this up front.


A stock HD 6850 will not be faster than either a GTX 460 256 bit @ 720 Mhz or a 192 bit @ 867 Mhz. In fact it will be slower. Again, the O.P. will not overclock his card.
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February 26, 2012 1:17:44 AM

Quote:
performance wise, a big let down.
even the HD 7770 can match the 192-bit versions of the GTX 460..
give me a HD 6870 if you can wait and save then GTX 560 at least, I'm a nVidia guy..

Actually the 7770 is matching and or trading blows with the GTX 460 1gb not the 768mb version.
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February 26, 2012 1:20:11 AM

jeffredo said:
A stock HD 6850 will not be faster than either a GTX 460 256 bit @ 720 Mhz or a 192 bit @ 867 Mhz. In fact it will be slower. Again, the O.P. will not overclock his card.

6850 is about the same performance as GTX 4601gb and really it is a bit faster over all but whom is spliting hairs really.
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February 26, 2012 2:04:56 AM

Quote:
not talking about the 768MB version.
there are 1GB 192-bit versions.

and to be honest, for a couple of dollars more you can get the HD 6870 on sale..

I like the 6850 cause I can run two off a PSU that is only meant for one card.
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February 26, 2012 2:13:12 AM

Wow! Thanks for all the replies! The Radeon 6850 seems on par with the stock (675mhz) GTX 460. From what I see on Andantech bench, neither clearly is more powerful than the other. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/539?vs=542

So if I take into consideration the 50mhz factory OC on this GTX 460, than would it not out-perform a stock 6850 (which is the same price)? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Also, how easy is it to Overclock a GPU? I have never heard much about how to do it, besides seeing a short video on MSI Afterburner.
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February 26, 2012 2:19:22 AM

Quote:
might also mean it's a good PSU..;)

I was more in referent towards the low Max TDP of 125Watts the 6850 has and that it only takes one 6 pin. My old GTX 275 that the 6850 CF replaced took 220Watts Max TDP and had half the power of the CF 6850. Any PSU with 2 6pin PCI-E power dongles will power up a 6850 CF rig no problem thats the magic and value of these wonderful cards.
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February 26, 2012 2:20:55 AM

spaceman1701 said:
Wow! Thanks for all the replies! The Radeon 6850 seems on par with the stock (675mhz) GTX 460. From what I see on Andantech bench, neither clearly is more powerful than the other. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/539?vs=542

So if I take into consideration the 50mhz factory OC on this GTX 460, than would it not out-perform a stock 6850 (which is the same price)? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Also, how easy is it to Overclock a GPU? I have never heard much about how to do it, besides seeing a short video on MSI Afterburner.

OCed 6850 can best the GTX 570 in some titles.
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February 26, 2012 2:23:14 AM

Ok, so then I guess the question is which card is easier and better to overclock. I have no idea how to change coolers on the cards so I guess which ever one can handle the best OC. Which one do you all think it is? I don't want to change voltages.
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February 26, 2012 2:27:22 AM

Quote:
never the level a GTX 570.... :pfff: 
GTX 560 Ti if your lucky.

OK I send you some links that says in some games an OCed Cherry Picked cream of the crop Msi Cyclone 6850 does beat on a GTX 570. I know it's just in a few games but for a pure mid range card to beat a high end card that cost well over $100 more is nothing short of remarkable. http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/msi_r6850_cyclo...
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 2:32:38 AM

Afterburner is very easy to use once you've done it. To change clock speeds you have to move the slider with your mouse first, then to get the exact number you want use the left or right arrow key. Next slider. When done with the settings click on apply and then profile, pick a number, use 2 and keep 1 for the original settings. Leave the fan on auto for now and and you can ,ook into that later. Clock up in small steps, about 10-20% of original speeds. Then benchmark it using 3DMark or Unigine Heaven 2,5 and save the results. Keep clocking until you see a noticeable improvement in frame rates or until the program refuses to run or shows artifacts or tearing on the screen. You may have to play a game to see artifacts since the won't necessarily show up in benchmarks. I got a 12% FPs increase for a 10% overclock. Your mileage may vary.
That's how I do it on Nvidia cards. AMD cards might have a slightly different scheme.
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February 26, 2012 2:33:35 AM

2574357,31,644818 said:
not important, it's not like he's getting a GTX 570.

Well that is just highly subjective a 6850 beating a GTX 570 and then you say it does not matter cause he is not getting a GTX 570 you are right he is looking at a 6850 that costs over a $100 less than a GTX 570 and beast it in some games and that is extremely important and relevant to the cause.
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February 26, 2012 2:35:33 AM

Ok, thanks. So is there any facts that show what GPU is better for overclocking? All of these GPUs are the same price and preform almost the same, so does it matter which one I get?
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February 26, 2012 2:37:19 AM

Quote:
OK whatever, moving on....
nothing has changed, a few dollars more and get the HD 6870...


I am on a very tight budget and I really rather not spend 30 more dollars. I have to draw a line for the price somewhere, and right now it is at $700 (Without Windows).
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February 26, 2012 2:39:17 AM

Quote:
PM me and I'll take care of your windows issue.. ;) 

I like to stay in the realm of the law.
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February 26, 2012 2:39:31 AM

spaceman1701 said:
Ok, thanks. So is there any facts that show what GPU is better for overclocking? All of these GPUs are the same price and preform almost the same, so does it matter which one I get?

Honestly if you just get the cheapest and over clock it you will be well within margin of any of the more expensive 6850 cards so really if you do not mind the slight extra noise that a reference cards fan may or may not make than just save a few bucks and get the cheapest one you can find cause the 6850 is a cool running card to begin with.
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 2:52:14 AM

O/C'ing the cards is childs' play. SLI is where the FPS are. You ca scale up 75-90% in SLI or X-fire. Also the heat and power usage move up as well.
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February 26, 2012 2:55:17 AM

DelroyMonjo said:
O/C'ing the cards is childs' play. SLI is where the FPS are. You ca scale up 75-90% in SLI or X-fire. Also the heat and power usage move up as well.

75% SLI scaling for Nvidia mabey but 90 to 100% for Radeon a reality.
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February 26, 2012 2:57:45 AM

Ok, so I think I will get a Radeon 6850 and try to OC to 850mhzs or so... But I have at one more question. The Radeon 6850 only has an effective memory clock of 1000mhz while the GTX 460 has 3600mhz. Will this effect overclocking?
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February 26, 2012 2:59:25 AM

spaceman1701 said:
Ok, so I think I will get a Radeon 6850 and try to OC to 850mhzs or so... But I have at one more question. The Radeon 6850 only has an effective memory clock of 1000mhz while the GTX 460 has 3600mhz. Will this effect overclocking?

You will be able to push that 6850 to 900 - 950mhz no problem but with the cherry picked 6850 like the msi cyclone 1ghz is possible.
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February 26, 2012 3:00:29 AM

Quote:
:non: 
I've hit 92% before.
if you don't have nVidia cards now, GTX 2xx not included, talking about Fermi GTX 4 or 5
then you would know.

you make good comments from time to time and then you get carried away with 'trying to bash' statements.
and it causes arguments as in past threads that usually end with people calling you names.
just be cool and stop trying to shed negative false light.

Well it is true with the new Radeons are seeing 100% scaling.
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February 26, 2012 3:05:38 AM

Quote:
well dude speak facts and just don't spout off something without proof.
OK, you run HD 6850's, that's good for you if it works.
but stop trying to bash on the next person's hardware or choice of,
just support your stuff.

That facts are in and TH agrees that Radeon has the better cards today with the 560ti and 570 the only Nvidias Toms recommends.
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 5:19:50 AM

spaceman1701 said:
Ok, thanks. So is there any facts that show what GPU is better for overclocking? All of these GPUs are the same price and preform almost the same, so does it matter which one I get?



http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...

The 256 bit GTX 460 1 GB @ 850 Mhz (which is somewhat low/average OC for a user - this one is factory OC'd) will beat the HD 6850 at nearly 900 Mhz. I was able to get mine to 875 Mhz. An HD 6870 beats them both of course at high resolutions (when OC'd as well).

They're both good cards (the HD 6850 and GTX 460). They're both previous generation from 2010 as well. I sometimes feel I need to defend the GTX 460 because of over-the-top claims made by some about its imagined inferiority in light of the HD 6850 - which it certainly is not. In actuality either one is just fine and a good deal for the price.
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February 26, 2012 5:40:47 AM

Quote:
so, and.....?
link it or them and I can link some to say different.
big deal, do you have all the HD and nVidia cards, no..
nevermind, you don't seem to get what I'm saying as well as everyone else that has ridiculed you in the past.

OP - enjoy your card.

No I understand in clarity what exactly you are on about it's just I do not have to agree that Nvidia is on top today cause the fact is they are not. What Nvidia needs to do with there new 6xx cards to become competitive with Radeon is introduce a Price drop and die shrink and this is weather or not they can even make cards anymore that can top the Radeons 7xxx series Non Competitive pricing is what is hurting Nvidia the most.
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a c 171 Î Nvidia
a c 271 U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 1:35:13 PM

Boopoo said:
Well it is true with the new Radeons are seeing 100% scaling.

A few years back one of the COD's went to over 100% scaling with my 8800GT's, I'll post the screen shots again if I can find them.
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 7:14:26 PM

spaceman1701 said:
Ok. But what is the likelihood that I will be able to get a Radeon 6850 to 900mhz or get a GTX 460 to 850mhz? They would be these cards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


You should be able to hit those speeds with either card. The HD 6850 may go higher without a voltage increase (but being its a different architecture that doesn't mean it will be faster than the GTX 460 OC'd clocked lower).

Just remember, overclocking a card yourself is always a crap shoot. Some have tons of overclocking headroom, others barely can handle a 50 Mhz increase. Each individual chip handles OCing differently. Factory overclocked cards are of course guaranteed to run at their specified speeds.
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 7:37:59 PM

The center position cooler is way better than the "blower" type. Much quieter and cooler running. I forgot to mention, the "Version 2" 192 bit GTX 460 1 GB will easily top 900 Mhz overclocked (just like the GTX 560 since their based on the same chip).
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February 26, 2012 7:54:23 PM

jeffredo said:
The center position cooler is way better than the "blower" type. Much quieter and cooler running. I forgot to mention, the "Version 2" 192 bit GTX 460 1 GB will easily top 900 Mhz overclocked (just like the GTX 560 since their based on the same chip).

Ok, I will stick with the first model then. I thought that the 192 bit 460 could not preform as well as the 560 because it has a smaller bus width, even if the 460 is at a higher clock rate. It seems to me the GTX 460 192 bit is similar to the GTX 550ti. Is that true or am I wrong about that?
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February 26, 2012 7:57:34 PM

Quote:
better than the GTX 550 Ti even with the 192-bit bus (interface)..


So would the Overclocked version come close to the performance of the GTX 560?
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February 26, 2012 8:07:52 PM

Quote:
no.
the GTX 560 is a full 256-bit and higher clock speeds than the GTX 460 (256-bit)

Ok, that's what I thought. Is it possible to get the 256 bit GTX 460 to somewhere in the ballpark of a 560 (non-ti)?

Edit: Just learned they don't have any more steam processors.
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February 26, 2012 8:23:20 PM

Quote:
yes, I do and apparently so does 'jeffredo'..


Cool! That would be a pretty large OC though. I don't know if I would be comfortable with it. Would I have to increase voltage?
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February 26, 2012 8:55:14 PM

Ok. If I get a GTX 460 I will defiantly get the 256 bit version. Are there any other GPUs in this price range other than the 6850 and 550ti?
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February 26, 2012 9:07:30 PM

OK, I will just get which ever seems like the best deal when I buy it...
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February 26, 2012 9:08:56 PM

Best answer selected by spaceman1701.
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a c 171 Î Nvidia
a c 271 U Graphics card
February 26, 2012 9:29:23 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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