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Nikon D70 color space issue, photoshop, etc.

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Anonymous
July 7, 2005 12:38:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hi all,
My D70.... I have the color space set to Adobe RGB. But when I transfer the
photos onto my system, then open Photoshop CS, then open say 10 or 20 of the
images from whatever folder, about half of them always ask if I want to apply a
color space or leave them as is without working in a color space.
Why is the D70 (apparently) not recording the Adobe RGB to the image on some
(alot) of the images? Or is that even what's happening?

Tim
July 7, 2005 9:13:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

The short answer is that Adobe RGB is only useful/usable in the raw format
in the D70 so if you do not shoot in raw format you get whatever the jpeg
processor in the camera is programmed to call the color space it labels your
image. That jpeg color space might as well be called "Muffy" or "Froofroo"
because it is unique to the algorithms the manufacturer has programmed into
the camera hopefully taking into account the technical qualities of the
particular imaging sensor

Shoot the same image in jpeg and in raw and compare the colors and no matter
what the color spaces are labelled, even if both are labelled AdobeRGB, the
differences should be obvious --unless, like many people, you have limits in
your color vision of which you are not aware.

If you want to get more than interchangeable lens /mediocre point and shoot
image quality out of the D70 you should only shoot in raw. The D70 is a very
large and heavy kludge when used as a jpeg P&S pos.The D70 has extremely
well thought out in-camera computer protocols tailored to the specifics of
its sensor if you will learn to use it in RAW format. The programming of the
D70 for use in RAW format is one of the singular achievements in the history
of Nikon and is why, despite what most consumers realize, Canon
(consistently purveyors of great hardware crippled by buggy software)
actually had to play catch-up to Nikon.

But I digress from the main rant . . .

Although the wider gamut of AdobeRGB should be the better color space in
truth the color range of the D70 sensor does not correspond to that color
space. If a print is your final object understand that the gamut of inkjet
printers overlaps parts of but does not coincide with either sRGB or
AdobeRGB and is strongly affected by the optical qualites of the paper you
use, ambient lighting with which you view the print, the accuracy of the
printer's software drivers, etc. Many photographers cannot come to grips
with the fact that it is the gamut of the inkjet printer combined with the
optical qualities of the paper and the ambient room lighting that is all you
finally see, regardless of what settings were used in the camera, when you
view an inkjet print. You cannot achieve colors or lighting values wider
than what that combination of factors can yield in the print and you have to
learn how to estimate what your printer is going to do with your image when
processing the image.

There is an analogy here to the zen of the zone system to which people
caught up in digital technospeak seem oblivious.

Again presuming a good print is your ultimate objective whether your image
comes off the camera in AdobeRGB or sRGB is ultimately less important than
how you manage color afterward. There is no way to print consistently
without calibrating your monitor and understanding color management
protocols. Color management protocols and reliability vary greatly among
printer manufacturers and most magazine reviews of printers are made by
people who are clueless about color management.If you do not care about
printing then none of this matters as the computer monitor image is nothing
more than a very malleable and loose interpretation of the underlying image
data to do with as you wish.
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 9:13:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

birdman....
Incredible answer... wonderful.... helpful.... knowledgable; I thank you for
your time!

Cordially,
Tim






"birdman" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:p pdze.2574$Tc6.1484@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
The short answer is that Adobe RGB is only useful/usable in the raw format
in the D70 so if you do not shoot in raw format you get whatever the jpeg
processor in the camera is programmed to call the color space it labels your
image. That jpeg color space might as well be called "Muffy" or "Froofroo"
because it is unique to the algorithms the manufacturer has programmed into
the camera hopefully taking into account the technical qualities of the
particular imaging sensor

Shoot the same image in jpeg and in raw and compare the colors and no matter
what the color spaces are labelled, even if both are labelled AdobeRGB, the
differences should be obvious --unless, like many people, you have limits in
your color vision of which you are not aware.

If you want to get more than interchangeable lens /mediocre point and shoot
image quality out of the D70 you should only shoot in raw. The D70 is a very
large and heavy kludge when used as a jpeg P&S pos.The D70 has extremely
well thought out in-camera computer protocols tailored to the specifics of
its sensor if you will learn to use it in RAW format. The programming of the
D70 for use in RAW format is one of the singular achievements in the history
of Nikon and is why, despite what most consumers realize, Canon
(consistently purveyors of great hardware crippled by buggy software)
actually had to play catch-up to Nikon.

But I digress from the main rant . . .

Although the wider gamut of AdobeRGB should be the better color space in
truth the color range of the D70 sensor does not correspond to that color
space. If a print is your final object understand that the gamut of inkjet
printers overlaps parts of but does not coincide with either sRGB or
AdobeRGB and is strongly affected by the optical qualites of the paper you
use, ambient lighting with which you view the print, the accuracy of the
printer's software drivers, etc. Many photographers cannot come to grips
with the fact that it is the gamut of the inkjet printer combined with the
optical qualities of the paper and the ambient room lighting that is all you
finally see, regardless of what settings were used in the camera, when you
view an inkjet print. You cannot achieve colors or lighting values wider
than what that combination of factors can yield in the print and you have to
learn how to estimate what your printer is going to do with your image when
processing the image.

There is an analogy here to the zen of the zone system to which people
caught up in digital technospeak seem oblivious.

Again presuming a good print is your ultimate objective whether your image
comes off the camera in AdobeRGB or sRGB is ultimately less important than
how you manage color afterward. There is no way to print consistently
without calibrating your monitor and understanding color management
protocols. Color management protocols and reliability vary greatly among
printer manufacturers and most magazine reviews of printers are made by
people who are clueless about color management.If you do not care about
printing then none of this matters as the computer monitor image is nothing
more than a very malleable and loose interpretation of the underlying image
data to do with as you wish.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 4:18:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:13:57 GMT, "birdman" <apquilts@pacbell.net>
wrote:

*The short answer is that Adobe RGB is only useful/usable in the raw format
*in the D70 so if you do not shoot in raw format you get whatever the jpeg
*processor in the camera is programmed to call the color space it labels your
*image. That jpeg color space might as well be called "Muffy" or "Froofroo"
*because it is unique to the algorithms the manufacturer has programmed into
*the camera hopefully taking into account the technical qualities of the
*particular imaging sensor
*
RAW format does have its own color space limited by the hardware. It
does not matter which CS is loaded, RAW will not use it. When you open
RAW, manipulate, save as - you will nominate CS required.
In my view sRGB or Adobe RGB relates to TIFF created by a camera. JPEG
- would have to check the specification, if it can use other than
sRGB.
!