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HP's new "faster" printers

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July 12, 2005 10:54:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Faster 4x6's! More nozzles! Well, awright! :) 

This seems aimed at the low end consumer market.

JJ


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp12jul12,0,21709...

HP Rolls Out Fast Printers to Keep Lead
By Terril Yue Jones
Times Staff Writer

July 12, 2005

In an effort to keep its most profitable division from losing more
ground to competitors, computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. on Monday
introduced a line of printers featuring a new high-speed printing
technology.

The lineup includes what HP calls the world's fastest photo printer
and is aimed at fending off challenges from hard-charging Dell Inc.
and other rivals, including Lexmark International Inc.

Palo Alto-based HP's share of the U.S. market for so-called all-in-one
inkjet printers, a benchmark for success in the consumer market, fell
to 35% in the first quarter from 47.4% a year earlier, according to
research firm Gartner Inc.

Most of the lost business went to Dell, whose share of the market
skyrocketed to 15.6% from 1.5% during the same period. Although HP is
still the world's No. 1 seller of printers, "it's important for HP to
defend its market share," said Bruce Raabe, chief investment officer
for Collins & Co. in San Francisco, which owns HP shares.

"This is an industry that is always changing," Raabe said. "Because of
that, it's important for HP to be aggressive about developing new
enhancements to their printer line so existing customers will consider
upgrading and new customers will consider coming to the brand.

"That should go a long way to protecting their margins in the printer
business."

In HP's fiscal second quarter, which ended in April, operating profit
for its imaging and printing division was $814 million, down 15.4%
from the second quarter of 2004. Over the same span, the division's
operating margin fell to 12.7% from 15.8%.

HP's latest printers are based on new technology — developed over five
years at a cost of $1.4 billion — that dramatically increases the
number of ink-dispensing nozzles.

The high-speed photo printer, for example, crams 3,900 nozzles into
the print head, compared with 1,200 previously. The new model can
produce 4-by-6-inch color prints in 14 seconds, four times faster than
before, said Vyomesh Joshi, HP's executive vice president for imaging
and printing.

"Lexmark has no similar technology from a business model point of
view," Joshi said. "Even others like Epson and Canon don't have
similar technology, and it will take them three, four or five years to
catch up."

Dell doesn't make its printers. Lexmark builds Dell's inkjet printers,
and Dell has partnered with other printer makers that manufacture
laser and photo printers with the Dell brand.

"We don't comment on moves by our competitors," said Dell spokesman
Venancio Figueroa.

HP's new printers and future product offerings should help the company
raise its share of the global imaging and printing market to 17% from
11% by 2010, Joshi said.

He said HP should be able to expand into new markets such as retail
photo finishing, labeling and printing on packaging, signage and
corporate brochure printing.

"We can double our business in the next 10 years," he said.

HP's stock slipped 15 cents to $24.13 on Monday. Analysts, although
impressed with the new printer lineup, still want to see improving
profitability in the company's printing division.

"Product introductions are important, but the financial markets will
continue to focus on the margins of HP's printing segment, which have
been pressured the last few quarters," said Nick Nilarp, an analyst
for Fitch Ratings in New York.

Still, he noted, "HP is the leader in the market and has enough
[research and development] and intellectual property to remain the
leader for the next few years."

HP also contends that its new printers produce photos for about 24
cents apiece, 5 cents less than the industry average.

Apple Computer Inc. prints and mails photos for 19 cents a copy, and
so does Snapfish, HP's recently acquired online photo service. With a
prepaid card, however, photos from Snapfish can cost as little as 10
cents each. Hewlett-Packard has signed a deal with Walgreen Co. to
offer customers of the largest U.S. drugstore chain access to
Snapfish.

HP also introduced three digital cameras that incorporate new features
including the ability within the cameras to stitch together several
photos in a panorama view, "video action prints" to extract
publishable photos with resolution of about 1 megapixel from video
clips taken by the camera and automatic saving of photos with three
levels of backlight adjustment so users don't have to set the
adjustment manually.

Although Dell is encroaching on HP's printer territory, HP struck back
at its rival Monday, announcing that it has hired Randall Mott from
Dell to be its new chief information officer. Mott held the same job
at Dell for the last five years.

More about : faster printers

July 13, 2005 2:52:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Another marketing miss...
It might have interested me if the "breakthrough" were any of the following:
1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
2) archival quality pigmented inks
3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
Too bad HP went for "how to rip through more overpriced, underperforming
ink even faster"...guess they are desperately trying to regain the 15%
market
share they lost in the last year (50% down to 35%) but they could do much
better than this "idea".

<jj@unspameljefe.net> wrote in message
news:g748d19pu9huu2nm3p7i0l23ueo8p31cld@4ax.com...
> Faster 4x6's! More nozzles! Well, awright! :) 
>
> This seems aimed at the low end consumer market.
>
> JJ
>
>
> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp12jul12,0,21709...
>
> HP Rolls Out Fast Printers to Keep Lead
> By Terril Yue Jones
> Times Staff Writer
>
> July 12, 2005
>
> In an effort to keep its most profitable division from losing more
> ground to competitors, computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. on Monday
> introduced a line of printers featuring a new high-speed printing
> technology.
>
> The lineup includes what HP calls the world's fastest photo printer
> and is aimed at fending off challenges from hard-charging Dell Inc.
> and other rivals, including Lexmark International Inc.
>
> Palo Alto-based HP's share of the U.S. market for so-called all-in-one
> inkjet printers, a benchmark for success in the consumer market, fell
> to 35% in the first quarter from 47.4% a year earlier, according to
> research firm Gartner Inc.
>
> Most of the lost business went to Dell, whose share of the market
> skyrocketed to 15.6% from 1.5% during the same period. Although HP is
> still the world's No. 1 seller of printers, "it's important for HP to
> defend its market share," said Bruce Raabe, chief investment officer
> for Collins & Co. in San Francisco, which owns HP shares.
>
> "This is an industry that is always changing," Raabe said. "Because of
> that, it's important for HP to be aggressive about developing new
> enhancements to their printer line so existing customers will consider
> upgrading and new customers will consider coming to the brand.
>
> "That should go a long way to protecting their margins in the printer
> business."
>
> In HP's fiscal second quarter, which ended in April, operating profit
> for its imaging and printing division was $814 million, down 15.4%
> from the second quarter of 2004. Over the same span, the division's
> operating margin fell to 12.7% from 15.8%.
>
> HP's latest printers are based on new technology - developed over five
> years at a cost of $1.4 billion - that dramatically increases the
> number of ink-dispensing nozzles.
>
> The high-speed photo printer, for example, crams 3,900 nozzles into
> the print head, compared with 1,200 previously. The new model can
> produce 4-by-6-inch color prints in 14 seconds, four times faster than
> before, said Vyomesh Joshi, HP's executive vice president for imaging
> and printing.
>
> "Lexmark has no similar technology from a business model point of
> view," Joshi said. "Even others like Epson and Canon don't have
> similar technology, and it will take them three, four or five years to
> catch up."
>
> Dell doesn't make its printers. Lexmark builds Dell's inkjet printers,
> and Dell has partnered with other printer makers that manufacture
> laser and photo printers with the Dell brand.
>
> "We don't comment on moves by our competitors," said Dell spokesman
> Venancio Figueroa.
>
> HP's new printers and future product offerings should help the company
> raise its share of the global imaging and printing market to 17% from
> 11% by 2010, Joshi said.
>
> He said HP should be able to expand into new markets such as retail
> photo finishing, labeling and printing on packaging, signage and
> corporate brochure printing.
>
> "We can double our business in the next 10 years," he said.
>
> HP's stock slipped 15 cents to $24.13 on Monday. Analysts, although
> impressed with the new printer lineup, still want to see improving
> profitability in the company's printing division.
>
> "Product introductions are important, but the financial markets will
> continue to focus on the margins of HP's printing segment, which have
> been pressured the last few quarters," said Nick Nilarp, an analyst
> for Fitch Ratings in New York.
>
> Still, he noted, "HP is the leader in the market and has enough
> [research and development] and intellectual property to remain the
> leader for the next few years."
>
> HP also contends that its new printers produce photos for about 24
> cents apiece, 5 cents less than the industry average.
>
> Apple Computer Inc. prints and mails photos for 19 cents a copy, and
> so does Snapfish, HP's recently acquired online photo service. With a
> prepaid card, however, photos from Snapfish can cost as little as 10
> cents each. Hewlett-Packard has signed a deal with Walgreen Co. to
> offer customers of the largest U.S. drugstore chain access to
> Snapfish.
>
> HP also introduced three digital cameras that incorporate new features
> including the ability within the cameras to stitch together several
> photos in a panorama view, "video action prints" to extract
> publishable photos with resolution of about 1 megapixel from video
> clips taken by the camera and automatic saving of photos with three
> levels of backlight adjustment so users don't have to set the
> adjustment manually.
>
> Although Dell is encroaching on HP's printer territory, HP struck back
> at its rival Monday, announcing that it has hired Randall Mott from
> Dell to be its new chief information officer. Mott held the same job
> at Dell for the last five years.
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 14, 2005 4:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"george" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:

>1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>2) archival quality pigmented inks
>3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge

I read that one of the major points of these printers is that the ink
nozzles are in the printer, not the ink cartridge. Hopefully that
would decrease the price and increase the flexibility considerably.

Scott Peterson

--
Progress is the process by which the Internet
has evolved from smart people in front of
dumb terminals to dumb people in front of
smart terminals.

531/643
Related resources
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 14, 2005 8:02:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Scott Peterson wrote:
> "george" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>
>
>>1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>>2) archival quality pigmented inks
>>3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>
>
> I read that one of the major points of these printers is that the ink
> nozzles are in the printer, not the ink cartridge. Hopefully that
> would decrease the price and increase the flexibility considerably.

You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will be
willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet printer
manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily. IMO, if
Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their cartridges by
50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two years. Especially
if they blind-sided the competition with the strategy.
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 14, 2005 11:18:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> wrote:

>You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will be
>willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet printer
>manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily. IMO, if
>Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their cartridges by
>50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two years. Especially
>if they blind-sided the competition with the strategy.

Of course. Consumables have always been the life blood of the inkjet
printer market. But I think you should read the HP announcement
before commenting. If you had, you'd have seen that large part of
it was about the reduction in cost of prints and increases in the
print speed using their new technology.

<http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050711a.ht...;

` Regards,

Scott Peterson

--
Computer and car salesmen differ in that
the latter know when they are lying.

315/643
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 15, 2005 7:47:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Scott Peterson wrote:
> "george" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>> 2) archival quality pigmented inks
>> 3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>
> I read that one of the major points of these printers is that the ink
> nozzles are in the printer, not the ink cartridge. Hopefully that
> would decrease the price and increase the flexibility considerably.
>
> Scott Peterson
>
> --
> Progress is the process by which the Internet
> has evolved from smart people in front of
> dumb terminals to dumb people in front of
> smart terminals.
>
> 531/643

The printers achieve speed by using a lot of print nozzles. I seriously
doubt that the print nozzles could be anywhere BUT in the printer. Grin.
And I am quite sure the cartridge is in the printer as well.....

To move to a separate head and cartridge would be a serious change for
HP, so I doubt this, but anything can happen. I believe the figure I
read was 3900 nozzles/print head. That's a LOT of print head!


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 15, 2005 7:49:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> Scott Peterson wrote:
>> "george" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>>> 2) archival quality pigmented inks
>>> 3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>>
>>
>> I read that one of the major points of these printers is that the ink
>> nozzles are in the printer, not the ink cartridge. Hopefully that
>> would decrease the price and increase the flexibility considerably.
>
> You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will be
> willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet printer
> manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily. IMO, if
> Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their cartridges by
> 50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two years. Especially
> if they blind-sided the competition with the strategy.

Sure, they would, until they went out of the business due to lack of
profit! The low price of printers depends on sales of ink cartridges as
a high price. Same marketing principle as film cameras vs. digitals.
If they couldn't sell ink cartridges, the printer would cost a LOT more.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 16, 2005 1:48:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:

>
>To move to a separate head and cartridge would be a serious change for
>HP, so I doubt this, but anything can happen. I believe the figure I
>read was 3900 nozzles/print head. That's a LOT of print head!
>

Well, I included a pointer to the HP press release. Here's a quote
from a Forbes article on this. Note cartridge price is said to be
$9.99 and it specifically describes separate print head and ink
cartridge.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2005/07/12/hewlett-pac...

> It also means improved print quality. The new manufacturing process
>allows HP to fit 3,900 or more microscopic ink nozzles on a single print
> head, compared to 1,266 nozzles on past designs. That means the print
>head can move faster across a page, as well as turn out documents with
>more colors and higher image quality.
>
>Today, when a print cartridge runs dry, consumers just buy more ink,
>not an entire new print head. Refills of HP's new color Vivera ink cartridges
>will sell for $9.99, while older color ink cartridges can run $30 or more.

Scott Peterson

--
My idea of an agreeable person is a person who
agrees with me.
...... Benjamin Disraeali

557/643
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 17, 2005 8:29:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

george <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>Another marketing miss...
>It might have interested me if the "breakthrough" were any of the following:
>1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>2) archival quality pigmented inks
>3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>Too bad HP went for "how to rip through more overpriced, underperforming
>ink even faster"...guess they are desperately trying to regain the 15%
>market
>share they lost in the last year (50% down to 35%) but they could do much
>better than this "idea".

I don't intend buying another HP printer and it's simply because the
quality and speed aren't enough to justify the high prices for ink.
The "breakthrough" is just more of the usual B ark marketing stupidity.

><jj@unspameljefe.net> wrote in message
>news:g748d19pu9huu2nm3p7i0l23ueo8p31cld@4ax.com...
>> Faster 4x6's! More nozzles! Well, awright! :) 
>>
>> This seems aimed at the low end consumer market.
>>
>> JJ
>>
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp12jul12,0,21709...
>>
>> HP Rolls Out Fast Printers to Keep Lead
>> By Terril Yue Jones
>> Times Staff Writer
>>
>> July 12, 2005
>>
>> In an effort to keep its most profitable division from losing more
>> ground to competitors, computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. on Monday
>> introduced a line of printers featuring a new high-speed printing
>> technology.
>>
>> The lineup includes what HP calls the world's fastest photo printer
>> and is aimed at fending off challenges from hard-charging Dell Inc.
>> and other rivals, including Lexmark International Inc.
>>
>> Palo Alto-based HP's share of the U.S. market for so-called all-in-one
>> inkjet printers, a benchmark for success in the consumer market, fell
>> to 35% in the first quarter from 47.4% a year earlier, according to
>> research firm Gartner Inc.
>>
>> Most of the lost business went to Dell, whose share of the market
>> skyrocketed to 15.6% from 1.5% during the same period. Although HP is
>> still the world's No. 1 seller of printers, "it's important for HP to
>> defend its market share," said Bruce Raabe, chief investment officer
>> for Collins & Co. in San Francisco, which owns HP shares.
>>
>> "This is an industry that is always changing," Raabe said. "Because of
>> that, it's important for HP to be aggressive about developing new
>> enhancements to their printer line so existing customers will consider
>> upgrading and new customers will consider coming to the brand.
>>
>> "That should go a long way to protecting their margins in the printer
>> business."
>>
>> In HP's fiscal second quarter, which ended in April, operating profit
>> for its imaging and printing division was $814 million, down 15.4%
>> from the second quarter of 2004. Over the same span, the division's
>> operating margin fell to 12.7% from 15.8%.
>>
>> HP's latest printers are based on new technology - developed over five
>> years at a cost of $1.4 billion - that dramatically increases the
>> number of ink-dispensing nozzles.
>>
>> The high-speed photo printer, for example, crams 3,900 nozzles into
>> the print head, compared with 1,200 previously. The new model can
>> produce 4-by-6-inch color prints in 14 seconds, four times faster than
>> before, said Vyomesh Joshi, HP's executive vice president for imaging
>> and printing.
>>
>> "Lexmark has no similar technology from a business model point of
>> view," Joshi said. "Even others like Epson and Canon don't have
>> similar technology, and it will take them three, four or five years to
>> catch up."
>>
>> Dell doesn't make its printers. Lexmark builds Dell's inkjet printers,
>> and Dell has partnered with other printer makers that manufacture
>> laser and photo printers with the Dell brand.
>>
>> "We don't comment on moves by our competitors," said Dell spokesman
>> Venancio Figueroa.
>>
>> HP's new printers and future product offerings should help the company
>> raise its share of the global imaging and printing market to 17% from
>> 11% by 2010, Joshi said.
>>
>> He said HP should be able to expand into new markets such as retail
>> photo finishing, labeling and printing on packaging, signage and
>> corporate brochure printing.
>>
>> "We can double our business in the next 10 years," he said.
>>
>> HP's stock slipped 15 cents to $24.13 on Monday. Analysts, although
>> impressed with the new printer lineup, still want to see improving
>> profitability in the company's printing division.
>>
>> "Product introductions are important, but the financial markets will
>> continue to focus on the margins of HP's printing segment, which have
>> been pressured the last few quarters," said Nick Nilarp, an analyst
>> for Fitch Ratings in New York.
>>
>> Still, he noted, "HP is the leader in the market and has enough
>> [research and development] and intellectual property to remain the
>> leader for the next few years."
>>
>> HP also contends that its new printers produce photos for about 24
>> cents apiece, 5 cents less than the industry average.
>>
>> Apple Computer Inc. prints and mails photos for 19 cents a copy, and
>> so does Snapfish, HP's recently acquired online photo service. With a
>> prepaid card, however, photos from Snapfish can cost as little as 10
>> cents each. Hewlett-Packard has signed a deal with Walgreen Co. to
>> offer customers of the largest U.S. drugstore chain access to
>> Snapfish.
>>
>> HP also introduced three digital cameras that incorporate new features
>> including the ability within the cameras to stitch together several
>> photos in a panorama view, "video action prints" to extract
>> publishable photos with resolution of about 1 megapixel from video
>> clips taken by the camera and automatic saving of photos with three
>> levels of backlight adjustment so users don't have to set the
>> adjustment manually.
>>
>> Although Dell is encroaching on HP's printer territory, HP struck back
>> at its rival Monday, announcing that it has hired Randall Mott from
>> Dell to be its new chief information officer. Mott held the same job
>> at Dell for the last five years.
>
>


--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 17, 2005 2:23:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Scott Peterson wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will be
>>willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet printer
>>manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily. IMO, if
>>Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their cartridges by
>>50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two years. Especially
>>if they blind-sided the competition with the strategy.
>
>
> Of course. Consumables have always been the life blood of the inkjet
> printer market. But I think you should read the HP announcement
> before commenting. If you had, you'd have seen that large part of
> it was about the reduction in cost of prints and increases in the
> print speed using their new technology.
>
> <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050711a.ht...;

They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to the
market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the competition.
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 17, 2005 2:28:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>> Scott Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> "george" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>>>> 2) archival quality pigmented inks
>>>> 3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I read that one of the major points of these printers is that the ink
>>> nozzles are in the printer, not the ink cartridge. Hopefully that
>>> would decrease the price and increase the flexibility considerably.
>>
>>
>> You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will be
>> willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet
>> printer manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily.
>> IMO, if Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their
>> cartridges by 50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two
>> years. Especially if they blind-sided the competition with the strategy.
>
>
> Sure, they would, until they went out of the business due to lack of
> profit! The low price of printers depends on sales of ink cartridges as
> a high price. Same marketing principle as film cameras vs. digitals. If
> they couldn't sell ink cartridges, the printer would cost a LOT more.

They may find that their sales would triple and profits would increase
even though the price oftheir products were reduced. It happens in the
computer industry all the time. Personally, I don't mind the high ink
costs since I use third party inks. I get cheap printers and cheap ink. :) 
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 17, 2005 6:01:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ray Fischer wrote:
> george <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>
>>Another marketing miss...
>>It might have interested me if the "breakthrough" were any of the following:
>>1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>>2) archival quality pigmented inks
>>3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>>Too bad HP went for "how to rip through more overpriced, underperforming
>>ink even faster"...guess they are desperately trying to regain the 15%
>>market
>>share they lost in the last year (50% down to 35%) but they could do much
>>better than this "idea".
>
>
> I don't intend buying another HP printer and it's simply because the
> quality and speed aren't enough to justify the high prices for ink.
> The "breakthrough" is just more of the usual B ark marketing stupidity.

Their "breakthrough" is what Canon has been doing for years which is
individual ink tanks and semi-permanent heads with several thousand
nozzles to increase printing speed. I wonder if the cartridges for
these new printers will be chipped? HP can't have those third party ink
vendors taking a slice of their pie. ;) 

>><jj@unspameljefe.net> wrote in message
>>news:g748d19pu9huu2nm3p7i0l23ueo8p31cld@4ax.com...
>>
>>>Faster 4x6's! More nozzles! Well, awright! :) 
>>>
>>>This seems aimed at the low end consumer market.
>>>
>>>JJ
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp12jul12,0,21709...
>>>
>>>HP Rolls Out Fast Printers to Keep Lead
>>>By Terril Yue Jones
>>>Times Staff Writer
>>>
>>>July 12, 2005
>>>
>>>In an effort to keep its most profitable division from losing more
>>>ground to competitors, computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. on Monday
>>>introduced a line of printers featuring a new high-speed printing
>>>technology.
>>>
>>>The lineup includes what HP calls the world's fastest photo printer
>>>and is aimed at fending off challenges from hard-charging Dell Inc.
>>>and other rivals, including Lexmark International Inc.
>>>
>>>Palo Alto-based HP's share of the U.S. market for so-called all-in-one
>>>inkjet printers, a benchmark for success in the consumer market, fell
>>>to 35% in the first quarter from 47.4% a year earlier, according to
>>>research firm Gartner Inc.
>>>
>>>Most of the lost business went to Dell, whose share of the market
>>>skyrocketed to 15.6% from 1.5% during the same period. Although HP is
>>>still the world's No. 1 seller of printers, "it's important for HP to
>>>defend its market share," said Bruce Raabe, chief investment officer
>>>for Collins & Co. in San Francisco, which owns HP shares.
>>>
>>>"This is an industry that is always changing," Raabe said. "Because of
>>>that, it's important for HP to be aggressive about developing new
>>>enhancements to their printer line so existing customers will consider
>>>upgrading and new customers will consider coming to the brand.
>>>
>>>"That should go a long way to protecting their margins in the printer
>>>business."
>>>
>>>In HP's fiscal second quarter, which ended in April, operating profit
>>>for its imaging and printing division was $814 million, down 15.4%
>>>from the second quarter of 2004. Over the same span, the division's
>>>operating margin fell to 12.7% from 15.8%.
>>>
>>>HP's latest printers are based on new technology - developed over five
>>>years at a cost of $1.4 billion - that dramatically increases the
>>>number of ink-dispensing nozzles.
>>>
>>>The high-speed photo printer, for example, crams 3,900 nozzles into
>>>the print head, compared with 1,200 previously. The new model can
>>>produce 4-by-6-inch color prints in 14 seconds, four times faster than
>>>before, said Vyomesh Joshi, HP's executive vice president for imaging
>>>and printing.
>>>
>>>"Lexmark has no similar technology from a business model point of
>>>view," Joshi said. "Even others like Epson and Canon don't have
>>>similar technology, and it will take them three, four or five years to
>>>catch up."
>>>
>>>Dell doesn't make its printers. Lexmark builds Dell's inkjet printers,
>>>and Dell has partnered with other printer makers that manufacture
>>>laser and photo printers with the Dell brand.
>>>
>>>"We don't comment on moves by our competitors," said Dell spokesman
>>>Venancio Figueroa.
>>>
>>>HP's new printers and future product offerings should help the company
>>>raise its share of the global imaging and printing market to 17% from
>>>11% by 2010, Joshi said.
>>>
>>>He said HP should be able to expand into new markets such as retail
>>>photo finishing, labeling and printing on packaging, signage and
>>>corporate brochure printing.
>>>
>>>"We can double our business in the next 10 years," he said.
>>>
>>>HP's stock slipped 15 cents to $24.13 on Monday. Analysts, although
>>>impressed with the new printer lineup, still want to see improving
>>>profitability in the company's printing division.
>>>
>>>"Product introductions are important, but the financial markets will
>>>continue to focus on the margins of HP's printing segment, which have
>>>been pressured the last few quarters," said Nick Nilarp, an analyst
>>>for Fitch Ratings in New York.
>>>
>>>Still, he noted, "HP is the leader in the market and has enough
>>>[research and development] and intellectual property to remain the
>>>leader for the next few years."
>>>
>>>HP also contends that its new printers produce photos for about 24
>>>cents apiece, 5 cents less than the industry average.
>>>
>>>Apple Computer Inc. prints and mails photos for 19 cents a copy, and
>>>so does Snapfish, HP's recently acquired online photo service. With a
>>>prepaid card, however, photos from Snapfish can cost as little as 10
>>>cents each. Hewlett-Packard has signed a deal with Walgreen Co. to
>>>offer customers of the largest U.S. drugstore chain access to
>>>Snapfish.
>>>
>>>HP also introduced three digital cameras that incorporate new features
>>>including the ability within the cameras to stitch together several
>>>photos in a panorama view, "video action prints" to extract
>>>publishable photos with resolution of about 1 megapixel from video
>>>clips taken by the camera and automatic saving of photos with three
>>>levels of backlight adjustment so users don't have to set the
>>>adjustment manually.
>>>
>>>Although Dell is encroaching on HP's printer territory, HP struck back
>>>at its rival Monday, announcing that it has hired Randall Mott from
>>>Dell to be its new chief information officer. Mott held the same job
>>>at Dell for the last five years.
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 12:48:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> Scott Peterson wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will be
>>> willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet
>>> printer manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily.
>>> IMO, if Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their
>>> cartridges by 50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two
>>> years. Especially if they blind-sided the competition with the
>>> strategy.
>>
>>
>> Of course. Consumables have always been the life blood of the inkjet
>> printer market. But I think you should read the HP announcement
>> before commenting. If you had, you'd have seen that large part of
>> it was about the reduction in cost of prints and increases in the
>> print speed using their new technology.
>> <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050711a.ht...;
>
> They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
> pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
> number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to the
> market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the competition.

You know any other manufacturer with a 3900 nozzle print head? Should
make it faster than anything else out there.
For a while.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 2:35:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>> Scott Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will
>>>> be willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet
>>>> printer manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily.
>>>> IMO, if Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their
>>>> cartridges by 50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two
>>>> years. Especially if they blind-sided the competition with the
>>>> strategy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course. Consumables have always been the life blood of the inkjet
>>> printer market. But I think you should read the HP announcement
>>> before commenting. If you had, you'd have seen that large part of
>>> it was about the reduction in cost of prints and increases in the
>>> print speed using their new technology.
>>> <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050711a.ht...;
>>
>>
>> They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
>> pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
>> number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to the
>> market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the
>> competition.
>
>
> You know any other manufacturer with a 3900 nozzle print head? Should
> make it faster than anything else out there.
> For a while.

I know of none with 3,900 nozzles but here is one with 6,144 ;) 

http://tinyurl.com/4x23d
July 18, 2005 3:21:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Scott Peterson" <scottp4.removethistoreply@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:11diejhmsjreg9b@news.supernews.com...
> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>To move to a separate head and cartridge would be a serious change for
>>HP, so I doubt this, but anything can happen. I believe the figure I
>>read was 3900 nozzles/print head. That's a LOT of print head!
>>
>
> Well, I included a pointer to the HP press release. Here's a quote
> from a Forbes article on this. Note cartridge price is said to be
> $9.99 and it specifically describes separate print head and ink
> cartridge.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/technology/2005/07/12/hewlett-pac...
>
>
> Scott Peterson
>
> --
> My idea of an agreeable person is a person who
> agrees with me.
> ..... Benjamin Disraeali
>
> 557/643

The cost of the cartridge itself isn't really a good indicator (as I'm sure
you know)...what matters is how
much it costs you to print out your images and that depends on the cost of
the cartridge, the ink volume in
the cartridge, the amount of ink used in printing images, and YOUR
particular images (density, etc.). My
main printer in the house is an old HP 970CXi and I've seen lots of people
who thought Target sells the
color cartridges cheaper that Costco (technically, they DO, BUT the Target
cartridges contain 19ml of ink
vs. the Costco cartridges which contain 38ml of ink...both cartridges are
genuine HP and not reloaded, HP
just happens to make a 78A and a 78D cartridge which are totally
interchangeable but contain different
amounts of ink).

Now, I'm not sure if I'd like it if HP moved the print head to the printer
(from the cartridge) on newer
printers... The Epsons I've had do that and they've been a PITA, especially
if you print infrequently.
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 3:21:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"george" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:

>The cost of the cartridge itself isn't really a good indicator (as I'm sure
>you know)...what matters is how
>much it costs you to print out your images and that depends on the cost of
>the cartridge, the ink volume in
>the cartridge, the amount of ink used in printing images, and YOUR
>particular images (density, etc.). My
>main printer in the house is an old HP 970CXi and I've seen lots of people
>who thought Target sells the
>color cartridges cheaper that Costco (technically, they DO, BUT the Target
>cartridges contain 19ml of ink
>vs. the Costco cartridges which contain 38ml of ink...both cartridges are
>genuine HP and not reloaded, HP
>just happens to make a 78A and a 78D cartridge which are totally
>interchangeable but contain different
>amounts of ink).

George,

I posted a pointer to the HP press announcement. They gave some cost
comparisions, and their claim is that print costs are substantially
reduced.

I certainly will wait for independent tests, but that's the only
information so far.


Scott Peterson

--
I couldn't repair your brakes,
so I made your horn louder.

40/643
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 5:25:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Yeah, and those third party suppliers use sub quality ink as well. Not
matched to the paper performance and not tested to ensure long print head
life. Sure, go ahead and use them.



"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message
news:4oGdnWbWGpF2AUffRVn-vg@comcast.com...
> Ray Fischer wrote:
>> george <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Another marketing miss...
>>>It might have interested me if the "breakthrough" were any of the
>>>following:
>>>1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>>>2) archival quality pigmented inks
>>>3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>>>Too bad HP went for "how to rip through more overpriced, underperforming
>>>ink even faster"...guess they are desperately trying to regain the 15%
>>>market
>>>share they lost in the last year (50% down to 35%) but they could do much
>>>better than this "idea".
>>
>>
>> I don't intend buying another HP printer and it's simply because the
>> quality and speed aren't enough to justify the high prices for ink.
>> The "breakthrough" is just more of the usual B ark marketing stupidity.
>
> Their "breakthrough" is what Canon has been doing for years which is
> individual ink tanks and semi-permanent heads with several thousand
> nozzles to increase printing speed. I wonder if the cartridges for these
> new printers will be chipped? HP can't have those third party ink vendors
> taking a slice of their pie. ;) 
>
>>><jj@unspameljefe.net> wrote in message
>>>news:g748d19pu9huu2nm3p7i0l23ueo8p31cld@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>Faster 4x6's! More nozzles! Well, awright! :) 
>>>>
>>>>This seems aimed at the low end consumer market.
>>>>
>>>>JJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp12jul12,0,21709...
>>>>
>>>>HP Rolls Out Fast Printers to Keep Lead
>>>>By Terril Yue Jones
>>>>Times Staff Writer
>>>>
>>>>July 12, 2005
>>>>
>>>>In an effort to keep its most profitable division from losing more
>>>>ground to competitors, computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. on Monday
>>>>introduced a line of printers featuring a new high-speed printing
>>>>technology.
>>>>
>>>>The lineup includes what HP calls the world's fastest photo printer
>>>>and is aimed at fending off challenges from hard-charging Dell Inc.
>>>>and other rivals, including Lexmark International Inc.
>>>>
>>>>Palo Alto-based HP's share of the U.S. market for so-called all-in-one
>>>>inkjet printers, a benchmark for success in the consumer market, fell
>>>>to 35% in the first quarter from 47.4% a year earlier, according to
>>>>research firm Gartner Inc.
>>>>
>>>>Most of the lost business went to Dell, whose share of the market
>>>>skyrocketed to 15.6% from 1.5% during the same period. Although HP is
>>>>still the world's No. 1 seller of printers, "it's important for HP to
>>>>defend its market share," said Bruce Raabe, chief investment officer
>>>>for Collins & Co. in San Francisco, which owns HP shares.
>>>>
>>>>"This is an industry that is always changing," Raabe said. "Because of
>>>>that, it's important for HP to be aggressive about developing new
>>>>enhancements to their printer line so existing customers will consider
>>>>upgrading and new customers will consider coming to the brand.
>>>>
>>>>"That should go a long way to protecting their margins in the printer
>>>>business."
>>>>
>>>>In HP's fiscal second quarter, which ended in April, operating profit
>>>>for its imaging and printing division was $814 million, down 15.4%
>>>>from the second quarter of 2004. Over the same span, the division's
>>>>operating margin fell to 12.7% from 15.8%.
>>>>
>>>>HP's latest printers are based on new technology - developed over five
>>>>years at a cost of $1.4 billion - that dramatically increases the
>>>>number of ink-dispensing nozzles.
>>>>
>>>>The high-speed photo printer, for example, crams 3,900 nozzles into
>>>>the print head, compared with 1,200 previously. The new model can
>>>>produce 4-by-6-inch color prints in 14 seconds, four times faster than
>>>>before, said Vyomesh Joshi, HP's executive vice president for imaging
>>>>and printing.
>>>>
>>>>"Lexmark has no similar technology from a business model point of
>>>>view," Joshi said. "Even others like Epson and Canon don't have
>>>>similar technology, and it will take them three, four or five years to
>>>>catch up."
>>>>
>>>>Dell doesn't make its printers. Lexmark builds Dell's inkjet printers,
>>>>and Dell has partnered with other printer makers that manufacture
>>>>laser and photo printers with the Dell brand.
>>>>
>>>>"We don't comment on moves by our competitors," said Dell spokesman
>>>>Venancio Figueroa.
>>>>
>>>>HP's new printers and future product offerings should help the company
>>>>raise its share of the global imaging and printing market to 17% from
>>>>11% by 2010, Joshi said.
>>>>
>>>>He said HP should be able to expand into new markets such as retail
>>>>photo finishing, labeling and printing on packaging, signage and
>>>>corporate brochure printing.
>>>>
>>>>"We can double our business in the next 10 years," he said.
>>>>
>>>>HP's stock slipped 15 cents to $24.13 on Monday. Analysts, although
>>>>impressed with the new printer lineup, still want to see improving
>>>>profitability in the company's printing division.
>>>>
>>>>"Product introductions are important, but the financial markets will
>>>>continue to focus on the margins of HP's printing segment, which have
>>>>been pressured the last few quarters," said Nick Nilarp, an analyst
>>>>for Fitch Ratings in New York.
>>>>
>>>>Still, he noted, "HP is the leader in the market and has enough
>>>>[research and development] and intellectual property to remain the
>>>>leader for the next few years."
>>>>
>>>>HP also contends that its new printers produce photos for about 24
>>>>cents apiece, 5 cents less than the industry average.
>>>>
>>>>Apple Computer Inc. prints and mails photos for 19 cents a copy, and
>>>>so does Snapfish, HP's recently acquired online photo service. With a
>>>>prepaid card, however, photos from Snapfish can cost as little as 10
>>>>cents each. Hewlett-Packard has signed a deal with Walgreen Co. to
>>>>offer customers of the largest U.S. drugstore chain access to
>>>>Snapfish.
>>>>
>>>>HP also introduced three digital cameras that incorporate new features
>>>>including the ability within the cameras to stitch together several
>>>>photos in a panorama view, "video action prints" to extract
>>>>publishable photos with resolution of about 1 megapixel from video
>>>>clips taken by the camera and automatic saving of photos with three
>>>>levels of backlight adjustment so users don't have to set the
>>>>adjustment manually.
>>>>
>>>>Although Dell is encroaching on HP's printer territory, HP struck back
>>>>at its rival Monday, announcing that it has hired Randall Mott from
>>>>Dell to be its new chief information officer. Mott held the same job
>>>>at Dell for the last five years.
>>>
>>>
>>
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 5:25:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I've used them for two years without any problems. I've saved at least
$1,000 in printing costs. I get 95% of the quality of OEM ink for less
than 20% of the cost. Not a bad trade-off, IMHO. For what I save in
ink every six months I could buy the latest and greatest printer. I
have never had to by a printer yet due to failure of the head or any
other component. Maybe I'm lucky or maybe third party inks aren't that
bad. As for print longevity, I don't sell prints and really don't care
if they last 5 years or 500 years. I can alway print another one when
necessary. So far I have not had to reprint a single photo due to
fading but then again I don't leave them lying on the dash of my truck.

I'll grant you that some third party suppliers use poor ink but there
are many that do not. Buying ink is like buying anything else, do your
homework before spending your money and you'll likely be satisfied.

By all means please continue to buy OEM ink if it suits you. It keeps
the cost of inkjet printers low. ;) 

Steve m... wrote:
> Yeah, and those third party suppliers use sub quality ink as well. Not
> matched to the paper performance and not tested to ensure long print head
> life. Sure, go ahead and use them.
>
>
>
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:4oGdnWbWGpF2AUffRVn-vg@comcast.com...
>
>>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>george <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Another marketing miss...
>>>>It might have interested me if the "breakthrough" were any of the
>>>>following:
>>>>1) smudge-free, water resistant inks
>>>>2) archival quality pigmented inks
>>>>3) cheaper ink w/o expiration "chips" in the cartridge
>>>>Too bad HP went for "how to rip through more overpriced, underperforming
>>>>ink even faster"...guess they are desperately trying to regain the 15%
>>>>market
>>>>share they lost in the last year (50% down to 35%) but they could do much
>>>>better than this "idea".
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't intend buying another HP printer and it's simply because the
>>>quality and speed aren't enough to justify the high prices for ink.
>>>The "breakthrough" is just more of the usual B ark marketing stupidity.
>>
>>Their "breakthrough" is what Canon has been doing for years which is
>>individual ink tanks and semi-permanent heads with several thousand
>>nozzles to increase printing speed. I wonder if the cartridges for these
>>new printers will be chipped? HP can't have those third party ink vendors
>>taking a slice of their pie. ;) 
>>
>>
>>>><jj@unspameljefe.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:g748d19pu9huu2nm3p7i0l23ueo8p31cld@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Faster 4x6's! More nozzles! Well, awright! :) 
>>>>>
>>>>>This seems aimed at the low end consumer market.
>>>>>
>>>>>JJ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp12jul12,0,21709...
>>>>>
>>>>>HP Rolls Out Fast Printers to Keep Lead
>>>>>By Terril Yue Jones
>>>>>Times Staff Writer
>>>>>
>>>>>July 12, 2005
>>>>>
>>>>>In an effort to keep its most profitable division from losing more
>>>>>ground to competitors, computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. on Monday
>>>>>introduced a line of printers featuring a new high-speed printing
>>>>>technology.
>>>>>
>>>>>The lineup includes what HP calls the world's fastest photo printer
>>>>>and is aimed at fending off challenges from hard-charging Dell Inc.
>>>>>and other rivals, including Lexmark International Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>Palo Alto-based HP's share of the U.S. market for so-called all-in-one
>>>>>inkjet printers, a benchmark for success in the consumer market, fell
>>>>>to 35% in the first quarter from 47.4% a year earlier, according to
>>>>>research firm Gartner Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>Most of the lost business went to Dell, whose share of the market
>>>>>skyrocketed to 15.6% from 1.5% during the same period. Although HP is
>>>>>still the world's No. 1 seller of printers, "it's important for HP to
>>>>>defend its market share," said Bruce Raabe, chief investment officer
>>>>>for Collins & Co. in San Francisco, which owns HP shares.
>>>>>
>>>>>"This is an industry that is always changing," Raabe said. "Because of
>>>>>that, it's important for HP to be aggressive about developing new
>>>>>enhancements to their printer line so existing customers will consider
>>>>>upgrading and new customers will consider coming to the brand.
>>>>>
>>>>>"That should go a long way to protecting their margins in the printer
>>>>>business."
>>>>>
>>>>>In HP's fiscal second quarter, which ended in April, operating profit
>>>>>for its imaging and printing division was $814 million, down 15.4%
>>>>
>>>>>from the second quarter of 2004. Over the same span, the division's
>>>>
>>>>>operating margin fell to 12.7% from 15.8%.
>>>>>
>>>>>HP's latest printers are based on new technology - developed over five
>>>>>years at a cost of $1.4 billion - that dramatically increases the
>>>>>number of ink-dispensing nozzles.
>>>>>
>>>>>The high-speed photo printer, for example, crams 3,900 nozzles into
>>>>>the print head, compared with 1,200 previously. The new model can
>>>>>produce 4-by-6-inch color prints in 14 seconds, four times faster than
>>>>>before, said Vyomesh Joshi, HP's executive vice president for imaging
>>>>>and printing.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Lexmark has no similar technology from a business model point of
>>>>>view," Joshi said. "Even others like Epson and Canon don't have
>>>>>similar technology, and it will take them three, four or five years to
>>>>>catch up."
>>>>>
>>>>>Dell doesn't make its printers. Lexmark builds Dell's inkjet printers,
>>>>>and Dell has partnered with other printer makers that manufacture
>>>>>laser and photo printers with the Dell brand.
>>>>>
>>>>>"We don't comment on moves by our competitors," said Dell spokesman
>>>>>Venancio Figueroa.
>>>>>
>>>>>HP's new printers and future product offerings should help the company
>>>>>raise its share of the global imaging and printing market to 17% from
>>>>>11% by 2010, Joshi said.
>>>>>
>>>>>He said HP should be able to expand into new markets such as retail
>>>>>photo finishing, labeling and printing on packaging, signage and
>>>>>corporate brochure printing.
>>>>>
>>>>>"We can double our business in the next 10 years," he said.
>>>>>
>>>>>HP's stock slipped 15 cents to $24.13 on Monday. Analysts, although
>>>>>impressed with the new printer lineup, still want to see improving
>>>>>profitability in the company's printing division.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Product introductions are important, but the financial markets will
>>>>>continue to focus on the margins of HP's printing segment, which have
>>>>>been pressured the last few quarters," said Nick Nilarp, an analyst
>>>>>for Fitch Ratings in New York.
>>>>>
>>>>>Still, he noted, "HP is the leader in the market and has enough
>>>>>[research and development] and intellectual property to remain the
>>>>>leader for the next few years."
>>>>>
>>>>>HP also contends that its new printers produce photos for about 24
>>>>>cents apiece, 5 cents less than the industry average.
>>>>>
>>>>>Apple Computer Inc. prints and mails photos for 19 cents a copy, and
>>>>>so does Snapfish, HP's recently acquired online photo service. With a
>>>>>prepaid card, however, photos from Snapfish can cost as little as 10
>>>>>cents each. Hewlett-Packard has signed a deal with Walgreen Co. to
>>>>>offer customers of the largest U.S. drugstore chain access to
>>>>>Snapfish.
>>>>>
>>>>>HP also introduced three digital cameras that incorporate new features
>>>>>including the ability within the cameras to stitch together several
>>>>>photos in a panorama view, "video action prints" to extract
>>>>>publishable photos with resolution of about 1 megapixel from video
>>>>>clips taken by the camera and automatic saving of photos with three
>>>>>levels of backlight adjustment so users don't have to set the
>>>>>adjustment manually.
>>>>>
>>>>>Although Dell is encroaching on HP's printer territory, HP struck back
>>>>>at its rival Monday, announcing that it has hired Randall Mott from
>>>>>Dell to be its new chief information officer. Mott held the same job
>>>>>at Dell for the last five years.
>>>>
>>>>
>
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 8:14:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>>
>>> Scott Peterson wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will
>>>>> be willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the inkjet
>>>>> printer manufacturers and they won't give up those profits easily.
>>>>> IMO, if Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price of their
>>>>> cartridges by 50% they would own the inkjet printer market in two
>>>>> years. Especially if they blind-sided the competition with the
>>>>> strategy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course. Consumables have always been the life blood of the inkjet
>>>> printer market. But I think you should read the HP announcement
>>>> before commenting. If you had, you'd have seen that large part of
>>>> it was about the reduction in cost of prints and increases in the
>>>> print speed using their new technology.
>>>> <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050711a.ht...;
>>>
>>>
>>> They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
>>> pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
>>> number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to
>>> the market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the
>>> competition.
>>
>>
>> You know any other manufacturer with a 3900 nozzle print head? Should
>> make it faster than anything else out there.
>> For a while.
>
> I know of none with 3,900 nozzles but here is one with 6,144 ;) 
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4x23d
Nice, but about twice the HP announced price. Technology marches on!


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 18, 2005 11:00:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott Peterson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can bet they intend to charge as much for ink as the user will
>>>>>> be willing to pay. Selling ink is the real cash cow for the
>>>>>> inkjet printer manufacturers and they won't give up those profits
>>>>>> easily. IMO, if Canon would use pigmented ink and cut the price
>>>>>> of their cartridges by 50% they would own the inkjet printer
>>>>>> market in two years. Especially if they blind-sided the
>>>>>> competition with the strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course. Consumables have always been the life blood of the inkjet
>>>>> printer market. But I think you should read the HP announcement
>>>>> before commenting. If you had, you'd have seen that large part of
>>>>> it was about the reduction in cost of prints and increases in the
>>>>> print speed using their new technology.
>>>>> <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050711a.ht...;
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
>>>> pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
>>>> number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to
>>>> the market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the
>>>> competition.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You know any other manufacturer with a 3900 nozzle print head?
>>> Should make it faster than anything else out there.
>>> For a while.
>>
>>
>> I know of none with 3,900 nozzles but here is one with 6,144 ;) 
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/4x23d
>
> Nice, but about twice the HP announced price. Technology marches on!

True but I doubt Canon will be setting still on designing their next
generation of printers. Either way, we all win!
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 20, 2005 6:26:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> writes:

> They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
> pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
> number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to
> the market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the
> competition.

It is not new for hp, it is just that now they are doing it for
lower market printers. The big wide formats have been this way for
ages.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
Anonymous
a b α HP
July 20, 2005 8:06:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <nospam@ourhouse.com> writes:
>
>
>>They will still charge as much for ink as the consumer is willing to
>>pay. Looks like they are following Canon's model of using a large
>>number of nozzles and individual ink tanks. Nothing really new to
>>the market. Looks more to me like HP is just catching up with the
>>competition.
>
>
> It is not new for hp, it is just that now they are doing it for
> lower market printers. The big wide formats have been this way for
> ages.

True. My guess is they are finding that using more advanced print heads
on disposable cartridges isn't cost effective or competitive. Looks
like they are moving towards mimicking Canon's model in order to up the
print speed. That being individual ink tanks and mega-nozzle print
heads. I think it's a wise move on their part.
July 22, 2005 4:38:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Scott Peterson" <scottp4.removethistoreply@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:11dmibfqte2n2d3@news.supernews.com...
>
> George,
>
> I posted a pointer to the HP press announcement. They gave some cost
> comparisions, and their claim is that print costs are substantially
> reduced.
>
> I certainly will wait for independent tests, but that's the only
> information so far.
>
>
> Scott Peterson
>
> --
> I couldn't repair your brakes,
> so I made your horn louder.
>
> 40/643

Scott,

Yes, I noticed that in the announcement. What I don't know is WHAT they are
comparing to. Current printers or older printers...my belief is that
printing costs have escalated from what I pay to print on my 970CXi. (You
certainly buy far less ink for quite a few more dollars on current printers
vs. my old one so the printer would have to be quite miserly with ink to
make the per print cost less.)

George
!