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Spyder2 & PS CS2 - Color Profile Questions

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Anonymous
July 14, 2005 10:43:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I'm a colour novice who needs help with the basics of how to use colour
profiles created with a hardware colorimeter. I recently bought a Pantone
Colorvision Spyder2 Pro Studio. I use the Adobe Creative Suite. I have
dual monitors connected to an nVidia Quadro FX4400 card. The displays are
horizontally spanned. One is an HP-2335 LCD, the other is a Philips
Brilliance 202P4 CRT. My OS is XP Pro w/ SP2.
I have several questions; some specific to the Spyder2 and some general.
1. I have successfully created colour profiles using the Spyder2 software
but they are not being associated with the monitors. If I use the "Pantone
"Profile Chooser" there are not profiles listed as "associated with this
monitor". If I select the "all monitor profiles" option, then I can see and
select the profiles that I have created. How do I associate them with the
correct monitor so that they will load at start-up?
2. When I create a new profile with the Spyder2PRO software, the profile
gets automatically set as my default profile and there doesn't appear to be
any way to choose another profile as my default. I can use the Pantone
"Profile Chooser" to make a profile active but it does not seem to have a
way for me to identify which profile is to be the default. How do I do
this?
3. How do the Pantone monitor profiles relate to the choices in PS's "Color
Settings" "Working Spaces"? The custom profiles created with the Spyder2
appear as choices in PS, however, if I select as my sRGB working space
profile the one that was customized to the monitor with the Spyder2, then
any files that I open with an embedded sRGB profile ask if I want to switch
to the working space profile. If I do so, then the image may look correct
on my display but what good is it to then send the photo on for further
processing with my Spyder2 profile embedded? That seems useless.
4. I sometimes want to edit stills for inclusion on an Adobe Premiere Pro
NTSC timeline. I have created a monitor profile for NTSC with the Spyder2.
If I already have the monitor profile set to NTSC using the Pantone Profile
Chooser, do I still have to select the same custom Spyder2 NTSC profile as
my PS working space and as the embedded profile in the image?
5. If I use the Pantone Color Chooser to set the monitor profile to the
Spyder2 calibrated NTSC profile, will the clips displayed in Premier Pro's
monitor windows be of the correct colours? (I realize that it's best to use
a properly set standard TV or analog monitor for judging output and I do
this also but that is not my question.)
I'm sorry for going on so long but I'm really quite lost on a number of
points. I hope that some kind Spyder2 user will help me out with a
mini-tutorial or at least point me to one on the web! TIA
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 10:43:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>Mardon writes ...
>
>I'm a colour novice who needs help with the basics of how to use
>colour profiles created with a hardware colorimeter.

This site will help explain the basics ...
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/13605.html

>I have dual monitors ... I have successfully created colour profiles
>using the Spyder2 software but they are not being associated with
>the monitors.

I think there are problems with XP, color management and dual monitors
.... basically, as I understand it (I have a single monitor system) you
need to assign the profile to one monitor or the other but can't color
manage both (ie, it can't recognize two different monitor profiles). I
may be wrong but this is how I understand it works with XP. Most
people profile one monitor and display the image there, then use the
second monitor for non-color critical things like displaying the
palettes etc.

>When I create a new profile with the Spyder2PRO software, the profile
>gets automatically set as my default profile and there doesn't appear to be
>any way to choose another profile as my default.

The profile probably gets loaded by a small executable at start-up.
You should be able to delete it (or move it) and set the default by
right-clicking on the desktop and selecting Properties > Settings >
Advanced > Color Management then selecting one from the list and
clicking 'set as default'.

>if I select as my sRGB working space profile the one that was
>customized to the monitor with the Spyder2

This is NOT something you want to do ... sRGB is a working space,
meaning an abstract gray balanced space to do edits, while the monitor
profile is a device-specific profile that is NOT suited for use as a
working space.

Bill
July 15, 2005 3:27:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mardon" <mgb72mgb@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1NCdnfZrr73mSEvfRVn-2A@rogers.com...
> I'm a colour novice who needs help with the basics of how to use colour
> profiles created with a hardware colorimeter. I recently bought a Pantone
> Colorvision Spyder2 Pro Studio. I use the Adobe Creative Suite. I have
> dual monitors connected to an nVidia Quadro FX4400 card. The displays are
> horizontally spanned. One is an HP-2335 LCD, the other is a Philips
> Brilliance 202P4 CRT. My OS is XP Pro w/ SP2.
> I have several questions; some specific to the Spyder2 and some general.
> 1. I have successfully created colour profiles using the Spyder2 software
> but they are not being associated with the monitors. If I use the
> "Pantone "Profile Chooser" there are not profiles listed as "associated
> with this monitor". If I select the "all monitor profiles" option, then I
> can see and select the profiles that I have created. How do I associate
> them with the correct monitor so that they will load at start-up?
> 2. When I create a new profile with the Spyder2PRO software, the profile
> gets automatically set as my default profile and there doesn't appear to
> be any way to choose another profile as my default. I can use the Pantone
> "Profile Chooser" to make a profile active but it does not seem to have a
> way for me to identify which profile is to be the default. How do I do
> this?
> 3. How do the Pantone monitor profiles relate to the choices in PS's
> "Color Settings" "Working Spaces"? The custom profiles created with the
> Spyder2 appear as choices in PS, however, if I select as my sRGB working
> space profile the one that was customized to the monitor with the Spyder2,
> then any files that I open with an embedded sRGB profile ask if I want to
> switch to the working space profile. If I do so, then the image may look
> correct on my display but what good is it to then send the photo on for
> further processing with my Spyder2 profile embedded? That seems useless.
> 4. I sometimes want to edit stills for inclusion on an Adobe Premiere Pro
> NTSC timeline. I have created a monitor profile for NTSC with the
> Spyder2. If I already have the monitor profile set to NTSC using the
> Pantone Profile Chooser, do I still have to select the same custom Spyder2
> NTSC profile as my PS working space and as the embedded profile in the
> image?
> 5. If I use the Pantone Color Chooser to set the monitor profile to the
> Spyder2 calibrated NTSC profile, will the clips displayed in Premier Pro's
> monitor windows be of the correct colours? (I realize that it's best to
> use a properly set standard TV or analog monitor for judging output and I
> do this also but that is not my question.)
> I'm sorry for going on so long but I'm really quite lost on a number of
> points. I hope that some kind Spyder2 user will help me out with a
> mini-tutorial or at least point me to one on the web! TIA


Hi there. I am not very informed about using "Slide Show" type software and
display on TVs, but I do know about Monitor Profiles and Printing.

You do not quite seem to have got the basics of colour management, and the
different types of Profiles.

The profiles you have created with your Spyder are Monitor Profiles, which
are "Device Specific". That means they are used to correct the colour of
the image, being shown on that particular monitor, so that they appear
correct.

(To be a bit more specific, they will alter the colours so that the colours
will appear identical to the colours which would appear on any Calibrated
Monitor on any other Colour Managed System).

To use these Profiles, in Windows Desktop go to "Display Properties" >
"Settings" . Select your main Monitor then go to "Advanced" > "Colour
Management" and choose the Profile you created for that Monitor and set it
as Default. Go back and do the same for your other Monitor.

It could be that your Spyder will do this Automatically when you use it to
create the Profile for that Monitor.

Photoshop, and other Colour Management Aware Programs, will now use those
Profiles for each Monitor. If you have Adobe Gamma installed in your
Control Panel, you will need to disable it, or it will interfere with your
Spyder Profiles

It is not really very important to have the Second Monitor Calibrated,
because you will always have the Image showing on the main one, and will
probably only use the second one for the Tools and Dialogue boxes.

Your "Working Space Profiles" are not Device Specific, they are Industry
Wide Standards. Your Images should be saved and be "Tagged" with whichever
one you have decided to use. It is generally thought that sRGB should be
used for Images intended only for On Screen viewing. AdobeRGB is considered
best for Images intended to be printed by Inkjet.

The Profile for your NTSC display will be an "Output Profile" just like a
"Printer Profile", and it will be used to convert the colours from the
Woking Space Profile, so that the colours will appear correct when
displayed, or printed, on that device. Printer Profiles will be used by PS
when it is outputting data to a printer, and can be selected in "Print
Space" in its Print Dialogues. I do not know how you will use that
profile in your particular workflow, perhaps it will be used by your Slide
Show software, but it will be Specific to the particular Display Device for
which it was created.

Hope this helps, even if only just a bit.

Roy G
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 11:20:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk>
> You do not quite seem to have got the basics of colour
> management, and the different types of Profiles.

Thanks to both Roy and Bill for the replies.
I agree with Roy that I "do not quite seem to have got the basics of colour
management, and the different types of Profiles" but your response is
helping me! :-)

have read the article that Bill suggested and that helped some. I have also
studied Roy's comments. I now understand that the device profiles for my
monitors, which I create with I create with the Spyder, are different from
the "Working Space Profiles" and the embedded profiles. A couple things are
still confusing me. First, when I create a new profile using the Spyder
software, I am asked to choose one of the industry stand profiles (e.g.
sRGB, NTSC, Adobe RGB, etc) upon which to base my new monitor specific
profile. I don't understand why. If the profile that I am creating is
describing the monitor, what do these standard profiles have to do with
creating it? If I choose different working spaces in PS, do I have to have
different monitor calibrations built for each? That would seem odd. I
thought the whole idea of a calibrated monitor is that I would only need one
profile for that monitor. Second, I'm pretty much totally confused about
how the choice of a working space profile in PS interacts with the monitor
profiles created with the Spyder. Do I have to have both of these to see
accurate colour on my monitor?. Sorry to sound dense. Could you have
another try at explaining the relationship between hardware profiles and
working space profiles.
Roy's explanation of using the Windows Desktop Properties to associate the
colour profiles with the monitors works great. This was the step that I was
missing previously. When I "Add" profiles" from this Properties dialogue
box, they then become associated with the monitors in the Pantone Profile
Chooser. The Windows Desktop Properties does not allow me to choose
different profiles for each monitor (as Bill mentioned) but once I add the
profiles using this Windows dialogue, then I can select different profiles
for each monitor using the Pantone Profile Chooser.
!