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I7 3770k for gaming over i7 3820?

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September 18, 2012 12:59:56 PM

Hey guys, i was going to get an i7 3820 for my gaming rig but i realised it was kind of a waste of money for gaming. So i decided to go with a ivb cpu. Is the i7 3770k any good for gaming ( I'll put system specs at the bottom ) And is the asrock z77 extreme 6 good?
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Cpu: I7 3770k
Mobo: Asrock z77 extreme 6
Gpu: Gigabyte gtx 670 windforce 3x OC
Cooling: Corsair H100
HDD: WD caviar black 1TB
OPD: Asus dvd/rw 24x
Case: coolermaster Haf-x nvidia edition
Psu: Hx-750 silver certified
Ram: Corsair vengeance 1600mhz 16gb dual channel (4x4gb)

More about : 3770k gaming 3820

a c 78 à CPUs
September 18, 2012 1:59:50 PM

The 3770k is great for gaming but still overkill since the hyperthreading really doesn't get used by games.

An ivy i5 at the same clock speed would generally perform just as well and cost less.
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September 18, 2012 2:20:09 PM

Go with the 3570k if your primary goal is gaming.
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September 18, 2012 2:37:01 PM

It depends on what you mean by "good for gaming".

The 3570k is cheaper than both of those by a pretty solid margin and pretty much everybody considers those to be excellent when gaming. I will use that as a baseline.

Going from 3570k to 3770k you get only a couple things, primarily:
1) 0.1 GHZ higher base clock speed.
2) 2 MBs of L3 Cache ( 6 --> 8 )
3) Hyper Threading

If you are only looking at gaming, you can pretty much write off #3. Almost no games support more than 4 cores anyway and almost no games support hyper threading anyway even if they did support more than 4 cores.

#1 is also kinda worthless because the 3570k can be OCd to whatever the 3770k can be OCd to. This would only be important to someone if they didn't want to bother with even a 0.1 OC.

#2 is the bigger thing, because the effect of this can't possibly be emulated on the 3570k. The 3770k will always have the advantage of 2 MBs and its impossible to add the other 2 to the 3570k in any way.

How much performance difference is that going to actually give you when you spend your extra $80ish to get the other 2 MBs of L3 cache? Some benchmarks are available here:

http://tinyurl.com/923d8x2

If you look through there, the 3770k usually has a low single digits FPS lead. In only one of those games does the 3770k's advantage matter even one iota. That is Starcraft 2. Everything above 60 FPS is worthless, because the human eye can't see faster than 60 FPS (delivered smoothly, anyway).

Starcraft 2 goes from 52.7 to 55.7 when the processor is changed from 3570k to 3770k, which is going to be noticeable to some low single digits percent of people. However, this same performance gain in the game could be had with just a small OC on the 3570k. Bringing it up to somewhere in the 3.8 - 4.0 range is very doable even on stock cooling and that should be enough to get the extra 3 FPS to close the gap.

The 3770k could be OCd the same way, but both processors would soon get into the zone where it doesn't matter what you do because you are at 60 FPS anyway and all the gains stop there.

Anyway, if you don't want to OC, then just be aware that the 3770k is not worth paying for most of the time, but in a very small minority of games if you are one of the small minority of people who can notice a 53 - 56 FPS move, then you might get some tiny benefit for the extra $100.

Personally, I wouldn't say that its worth it to pay 40% more for a 3770k over a baseline 3570k, because in the overall scheme of gaming things your 40% more expense buys you less than 1% more performance on average.

Luckily for us, the 3820 is also benchmarked on the same page, so I will compare the 3570k to the 3820 using the same information.

About half the time in those games the 3820 actually falls behind the 3570k. The other half the time its usually not farther ahead than the 3770k is anyway. Basically, if you don't think the 3770k is worth it you probably really won't find the 3820 to be worth it.

The biggest advantage that the 3820 has over the other two is that it has 40 PCIE lanes built in. If you are going to have tons of PCIE slots and have expansion cards in all of them, this kinda matters. If you are like a normal person then this doesn't matter at all.

The 3820 can easily SLI/Crossfire at x16/x16, which would use up 32 lanes, however, the performance of x16/x16 is sometimes even worse than the performance at x8/x8 and its almost never hugely better, so 40 lanes is really far too much for most people, even when they want to use multiple video cards.

If you seriously intend to use 3 or even 4 video cards, I would highly suggest leaning towards the 3820 out of the options listed, though. However, moreso I would suggest the 3930k over the 3820 if that is indeed what you intend. Even more than that, though, I would rather just talk you out of using more than 1 video card anyway.

As long as you don't absolutely need the extra lanes, the 3820 is worse in most ways. It is from a much older generation and uses almost double the wattage, makes a whole lot more heat, and everything that entails. It does have 10 MBs of L3 cache, though, which is kinda nice to have, but it really doesn't make up for just being architecturally behind the curve.

Anyway, looking at all these numbers I must say that neither the 3770k or 3820 appears to justify the added expense over the 3570k.

Asrock motherboard - Asrock has a pretty short track record as a stand alone company, but in that time they have done pretty well in terms of quality and especially in terms of giving more freebies for the same price as its longer track record brethren like Asus and Gigabyte. On that basis, I can't suggest avoiding this manufacturer out of hand.

Can I just suggest avoiding the extreme 6 in particular? Not really. It is kinda high on price. Most people do just fine with $130 boards and don't need to spend as much as $190. The extreme 6 has 8 + 4 voltage regulators which is something OCers like to see, but for a non-OCer it doesn't matter very much.

The extreme 6 also has a lot of video ports on the back of the PC which are nice for those people who: 1) don't want video cards, or 2) have some kind of video card problem and need the ports for testing purposes. #1 definitely doesn't apply here and the extra ports above and beyond those included in a $130 board doesn't justify the expense at all.

You probably get a couple more USB ports than the $130 board will give you, but using a lot of USB stuff at once isn't a really great idea anyway. A lot of people like it, but in the long term it does bad things to PSUs.

Anyway, I would say a $130 board will probably do just as well for you as the extreme 6 will and it would reduce the PC cost by another $60 in addition to the $80-$100 from above.

Corsair H100 - A big pain in the yin yang and usually provides no better performance than high end air coolers like the Hyper 212 Evo which are priced at like $50-$70 less.

CD Drive - the Asus DRW24-B1ST is best in class. If that is what you meant you intend to get, its a very good choice.

Case - HAF X is extremely good. I have never heard anyone complain that had it and everyone drools over it. I can't fault that choice.

PSU - HX 750 is a solid model, no complaints.

RAM - I would say that you should probably reconsider on this purchase. Two sticks are usually better than 4 for a few reasons that I don't really want to bother delving into right now, so if you wanted 16 GBs of RAM I would suggest you aim for 2x 8GBs rather than 4x 4GBs if you really want to have the whole 16 GBs.

However, nobody afaik has ever noticed the difference of having more than 8 GBs in gaming situations. You could get 2x 4GBs and be just fine if all you are doing is gaming. That would cut off another $40 or so from the PC expense.

Windows uses like 2 GBs of RAM itself, most of the time the other programs open when gaming can't get anywhere close to 2 GBs of RAM used and almost no game uses more than 2 GBs of RAM so that means most people can get by just fine with 6 GBs.

Considering its good to match sticks, its better to have 2x 4GBs than 1x 4 + 1x 2, so that is why 8 GBs is usually suggested over 6 GBs by most people when 6 GBs is usually more than good enough.

I personally have 8 and I don't think I have ever used more than 5.

Also, Corsair isn't my favorite RAM brand. They sell a lot of units, but they have higher failure (DOA) rates than other major brands. I would get Crucial instead, or maybe Kingston. Both of those two makers are tied for the lowest failure rates.

2x 4GB Crucial Ballistix 1600 mhz RAM is a great set of sticks and I would highly recommend them. I use it myself and they just slide in and work.

If you go with my suggestions from above, namely:
3570k over 3770k
$130 motherboard over $190
$30 air cooler over $100 water cooler
2x 4GBs Crucial RAM over 4x 4GBs Corsair, $40 vs ~ $80

Then you can take that savings of about $250 - $300 and get you a nice fat 256 GB SSD, which will definitely make a difference in the way you game and interact with the computer. A positively huge difference.

The same difference would be present if you had a 128 GB or lower SSD too, but 256 is way better than 128 and lower for one reason in particular. That being that its highly unlikely you will run out of space.

At the base the OS and the page file have to be on there which is 20 + RAM GBs (assume 8) and then you have to leave 10% of the drive free for most efficient operations, so that's another 13 gone (assuming 128 GBs). If you want to install some productivity apps like office and PDF readers that might be another up to 10 GBs gone.

By the time you get all that taken into account you are sitting at less than half of the 128 GBs available to actually install games. With many clocking in at 10 GBs or more each, that doesn't leave room for more than maybe 5 or 6 games.

Running the numbers with 256, though, you can get like 14 or 15 on there and not really have to worry about uninstalling the ones you don't play so often but still haven't decided to completely be done playing yet.

If you only ever have 2 or 3 games installed at once the difference between 128 and 256 is pretty non-existent, but if you like to have 5 + installed then its a huge difference because you aren't forced to uninstall the old to make way for the new. You uninstall only when you want to with the 256 and that is pretty nice.

Anyway, hope some of that helps you somehow.
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September 18, 2012 3:08:48 PM

Why the hell this long Post? The difference between i7 2600K, i7 3820, i7 3770K is minor and not considerable, and justifies some marketing schemes made by Intel.

The only disadvanteg of 3770K is that it gets really hot when it surpasses 4.0 Ghz, the i7 3820 and i7 2600k are great overclockers.

The i7 3820 will work only on the X79 Platform.
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September 18, 2012 3:44:00 PM

Food for thought, a Phenom II x 4 955 BE at $55 is a fantastic gaming chip, its old so logic deduces that the 3770K is good for gaming, just rather pointless when a cheaper 3570K would suffice, unless you need that HT hoodwink in a semiconductor.
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September 18, 2012 3:45:04 PM

ilysaml said:
Why the hell this long Post?


If you don't want to read it then don't. It doesn't really concern you if its long or not.

If the OP wants to an in depth answer that relates to his actual question, then he can read through it.

If he wants a half-donkey answer that doesn't even relate to the original question, then he can read yours.

That makes him 100% covered.
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a b à CPUs
September 18, 2012 3:48:47 PM

Unless you are building a topped rig, don't even bother with i7 or i7-extreme.
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September 18, 2012 3:53:36 PM

Bayman115 said:

Cpu: I7 3770k
Mobo: Asrock z77 extreme 6
Gpu: Gigabyte gtx 670 windforce 3x OC
Cooling: Corsair H100
HDD: WD caviar black 1TB
OPD: Asus dvd/rw 24x
Case: coolermaster Haf-x nvidia edition
Psu: Hx-750 silver certified
Ram: Corsair vengeance 1600mhz 16gb dual channel (4x4gb)


CPU: i5 3570K
MOBO: ASROCK Z77 OC Formula
RAM: Geil Corsa Evo DDR3 1866 2x4GB.
Cooling: H100
Chassis: Corsair 600T Graphite.
PSU: Corsair HX 750 V2 Gold rated.
GPU: MSI HD7970 TwinFrozr III
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September 18, 2012 4:13:39 PM

Sarinaide - How did you even get from here <--------- to ---------> way over there?

Just wondering. It would probably help the OP if you actually explained your choices.

It would also probably be helpful if you point out the massive handicaps involved with going down from a i5-3570k to a Phenom 2 x4 965 if you are going to make the 965 sound like an awesome gaming processor.

Unlike how the 3770k is 1-5 FPS more than the 3570k, the 3570k is way more than 1-5 FPS better than a 965.
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a c 190 à CPUs
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September 18, 2012 4:43:25 PM

+1 for the Intel Core i5-3570K
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a c 109 à CPUs
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September 18, 2012 4:48:40 PM

Another vote for the 3570k, no reason to get an i7 at the moment for gaming; rather spend the money saved by going from i7->i5 on a better GPU :) 
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September 18, 2012 5:40:20 PM

sarinaide said:
Unless you are building a topped rig, don't even bother with i7 or i7-extreme.



After reading all these (even the super long Post which I admittetly stopped half way)... here's my summary/opinion on this.

i5-3570K is a better bang for the buck (right now). Undisputed.

That said, I got the I7-3770K for the following reasons...

1 - When I game, I usually have other software running in the background (skype, Teamspeak, Steam, etc. etc.)...the 3770K never stutters whatsoever.

2 - I'm also a programmer and when I need to build/compile stuff, all cores go crazy (this is also true with several other applications I use on a daily/weekly basis.

3 - I7-3770K gets hot at the 4Ghz mark --- but it doesn't when you're watercooling : ) Mine is stable at 4.5Ghz...that's an entire 1Ghz gain! I could go higher but there's no point right now, it blows anything I can throw at it ATM. I should mentioned that on a stock cooler (intel provided), turbo boost will easily bump it to 3.9Ghz when required (not sure about the i5-3570K).

so, unless you're watercooling this puppy and do a lot more than gaming, simply stick with the i5-3570k. Use the money you save on a bigger/better videocard.
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September 19, 2012 12:08:38 AM

Raiddinn said:
If he wants a half-donkey answer that doesn't even relate to the original question, then he can read yours..

I didn't mean any sarcasm with my post and just because you were rude, this doesn't mean I will be rude too.
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September 19, 2012 1:57:21 AM

You reap what you sow.
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September 19, 2012 3:15:48 AM

Still the fact that you were rude.
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September 19, 2012 7:07:07 AM

Alex The PC Gamer said:
After reading all these (even the super long Post which I admittetly stopped half way)... here's my summary/opinion on this.
How about a h100? How will that handle a 4.5 ghz oc on i7 3770k?
i5-3570K is a better bang for the buck (right now). Undisputed.

That said, I got the I7-3770K for the following reasons...

1 - When I game, I usually have other software running in the background (skype, Teamspeak, Steam, etc. etc.)...the 3770K never stutters whatsoever.

2 - I'm also a programmer and when I need to build/compile stuff, all cores go crazy (this is also true with several other applications I use on a daily/weekly basis.

3 - I7-3770K gets hot at the 4Ghz mark --- but it doesn't when you're watercooling : ) Mine is stable at 4.5Ghz...that's an entire 1Ghz gain! I could go higher but there's no point right now, it blows anything I can throw at it ATM. I should mentioned that on a stock cooler (intel provided), turbo boost will easily bump it to 3.9Ghz when required (not sure about the i5-3570K).

so, unless you're watercooling this puppy and do a lot more than gaming, simply stick with the i5-3570k. Use the money you save on a bigger/better videocard.

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September 19, 2012 7:07:44 AM

Best answer selected by Bayman115.
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September 19, 2012 7:15:25 AM

I woul like to thank all of you guys for your advice and that long reply was extremely helpful and detailed. Thank u a heap for that and here are some things I have to say...
Firstly I'm getting 16gb ram because I'm planning on alot of video editing. So my main purpose is gaming but I would like to get an i7 3770k because it may give me better performance than a 3570k when I'm doing my video editing. Also how would the h100 perform on a mid 4ghz oc? I've read that it is actually really good? So idk about that...
Lastly the asrock z77 extreme 6 is a pretty good board, has all the features I want and lastly looks amazing (in my opinion)... I will take everything you guys said into consideration and I was planning on getting possibly a Kingston hyper X SSD 120gb later on when I save up. And I might add another gtx 670 windforce :) 
And also I think that the asus optical drive is that one and yes it's a boss :)  haha thx guys plz get back 2 me!
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September 19, 2012 10:05:11 AM

In regards to the H100, pretty well with push/pull configurations using high static pressure fans, you will get 5ghz plus easy.

Nice setup should do well, you do editing why not get a Radeon, basically AMD designed the HD7000 around GPGPU performance which is light years ahead of anything on the Nvidia side?
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September 19, 2012 10:19:26 AM

Raiddinn said:
Sarinaide - How did you even get from here <--------- to ---------> way over there?

Just wondering. It would probably help the OP if you actually explained your choices.

It would also probably be helpful if you point out the massive handicaps involved with going down from a i5-3570k to a Phenom 2 x4 965 if you are going to make the 965 sound like an awesome gaming processor.

Unlike how the 3770k is 1-5 FPS more than the 3570k, the 3570k is way more than 1-5 FPS better than a 965.


Its been done to death, basically market myopia is never going to change a thing but anyways there are factors to consider;

When running gaming synthetics how does one divorce CPU vs GPU performance basically the GPU is the prominant player and hence any gaming rig the better balance price/performance lies in cheapest and fastest CPU and most expensive fastest supported GPU. Facts are the 955BE can very easily game at FPS well above the 60hz limit with the right hardware setup, if it can do that at $50 on amazon then it still is a very efficient gaming chip.

Another aspect and undeniable one is that AMD, Nvidia and Intel have gaming partners, sadly Intel and Nvidia have more, and the result is better optimized game play for maximum results, this is understandable but not really a good indication.

I think you will also find it almost impossible for day to day production to discern between a Intel and AMD chip in regards to office, RAR, Adobe basically the difference is completely unnoticable, in high production applications I find whether Intel or AMD the higher the thread count the better the performance but again its user experience related.

What I will say is the difference going from Phenom II to FX to Intel concurrent chips is slight but noticable responses which to me comes down to the IMC controller on Intel being very good, The FX is far more fluid than the Phenom II's but the intel feels just that little bit more smoother, the other aspect is power/heat which intel will be good at considering their DT line is basically a mobility processor beefed to desktop trim, needless to say it does run rather cool compared to AMD chips.

I have basically every single or used every single processor Intel and AMD and suffice to say these so called margins of difference are completely laughable, basic fact remains, unless you live on sythentic benchmarks you will never tell tell the compute difference as its all relatively close, long story short it is down to end users.
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September 19, 2012 1:57:40 PM

It doesn't sound like you are being internally consistent to me.

Why 3570k + 7970 if your philosophy is to sacrifice processor for better video?

7970 = 400
680 = 540

3570k = 230

Given the difference above, you could shave 140 off that 3570k and bring it down to $90 and go up to a GTX 680.

So, being internally consistent, you should be suggesting

Phenom 2 x4 955 + GTX 680
instead of
i5-3570k + 7970

Especially so if there is no day to day difference in other programs.

However, that wasn't really what I was talking about. It appeared that you were just sidegrading things for no rhyme or reason. That was more what I was wondering about.

Like going from Corsair Vengence 1600 mhz to Geil Corsa 1866 mhz. What is the gaming difference between these two? Well south of 1 FPS?

ilysaml said:
Still the fact that you were rude.


So you took offense to my response to your stupid comment?

How about you not make the stupid comment in the first place and you won't have anything to take offense to next time.

BTW, best answer = wtf long

Some people actually like to have an in depth explanation that actually addresses their question.
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a b à CPUs
September 19, 2012 3:30:10 PM

One more time for the slow, you were rude.
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September 19, 2012 3:44:03 PM

One more time for the slower, you were first and you deserve what you got.
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September 19, 2012 4:01:02 PM

Raiddinn said:
It doesn't sound like you are being internally consistent to me.

Why 3570k + 7970 if your philosophy is to sacrifice processor for better video?

7970 = 400
680 = 540

3570k = 230

Given the difference above, you could shave 140 off that 3570k and bring it down to $90 and go up to a GTX 680.

So, being internally consistent, you should be suggesting

Phenom 2 x4 955 + GTX 680
instead of
i5-3570k + 7970

Especially so if there is no day to day difference in other programs.

However, that wasn't really what I was talking about. It appeared that you were just sidegrading things for no rhyme or reason. That was more what I was wondering about.

Like going from Corsair Vengence 1600 mhz to Geil Corsa 1866 mhz. What is the gaming difference between these two? Well south of 1 FPS?



So you took offense to my response to your stupid comment?

How about you not make the stupid comment in the first place and you won't have anything to take offense to next time.

BTW, best answer = wtf long

Some people actually like to have an in depth explanation that actually addresses their question.


I did a build for someone and he wanted that Asrock OC formula with the Yellow Black theme, the Geil Corsa's match it well, basically I am OCD when it comes to theme matchings so that is irrelevent, so yes you can easily get Vengenane, Tridents whatever you would like basically RAM is the least performance hit component.

As to CPU's, no a GTX 680 and 955 is not a good fit, best GPU with the lowest cost CPU but still the best CPU at a low cost, in that sense something like a GTX 660ti or GTX 570/580 with a 955BE or a 3570K with a 7950/7970/670/680 is also a good price to performance mix, when compared to a 3960X and GTX680/7970 or multi card setups as the performance yields are not that good. In short the best processor at the lowest cost and the best GPU it can handle.

Some of the best 955BE combo's I have used is a 955BE + HD 5850 Crossfired ( I am sure a 7850 CF solution will be amazing too)
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September 19, 2012 4:04:22 PM

Guys, this thread was "solved" 6 posts ago...move on plz.
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September 19, 2012 4:44:54 PM

We are here not just for the OP, but also for ourselves, so we can better serve others.

For that reason, it matters to me to know why other respondents choose things they choose or make the suggestions that they make.

It should matter to other people providing tech support as well.
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January 28, 2013 11:01:31 AM

Sorry but your theory of being future-proof is not that great. To be honest I went a 3820 @ 4.75ghz and could not be happier...reason why? Well I get to enjoy the tick of 10-12 cores (plus hyperthreading depending on model) when ivybridge-e comes out, eliminating any cpu bottleneck for my trifire 7970 setup, after which I can sell and go for the new nvidia range with ARM cores on-board. I wish people put more thought into their purchases for future-tech rather than the immediate benefit.

The reason for this is that cpu's are less-often replaced than gpu's. Games and certain programs (i.e. f@h and mining such as bitcoin/litecoin) require upgrades over time for both visual and money-making benefits.

If youre asking him to go with a super-hot TIM which intel themselves admitted they f**ked up then by all means, let him blow his money on lower performance. And even if you purchase the intel warranty against overclocking, adjusting the thermal performance of the TIM will still void that warranty. the 3570k and 3770k are intels dirty little secrets of neglect, if you want pci-e 3.0 then please either bear with the 2.0 until haswell comes out or go with the 2011 chipsets, Trust me...you will be doing youselves a favor......

I do understand where you are coming from but please dont spread too much mis-information around. When you pair a 3820 (entry-level cpu) with a ud3 or even the asrock extreme's you will get fantastic performance. If you want to get more out of the 3820 and the ivyb-e further down the line then go for the sniper's or the asrocks as the ud3-ud5 have issues with going over 4.5ghz on the 3820. This will not be affecting the ivybridge-e's if you go for the unlocked editions though. This can only cost you $50-$70 more for future-proofing. If you decide to take my advice then thats fantastic and I consider myself educated in gamer to semi-enthusiast shopping, if not then I hope haswell holds all the pew pew you need.

In the end though the best way to shop online is not only check out your countries' prices but also the close-by countries' prices. This way you know you will get it in a similar time-frame and possibly (depending on exchange rates) save some cash. It is best to know what you want to buy, have a "guess-timate" of what you are going to spend and do the purchase in increments if you are strapped for cash (hence youre asking about a cost-worthy system right???!@!?!?!?). I got my setup without blowing my budget each week and made myself salivate in anticipation for the next delivery in my build. Try and overlap by spending only so much on small peripherals (e.g. keyboard or hdd/sdd) and leave the rest of the budget to overlap for the next week to blow out on something uber-nice.

I know a lot of early to late teens come on here wanting to build new systems and the occasional married/engaged man (me) needing to save $$$ where they can while still being able to supply themselves with a fantastic system that wont see them spending too much in the near-future. This is why i am placing this information here so they do not make a misinformed choice. This is so they can spend very little on the motherboard/ram/cpu (all of which arent MASSIVELY crucial in gaming performance as long as its baseline and overclocked respectively) and are able to resell gpu's yearly and spend half of what they would when they are upgrading to the next generation of gpu or even the one after.

This way of thinking has helped me save literally $1000's over the years rather than shelling out on new "fads" like a mac fanboy camping out for 2 weeks waiting for his iphone 5 "mmmmm love that slightly-larger-but-unnecessary-screen", please think of the alternatives and research for the OP who is asking for advice, it took me 1 week of researching for my current build and will last me 3-4 years (minus selling and rebuying gpu's). the lower tier of chipsets are hard to resell usually unless it is another young person who is after borderline-medium performance for the next year's list of spectacular games. If you think otherwise please look at the mid-range to extreme iterations of intel chipset cpu's, you will find I am usually correct unless someone doesnt know how to market their own item.

Cheers,

Rob.

P.S. Yes I am a little tipsy and may come across as arrogant but this is with the best intentions as I would like as many people as possible to enjoy the ability of being able to play games at top notch settings (that is assuming most people buy performance non-commercial parts for gaming)as I do and to be immersed in them as well......
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