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The Gaming Industry: Pathetic

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Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 2:42:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
pathetic

Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
with this game, and obviously rushed it.

My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.
(and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)
There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 12:49:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119073367.853587.254750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
> of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
> pathetic

Or, it can mean that you are a 15 year old troll. Halo 2 is not the best
game out. It is not even the best game in the franchise. It sure as hell
doesn't beat countless other Xbox games let alone games from other consoles.
Here are just a few games that I feel are somewhat better or significantly
better than Halo 2 for Xbox.

Rainbow Six
Ghost Recon
Halo
Forza Motorsport
KOTOR
Morrowind
Midtown Madness 3
NFL 2K5
Top Spin
Tiger Woods
GTA:SA


>
> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
> with this game, and obviously rushed it.
>
> My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
> limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.
> (and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)
> There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
> your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.
>
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 2:12:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119073367.853587.254750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was.

You need to play a bigger variety of games if you honestly think Halo 2 is
the best anything.
I would guess it's not even in most gamers top 50. Most were extremely
disappointed with 2.
The original Halo is a different story entirely.
Related resources
June 18, 2005 5:44:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

aether wrote:

> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
> with this game, and obviously rushed it.

That was _because_ of Microsoft. They were doing just fine before MS
came along. Some might even say better...
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 6:15:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119073367.853587.254750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
> of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
> pathetic

Well, that's your opinion. I don't think Halo 2 is "still the best game
out," nor was it ever the best game out. And neither do I think Halo was
the best game out...although it was the best game on Xbox for a long, long
time.

> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
> with this game, and obviously rushed it.

Agreed. But it seems that bug or glitch-free games are the exception these
days, not the rule...especially since publishers need to impress
stockholders and a lot of developers need to finish their projects in time
for the release of the movies they got the licenses for.

> My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
> limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.

But this has always been the case. Even back in the days of the Atari 2600,
you had Atari putting out some bland games when suddenly Activision came
along and showed how much better they could do with the same console. The
2600 didn't change--the developers were more creative and freed from
restraints. From generation to generation, things change. Companies such
as Acclaim used to rule the SNES/Genesis era, then bombed in the
PlayStation/N64 era and are now dead. Rockstar/DMA/Take 2 were around for
the PS One and N64 era, but they were small fish. After hitting their
stride with GTA, Smuggler's Run, and Midnight Club on the PS2/Xbox, they
became one of the biggies. You never know when some small developer is
going to make a big splash because they take risks while the others are
playing it safe and not showing creativity.

> (and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)
> There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
> your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.

I don't think I agree with that. You just have to look harder. I'm
enjoying God of War, Star Wars Legos, Burnout 3, Medal of Honor: EA, Batman
Begins, Prince of Persia: WW, PSP Hot Shots Golf, and lots of others right
now. And I can always go back to older games if nothing interests me at the
moment.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 9:09:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

>>>Rainbow Six
Ghost Recon
Halo
Forza Motorsport
KOTOR
Morrowind
Midtown Madness 3
NFL 2K5
Top Spin
Tiger Woods
GTA:SA <<<

Forza aside, how many people are playing the above titles on Xbox live?
Were any of those games listed responsible for the two-fold increase in
subscription to live? Doubtful. Halo 2 is the driving force behind Xbox
live, and still the best game on that console.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 9:15:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

>>>aether wrote:
> Today I was struck by something.


Must of hurt,<<<

Indeed. There are but a couple games worth playing on consoles, in my
estimation. Halo 2, Forza, KOTOR, and perhaps Splinter Cell and Ghost
Recon. PS2? GC? Forget about it. Playstation 2 is just dead in the
water, and the 360 might just close the gap further, in terms of sales.
One genre that's incredibly disappointing on the Xbox (and the other
two, as well), is RPGs. What, aside from Morrowind (three years old)
and KOTOR, are worth playing? Again, I think corporate greed is
responsible for much of the lack of creativity, as developers are
rushed. Then, there's the overall lack of vision and originality on the
part of the developers themselves.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 10:13:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Sounds a little short sighted to me. What about GTA, Silent Hill, Final
Fantasy, Resident Evil, Jax and Dexter, Splinter Cell and well I could on
for awhile like that. Beside many people would argue with you that Doom 3
is the best game out right now not Halo 2. And even more would argue that
one of the games I listed was the best. Even more still would argue that
games not named here are the best. See my point? You have an opinion and
that's good, but that doesn't mean it's right.

--
Game Junky
"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119073367.853587.254750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
> of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
> pathetic
>
> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
> with this game, and obviously rushed it.
>
> My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
> limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.
> (and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)
> There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
> your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.
>
June 18, 2005 10:48:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

I would agree with you Boody although I think Halo 2 on live has the
greatest surplus of fanboys.
I love 1 and played all the time on GameSpy against others. I beat 2
and that was it.
June 18, 2005 11:07:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

> Rainbow Six




The sequel to R63 (Blackarrow) was a major disappointment to me,

They put some clan stuff in, changed the HUD color, replaced a gun, etc.
the voice stuff was neat, but the bots kept interpreting the commands
wrong (think "Open the door", Followed by "BHZZT! Fire in the hole!
BHZZT!" *Grenade Bounces back*)

That said the game itself was pretty fun, just that the improvements
were not in any way, shape, or form worth the 50ish bucks I payed for
it.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 18, 2005 11:10:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

There are quite a few scumbags and little pricks playing Halo 2, but I
suspect when you have that number of people doing anything, a great
portion of them will be as such.
June 18, 2005 11:12:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

aether wrote:

> Today I was struck by something.


Must of hurt,
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 3:55:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119147057.654747.165020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> There are quite a few scumbags and little pricks playing Halo 2, but I
> suspect when you have that number of people doing anything, a great
> portion of them will be as such.
>

That was my point though. Halo 2's release brought the dumb asses out of
the woodwork. It was rare you would find them in most games with the
exception of Mechassault.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 7:44:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Nick Sadler wrote:
>
> i'd suggest buying a PS2 and a GC, or at least borrowing one to see what
> they give that the xbox doesn't.
> if you own either of these, you'll know your argument is a redundant one.
>
>
>
> Nick

I own all three consoles. You can chalk up PS2's ridiculous worldwide
sales to a couple things: 1) Japan, 2) Japan, 3) It already had an
established name and success, 4) It came out first, 5) The average
person is a follower and semi-retarded

I own all three systems, and I can honestly say the Xbox has them beat
-- by far.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 12:56:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

>PS2? GC? Forget about it. Playstation 2 is just dead in the
> water, and the 360 might just close the gap further, in terms of sales.


as i understand this, you're suggesting that the PS2 is dead, and the X360
will close the gap ( between Xbox and PS2?) by selling more titles?

The way i understand it, is that the PS2 has never been stronger, a
worldwide installbase of approaching 100,000,000 consoles, and 2 million
unique online users in europe alone, compared to the Xbox1's 1.3 mil..

it seems to me that this is little more than the Xbox usergroups morale
message.

every console is sold because of the software and peripherals that it
supports, and every console in the current gen has plenty of games woth
buying the console for.
I notice the X360 is doing its best to jump on the eyetoy bandwagon..? I
can't see it competing even with the PS2, let alone what the PS3 will offer
in this regard.

i'd suggest buying a PS2 and a GC, or at least borrowing one to see what
they give that the xbox doesn't.
if you own either of these, you'll know your argument is a redundant one.



Nick
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 2:20:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119177862.313176.148980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Nick Sadler wrote:
>>
>> i'd suggest buying a PS2 and a GC, or at least borrowing one to see what
>> they give that the xbox doesn't.
>> if you own either of these, you'll know your argument is a redundant one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>
> I own all three consoles. You can chalk up PS2's ridiculous worldwide
> sales to a couple things: 1) Japan, 2) Japan, 3) It already had an
> established name and success, 4) It came out first, 5) The average
> person is a follower and semi-retarded

You are an idiot.

>
> I own all three systems, and I can honestly say the Xbox has them beat
> -- by far.
>
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 2:41:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119140112.544185.235940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>aether wrote:
>> Today I was struck by something.
>
>
> Must of hurt,<<<
>
> Indeed. There are but a couple games worth playing on consoles, in my
> estimation. Halo 2, Forza, KOTOR, and perhaps Splinter Cell and Ghost
> Recon. PS2? GC? Forget about it. Playstation 2 is just dead in the
> water, and the 360 might just close the gap further, in terms of sales.
> One genre that's incredibly disappointing on the Xbox (and the other
> two, as well), is RPGs. What, aside from Morrowind (three years old)
> and KOTOR, are worth playing? Again, I think corporate greed is
> responsible for much of the lack of creativity, as developers are
> rushed. Then, there's the overall lack of vision and originality on the
> part of the developers themselves.

Didn't we already go through this not too terribly long ago?!?
PS2 is "dead in the water"...obvious right there that you have either A) No
clue whatsoever or B) don't own a PS2 or C) have zero taste in games. There
are a ton of good-great games on the PS2, and plenty on there that are
original and there is nothing close to them on the Xbox. GC has some great
games as well, they just don't come out very often.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 3:08:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119139746.365128.80930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>>>Rainbow Six
> Ghost Recon
> Halo
> Forza Motorsport
> KOTOR
> Morrowind
> Midtown Madness 3
> NFL 2K5
> Top Spin
> Tiger Woods
> GTA:SA <<<
>
> Forza aside, how many people are playing the above titles on Xbox live?
> Were any of those games listed responsible for the two-fold increase in
> subscription to live? Doubtful. Halo 2 is the driving force behind Xbox
> live, and still the best game on that console.
>
In my opinion, Ghost Recon got the original crowd onto Live. It was clear
right away that Ghost Recon was THE game for Live when it first launched.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 4:30:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

aether wrote:
> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
> of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
> pathetic
>
> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
> with this game, and obviously rushed it.
>
> My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
> limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.
> (and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)

After readng your posts I think you are confusing 'best overall game'
with 'most popular XBL game'.

The fact that Halo 2 is a very popular Xbox Live game does not mean the
average game developer is "pathetic."

> There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
> your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.

I couldn't disagree more.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 5:08:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119177862.313176.148980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Nick Sadler wrote:
>>
>> i'd suggest buying a PS2 and a GC, or at least borrowing one to see what
>> they give that the xbox doesn't.
>> if you own either of these, you'll know your argument is a redundant one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>
> I own all three consoles. You can chalk up PS2's ridiculous worldwide
> sales to a couple things: 1) Japan, 2) Japan, 3) It already had an
> established name and success, 4) It came out first, 5) The average
> person is a follower and semi-retarded
>
> I own all three systems, and I can honestly say the Xbox has them beat
> -- by far.
>

Not taking into account how many consoles were returned for deffective
parts, of combustible power cables,
These figures were correct as of 18 months ago:

North America
PlayStation 2 - 29.09 million
Xbox - 8.6 million
GameCube - 7.46 million
Game Boy Advance - 23.78 million
PSone - 39.18 million

Japan / Asia
PlayStation 2 - 15.90 million
Xbox - 1.4 million (~425,000 Japan alone)
GameCube - 3.37 million
Game Boy Advance - 12.66 million
PSone - 20.51 million

Europe / PAL
PlayStation 2 - 24.47 million
Xbox - 3.7 million
GameCube - 3.11 million (~3 million Europe alone)
Game Boy Advance - 12.98 million
PSone - 39.53 million

Worldwide
PlayStation 2 - 69.46 million
Xbox - 13.7 million
GameCube - 13.94 million
Game Boy Advance - 49.42 million
PSone - 99.22 million

i'm sorry this is so old, but the stats aren't easily findable in limited
time.

Japan doesn't seem t account for the sales.. in fact the USA does,

your third point is fair, and your strongest, but I think limited,
the PS2, and gamecube did have some months to establish an installbase,
but if the Xbox had a software lineup that would at all threaten its
competition, it would have done better.

as it stands, the only areas where the Xbox is superior, is its ability to
throw textures and geometry around, and also that it comes with NIC as
standard.
the lack of optical audio out disappointed me. its price is a muted point,
because that's only due to the console's failure, the same as GC.
the useless bundled joypad (the less-so useless controller-S), and the
silly-loud operating noise.

the sole reason i own an Xbox, is to play streetfighter anniversary and
burnout3.. plus it would be irresponsible for me to not own one.

GC has more fun games than xbox - and I think in attempting to be largely
more mature in its software catalogue, the xbox isn't doing itself any
favours.

the PS2 has the market niche, and I believe it can carry its consumer-base
through to the next gen..

but the impending new generation Launches will be the perfect test for your
4th point,


I don't like to consider myself a semi-retarded follower, but y'might be
right.. lol



take it easy







Nick.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 5:56:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"theOne" <theone.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119145715.081129.109490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I would agree with you Boody although I think Halo 2 on live has the
> greatest surplus of fanboys.

Mostly "kids" play Halo 2.
I prefer Ghost II because it's mostly an older crowd.

> I love 1 and played all the time on GameSpy against others. I beat 2
> and that was it.

me too
Once I completely alo 2 I only logged a couple hours online.
It's too chaotic and arcade like.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2005 5:58:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119139746.365128.80930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >>>Rainbow Six
> Ghost Recon
> Halo
> Forza Motorsport
> KOTOR
> Morrowind
> Midtown Madness 3
> NFL 2K5
> Top Spin
> Tiger Woods
> GTA:SA <<<
>
> Forza aside, how many people are playing the above titles on Xbox live?
> Were any of those games listed responsible for the two-fold increase in
> subscription to live? Doubtful. Halo 2 is the driving force behind Xbox
> live, and still the best game on that console.

Oh ok, so what ever has the biggest user base = best to you?
*rolls-eyes*
June 19, 2005 11:59:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

I'd argue that Halo 2 is not only NOT the best game, it's not even the
best XBox game. Hell, it wasn't even the best Xbox game the year it
came out.

The Chronicles of Riddick
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Fable
X-Men Legends

All of these were better, more worthwhile, more satisfying gaming
experiences than Halo 2. One of them isn't even an Xbox exclusive.

- Jordan
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 12:51:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

>>>The Chronicles of Riddick
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Fable
X-Men Legends <<<

Those games aren't on Halo 2's level, especially not the first and last
ones. I thoroughly enjoyed both KOTOR games (beat them both multiple
times), and Fable was enjoyable. (beat it once) Right now, there's few
if any titles out there that grasp my attention. None for the PS2 or
GC. Halo 2, on the other hand, has had longevity because of it's
quality and online play.
June 20, 2005 1:44:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

I didn't even catch that. Someone actually believes Halo 2 is the "Best
Game". LMAO. As repetitive as Pong :) 
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 2:13:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119239519.848850.15380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> None for the PS2 or
> GC

Really, that's funny because Katamari Damacy and God of War are reason
enough to own a PS2. And Resident Evil 4 swept quite a bit of the awards.

>Halo 2, on the other hand, has had longevity because of it's
> quality and online play.

Is that why so many people complained about it? The online aspect only adds
to the longevity if you ignore the cheating and full fledged glitching going
on with this repetitive ass game.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 3:11:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

God of War is a one and done game. Done within a couple days. The same
goes for such games as Fable, Ninja Gaiden, and GTA. Fun to play, but
no lasting value. KOTOR and Morrowind, on the other hand, do have
lasting appeal. (but such games are few and hundreds of garbage
releases far between)

Other Xbox games played online, such as Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six,
while great in their own right, don't pull 10% what Halo 2 does. Games
like Starcraft and Warcraft III, for instance, have had their
detractors, but they remain the top online RTS games of all time -- as
Halo 2 is amongst consoles. (RTS developers for the PC are another sad
bunch, with nine out of ten games released being sheer garbage) Halo 2,
scumbags and adolescents aside, and despite some flaws which annoy the
hell out of me, is a great game. The Playstation has no such title to
compete with it, and Sony's online services aren't comparable, at all,
with Microsoft's. I haven't touched the Playstation 2 in quite
sometime, much less the Gamecube.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 3:22:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:49:57 -0600, "Mattinglyfan"
<Estoscacahuates@comcast.net (deez nuts)> wrote:

>
>"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1119073367.853587.254750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
>> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
>> of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
>> pathetic
>
>Or, it can mean that you are a 15 year old troll. Halo 2 is not the best
>game out. It is not even the best game in the franchise. It sure as hell
>doesn't beat countless other Xbox games let alone games from other consoles.
>Here are just a few games that I feel are somewhat better or significantly
>better than Halo 2 for Xbox.
>
>Rainbow Six
>Ghost Recon
>Halo
>Forza Motorsport
>KOTOR
>Morrowind

Just to butt in - I'm so looking forward to the next Morrowind... Oh
yes indeedy!

N*

>Midtown Madness 3
>NFL 2K5
>Top Spin
>Tiger Woods
>GTA:SA
>
>
>>
>> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
>> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
>> with this game, and obviously rushed it.
>>
>> My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
>> limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.
>> (and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)
>> There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
>> your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.
>>
>
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 3:22:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"NightStar" <x.x@x.x> wrote in message
news:rtvbb1h1p089fsava0iqigivc7rjqok590@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:49:57 -0600, "Mattinglyfan"
> <Estoscacahuates@comcast.net (deez nuts)> wrote:
>
>>
>>"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1119073367.853587.254750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>> Today I was struck by something. Halo 2 is still the best game out, and
>>> if Halo 2 didn't exist, there'd be an argument that Halo CE was. That,
>>> of course, can mean only one thing: the average game developer is
>>> pathetic
>>
>>Or, it can mean that you are a 15 year old troll. Halo 2 is not the best
>>game out. It is not even the best game in the franchise. It sure as hell
>>doesn't beat countless other Xbox games let alone games from other
>>consoles.
>>Here are just a few games that I feel are somewhat better or significantly
>>better than Halo 2 for Xbox.
>>
>>Rainbow Six
>>Ghost Recon
>>Halo
>>Forza Motorsport
>>KOTOR
>>Morrowind
>
> Just to butt in - I'm so looking forward to the next Morrowind... Oh
> yes indeedy!
>
> N*
>

The first one was so damned fun and engulfing. I bet a lot of its mystique
has to do with the fact that it was the only true RPG but nevertheless, it
was a ball.

>>Midtown Madness 3
>>NFL 2K5
>>Top Spin
>>Tiger Woods
>>GTA:SA
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Bungie, itself, wouldn't be much without the massive financial support
>>> from Microsoft. Even still, they made a remarkable number of mistakes
>>> with this game, and obviously rushed it.
>>>
>>> My point is, it won't be the technical constraints of the consoles
>>> limiting gaming, it'll be the lousy, uncreative developers themselves.
>>> (and the big corporate scumbags who demand a new release every month)
>>> There are but a couple games, in the entire market, worth investing
>>> your time and money in. There's simply not much to be impressed with.
>>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 10:36:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

aether wrote:
> God of War is a one and done game.

It doesn't make its single player experience any less brilliant tho. I
had a better time playing thru GoW single player experience than I did
Halo 2.

> Done within a couple days. The same
> goes for such games as Fable, Ninja Gaiden, and GTA. Fun to play, but
> no lasting value. KOTOR and Morrowind, on the other hand, do have
> lasting appeal. (but such games are few and hundreds of garbage
> releases far between)

Neither KOTOR or Morrowind have multiplayer so how can they have
"lasting appeal" as you describe it, but a game like GTA3 does not?

> Other Xbox games played online, such as Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six,
> while great in their own right, don't pull 10% what Halo 2 does. Games
> like Starcraft and Warcraft III, for instance, have had their
> detractors, but they remain the top online RTS games of all time -- as
> Halo 2 is amongst consoles. (RTS developers for the PC are another sad
> bunch, with nine out of ten games released being sheer garbage) Halo 2,
> scumbags and adolescents aside, and despite some flaws which annoy the
> hell out of me, is a great game. The Playstation has no such title to
> compete with it, and Sony's online services aren't comparable, at all,
> with Microsoft's. I haven't touched the Playstation 2 in quite
> sometime, much less the Gamecube.

Yes, I agree...Halo 2 online is a great game. The most popular one out
there, but that doesn't take away from the greatness that is found in
other single player-only games.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 11:02:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Ryan wrote:
> > Rainbow Six
>
>
>
>
> The sequel to R63 (Blackarrow) was a major disappointment to me,
>
> They put some clan stuff in, changed the HUD color, replaced a gun, etc.
> the voice stuff was neat, but the bots kept interpreting the commands
> wrong (think "Open the door", Followed by "BHZZT! Fire in the hole!
> BHZZT!" *Grenade Bounces back*)
> That said the game itself was pretty fun, just that the improvements
> were not in any way, shape, or form worth the 50ish bucks I payed for
> it.

Its offline version was more of an expansion pack with new maps. The
major changes were in the online part with new multiplayer gametypes
and the lone rush mode and the ability to improve your online mission
score an upload and compare the same like PGR2. They also fixed some
cheats but broke many other things in the online version. I hate when I
cannot join a game: Those "Connection Failed" and "Server is Full"
messages are annoying. Then there is that screen freeze followed by
being thrown to the main menu if you join certain gametypes during an
ongoing game.

Still I agree that it is fun. I am hoping that Lockdown would be the
king of Live! enabled games when it comes out. For me the offline
version of Rainbow Six is hands down better than offline Halo. But then
I have always liked counter-terrorism action than fighting aliens.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 2:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119177862.313176.148980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Nick Sadler wrote:
> >
> > i'd suggest buying a PS2 and a GC, or at least borrowing one to see what
> > they give that the xbox doesn't.
> > if you own either of these, you'll know your argument is a redundant
one.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nick
>
> I own all three consoles.

BFD
That doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid.

> You can chalk up PS2's ridiculous worldwide
> sales to a couple things: 1) Japan

You sure the PS2 isn't #1 in every country that has them?


> 3) It already had an established name and success,

Really now?
How well did that work out for Nintendo and Sega?
*grasp for another straw quick*

> 4) It came out first,

ah no, the DreamCast came out 1st.
Please explain exactly how coming out before the XBox had to do with Sony
still out selling 4 or 5 to 1 even after the XBox launched.
How again did coming out early matter?
Oh it didn't?
Thought so.

> 5) The average
> person is a follower and semi-retarded

Yup you're a childish nimrod, thanks for playing

> I own all three systems, and I can honestly say the Xbox has them beat
> -- by far.

Sales and userbase would indicate otherwise
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 2:17:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

oh and don't forget variety
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 3:45:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119247900.116919.173070@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> God of War is a one and done game. Done within a couple days. The same
> goes for such games as Fable, Ninja Gaiden, and GTA. Fun to play, but
> no lasting value. KOTOR and Morrowind, on the other hand, do have
> lasting appeal. (but such games are few and hundreds of garbage
> releases far between)
>
> Other Xbox games played online, such as Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six,
> while great in their own right, don't pull 10% what Halo 2 does.

Just because they don't pull 10% of what Halo2 does, doesn't make them any
less of a game. They are great games and XBL numbers can't change that
fact.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 20, 2005 10:59:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Green Shampoo wrote:
It wasn't
> until the launch of Xbox Live that people really noticed the Xbox existed.
> By then, the PS2 had so many games, who would want to bother with an Xbox?
> >

Well, it'd take an intelligent gamer roughly five seconds to determine
that the Xbox was superior to the Playstation 2.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 2:10:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GtadnTflMK1WUivfRVn-vw@suscom.com...
>
> "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119177862.313176.148980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Nick Sadler wrote:
>> >
>> > i'd suggest buying a PS2 and a GC, or at least borrowing one to see
>> > what
>> > they give that the xbox doesn't.
>> > if you own either of these, you'll know your argument is a redundant
> one.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Nick
>>
>> I own all three consoles.
>
> BFD
> That doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid.
>
>> You can chalk up PS2's ridiculous worldwide
>> sales to a couple things: 1) Japan
>
> You sure the PS2 isn't #1 in every country that has them?
>
It probably is. Who cares, other than shareholders?
>
>> 3) It already had an established name and success,
>
> Really now?
> How well did that work out for Nintendo and Sega?
> *grasp for another straw quick*

Sega was already a shell of its former (Genesis) self. N64 games cost much
more than the PlayStation games.

>
>> 4) It came out first,
>
> ah no, the DreamCast came out 1st.
> Please explain exactly how coming out before the XBox had to do with Sony
> still out selling 4 or 5 to 1 even after the XBox launched.
> How again did coming out early matter?
> Oh it didn't?
> Thought so.

The Dreamcast only had a few good games. The PS2 was so hyped that it
created a "gotta have it" buzz. Xbox took a complete year (over 2 years
after the PS2's launch) to get a second good (subjective) game. It wasn't
until the launch of Xbox Live that people really noticed the Xbox existed.
By then, the PS2 had so many games, who would want to bother with an Xbox?
>
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 7:49:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Boody Bandit wrote:
> >
> > Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?
>
> No problem.
> To name a few:
> Metal Gear Solid 3
> God of War
> Devil May Cry 3
> Ratchet and Clank 3: Up your Arsenal
> Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
> Gran Turismo 4
> Tekken 5
> Viewtiful Joe
> Sly 2 Band of Thieves
> Katamari Darcy
> Shadow Hearts: Covenant

Grand Turismo aside, none have lasting appeal. Not a single title you
listed.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 8:43:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

aether wrote:
> Boody Bandit wrote:
> > >
> > > Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?
> >
> > No problem.
> > To name a few:
> > Metal Gear Solid 3
> > God of War
> > Devil May Cry 3
> > Ratchet and Clank 3: Up your Arsenal
> > Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
> > Gran Turismo 4
> > Tekken 5
> > Viewtiful Joe
> > Sly 2 Band of Thieves
> > Katamari Darcy
> > Shadow Hearts: Covenant
>
> Grand Turismo aside, none have lasting appeal. Not a single title you
> listed.

I seriously doubt you played any of them.

Besides, to claim a game, without any online aspec, as not having any
lasting appeal is idiotic. Video games were around, and doing quite
well, before online play was introduced.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 8:57:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119381760.832208.54720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The purpose of this newsgroup is the expressing of one's opinion. It's
> my opinion that the Xbox, regardless of sales, is the superior console.
> In terms of quality of titles released, owning all three systems,
> there's no question but that the Xbox has provided for it's owners a
> superior gaming experience than the PS2, much less the GC, especially
> over the last two years.
>
> Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?

No problem.
To name a few:
Metal Gear Solid 3
God of War
Devil May Cry 3
Ratchet and Clank 3: Up your Arsenal
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Gran Turismo 4
Tekken 5
Viewtiful Joe
Sly 2 Band of Thieves
Katamari Darcy
Shadow Hearts: Covenant

Mind you my list doesn't have cross platform titles like yours does.



> However, overall, the PS2 and GC have stunk up game
> stores for the past two years.

LOL!
Dude you're a riot.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 8:59:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

BTW fanboy, my list was only of a few titles off of the top of my head and
all of them were in the past 12 months, not 2 years. That list would double
if not triple.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 11:10:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

massivegrooves wrote:
> I would bet on that as well. Katamari alone is addictive as crack. GTA:SA
> has tons of "lasting appeal." As does Tekken5 where multiplayer will last
> you a LONG, LONG time. The others do also for various reasons...
>
> Playing online on the Xbox must be his first and only exposure to online
> gaming, LOL...

Afraid not. I've probably been playing video games, of all sorts,
longer than you've been alive. The Xbox is the best console out there,
at the moment. Not just graphically, but the overall quality of it's
titles. Again, I didn't state the PS2 didn't have quality titles over
the past two years, I said the Xbox has more of them, and more of
'lasting appeal'. (as IGN puts it)
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 21, 2005 11:58:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
news:1119397403.496930.96020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> aether wrote:
>> Boody Bandit wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?
>> >
>> > No problem.
>> > To name a few:
>> > Metal Gear Solid 3
>> > God of War
>> > Devil May Cry 3
>> > Ratchet and Clank 3: Up your Arsenal
>> > Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
>> > Gran Turismo 4
>> > Tekken 5
>> > Viewtiful Joe
>> > Sly 2 Band of Thieves
>> > Katamari Darcy
>> > Shadow Hearts: Covenant
>>
>> Grand Turismo aside, none have lasting appeal. Not a single title you
>> listed.
>
> I seriously doubt you played any of them.

I would bet on that as well. Katamari alone is addictive as crack. GTA:SA
has tons of "lasting appeal." As does Tekken5 where multiplayer will last
you a LONG, LONG time. The others do also for various reasons...

> Besides, to claim a game, without any online aspec, as not having any
> lasting appeal is idiotic. Video games were around, and doing quite
> well, before online play was introduced.

Playing online on the Xbox must be his first and only exposure to online
gaming, LOL...
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 12:09:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119319188.648962.265940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Green Shampoo wrote:
> It wasn't
>> until the launch of Xbox Live that people really noticed the Xbox
>> existed.
>> By then, the PS2 had so many games, who would want to bother with an
>> Xbox?
>> >
>
> Well, it'd take an intelligent gamer roughly five seconds to determine
> that the Xbox was superior to the Playstation 2.
>
There's no doubt about that. However, notice your key word, "intelligent."
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 12:16:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Mattinglyfan" <Estoscacahuates@comcast.net (deez nuts)> wrote in message
news:Wf6dnWg3Z96r5yrfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>
> "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119319188.648962.265940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Green Shampoo wrote:
>> It wasn't
>>> until the launch of Xbox Live that people really noticed the Xbox
>>> existed.
>>> By then, the PS2 had so many games, who would want to bother with an
>>> Xbox?
>>> >
>>
>> Well, it'd take an intelligent gamer roughly five seconds to determine
>> that the Xbox was superior to the Playstation 2.
>>
>
> And why would that be Mr. Intelligent Gamer?

Xbox Live, built in HDD, 4 controller ports, and Halo.
Other moot points being the ability to rip songs to your HDD, the Xbox'
smaller size, and its ability to do your laundry while giving you a
pedicure. OK... so its not smaller than the PS2.
>
> 1) The game library selection?

At the time of launch, no. Over x-amount of time, yes.

> 2) AAA Titles?
>
In my opinion, the Xbox and PS2 has roughly the same number of AAA titles.
There are tons of junk games this generation.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 12:30:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

>>>I must be brain dead I could've sworn you said:
**Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?**
and
**

the PS2 and GC have stunk up game stores for the past two years<<<

It's called a feeler. It's had highly rated titles, but few that I'm
particularly fond of. The PS2 and GC have sat pathetically on the
shelves in game stores for the past two years, producing games of
little value. One of the best, and probably the most popular game on
the PS2, GTA, is ported to the Xbox. The Xbox' top titles haven't been,
and won't be. Those that are shared by all consoles are invariably
graphically superior on the Xbox. That, in itself, is a major advantage
it's had over the PS2, esp. over the last couple years.

You, apparently, believe the Xbox hasn't had the better library of
games over the past two years. That's your opinion. It's difficult for
you to understand, what with you wasting what precious little mental
energy you have on vacuous attempts at insulting.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 1:31:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

So how long before you get another ID, Teemoney? Make sure to keep the
invective to a minimum, so it'll take four seconds rather than the
normal three, for your moronic tactics to be exposed.

aether wrote:
> >>>I must be brain dead I could've sworn you said:
> **Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?**
> and
> **
>
> the PS2 and GC have stunk up game stores for the past two years<<<
>
> It's called a feeler. It's had highly rated titles, but few that I'm
> particularly fond of. The PS2 and GC have sat pathetically on the
> shelves in game stores for the past two years, producing games of
> little value. One of the best, and probably the most popular game on
> the PS2, GTA, is ported to the Xbox. The Xbox' top titles haven't been,
> and won't be. Those that are shared by all consoles are invariably
> graphically superior on the Xbox. That, in itself, is a major advantage
> it's had over the PS2, esp. over the last couple years.
>
> You, apparently, believe the Xbox hasn't had the better library of
> games over the past two years. That's your opinion. It's difficult for
> you to understand, what with you wasting what precious little mental
> energy you have on vacuous attempts at insulting.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 2:29:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119406248.721508.180470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> massivegrooves wrote:
> > I would bet on that as well. Katamari alone is addictive as crack.
GTA:SA
> > has tons of "lasting appeal." As does Tekken5 where multiplayer will
last
> > you a LONG, LONG time. The others do also for various reasons...
> >
> > Playing online on the Xbox must be his first and only exposure to online
> > gaming, LOL...
>
> Afraid not. I've probably been playing video games, of all sorts,
> longer than you've been alive.

Really now?
I would've thought you were 14, 15 tops.

> The Xbox is the best console out there,
> at the moment. Not just graphically, but the overall quality of it's
> titles. Again, I didn't state the PS2 didn't have quality titles over
> the past two years, I said the Xbox has more of them, and more of
> 'lasting appeal'. (as IGN puts it)

I must be brain dead I could've sworn you said:
**Honestly, where are the great PS2 titles over the last year?**
and
**the PS2 and GC have stunk up game stores for the past two years.**

I have been gaming since gaming since the early 70's if you count pinball.
Please add me to your friends list, I would love to hear you talk from you
belly trying to sound like an adult or using a masked voice trying to fool
me. I could use the laugh. Not that you haven't made me laugh time and time
again on here.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 2:40:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"massivegrooves" <massivegrooves@massivegrooves.net> wrote in message
news:D y_te.50758$iU.20148@lakeread05...

>
> Great post, think someone did pretty much the same thing the last time he
> spouted off his load of garbage and how Halo is THE game, that the Xbox is
> so awesome and the others are not, etc.., etc..

That might've been me, along with a couple of others, assuming you mean the
time he was whining about Gamespot and EGM (who he thought were affiliates)
were biased against the almighty Xbox--EGM for giving the Xbox too few
covers, and Gamespot for giving God of War a high score.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 2:40:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:sH0ue.7534$NX4.3133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "massivegrooves" <massivegrooves@massivegrooves.net> wrote in message
> news:D y_te.50758$iU.20148@lakeread05...
>
>>
>> Great post, think someone did pretty much the same thing the last time he
>> spouted off his load of garbage and how Halo is THE game, that the Xbox
>> is
>> so awesome and the others are not, etc.., etc..
>
> That might've been me, along with a couple of others, assuming you mean
> the
> time he was whining about Gamespot and EGM (who he thought were
> affiliates)
> were biased against the almighty Xbox--EGM for giving the Xbox too few
> covers, and Gamespot for giving God of War a high score.
>


Yep, that is the one I was thinking of...
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
June 22, 2005 3:40:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Indeed. There are but a couple games worth playing on consoles, in my
> estimation. Halo 2, Forza, KOTOR, and perhaps Splinter Cell and Ghost
> Recon. PS2? GC? Forget about it. Playstation 2 is just dead in the
> water, and the 360 might just close the gap further, in terms of sales.
> One genre that's incredibly disappointing on the Xbox (and the other
> two, as well), is RPGs. What, aside from Morrowind (three years old)
> and KOTOR, are worth playing? Again, I think corporate greed is
> responsible for much of the lack of creativity, as developers are
> rushed. Then, there's the overall lack of vision and originality on the
> part of the developers themselves.

You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but from my standpoint, the
PS2 is far from dead - especially if you are a fan of RPGs. I'm still
plowing through the relatively huge glut of RPGs that came out for the PS2
last year.

GC - ok...that's another matter. I used to be able to defend the GC with
a number of titles that weren't available anywhere else. Unfortunatly,
with the exception of the Nintendo 1st party titles (eg. Mario, Zelda and
Metroid) just about everything else of value on that console has been
ported else where (or is coming soon.)

Xbox still reigns supreme for FPS and online-enabled games. No doubt.

But in my opinion, PS2 still has plenty of strong contenders in the areas
of RPG and platformers.

As for the general direction of games themselves, don't blame the
developers, blame the corporations. They look at games like Hollywood
looks at movies. If a game did reasonably well, crank out another 10
levels, slap a new digit or title on it, and voila - a sequel. Cheap.

IMHO, unless the industry collectively changes their tune, the next
generation is going to be a dissapointment. So far, all the games that
have been announced for all the platforms are literally just sequels that
promise slightly better graphics, 10 new levels, and the same old
game-play. Now, that's OK in small doses, but it's definitely not worth
the premium prices they're going to be charging for new consoles and
games... At that rate, I'll wait for a price drop or two on the hardware
and pickup the titles cheap. I haven't paid $40-50 for a game in over a
year, and I really don't see any reason to change that - not even for
*must have* titles. If you play across multiple platforms, it's pretty
easy to accumulate a backlog of games, so it's not like I'm going to run
out of stuff to play...
!