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Phenom II x4 965 BE or FX 4170?

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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 1:20:55 PM

I am set on either the FX 4170 or the Phenom x4 965 BE. I guess my question is, which is better? And how long will the Phenom be a viable CPU? I will definitely get AM3+, but I don't want to have to upgrade in 1 year because the Phenom is too old to handle modern programs and games. I'd like to get 2 years out of each CPU. This is for a new build with 8GB RAM and a Radeon 7770 keep in mind. I will not go intel, so don't even bother.

More about : phenom 965 4170

a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 1:34:19 PM

You might as well get the 4170 for the newer cpu features but ultimately either cpu will keep up with the 7770
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 2:16:40 PM

Either is cheap enough so its much of a muchness, the 965 BE will probably give you the better all round performance but the FX 4170 is in this regard not outclassed by a older gen equivilant.


Yes there are newer features, its cheap and it can handle a 7770 without blinking. If anything I would be looking at a HD7850 possibly a 7870, the 7770 is to lower end for what you may like to get out of the system.

Mobo: Gigabyte 970FXA UD3 *think thats it but will double check*
CPU: FX 4170/965BE
GPU: HD7850
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a c 105 à CPUs
August 21, 2012 2:20:26 PM

get the cheaper one, the two on par with each other in the real world.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 2:39:32 PM

I have to keep it under $700, and that includes all the accessories for it. So the 7770 seemed like a good money saver.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 2:47:50 PM

What specs did you have in mind? (including accessories).
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:10:08 PM

Rosewill Challenger Case
8GB Crucial RAM
Radeon 7770
Phenom II 965 BE or FX 4170
600 Watt Rosewill PSU
Seagate Barracuda 1TB Sata 6.0GB/s 7200 RPM 1TB
Asus DVD burner
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August 21, 2012 3:10:28 PM

I have a Phenom II 965BE paired with a 6870 and i pwn t3h n00bs
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:13:35 PM
a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:15:38 PM

The one thing I cannot figure out other than the CPU is if I should spend the money on anti static wrist straps or not.
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August 21, 2012 3:20:18 PM

Although this isnt the topic of the post, I must say that I have the Rosewill Challenger case as well and cable management was a little difficult in it. But it all worked out in the end.

And I never used the wrist straps to build mine I just built it in the kitchen.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:24:55 PM

It would be a $45 difference to use the Radeon 6870, but it is a much better GPU.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:31:38 PM

If I use Phenom II I might be able to
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:46:54 PM

Yup was going to say the HD6850 and HD6870 are better than the 7770 in pure performance.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 3:50:39 PM

Essentially, my computer would be for everything across the spectrum. I would be selling all my gaming devices to cover some of it, as well as use the only cable outlet in my room for the modem.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 4:21:32 PM

I never really watched TV anyways, so it isn't that bad. I'm pretty sure my current TV, being relatively small, would become a monitor for my old computer.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 4:24:52 PM

Really I'd need to cancel the home phone service so I wouldn't need to connect the phones, when I have no phone jacks in my room.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 4:36:24 PM

Quote:
no, 965BE all day over the FX-41xx..


I don't know guy, 4.2 as a base clock speed is pretty appealing and effortless
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 4:42:19 PM

Quote:
965BE and HD 6870 = WIN

let me explain something.
965BE can clock to 3.8GHz with just the multi hit, with a voltage tweak I got 4.2GHz but ran it @ 4.0GHz.
at this speed (and in a per clock sense as well) it surpasses the FX-41xx in performance.
IPC, power consumption and latency are all FAILS for the FX-Bulldozer chips.
the older arch Phenom II out performs the newer generation in this circumstance.


The Phenom is better, yes. My concern is that it is older and will need to be upgraded sooner. I want 2 good years of it before I upgrade, even 3 if possible. Imo that was the best CPU AMD has ever had. But it is hard to find, due to AMD's attempt to faze it out.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:00:15 PM

The 4170 does have more cache though and is AMD's flagship, although it is not truly 4 cores. The Phenom II has less cache and is older, but is a true quad core and has better per core performance. Not to mention it's cheaper.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:07:46 PM

Small performance increases over Zambezi is what Vishera will hold.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:11:06 PM

Quote:
true...
the FX-8150 should be the flagship in my opinion.
965BE - 980GB, 1090T - 1100T are the AMD winners though.
too bad they just didn't advance that arch more..


That's what I meant- The bulldozer is the AMD flagship, like how in 3 months Piledriver will be. Those are terrible names for CPUs by the way.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:12:34 PM

AMD does seem to be running on the same platform Intel ran on with Pentium 4 CPUs. Fast clock rate, not so great architecture.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:17:50 PM

I almost wonder if I should wait, save up, and spend $600 more on an epic intel pc?
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:25:53 PM

It would take me about 5 months to save up for the specs I have planned for an intel.
i7, 16GB RAM, Crossfire Radeon 7770's, 1000 watt psu, $165 mobo, and a Rosewill Thor.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:27:16 PM

Although for my uses the AMD system is fine.
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a c 103 à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:29:36 PM

Quote:
Phenom II then skip Bulldozer, hope that Piledriver is more than a minor upgrade..

+1, be like the Moto and pretend Bd never happened :p 
Deneb are the best slices Amd have put out yet,so 965 and up over any Fx in my eyes unless you can benefit from Thubans two extra cores, I.e. vidwork, editing etc, for gaming its the PII posse all the way :) 
*Crosses fingers for Vishera to be good
Moto
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:36:16 PM

Yeah the only real advantage of the i7 is hyper threading, which is rare in most programs.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:47:19 PM

As in the super PC I had for Intel.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:48:37 PM

By the time I get to i5 price range i7 is only a few hundred dollars away.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:54:32 PM

Overall system efficiency is the most important thing for me. I'd sacrifice GPU for more CPU.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:54:53 PM

I'm one to go over kill on PSU size too so that take a lot.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 5:56:42 PM

Clock rates more than make up for per core performance. 4.2 base clock and the potential to get to 5 ghz fairly easily makes the 965 a questionable buy.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 6:14:40 PM

5 ghz BD vs 4.2 Phenom 2 in games it would likely be close but BD is gonna win no doubt. Frankly both are pretty well crap but he is insisting.
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 6:22:13 PM

How crappy is 4GB RAM, an Intel Core 2 Duo e4400 @2000 MHz and a GT 430?
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 6:22:22 PM

Hmm $200 more than the AMD build
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 6:33:41 PM

Including accessories
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 8:12:24 PM

As for the Phenom's cooler, it is the fan that is loud correct?
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August 21, 2012 8:22:44 PM

Frankly, you really should follow this format: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/353572-31-build-upgra...

I get the impression you aren't really sure what you want, and/or that you're not very experienced in building systems or haven't been following things for a few years (Apologies if I'm wrong, no offense intended). Posting a good description of your needs, part preferences, and budget will likely yield a number of good build suggestions for you to choose from (or mix and match, or simply give some direction).

You stated that you wanted to use your computer for everything, but what is and isn't important to you. If you are not wanting to go with intel due to the price of the i7, not willing to go with an i5, so you want an AMD chip instead; simply put the logic isn't really adding up.

An i7 is pretty much only useful for heavily threaded, sustained processor intensive tasks such as video encoding. Hyperthreading is a feature that allows one process core to be treated as 2 seperate threads, and dividing the processing power of the core between them (correct me if I'm wrong, I've never done an in-depth study of how hyperthreading works at the architecture level). A very large percentage of programs are not threaded, because it's difficult to program, which is why so many people recommend and use i5s rather than i7s.

All things considered, the CPU is significantly less important in gaming than the GPU, and less important than storage speed in general usage. I wouldn't shy away from using the 965BE, I had one in my machine until early this year (now it's in my wife's), I wouldn't have even bothered upgrading if I hadn't started gaming in 3d. A good CPU today isn't really likely to go obsolete anytime soon (there will be better CPUs made, but programs aren't getting hugely more advanced, processor requirements for most things have not been growing much in the last 5 or 6 years). An i3 could even be a decent choice, they are pretty capable for gaming (with lowered settings perhaps) and will allow you to upgrade to an i5/7 when you get the financial opportunity; it wouldn't be quite as good as the 965BE, but they afford you upgrade potential that isn't dependent on the success of piledriver. (For the record, I'm hoping to see Piledriver succeed, but why gamble on it when you don't need to).
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a b à CPUs
August 21, 2012 9:45:53 PM

Quote:
965BE and HD 6870 = WIN

let me explain something.
965BE can clock to 3.8GHz with just the multi hit, with a voltage tweak I got 4.2GHz but ran it @ 4.0GHz.
at this speed (and in a per clock sense as well) it surpasses the FX-41xx in performance.
IPC, power consumption and latency are all FAILS for the FX-Bulldozer chips.
the older arch Phenom II out performs the newer generation in this circumstance.
+1
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a b à CPUs
August 22, 2012 6:48:32 AM

For graphics cards;

HD 6850 - ($130) beats its competitors (550/560) on price and performance, can play modern titles on HD res with eye candy reduced, hits 13 on Heaven 2.5, knocks out double digits in the tesselation monster Metro 2033 which is no basic feat for a low cost card, it is also cheap enough to crossfire and get GTX 580 like performance.

GTX 570 - ($230) Best value orientated Fermi card with the GTX 580 still selling at over $400 the GTX 570 is the only relavent Nvidia card of the 500 generation, performance, maxed presets on all current titles, good value for money still.

HD 7870 - ($270) Performance beating the GTX 580 with half the power consumption and much lower temperatures, overclock headroom which is off the chart.

GTX 670 - ($400) best value for money card on the market with muscle for the future it will still be a strong card 2 years from now.


Avoid;

GTX 560ti - tired, out priced by the competitor it had its time and that time has passed.

GTX 580 - at $400 still and the cheapest at $330 it is outclassed by the mainstream 7870 and GTX 660ti, and is left well behind by the new priced 7950 and at the $400 is litterally destroyed by a GTX 670, no value bucking the old Fermi collosus now.

GTX 680/7970 - On performance these cards are immense but sadly they are overkill, no games fully utilise the potential of the cards to the extent that the $450 and $500 price mark is rather obselete.....they are nice to have but not necessary at all.
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a b à CPUs
August 22, 2012 12:51:42 PM

Anand and TH regularly redo the P/P ratios, the 6850 is around 560 level slower than the 560ti, the 6870 is more the 560ti level card, the fact that the 6850 is cheaper than the 560 with similar performance after drivers gives it a P/P advantage, but its a Radeon so it is automatically bad.

7870 on the older drivers was around +-5% window of the GTX 580 with much more overclock headroom which would make it faster, it is now a $240 card, the GTX 580 was once a $550 card now still lingering around the $400 mark, but obviously the 580 is the way to go with double cost, double power, similar performance.

We are becoming an exclusive Nvidia and Intel community exactly the reason people ran away from Anandtech because.

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a b à CPUs
August 22, 2012 10:19:28 PM

I would be playing mostly Simulation and strategy games, Sims, Simcity, Civ, Tropico, ect. I'm more into overclocking and messing around with my system.
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a b à CPUs
August 22, 2012 10:31:30 PM

For the Phenom II I would probably overclock to around 3.7GHz, and the FX around 4.5GHz
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a b à CPUs
August 23, 2012 6:50:49 AM

I am not going lie if you really want to overclock you need top end components, for overclocking a motherboard is important, sure even the best motherboards fail but its the percentage chance of failure which is lower.

If you want a overclocking board that will last a few years 3-5 depending on technology at the time the Asus Crosshair V Formula 990FX, should have a new version out soon with PCI-e 3.0 and faster memory SPD support and other goodies, other than that its a ROG so its very good quality. The other boards are the Asrock Fatality 990fx and MSI 990FX GD80 all good overclockers.

As for overclocking you can get a FX to 9ghz if you use exotic cooling but in reality you are around the 5ghz mark with good cooling solutions, for Thubans and Denebs they hit the wall at 4ghz mark so you not going to get much from that irrespective of cooling.


If you go the intel route then a i5 3570k with a Gigabyte Z77 UD5H and you have yourself a good overclocking toy.

If you can afford it then the GTX 670 if you like overclocking there are a few varients of the 7970 notably the lightnings from MSI that are designed for overclocking and volt modding, it can hit 2ghz on the core with the right power and cooling, best overclocking card period but costs a fair bit. But for the games $200-300 and any card in that window should be good.
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