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Nvidia 680GTX vs AMD HD 7970 max resolution (4K 3D?)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 26, 2012 1:13:46 AM

Hello,
I am looking for a top notch card, for media not gaming. I want something "future proof" (read 4K 3D projector in about 2-3 years)... I am very impressed by nVidia 680GTX but their max resolution stops @ 2560X1600, way bellow 4096X2160 from AMD HD7970. I am aware of the AMD driver limitations and had better experiences with nVidia drivers. That being said I am looking for the most powerful and future proof hardware out there. Please do not reply with "you don't need all that power for media", media developes too and in a few years the "super gaming cards" of the present will barely keep up with the "new media formats"... I am open to suggestions: wait for other nVidia cards or go for the AMD HD7970, etc...
a c 1362 U Graphics card
a c 330 À AMD
a c 155 Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 1:27:49 AM

By that time these cards will be obsolete and new cards with new media features that you got to have on the market!
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 4:12:21 AM

@OP both cards support 4K resolution but the market is not ready yet.
Quote:
Based on the 28nm "Kepler" architecture, the ASUS GTX 680 delivers unmitigated DirectX® 11 performance and full readiness for the next phase of PC entertainment, which will take gamers and multimedia consumers beyond full HD. Due to its ample processing power, the GTX 680 can handle ultra HD or 4K resolutions in games and video, extending visual finesse and quality beyond current standards. At the same time, 28nm GPU fabrication means reduced power consumption, leading to a modest 195W TDP under load. With its 1536 CUDA cores, the GTX 680 offers enhanced general processing GPU output to speed up overall system performance. It ships with a 256-bit memory interface and 2GB of GDDR5 clocked at 6008MHz actual. Dynamic NVIDIA® GPU Boost modulation means the card can alternate between the base 1006MHz and the sped-up 1058MHz mode when extra frames per second are needed in the most demanding games. This flexible design is further improved upon by ASUS through the presence of exclusive GPU Tweak.
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March 26, 2012 4:44:42 AM

Yeah I get it, but my first good card, XFX7800GTX 256MB OC from 2005 October could read perfectly any current BluRay or 1080p file without a hitch (no HD sound processing, no HDCP, but the processing power is there)... So I am just trying to find out what powerful hardware I should go for. I tend to think that the HD7970 is the way to go even if nVidia has better drivers and more experience with 3D. The larger 384 bit interface, the above 4K resolution and the 3 gigs of memory should be enough for anything the media can through at it for the next 4-5 years... Maybe I'll wait a month or two to see the price drop...
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March 26, 2012 6:03:42 AM

ilysaml said:
@OP both cards support 4K resolution but the market is not ready yet.
Quote:
Based on the 28nm "Kepler" architecture, the ASUS GTX 680 delivers unmitigated DirectX® 11 performance and full readiness for the next phase of PC entertainment, which will take gamers and multimedia consumers beyond full HD. Due to its ample processing power, the GTX 680 can handle ultra HD or 4K resolutions in games and video, extending visual finesse and quality beyond current standards. At the same time, 28nm GPU fabrication means reduced power consumption, leading to a modest 195W TDP under load. With its 1536 CUDA cores, the GTX 680 offers enhanced general processing GPU output to speed up overall system performance. It ships with a 256-bit memory interface and 2GB of GDDR5 clocked at 6008MHz actual. Dynamic NVIDIA® GPU Boost modulation means the card can alternate between the base 1006MHz and the sped-up 1058MHz mode when extra frames per second are needed in the most demanding games. This flexible design is further improved upon by ASUS through the presence of exclusive GPU Tweak.


But the max output resolution listed on every site I looked is 2560X1600 for the 680GTX...?!??!?!?!?!??! Which is it, in the end??? I know the market is not ready that's my point, I am trying to stay ahead a little bit as much as I can...
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a c 79 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 7:32:04 AM

dantotancello said:
But the max output resolution listed on every site I looked is 2560X1600 for the 680GTX...?!??!?!?!?!??! Which is it, in the end??? I know the market is not ready that's my point, I am trying to stay ahead a little bit as much as I can...

different ports have different max res and refreshrate.
most cards support up to 2560x1600 @60 hz refrest rate but that doesn't mean that they can't drive 2 1080p displays at 60hz e.g. eyefinity. for example, dual link dvi can support up to 2560x1600@60 hz, hdmi supports that res with 75 hz refresh rate.
hdmi 1.4 supports 4k resolutions -
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 12:00:13 PM

@danto
With the combined clocks and outputs you can reach the 5760x1080 resolution, what's meant by the 4K resolution is that a single output can reach that limit but the market isn't ready for such a high resolution.

As De5 said, HDMI 1.4a or DP 1.2 can support up to such resolution.
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March 26, 2012 12:45:42 PM

ilysaml said:
@danto
With the combined clocks and outputs you can reach the 5760x1080 resolution, what's meant by the 4K resolution is that a single output can reach that limit but the market isn't ready for such a high resolution.

As De5 said, HDMI 1.4a or DP 1.2 can support up to such resolution.


OK, What I meant is: a single HDMI output capable of 4K in 3D. I know that HDMI 1.4 and DP 1.2 are capable of 4K but the max output limit per single port (for all ports, HDMI, DP, and DL-DVI) listed on nVidia 680GTX is 2560X1600. On AMD HD7970 the max res per single output is listed for all HDMI 1.4 and DP 1.2 as 4096X2160 and the DL-DVI @ 2560X1600. I don't care about gaming and multiple displays, my only display is a 60" Pioneer Elite PRO141FD which functions as my TV and PC monitor. The next thing in my set up would be a projector, hopefully with 4K processor in about two, three years.
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a c 291 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 12:56:13 PM

dantotancello said:
OK, What I meant is: a single HDMI output capable of 4K in 3D. I know that HDMI 1.4 and DP 1.2 are capable of 4K but the max output limit per single port (for all ports, HDMI, DP, and DL-DVI) listed on nVidia 680GTX is 2560X1600. On AMD HD7970 the max res per single output is listed for all HDMI 1.4 and DP 1.2 as 4096X2160 and the DL-DVI @ 2560X1600. I don't care about gaming and multiple displays, my only display is a 60" Pioneer Elite PRO141FD which functions as my TV and PC monitor. The next thing in my set up would be a projector, hopefully with 4K processor in about two, three years.


The real limit comes from connectors.HDMI 1.4a and D-Link DVI don't support 4k resolution @60Hz, and only Display port can do it. I personally think maximum resolution has nothing to do with the graphics card (as long as it has enough muscle, and GTX 680 definitely does for 4k).
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 1:15:05 PM

@OP
They list such resolutions cause it's the primary focused resolutions that available in all markets, DVI Dual Link support 3K resolutions, even though they don't list that cause they know that rare hardware supports it.
Same with HDMI 1.4a and DP 1.2 they support 4K resolutions but it's not implemented yet.

Wikipedia 4K projectors and monitors and you'll see ridiculously expensive prices!!!
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March 26, 2012 3:36:43 PM

OK Guys,
So: HDMI 1.4 supports 4K 3840X2160 @ 24,25 and 30HZ and 4K 4096 X2160 @ 24HZ.
Next: 4K displays and projectors are already available, just completely out of my budget and impractical at this time, altough multiplying pixels by four is a decent and probably the easiest way to upconvert a video stream. Panasonic had a 150" 4K display since 2008 (for about $100K, it could upconvert to 4K a 1080p stream by itself or could process 4 Hdmi inputs dividing the screen into four 1080p images), the place where I worked at the time was selling it... ChristieDigital projectors also do 4096X2160... Sharp had a 4K professional 55 incher since 2006... LG is coming out with an 84" 4K display this year...
Last: if I understand you correctly you are saying that even if nVidia lists a max resolution for a certain digital output I can go above that??? That I find hard to believe.
If nVidia would be capable of 4K over any output they would list it immediately in the fine specs the same way AMD touts their 4K capabilities over HDMI and Display Port.
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a c 79 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
March 26, 2012 3:59:00 PM

amd lists 4k playback support here:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/79...
nvidia is not so clear. they state these:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-surround-system-...
they state that all kepler gpus are 4k capable. from the kepler whitepaper
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt...
(it's a pdf file, available on geforce.com)
Quote:
New Display/Video Engine
All Kepler GPUs feature an all-new display engine that has been tailored for next-generation 4k and
3GHz HDMI displays, multi-display gaming with NVIDIA Surround, multi-stream audio, and enhanced
video transcoding.
GeForce GTX 680’s display engine is capable of driving up to four displays simultaneously, and provides
native Surround support from one GeForce GTX 680 card

i assume that they want to hold off till 4k displays become mainstream.
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March 26, 2012 4:54:11 PM

Now we're getting somewhere, Thank You guys for finding these links for me.
I don't want to be a party pooper but, I think decoding 4K and outputing 4K are two different things. And from my experience when a manufacturer lists output capabilities they don't fool around. Hopefully I am wrong and the 680GTX can output 4K, but before I see it in writing I won't pull the trigger on it, even if from the processing point of view I think nVidia is clearly superior. I also hope that the HD7970 will go down in price in a few weeks... but I would really prefer to buy nVidia :) ))
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a b U Graphics card
March 26, 2012 5:40:50 PM

dantotancello said:
But the max output resolution listed on every site I looked is 2560X1600 for the 680GTX...?!??!?!?!?!??! Which is it, in the end??? I know the market is not ready that's my point, I am trying to stay ahead a little bit as much as I can...



2560x1600 is the listed maximum resolution for all cards. Why? Because there is no single monitor higher than this resolution. It's as simple as that... Take a GTX 680 and it's listed max resolution is 2560x1600 doesn't mean it won't drive 5760x1080. There's just no single monitor above 2560x1600...
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March 26, 2012 7:01:58 PM

RussK1 said:
2560x1600 is the listed maximum resolution for all cards. Why? Because there is no single monitor higher than this resolution. It's as simple as that... Take a GTX 680 and it's listed max resolution is 2560x1600 doesn't mean it won't drive 5760x1080. There's just no single monitor above 2560x1600...


HD 7970 has 4096X2160 as max res for HDMI and Dispay Port. and I know 680GTX can drive 5760X1080 but this is just an extended 1080p res. Anyway I will waita little to see what happens with this stuff, and from what I understand nVidia still has bigger and better things coming this year...
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 27, 2012 1:12:40 AM

dantotancello said:
HD 7970 has 4096X2160 as max res for HDMI and Dispay Port. and I know 680GTX can drive 5760X1080 but this is just an extended 1080p res. Anyway I will waita little to see what happens with this stuff, and from what I understand nVidia still has bigger and better things coming this year...

To simplify, no need to argue. Every Output is standard in each piece of hardware, HDMI 1.4 in HD 7970 is the same there on GTX 680 the major difference is the Physical GPU/CPU that's capable of dealing with such massive No.s of pixels and resolution.
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March 27, 2012 1:37:19 AM

ilysaml said:
To simplify, no need to argue. Every Output is standard in each piece of hardware, HDMI 1.4 in HD 7970 is the same there on GTX 680 the major difference is the Physical GPU/CPU that's capable of dealing with such massive No.s of pixels and resolution.


What I meant in my previous post was that 680GTX outputs the 5760X1080 over 4 digital outputs and that the digital outputs are capped at 2560X1600, there is no reason in this world that they would list a lower resolution fi it can go higher (bragging points are gold for this kind of device...). It's not the first time nVidia would cap an output at a lower resolution, for whatever reason they might have... I am willing to bet that 680GTX is locked at the listed number of pixels listed on their site. HDMI 1.4's output is not equal across all devices graphic cards or all electronic devices equiped with it, each manufacturer decides what they can garanty as stabile output or what they can't.
But my point for opening this thread was to hear opinions for and against one or the other cards... Untill now all I heard is that 680GTX can do 4K over HDMI (sorry but even if it can it won't...). Can anybody give me their impressions with HD7970?
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June 24, 2012 4:43:57 AM

dantotancello said:
Hello,
I am looking for a top notch card, for media not gaming. I want something "future proof" (read 4K 3D projector in about 2-3 years)... I am very impressed by nVidia 680GTX but their max resolution stops @ 2560X1600, way bellow 4096X2160 from AMD HD7970. I am aware of the AMD driver limitations and had better experiences with nVidia drivers. That being said I am looking for the most powerful and future proof hardware out there. Please do not reply with "you don't need all that power for media", media developes too and in a few years the "super gaming cards" of the present will barely keep up with the "new media formats"... I am open to suggestions: wait for other nVidia cards or go for the AMD HD7970, etc...


The simple and easy answer:

It is way too early to attempt to future proof your media PC to support 4K resolutions with a graphics card alone. If your not looking at doing any gaming, then you may as well worry about building a solid 'future proof' PCs core components (ie Motherboard and CPU.

Pick a Motherboard that supports the new Ivy Bridge and PCIe 3.0. That way in the 2-3 years time, when more powerful GPUs are available, your computer has the bandwidth available to push the most of current GPUs out at market.

Its more important that your motherboard has the support most support for any chance of future-proofing.

What is your PC specs?

By the time 4k becomes a standard, you will already start seeing new hardware that makes current hardware nonupgradeable. For example, Intels next-gen CPU, Haswell is expected to use a new socket making it imcompatible with current Socket 1155 or Socket2011.

PCIe 4 might be closer to adoption then too, and graphic cards may start supporting 4k and 8k resolutions.


If your haven't future-proofed to a newer motherboard, then you should waste money now investing in a 680/7970.
If you have a new gen motherboard, dont waste your money on a GPU this gen, wait to upgrade to the high end cards when 4k resolutions are common.
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a b U Graphics card
June 24, 2012 5:46:56 AM
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June 24, 2012 8:05:27 AM

walter87 said:
The simple and easy answer:

It is way too early to attempt to future proof your media PC to support 4K resolutions with a graphics card alone. If your not looking at doing any gaming, then you may as well worry about building a solid 'future proof' PCs core components (ie Motherboard and CPU.

Pick a Motherboard that supports the new Ivy Bridge and PCIe 3.0. That way in the 2-3 years time, when more powerful GPUs are available, your computer has the bandwidth available to push the most of current GPUs out at market.

Its more important that your motherboard has the support most support for any chance of future-proofing.

What is your PC specs?

By the time 4k becomes a standard, you will already start seeing new hardware that makes current hardware nonupgradeable. For example, Intels next-gen CPU, Haswell is expected to use a new socket making it imcompatible with current Socket 1155 or Socket2011.

PCIe 4 might be closer to adoption then too, and graphic cards may start supporting 4k and 8k resolutions.


If your haven't future-proofed to a newer motherboard, then you should waste money now investing in a 680/7970.
If you have a new gen motherboard, dont waste your money on a GPU this gen, wait to upgrade to the high end cards when 4k resolutions are common.





HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
My PC is really not very new gen :) ))... it's a professional workstation with TYAN S2895 MoBo, two dual core 280 Opterons "Italy", dual LAN, Anthec 550, blu ray drive, 6 Gb of memory, etc... The whole thing dates back to 2005 October. The point was to update my card first and then slowly get to the MoBo and CPU/s, Memory and HDD/SSD... But for now, the only thing that seems due for a revamp is the GPU. The beast works super well, and will turn 7 in October. The point was to find something very 3D and 4K oriented... sadly it seems to be too early for that.. so I will wait for next years GPUs or go with the AMD 7970 when it gets under $400 :) )))))))))))))))).
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June 24, 2012 8:21:37 AM

Best answer selected by dantotancello.
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a b U Graphics card
June 24, 2012 10:59:44 AM

dantotancello said:
Thank you for the link...
As I suspected nVidia doesn't treat their 4K in media apps as one screen (not yet anyway). As I am interested in media apps, not games, the answer for me, right now, is AMD7970.


You're welcome...

I learned something as well as I didn't know you can use two connections to a single monitor. Now my options have changed for me and 4k is looking appealing to me as well. :) 
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October 26, 2012 6:27:55 AM

RussK1 said:
You're welcome...

I learned something as well as I didn't know you can use two connections to a single monitor. Now my options have changed for me and 4k is looking appealing to me as well. :) 


FYI: Using an AMD7970 connected to a Sony 4K monitor (3840x2160p24) via HDMI 1.4a, you will be able to play 4K videos in a very dissent way. A couple of days ago we play a couple of videos using H.264 High Profile 10bit 4:2:2. The first one was encoded using mainconcepts at 60Mbps and it show up some noticeable frame droppings (Maybe the encoding, maybe the complexity of Cabac at 60Mbps) and one using eyeIO at 26Mbps which show up flawless quality.

Personally I'm waiting for nVidia to show some progress, I know that they HW is is better than the AMD on terms of media playback. I hope they can developed a card that features 2 mini Displayports + HDMI 1.4a (like the ATI card) and I hope they can do this card for the MacPro. (I know maybe I'm asking for too much).
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December 13, 2012 4:27:23 PM

The HDMI ratification board is supposed to be coming out with v1.5 chipsets that will address UHD (2160p) and true theatrical 4k resolutions, 4k 3D, Deep Color 10 and 12 bit gamuts, and high frame rates (HFR). This will be set in stone in 2013, just in time for the roll out of consumer based 4k displays.

Display Port's specs. organization will probably follow suit.

There is also the little thing called the MPEG H.265 consumer codec, which was just drafted and will finalized in early '13. This new "hyper efficient" codec, capable of 4k and 8k video compression, will take more CPU horsepower than ever before to decode and encode (the latter for content distribution on 4k physical media and for broadcasting and streaming purposes) properly.

I wouldn't want to plunk money down on a 4k capable video board until the specs. are ironed out. And I'm unsure as to which CPU's will be MPEG-5 capable.
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