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[Article] Lost at Sea, Found in a Flash

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Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:09:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"A high-flying, student-assembled research balloon that appeared
doomed after crashing into the Pacific Ocean has ended up yielding
valuable astronomical data, thanks to hardy memory cards that survived
the plunge."

http://news.com.com/Lost+at+sea%2C+found+in+flash/2100-...

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:31:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

From: "Owamanga" <owamanga-not-this-bit@hotmail.com>

| "A high-flying, student-assembled research balloon that appeared
| doomed after crashing into the Pacific Ocean has ended up yielding
| valuable astronomical data, thanks to hardy memory cards that survived
| the plunge."
|
|
http://news.com.com/Lost+at+sea%2C+found+in+flash/2100-...
|
| --
| Owamanga!
| http://www.pbase.com/owamanga

I love it !

"Two inexpensive store-bought SanDisk memory cards survived the crash and a soaking in the
ocean, raising intriguing possibilities for other uses of the sturdy consumer electronics
storage devices, which are small and light, and don't have many moving parts."

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 3:25:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:
> From: "Owamanga" <owamanga-not-this-bit@hotmail.com>
>
>> "A high-flying, student-assembled research balloon that appeared
>> doomed after crashing into the Pacific Ocean has ended up yielding
>> valuable astronomical data, thanks to hardy memory cards that
>> survived
>> the plunge."
>>
>>
> http://news.com.com/Lost+at+sea%2C+found+in+flash/2100-...
>>
>> --
>> Owamanga!
>> http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
>
> I love it !
>
> "Two inexpensive store-bought SanDisk memory cards survived the crash
> and a soaking in the
> ocean, raising intriguing possibilities for other uses of the sturdy
> consumer electronics
> storage devices, which are small and light, and don't have many
> moving parts."

So much for worrying about airport X-ray machines.

Ken.
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Anonymous
July 12, 2005 10:27:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:D hwAe.9596$xB6.7038@trnddc03...
> From: "Owamanga" <owamanga-not-this-bit@hotmail.com>
>
> | "A high-flying, student-assembled research balloon that appeared
> | doomed after crashing into the Pacific Ocean has ended up yielding
> | valuable astronomical data, thanks to hardy memory cards that survived
> | the plunge."
> |
> |
> http://news.com.com/Lost+at+sea%2C+found+in+flash/2100-...
> |
> | --
> | Owamanga!
> | http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
>
> I love it !
>
> "Two inexpensive store-bought SanDisk memory cards survived the crash and
> a soaking in the
> ocean, raising intriguing possibilities for other uses of the sturdy
> consumer electronics
> storage devices, which are small and light, and don't have many moving
> parts."

Aww... You beat me to it!! I had just copied that paragraph to past in a
post here...

-Gotta love the line about "and don't have MANY moving parts."

Ummm...Which MOVING PARTS **DOES** IT HAVE?????
:) 
Answer: None.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 11:33:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Ken Davey" <PGJSCAYQVANK@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:3jh62uFpv05mU1@individual.net...
> David H. Lipman wrote:
>> From: "Owamanga" <owamanga-not-this-bit@hotmail.com>
>>
>>> "A high-flying, student-assembled research balloon that appeared
>>> doomed after crashing into the Pacific Ocean has ended up yielding
>>> valuable astronomical data, thanks to hardy memory cards that
>>> survived
>>> the plunge."
>>>
>>>
>> http://news.com.com/Lost+at+sea%2C+found+in+flash/2100-...
>>>
>>> --
>>> Owamanga!
>>> http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
>>
>> I love it !
>>
>> "Two inexpensive store-bought SanDisk memory cards survived the crash
>> and a soaking in the
>> ocean, raising intriguing possibilities for other uses of the sturdy
>> consumer electronics
>> storage devices, which are small and light, and don't have many
>> moving parts."
>
> So much for worrying about airport X-ray machines.
>
> Ken.

though I dont, why do you think the effects of radiation would be similar to
seawater?

BTW, Sandisk themselves published a similar story about some memory cards in
a camera that survived a few weeks underwater in a small plane wreck in a
lake, at least 5 years ago.
--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 2:57:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:27:47 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
number here)@cox..net> wrote:

> Aww... You beat me to it!! I had just copied that paragraph to past in a
> post here...
>
> -Gotta love the line about "and don't have MANY moving parts."
>
> Ummm...Which MOVING PARTS **DOES** IT HAVE?????
> :) 
> Answer: None.

The small amount of flash RAM built into some cameras have no
moving parts. The flash RAM that's contained within CF, SD and
other packages have one moving part. The case itself! They cards
do have to be moved into and out of the camera, don't they? Well,
'into', maybe not 'out of'. I suppose there may be a photographer
or two that has only a single card, and never uses card readers.

And don't forget that most critical of moving parts, WP switches
used by SD cards. That they make no electrical connection with any
circuit sealed within the case is only a minor quibble. :) 
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:07:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

From: "Ken Davey" <PGJSCAYQVANK@spammotel.com>


|
| So much for worrying about airport X-ray machines.
|
| Ken.
|

High energy particles are another matter all together. X-Rays are a low end high level
radiation and may or may not cause problems depending on the energy influence per square
millimetre. Other high energy particle generates such as Gamma Ray scanners (used to detect
explosives) could have detrimental effects. Then there are neutrinos. It is a known fact
that Neotrinos do have an impact on Large Scale Integreated (LSI) circuits which Flash RAM
are comprised of.


--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:07:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:07:40 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
<DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:

>From: "Ken Davey" <PGJSCAYQVANK@spammotel.com>
>
>
>|
>| So much for worrying about airport X-ray machines.
>|
>| Ken.
>|
>
>High energy particles are another matter all together. X-Rays are a low end high level
>radiation and may or may not cause problems depending on the energy influence per square
>millimetre. Other high energy particle generates such as Gamma Ray scanners (used to detect
>explosives) could have detrimental effects. Then there are neutrinos. It is a known fact
>that Neotrinos do have an impact on Large Scale Integreated (LSI) circuits which Flash RAM
>are comprised of.

Neutrinos? Get real.

http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html

"Neutrinos are similar to the more familiar electron, with one crucial
difference: neutrinos do not carry electric charge. Because neutrinos
are electrically neutral, they are not affected by the electromagnetic
forces which act on electrons. Neutrinos are affected only by a "weak"
sub-atomic force of much shorter range than electromagnetism, and are
therefore able to pass through great distances in matter without being
affected by it. "
******************************************************

"I have been a witness, and these pictures are
my testimony. The events I have recorded should
not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

-James Nachtwey-
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:07:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

We use ECC memory in high end systems to reduce the effect that Neutrinos
have on memory cells. Random strikes by Neutrinos will flip the storage
state of a memory cell in DRAM devices. There may be some possible effects
on the static state of other memory technology.

rtt



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Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:07:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:23:02 -0400, "Richard Tomkins"
<tomkinsr@istop.com> wrote:

>We use ECC memory in high end systems to reduce the effect that Neutrinos
>have on memory cells. Random strikes by Neutrinos will flip the storage
>state of a memory cell in DRAM devices. There may be some possible effects
>on the static state of other memory technology.

How can a particle which no charge flip a storage state? Do you know
what a neutrino is? They are damn hard to detect and don't interact
much.


******************************************************

"I have been a witness, and these pictures are
my testimony. The events I have recorded should
not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

-James Nachtwey-
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:07:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Richard Tomkins wrote:
> We use ECC memory in high end systems to reduce the effect that Neutrinos
> have on memory cells. Random strikes by Neutrinos will flip the storage
> state of a memory cell in DRAM devices. There may be some possible effects
> on the static state of other memory technology.

Boy, astronomers would love to know about this effect! Currently, they use
huge (I think on the order of 100,000 gallon) tanks of ultra-pure water
thousands of feet below ground (or below the sea) in an attempt to detect
neutrinos at all. They average one or two per day.

Austin
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:50:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"AustinMN" <Austin260@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ct2dncUssdfWfU7fRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> Richard Tomkins wrote:
>> We use ECC memory in high end systems to reduce the effect that Neutrinos
>> have on memory cells. Random strikes by Neutrinos will flip the storage
>> state of a memory cell in DRAM devices. There may be some possible
>> effects
>> on the static state of other memory technology.
>
> Boy, astronomers would love to know about this effect! Currently, they
> use huge (I think on the order of 100,000 gallon) tanks of ultra-pure
> water thousands of feet below ground (or below the sea) in an attempt to
> detect neutrinos at all. They average one or two per day.
>
> Austin
Yeah, but Murphy's law says that if it's possible for a neutrino to flip a
memory position and screw up your experiment, then it's going to happen,
even if the chances are less than one in a trillion.........Furthermore, it
will never happen here on earth, where you can fix it and try again. It will
only happen when your experiment is at the apogee of its orbit, a trillion
miles or more into outer space.........
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 7:16:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:57:52 -0400, ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:27:47 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
>number here)@cox..net> wrote:
>
>> Aww... You beat me to it!! I had just copied that paragraph to past in a
>> post here...
>>
>> -Gotta love the line about "and don't have MANY moving parts."
>>
>> Ummm...Which MOVING PARTS **DOES** IT HAVE?????
>> :) 
>> Answer: None.
>
> The small amount of flash RAM built into some cameras have no
>moving parts. The flash RAM that's contained within CF, SD and
>other packages have one moving part. The case itself! They cards
>do have to be moved into and out of the camera, don't they? Well,
>'into', maybe not 'out of'. I suppose there may be a photographer
>or two that has only a single card, and never uses card readers.
>
> And don't forget that most critical of moving parts, WP switches
>used by SD cards. That they make no electrical connection with any
>circuit sealed within the case is only a minor quibble. :) 

Wossa WP switch?

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 7:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:16:53 GMT, Owamanga wrote:

> Wossa WP switch?

Write Protect. Missing from MMP but added to SD. Like the
sliding tab on 3 1/4" floppies and 8mm cassettes, it's only there so
that it's position can be detected by the device it's inserted in.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 7:44:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:27:47 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
> number here)@cox..net> wrote:
>
>> Aww... You beat me to it!! I had just copied that paragraph to
>> past in a post here...
>>
>> -Gotta love the line about "and don't have MANY moving parts."
>>
>> Ummm...Which MOVING PARTS **DOES** IT HAVE?????
>> :) 
>> Answer: None.
>
> The small amount of flash RAM built into some cameras have no
> moving parts. The flash RAM that's contained within CF, SD and
> other packages have one moving part. The case itself! They cards
> do have to be moved into and out of the camera, don't they? Well,
> 'into', maybe not 'out of'. I suppose there may be a photographer
> or two that has only a single card, and never uses card readers.
>
> And don't forget that most critical of moving parts, WP switches
> used by SD cards. That they make no electrical connection with any
> circuit sealed within the case is only a minor quibble. :) 

It was SD cards which survived the ordeal.

WP = write protect.

David
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 8:00:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Whoah, I plead a mea culpa.

I am greatly sorry, for not having reviewed my ancient memory data.

I meant Alpha particles, not neutrinos, but my memory somehow got flipped.
Maybe I've been spending too much time being exposed to Gamma Rays, er,
particles.


"John A. Stovall" <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mrl7d1ld0t3q8rcof7pvn8a3nniau8rn71@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:23:02 -0400, "Richard Tomkins"
> <tomkinsr@istop.com> wrote:
>
> >We use ECC memory in high end systems to reduce the effect that Neutrinos
> >have on memory cells. Random strikes by Neutrinos will flip the storage
> >state of a memory cell in DRAM devices. There may be some possible
effects
> >on the static state of other memory technology.
>
> How can a particle which no charge flip a storage state? Do you know
> what a neutrino is? They are damn hard to detect and don't interact
> much.
>
>
> ******************************************************
>
> "I have been a witness, and these pictures are
> my testimony. The events I have recorded should
> not be forgotten and must not be repeated."
>
> -James Nachtwey-
> http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 9:16:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"AustinMN" <Austin260@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ct2dncUssdfWfU7fRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> Richard Tomkins wrote:
>> We use ECC memory in high end systems to reduce the effect that Neutrinos
>> have on memory cells. Random strikes by Neutrinos will flip the storage
>> state of a memory cell in DRAM devices. There may be some possible
>> effects
>> on the static state of other memory technology.
>
> Boy, astronomers would love to know about this effect! Currently, they
> use huge (I think on the order of 100,000 gallon) tanks of ultra-pure
> water thousands of feet below ground (or below the sea) in an attempt to
> detect neutrinos at all. They average one or two per day.

Is it possible you have those confused with dark matter.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 9:16:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:16:21 GMT, hot rod lincoln wrote:

>> Boy, astronomers would love to know about this effect! Currently, they
>> use huge (I think on the order of 100,000 gallon) tanks of ultra-pure
>> water thousands of feet below ground (or below the sea) in an attempt to
>> detect neutrinos at all. They average one or two per day.
>
> Is it possible you have those confused with dark matter.

No. It's the rare neutrino that doesn't pass cleanly through the
earth (the planet, that is).
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 9:16:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

ASAAR wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:16:21 GMT, hot rod lincoln wrote:
>
>>> Boy, astronomers would love to know about this effect! Currently, they
>>> use huge (I think on the order of 100,000 gallon) tanks of ultra-pure
>>> water thousands of feet below ground (or below the sea) in an attempt to
>>> detect neutrinos at all. They average one or two per day.
>>
>> Is it possible you have those confused with dark matter.
>
> No. It's the rare neutrino that doesn't pass cleanly through the
> earth (the planet, that is).

Actually, he may be partly right. Some dark matter theories (and maybe all
of them) consider neutrinos as one possible form of dark matter. But I'm
not confused on the matter. It is believed that billions (thousands of
millions for our European friends) of neutrinos pass through every cubic
inch (~14cc) of your body every second. The vast majority would keep going
right through the entire earth without interacting with _anything_.

Austin
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 11:50:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

> and don't have many moving parts.

Or any, for that matter...

-=-Joe
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 2:30:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "Ken Davey" <PGJSCAYQVANK@spammotel.com> wrote in message
> news:3jh62uFpv05mU1@individual.net...
>> David H. Lipman wrote:
>>> From: "Owamanga" <owamanga-not-this-bit@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>> "A high-flying, student-assembled research balloon that appeared
>>>> doomed after crashing into the Pacific Ocean has ended up yielding
>>>> valuable astronomical data, thanks to hardy memory cards that
>>>> survived
>>>> the plunge."
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://news.com.com/Lost+at+sea%2C+found+in+flash/2100-...
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Owamanga!
>>>> http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
>>>
>>> I love it !
>>>
>>> "Two inexpensive store-bought SanDisk memory cards survived the
>>> crash and a soaking in the
>>> ocean, raising intriguing possibilities for other uses of the sturdy
>>> consumer electronics
>>> storage devices, which are small and light, and don't have many
>>> moving parts."
>>
>> So much for worrying about airport X-ray machines.
>>
>> Ken.
>
> though I dont, why do you think the effects of radiation would be
> similar to seawater?
86,000 feet up? I would think there would be significant radiation at this
altitude.
And I was referring to the overall toughness of the device.

Ken.
>
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 6:30:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:00:23 -0400, Richard Tomkins wrote:

> I meant Alpha particles, not neutrinos, but my memory somehow got flipped.
> Maybe I've been spending too much time being exposed to Gamma Rays, er,
> particles.

Yep, them be the ones. I don't know if you recall, but the more
expensive chips used to be encased in ceramic, not plastic. Problem
was, the ceramic used was a source of alpha particles that tended to
eventually get lucky and (usually) produce soft errors, but
occasionally produce a permanent hard error. Marshal(l?) Ephron
will forgive you. :) 
!