Problems w/ stability after adding WC

[waylander]

Ok, here's my issue. I've added water cooling to my system and it's become unstable. It was fine before I added it and I ran the WC for 6 hours with no power to my system for testing before adding power after there were no leaks.

My specs are in my sig but I've added five 120mm fans (total of six led 120mm fans and 2 90mm fans), 2 cold cathodes and a pump. I also have 3 hdd's, one optical and a fan/light controller.

If I take the fan controller and 3 of the 120mm fans out of the system then I'm stable again. This makes me think it's a power issue. Anyone have similar issues and is my 600W (35A on 12v rail) insufficient?

If the power is the issue would you recommend a second psu for the fans/pump/hdd's/optical/fan controller or getting a beefier single psu? I was looking at the pc power and cooling 1kw psu but it's costs more than 3 good 600w psu's and since I already own one 600w psu adding a second would only cost $150 whereas the 1kw is almost $500. How many amps on the 12v rail do I need? The psu calculators don't really consider amps just watts.

 

[pengwin]

i would go with 1 better PSU.

does the enermax have 35Amps allthogether?

i believe its a power issue.

look to the Fortron Source Elipson quad railed.

 

[waylander]

The enermax is two 12v rails with 22 amps each but total is 35 amps. Why do you say go with one good one? I could probably even get away with a 400W second psu if all I'm powering is peripherals... Then I'm under $100.

 

[phreejak]

Adding a second PSU is just a big mess - not really something I'd do. To me the PC Power & Cooling are overrated now as many companies introduced their newer power supplies at Computex which will be in the neighborhood of 850 - 1200 watts and all will be cheaper than PC P&C's offerrings (for the most part. You can even get a CoolMax Green 1000w monster (quad rails - 19amps each) at ZipZoomFly for barely over $300 (after rebate). I like the Fortron unit that Pengwin suggested but mine had issues powering a 7900 GTX so buyer beware. To me, I favor the Silverstone 750. It's extremely stable and has a good 18 amps per 12v rail on a quad rail setup. Just to prove a point about it -

My system:
Cooler Master Stacker Case
*3.46 Presler on an Abit Aw8D board
*2GB DDR2 800
*Soundblaster X-Fi Fatality
*(2) DL DVD Burners
*(2) 36GB Raptors
*250 GB WD
*XFX 7900 GTX Extreme
*52-in-1 card reader
*Floppy Drive
*(11) 120mm fans - My CPU is cooled by a Peltier to which I have 2 dual 120 rads (exterior) which are cooled by a "push-pull" config - 4 fans per rad - and I have both a NB chipset and GPU waterblock in the loop. Plus, I have one fan for HDD cooling, one intake and one outtake for a total of 11
*Swiftech MCP655 waterpump

All that is powered by a Silverstone SST-ST75ZF 750 watt powersupply.

 

[MasterLee]

If you're on water, why all of the fans ?LOL
Use a small fan for the CPU power circut, that's all you need for that, then use intake and exhaust, that's it. If you have a spare power supply wire it to your fans only, that'll leave the other supply for your system, that's why I use 2 and it works quite well. My 145 Watt only powers my radiator fans, my video card cool box(for cooling the memory), CPU power circut, and hard drive fans. I also like the idea of controlling the fans independantly of the main system.
By the way, my water pump is not connected to the main power, I don't like the idea of the pump coming on and the water flowing after power is applied. I turn on the fans and pump before main power. The computer will not boot unless the pump is on either, so I don't have to worry about remembering that.
If you need a new supply, use the old one for fans.

 

[APieceOfCheese]

With all that and those 2 7800gtx power hogs I'm pretty sure its a power problem.

Your 600w seems to be enough to power your core system so I'd get a supplementary power supply. They're usually smaller and have less wattage than normal PSUs. They make them to power TE modules and things like that. Most of them require you to wire the object straight to the positive and negative terminals on the supp. PSU though. Newegg sells one that fits in a 5.25 bay and uses standard 4 pin molex connectors.

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

I would say get a new power supply. I've never been overly fond of Enermaxes, I prefer Antec, OCZ, PCP & P, Fortron, and the Aerocool I'm buying on Thursday for my new AM2 rig. </bias>

 

[pengwin]

The enermax is two 12v rails with 22 amps each but total is 35 amps. Why do you say go with one good one? I could probably even get away with a 400W second psu if all I'm powering is peripherals... Then I'm under $100.

well because that way u have 1 large PSu and not a 2nd one hanging out or on top.

 

[waylander]

Actually I'm not afraid to mod my case and the armor is big enough that I can install it in the case, cut a hole for the exhaust and for the switch and power plug and I'm on the way.

I also don't want to pay too much for another good supply when all I really need to power is the pump and some fans.

I also have so many fans because I water cool and I still need air flow past the heat sink for the passively cooled chipset. My fan set up is as follows: 4 on the radiator (rad is inside the case so it's like 2 intake fans), 1 side cool intake, 1 rear exhaust, 1 top exhaust, 1 exhaust behind the hdd unit at the top of the case.

The second psu doesn't need to be a monster, I think 400w or less would work as long as it has at least 2 12v rails with 20amps total to run just the fans and pump.

 

[maury73]

If you are unstable by the difference of 3 120mm fans only you are at the limit even without the WC system. Fans draw very little power, about 1-2W at maximum, so if you go unstable with only 6W of difference you have serious power issues.
Go for a better PSU for the entire system, not for a second PSU for the WC only.

 

[pengwin]

ok then go for it grab like an Antec NeoHE 380, something that modular.

 

[waylander]

I would like to point out that it's not only the extra fans but the pump and cathodes. When I had my system air cooled with 4 fans it was stable. Adding the pump another 4 led fans and 2 cold cathodes is when it got unstable and I agree with the fact that the fans alone would not do it. Also, the Antec tricool led fans use 2.88w and 0.25amps per fan. The pump uses 24w and 2amps. I don't know how much cold cathodes use but probably not much. But just the fans and pump have added 35w and 4amps.

My old system is coming up at requiring 548w from this site.

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

With my w/c and sound card (forgot to mention this, another 7w) as well as the fans and lights i'm now at 620w and since I want to oc (entire purpose of w/c) that takes me to 680w...

But if I take only my mb, ram, cpu and video cards it's 470w... god those 7800gtx's are power hogs...

 

[pengwin]

only if u had 7900GTX's.

 

[waylander]

Thanks for the info Phreejak, I've gone and ordered the Silverstone 750W as well. It's only $200 and even if it's not enough by itself I can use the 600W as my secondary.

I was impressed with the 60amps total on the quad rail 12v lines. Almost twice the amps I have now.

 

[chuckshissle]

Yeah, it's more likely that the water cooling pump is draining the power or surging it making your whole system unstable. You can either get upgrade to a more powerful psu or get a separate one for the pump. I got a 600w psu and runs my two separate water cooling as well as the system very stable.

 

[rodney_ws]

I have the same board, the same video (just one, not SLI like your rig), the same case, an AMD X2-4400 and 2 GB of RAM... the video card OC'd as well as the processor... and I too have a watercooled system... all being run by a 480 watt PSU. I just cannot fathom a quality 600 watt PSU to be your problem... I believe there is an online power calculator (Google for it!) that'll give you an idea of what your system is pulling... I just refuse to believe that your system (or a vast majority out there) require a 600+ watt PSU... but hey, it's your money not mine

 

[pengwin]

Thanks for the info Phreejak, I've gone and ordered the Silverstone 750W as well. It's only $200 and even if it's not enough by itself I can use the 600W as my secondary.

I was impressed with the 60amps total on the quad rail 12v lines. Almost twice the amps I have now.

NOOO!OO!O!O!O!OO!O


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817812001


quadl rails 20 amps each which would technically be 80 amps!!!

 

[waylander]

Yes but the amps don't just add up. The Silverstone has 4 rails at 18amps each but they don't add up to 72 amps, only to 60.

rodney, I've gone through everything I could think of to see what was wrong and could only get stable by removing some fans (all but 2 on rad) and all unnecessary peripherals and if you actually read all my posts you'll see that i did use an online calculator. Also, those 7800gtx's are power hogs, one uses 85w alone, think of two. Further, not all water cooling is equal, especially not those pos prebuilt systems like the aquagate which probably use half the power mine does (if that).

 

[pengwin]

Yes but the amps don't just add up. The Silverstone has 4 rails at 18amps each but they don't add up to 72 amps, only to 60.

rodney, I've gone through everything I could think of to see what was wrong and could only get stable by removing some fans (all but 2 on rad) and all unnecessary peripherals and if you actually read all my posts you'll see that i did use an online calculator. Also, those 7800gtx's are power hogs, one uses 85w alone, think of two. Further, not all water cooling is equal, especially not those pos prebuilt systems like the aquagate which probably use half the power mine does (if that).

i agree but the rails will merge if something uses too much power

where is crash man he was writing about it

 

[waylander]

Ya I understand that part where if one of the rails needs more power it will merge them all for the necessary amount but I still don't think the total would be the sum of the parts. For instance if that was true and you had 20amps per rail (adding up to 80) then 80 x 12 = 920W!!!! Doesn't work.

 

[phreejak]

Waylander, there are many good PSU's out there that would suffice with what you want and everyone advice is good. The Silverstone is a fine power supply and it will do you well. I've more in my system dependant on my power supply than you so you should not have any trouble with it.

You'll be planty satisfied with it and it'll give you some headroom for future upgrading so you can have peace of mind. Good amps, good overall wattage and, probably just as important, it is stable (meaning there is little, if any really, variances from the components stated voltages - DDR, CPU, MCH, ICH, ATX +12v 24-pin, ATX +12v 4-pin, ATX +5v).