Tom's Hardware: Topic Sir Gates?
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Sir Bill, really, I guess.
Geez, I sure hope this is a joke!
Have they truely run out of remarkable people out there?
OIE!
Well I guess there has to be a BLACK Knight even in this era.
<A HREF="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/ngates25.xml" target="_new">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/ngates25.xml</A>
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 01/25/04 11:51 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Personally I think it is the name... I mean, Bill Gates, Bill Clinton, two of the nicest, sweetest, most honest people you could ever hope to meet, always looking to help their fellow man at any cost!!! I don't see how you all can badmouth Mr. Gates!
I HATE NET NAZIS!!!
Actually it's not just reserved for the British, memebers of the Commonwealth can carry the title, but may also be restricted as well. However it is not the Commonwealth or British law/tradition that is keeping him from the title it is the US.
None the less his receving the honour cheapens the rest. Pure PR on all sides.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
| Quote : The man donates billions not millions a year to the American education system BILLIONS. |
No, that would be MILLIONS, not BILLIONS!
The Bill and Melinda fudn is only 6 Billion in size and does NOT donate more than10% per year.
He has said he WILL give the bulk of his assets to education pledged IN the future, and curently some of it IS willed, but it is not CURRENTLY donated, big difference (BTW wills can be changed)
| Quote : I personally get appalled when I see an American bad mouth Gates |
I'm personally appalled by people deifying someone who is the driving force behind the anti-competitive policies of the company he runs.
| Quote : People like you are just obviously jealous and resentful since you haven’t done anything close to matching this mans achievements. |
Achievements? What has he 'achieved' other than wealth?
Should we respect a drug lord as well, simply because he's rich and gives a meagre amount of his money to chairties? Don't try to make him out to be something more than he is. Surprising how most these charitable donations started AFTER the Anti-trust proceedings started.
| Quote : You should pay respect to a man that has spearheading you gaming internet instant messaging and lovely digital world you live in. Could someone else have done it? |
The above statement proves you know NOTHING of the history of his company, nor the computer environment it evolved within. And yes, MANY people DID do it, first and often BETTER. And what he did was deemed to be ILLEGAL, so don't try and gloss it over.
| Quote : Sure but it wouldn’t be in the same controlled very organized world we are in now and that’s a damned fact. |
BS, a statement about an alternate universe CANNOT be a fact in this one. You nor anyone else can say WHAT would have happened. Perhaps the lack of the BSODs and compatibility issues WITHIN MS would have freed people up to come to an open conensus that would now work BETTER than MS across a more universal platform, like UNIX/LINUX, there's no way you or anyone can tell. The lack of BSODs sure would free up more time for people. Just remember the one fact, that the way MS achieved and abused it current position WAS illegal, and that's a Fact, Jack!
| Quote : Oh and for the record Gates has done nothing wrong other than me a very good business man. |
Well that actually is the opposite of the OFFICIAL record.
| Quote : Clinton on the other hand smeared the vows that are marriage |
which has nothing to do with any of this, and the last person who would want his marriage examined is Gates so don't go there.
| Quote : lied to the American people and man a mockery of your presidency. |
Unlike every other president in US history? You're apparent dislike for Clinton makes alot of sense considering it was under his administration that MS was brought to atone for it's actions.
In the long run Gates is not a remarkable man in anything other than the luck that his company has had with the ebb and flow of the computer/technology industry; and mostly he has benifited through the knowledge, actions and hard work of others.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
| Quote : I merely stated he is Satan. |
Again a grossly incorrect statement, he’s a business man, ruthless, overaggressive, and downright mean but in no way does that make him Satan. Unless of course you mean that one time in the circle... we don’t need to go over that now do we 
.
| Quote : Gates never 'coded' anything. |
K so that compiler IBM wanted came out of no where right?
| Quote : Windows was stolen from apple. |
The court never was able to prove that. But I will admit the idea of MacOS was implemented into Windows quite nicely 
.
| Quote : No, that would be MILLIONS, not BILLIONS!
|
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t you just say 6 billion? Wow 10% Jesus 10% of a few billion per year is still a crap load of cash isn’t it 
?
| Quote : I'm personally appalled by people deifying someone who is the driving force behind the anti-competitive policies of the company he runs. |
Would you do it any other way there friend?
| Quote : Achievements? What has he 'achieved' other than wealth? |
Wealth is one but what he has achieved in business and what his company has done with software can’t go unnoticed. Regardless of what you think you’re using his achievements right now.
| Quote : Should we respect a drug lord as well, simply because he's rich and gives a meager amount of his money to charities? |
That’s a unfair comparison, the scenario has nothing to do with the monopoly known as Microsoft.
| Quote : Surprising how most these charitable donations started AFTER the Anti-trust proceedings started. |
Last I checked he’s always donated a constant amount but like you said it’s based on earnings so it’s always in flux. But until you prove that he has deliberate schemes to how he donates just don’t say anything since I can clearly read your unnecessary attitude. Last I checked no one has made a personal attack on anyone...yet .
| Quote : The above statement proves you know NOTHING of the history of his company, nor the computer environment it evolved within. And yes, MANY people DID do it, first and often BETTER. And what he did was deemed to be ILLEGAL, so don't try and gloss it over. |
I actually do know quite abet about the company but obviously you are attempting to swat me down with your e-penis attack . But seriously I don’t have a problem with his crushing of competition since I would have done the same thing. Competition is nice but it does complicate the maximum profit yields. But maybe that’s where we are having an obvious communication issue since my business ideals are oviously clashing with yours which is fine and dandy. Just wish the replies had less attitude.
| Quote : BS, a statement about an alternate universe CANNOT be a fact in this one. You nor anyone else can say WHAT would have happened. Perhaps the lack of the BSODs and compatibility issues WITHIN MS would have freed people up to come to an open consensus that would now work BETTER than MS across a more universal platform, like UNIX/LINUX, there's no way you or anyone can tell. The lack of BSODs sure would free up more time for people. Just remember the one fact, that the way MS achieved and abused it current position WAS illegal, and that's a Fact, Jack! |
I’m pretty sure I can safely say the industry wouldn’t be where it is now if we didn’t have MS. Since Linux isn’t being bashed about by MS they would probably be a few years behind since there really isn’t anything to try and destroy with in this alternate universe you speak of. Also with the legal thing it may be a fact but I don’t see the courts passing sentence to them. Regardless of the cost issues if someone in the courts felt it was truly necessary to take MS down a notch they would but they aren’t and that’s not for me to judge since im not American.
| Quote : which has nothing to do with any of this, and the last person who would want his marriage examined is Gates so don't go there. |
Just a example Mr. cranky pants . In recent years Clinton comes to mind first on bad press.
| Quote : In the long run Gates is not a remarkable man in anything other than the luck that his company has had with the ebb and flow of the computer/technology industry; and mostly he has benefited through the knowledge, actions and hard work of others. |
Luck that’s a part of it but most of it is how he played people and companies. You have to admire and man that saw something like MS and against all the odds came out on top. But hey you just figured out how to get ahead in life, you got to step on people to get to the top sooner than later you’ll realize this.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
Well the first part is Holy Handgrenade's the rest is mine. A little effort on your part would've kept things accurate.
But none the less. No Bill Didn't make his version of DOS nor Windows. Both were appropriated from other companies. IBM's mistake was allowing Microsoft the freedom to sell to others under their licensing agreement.
As for Windows, sure the GUI was stolen from apple, and yes they were apple to prove it, the only things is that xerox was able to prove (much to microsoft's relief) that the idea was theirs first, that's why the case went nowhere, not because MS invented windows.
[quote[Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t you just say 6 billion? Wow 10% Jesus 10% of a few billion per year is still a crap load of cash isn’t it ?[/quote]
What I said is that it isn't even 10%. And you said BILLIONS, not MILLIONS, meaning you don't know JACK!
| Quote : Would you do it any other way there friend? |
Probably, but we will never know. Considering my actually HELPING many people and working on many projects for FREE or for BEER, yeah I'm pretty sure my methods would be different. I'm not looking to prove something or be the ruler of anything. I prefer to move forward. Gimme a hot wife, nice house in the middle of nowhere, and unlimited supply of vacation travel, skiing, beer, sattelite, and internet, and I'm completely satisfied. But if I did do it his way I wouldn't expect to be cannonized, except of course by the blind followers of money. Perhaps coming from wealth gives me a different perspective on it, but then again so did Billy.
| Quote : Wealth is one but what he has achieved in business and what his company has done with software can’t go unnoticed. Regardless of what you think you’re using his achievements right now. |
Show me one thing he has done other than create an illegal monopoly and become wealthy? You say he has achieved so much, then show us. I could show you some minor things, but you hold him up as some great man who has contributed so much. Even MS's contributions are well below that of other companies. I know more about the history of MS, and the software field than you do (obviously), and what is too often seen as his and ms's achievements are actually those of other companies/people which he's acquired. Considering the position that MS is in their lack of more benificial contributions is actually an inditement of their actions. IBM on the other hand while being big blue, and was once the purported monopolist that MS is, has developed TONS of things, every year they break ground for the whole industry. MS, not so much.
| Quote : In reply to:
|
Oh, no you don't. That is a completely fair comparison. You talk about his 'BILLIONS' given to charity, so it's a damn fair comparison, both actions are illegal, and if you want to use a scale to judge illegal, then consider Capone with Rum Running! And BTW, Cartels are VERY similar to Monopolies, they would be considered Oligopolistic. The main focus is that giving money doesn't make someone great, the sum of their actions does, and therefore giving to chaity is not the only good judge of character.
| Quote : Last I checked he’s always donated a constant amount but like you said it’s based on earnings so it’s always in flux. |
Last time you checked where? Look at the largest contributions and the setting up of the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. The bulk of the donations occured AFTER the Anti-trust trials started and got larger and more prolific in the news the closer they got to crunch time.
| Quote : But until you prove that he has deliberate schemes to how he donates just don’t say anything |
Free country, and what I'm doing isn't illegal, what he's doing is. BTW, learn about libel laws. In the US HE has to prove he DIDN'T do that. Which I doubt he could.
| Quote : since I can clearly read your unnecessary attitude. Last I checked no one has made a personal attack on anyone...yet . |
I <b>Personally</b> don't care if someone sees it as a personal attack, I'm not worried about him having the chance to voice a response, he has more opportunities than most anyone else. If you take my criticising him personally, then you'd better take a breather.
| Quote : I actually do know quite abet about the company but obviously you are attempting to swat me down with your e-penis attack |
You haven't demonstrated any knowledge on the subject sofar. Your statements alone show an ignorance of the environment that MS evolved in and if you knew the company better you'd know it's real contributions to society, which aren't as grandiose as you portray them as being.
| Quote : But seriously I don’t have a problem with his crushing of competition since I would have done the same thing. |
Fine, so you would have done it yourself. Doesn't make it a laudable action for people with morals, or a basic understanding of law or economics.
| Quote : I’m pretty sure I can safely say the industry wouldn’t be where it is now if we didn’t have MS. |
With a generalised statement like that who couldn't BTW, I'm sure of exactly the same thing, but probably in the completely opposite direction. Since you want to talk hypotheticals, let's say OS/2 was the vitor in the second round of the OS wars, you think that in anyway IBM would've had as much trouble integrating systems better than Microsoft? Considering the number of standards THEY created, I'm pretty certain that they would've done a MUCH better job, of course that's not the FACT you seem to think you have.
| Quote : Since Linux isn’t being bashed about by MS they would probably be a few years behind since there really isn’t anything to try and destroy with in this alternate universe you speak of. |
You linux example is flawed in the sense that the creator did not do it for profit, would likely have done it none the less aganst OS/2, AIX, etc. And had it succeeded (although likely would have been different focus) it would have followed the same path it does now, which is to make it more widely acceptable. Without a dominant player it would have been adopted faster and developed quicker too. One thing about IBM, is they went through anti-trust before (and won) and therefore were always cautious of not abusing their position because they didn't want to go through that again. I wouldn't be surprised if an upstart against a dominant OS/2 would've been given an even wider berth, the issue would have been who would big the big blue to take up the cause in this alternate universe? None the less your argument is pretty empty the OS/2 option alone would give you at the very least a similar outcome, let alone the players like GEOWORKS.
| Quote : Also with the legal thing it may be a fact but I don’t see the courts passing sentence to them. Regardless of the cost issues if someone in the courts felt it was truly necessary to take MS down a notch they would but they aren’t and that’s not for me to judge since im not American.
|
Sentencing was passed, and commuted by the 'friends of bill.... gates' in the WH. And that last statement provides WHY you don't know much about the issue. BTW, if you knew so much about MS' history, you'd know they were taken down a notch, and are still struggling through that whole issue, even with the help of the current administration.
| Quote : In recent years Clinton comes to mind first on bad press. |
An example of a totally unrelated issue. But thanks for the trip into the absurd, usually I have to pay for something like that.
| Quote : Luck that’s a part of it but most of it is how he played people and companies. You have to admire and man that saw something like MS and against all the odds came out on top. |
Not against all odds. What are you talking about. He's not a kid from the streets, he's not some autistic savant, and he didn't SEE something in MS, MS lucked out that when IBM needed an OS, they didn't make the licensing rules so strict as to keep MS a small player. Without that deal MS would be another LOTUS or less. That DOS he sold to IBM he didn't even make that, he bought it, and if you know the history there's alot fo question as to how legal those dealings were too. So don't tell me there's something special there.
| Quote : But hey you just figured out how to get ahead in life, you got to step on people to get to the top sooner than later you’ll realize this. |
Only someone from a sick and twisted place would think that this is something to be admired.
You still haven't be able to provide one iota of evidence to these great contributions you speak of. And stepping on others is not something to be admired. Any researcher or even lowly techer has made more of a contribution to society than Bill. Sure Bill may have had more of an influence, but I'd say his contributions pale in comparison to the millions if not BILLIONS (to adapt your term) of more deserving people out there.
Bill may not be Satan, but he's definitely not a Saint either.
BTW, learn to quote properly next time.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
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