Core 2 engineering samples from China, a question

[transmoderata]

I need to upgrade my laptop CPU. I've noticed that on ebay there's been a recent influx of Q9100 Core 2 Quad engineering samples being sold out of China for incredibly cheap. As long as the processor is functionally equivalent to the retail version, I'll be a happy man. But a comment on one of these ebay listings concerns me:

Engineering Sample version, cpu info NOT displayed in BIOS

Is it true that engineering samples don't display info in BIOS, or should I consider this listing suspect? If the former, is there a way (besides benchmarking) to know that I haven't been ripped off?

Thanks.

 

[Herr_Koos]

As a rule engineering samples are not supposed to be offered for sale. I would consider this extremely suspect.

 

[noidea_77]

It's not the engineering sample that doesn't display, it's the BIOS that doesn't recognize the CPU! It's most likely your Laptop doesn't start. That's why they are so cheap. And if it starts it will probably overheat very fast, because your the cooler is not made for this CPU and the fan management can not react to an unknown CPU. Bad news? Yes! Buy cheap and you buy twice.

 

[transmoderata]

(@Herr_Koos)

I'm aware that they aren't supposed to be offered for sale. Honestly, if it's a legitimate engineering sample of the model specified, I don't really care. I'm not breaking the law by buying one. And I actually have little doubt that these are legitimate, as I have read that these processors are being acquired for as little as ~$6 a piece in Shenzhen, meaning that resellers have virtually no reason to try to remark them or pull any tricks. They'll make 2000% profits off legitimate sales.

My only real concern is the comment about no BIOS information. I need to know if this is typical of engineering samples. Does anyone know?

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Are you sure you can even upgrade your laptop? Most are very limited as to upgrading a CPU. Just because it's the same socket does not mean it will work. If heat is not the limiting factor then the BIOS actually supporting more than 1 or 2 CPUs will be.

 

[transmoderata]

@anort3: Yes, quite sure. I'm very experienced with this. CPU compatibility is a matter of what the chipset will support. This laptop's chipset, PM45, supports 17 processor models, of which the Q9100 is one.

@noidea_77: I will reply to you shortly.

 

[jay_nar2012]

And what the BIOS supports, my desktop's chipsets supports Core 2 based CPUs but the BIOS limits it to Netburst CPUs.

 

[transmoderata]

It's not the engineering sample that doesn't display, it's the BIOS that doesn't recognize the CPU! It's most likely your Laptop doesn't start. That's why they are so cheap. And if it starts it will probably overheat very fast, because your the cooler is not made for this CPU and the fan management can not react to an unknown CPU. Bad news? Yes! Buy cheap and you buy twice.

Sorry to be the one to say it, but your post is nothing but a bunch of assumptions based on bad information. I suggest you read a little bit on engineering sample CPUs before further replying in this thread.

Firstly, the reason they're so cheap is because they're given away for free and often reach the black market having been acquired for, as I said, as little as $6 per processor, therefore reselling them at 1/3 retail yields huge profits.

Secondly, your claims that my "most likely my laptop doesn't start" and "it will probably overheat very fast" are totally without basis. Engineering samples are sent to companies planning on implementing the CPU (in, for instance, a retail computer system) in the near future. They're meant to be used for quality assurance in prototype designs and the like. They are working demonstrators of the CPU's capability. So obviously, they will have to facilitate heat management every bit as good as retail versions. I understand that, in the case that BIOS doesn't display info, it would mean that BIOS doesn't recognize the CPU. In the case of engineering samples, this can be assumed to mean that CPU identification facilities have been left out of engineering samples because they have no bearing on the performance of the processor. This does NOT logically lead to any of the assumptions you've made about their poor performance.

 

[popatim]

i think yuo're missing the point. Laptop's spu support is typically locked to the bios. If the bios isnt setup to work with that specific cpu then it might not work at all. How does the bios know what cpu it should allow to work? By the model number it detects... and by your own given information:

[Quote :]Engineering Sample version, cpu info NOT displayed in BIOS [/quote]

so I hope you're paying a little more attention now and stop belittling people trying to help you.

Whether it actually works or not I dont care. Good luck to you.

 

[transmoderata]

And what the BIOS supports, my desktop's chipsets supports Core 2 based CPUs but the BIOS limits it to Netburst CPUs.

Okay, I wasn't aware of that, probably because Dell's BIOS support is so good and frequently updated (my laptop is Dell) as to make it virtually a non-issue in Dells. Top and bottom is, I know for a fact that this laptop model supports all 17 processor models supported by the chipset, because I've seen this model sold by Dell with the full range of these processors included.

 

[stickg1]

Actually sometimes the batch of engineering samples are not the final revision of the CPU. So yes ,overheating can be a concern because they are not always the exact CPU that hits the shelves for retail. I would stay away but that's just me.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

probably because Dell's BIOS support is so good

:lol:

I know for a fact that this laptop model supports all 17 processor models supported by the chipset, because I've seen this model sold by Dell with the full range of these processors included.

You are still assuming. Very likely there were at the very least different BIOS revisions between the varoius models. If you are lucky your board will support 2 or 3 CPUs. Hell you could be right and we all could be wrong. All I can speak from is experience. Either way good luck.

 

[transmoderata]

You are still assuming. Very likely there were at the very least different BIOS revisions between the varoius models. If you are lucky your board will support 2 or 3 CPUs. Hell you could be right and we all could be wrong. All I can speak from is experience. Either way good luck.

Okay maybe I'm assmuing, but would BIOS revisions really drop support of certain processors? They're all modern processors released within a 3 year period.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Yes. You don't have much experience with laptops obviously. It's not even close to the same as working with desktops. Find your exact motherboard model and either post it or find it on the Dell website to see what's exactly compatible with it. Don't assume anything.

 

[rds1220]

I would not bother with engineering samples. Engineering samples are not a finished product and can have flaws like heat problems or BIOS prolems.

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

Okay maybe I'm assmuing, but would BIOS revisions really drop support of certain processors? They're all modern processors released within a 3 year period.

Maybe not "drop" support, but rather never had support in the first place...

And yes, getting an ES is a bad idea, in general. If it's less than $10, go for it, but otherwise, I'd say forget about it.

 

[transmoderata]

Yes. You don't have much experience with laptops obviously. It's not even close to the same as working with desktops. Find your exact motherboard model and either post it or find it on the Dell website to see what's exactly compatible with it. Don't assume anything.

Now you're contradicting yourself by telling me it only depends on the chipset, exactly what you told me wasn't true...

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

Now you're contradicting yourself by telling me it only depends on the chipset, exactly what you told me wasn't true...

How did you get that out of what he said there? He was talking about the BIOS, you just read too much into it, seeing what you wanted to see.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Now you're contradicting yourself by telling me it only depends on the chipset, exactly what you told me wasn't true...

Were in any of my posts have I mentioned chipset?

 

[transmoderata]

How did you get that out of what he said there? He was talking about the BIOS, you just read too much into it, seeing what you wanted to see.

difference instances of the same laptop model aren't going to have different motherboards. I have a Precision M4400, meaning that I have a Precision m4400 motherboard which has the PM45 chipset. This motherboard supports processors with the Penryn microarchitecture. This is straight off wikipedia.

You guys know there's such thing as flashing the BIOS, do you not?

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

You guys know there's such thing as flashing the BIOS, do you not?

Yes, but if there was never a BIOS that supported the ES CPU's in the first place (old OR new), it doesn't matter.

That, on top of OEM BIOS' being EXTREMELY restrictive on what CPU's they support, almost definitely means that the ES CPU's will not work.

I don't care what the chipset supports, if the BIOS won't support it, it won't work.

 

[transmoderata]

anort3: Okay, my laptop's motherboard is part number F412N. See if you can use that information to figure out anything I haven't already stated and didn't already know.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

anort3: Okay, my laptop's motherboard is part number F412N. See if you can use that information to figure out anything I haven't already stated and didn't already know.

Need your exact laptop model as well.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

I'm looking now, and I believe that it's a Dell Precision M4400. I haven't really been able to find much in the way of CPU support, though.

Yeah me too.

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

Need your exact laptop model as well.

I'm looking now, and I believe that it's a Dell Precision M4400. I haven't really been able to find much in the way of CPU support, though.