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Did AMD lost to Nvidia?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 1, 2012 7:37:23 AM

Basing from the fact that GTX 680 >= 7970 in game benchmarks, it has lower tdp and only cost 500 dollars compared to the 550 dollars price of 7970.
Although the only advantage of 7970 is in floating point operations.

(I am not a fanboy of Nvidia nor AMD, I just go which one offers the better product)

More about : amd lost nvidia

April 1, 2012 7:38:34 AM

Yes, AMD has basically lost this round with the 7970. NVIDIA has become more efficient than the long-reigning champ AMD in terms of power consumption and noise.
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a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2012 7:58:29 AM

It's more complex than that. For gaming, yes absolutely NVIDIA has beaten AMD. But for compute performance, AMD's GCN architecture crushes Kepler (partially due to the latter removing the hardware scheduling that Fermi had). I'd expect to see plenty of 7000 series GPUs showing up in bitcoin machines and other compute intensive tasks. That said, it's possible that Big Kepler does keep Fermi's hardware scheduler which would likely see it performing much better than any of AMD's offerings but we won't know until it's released. For me, I got the 7870 because it fit my price range and the compute performance of AMD's GCN (for the OpenCL work I've been doing) simply made it the better choice than Kepler even if Kepler's equivalent existed at this price point.
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a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2012 8:21:18 AM

Its not over yet.

AMD has been making good money from the 79xx cards. I guarantee a price drop is imminent. If the 7970 is sold for a decent amount cheaper than a 680, then it will become a very popular choice (price/perormance has always been AMDs main selling point)

even at present,its not so clear cut. a LARGE majority of people who buy these high end cards will be overclocking. when overclocking is taken into account on both cards, the 7970 usually wins out, since it has much more overclocking headroom.

I will actually be buying a new card next week, and i'm still undecided as tro weather to get a 7970 or 680. but at the moment im leaning toward the 7970, because not only does it perform at least equal to the 680 when overclocking, but its actually cheaper in my country.
and i actually own a 3d vision monitor. If i didn't, i most certainly would be going with the 7970.

im sure many people outside the US are in a very similar situation. and when the cost advantage of the 680 is taken away, it becomes a much tougher call.

I'm glad though. the two flagship cards have never performed so similarly in all the time i can recall. this can only be good for consumers from the inevitable pricing war that will follow.

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a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2012 9:02:47 AM

no i do not think AMD lost .
AMD didn't Aimed to have the most powerfull card out , winning is not that ...
it always settled for Midrange , looking back @ the 6xxx series u'll see that it didn't have the Most powerfull card there too , and the 6970 was weaker that the 580GTX , but did it lost ? no it gained on sales % on nvidia ...
not everybody can spend 500$ on only for a VGA , for all those who will want to spend less , AMD will be their choice
with the 7870 ~ 580GTX , i think they achieved what they aimed for .
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a c 175 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 11:20:46 AM

No they did not lost.

7970 will drop it's prices, and is easy to do that I think. Why? The prices of GCN are high because there are no competition, which is a good way for them to gain cash :lol: . Nevertheless, kepler is defintely very impressive, especially at the efficiency where AMD used to be the king of.
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a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2012 1:12:43 PM

I think that this year Nvidia's GPUs are better, but in the long run- 5970 is beast.
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a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2012 3:37:34 PM

I am patiently waiting for a price drop on the 7970. I have been checking newegg everday since I am sure they will sell out of the 7970's when this happens. For high resolutions with a single card, the 7970 looks like it wins in benchmark tests.
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a c 592 U Graphics card
a c 151 À AMD
a c 385 Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 4:42:35 PM

AMD lost big time, they got beat by Nvidia's mid-range Kepler card, which in turn radically changed the entire marketing roadmap for Nvidia. The true high-end Kepler GK110 is still waiting in the wings.

Every advantage point that AMD may have had in the past are all gone now: cheaper, more power efficient, multiple monitors on one card... all these are now Nvidia advantages. In addition, Nvidia still has its traditional advantages: better drivers, better image quality (now with new AA modes and better texture filtering), PhysX, higher performance, better game compatibility, better 3D Visiion, and better tesselation performance. Other than compute performance, its hard to think of a clear advantage for purchasing an AMD card.
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Anonymous
a c 117 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 4:49:21 PM

in the graphics war, nobody loses, but the consumers win :) 
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 5:14:51 PM

17seconds said:
AMD lost big time, they got beat by Nvidia's mid-range Kepler card, which in turn radically changed the entire marketing roadmap for Nvidia. The true high-end Kepler GK110 is still waiting in the wings.

Every advantage point that AMD may have had in the past are all gone now: cheaper, more power efficient, multiple monitors on one card... all these are now Nvidia advantages. In addition, Nvidia still has its traditional advantages: better drivers, better image quality (now with new AA modes and better texture filtering), PhysX, higher performance, better game compatibility, better 3D Visiion, and better tesselation performance. Other than compute performance, its hard to think of a clear advantage for purchasing an AMD card.


You can't call the gtx680 the mid-ranged card until there is a high end card on the market. By the time the GK110 is released, AMD may have something else coming as well. We can really only look at what is in front of us.

AMD had a few months in the lead, and Nvidia released their card closer to their Hz cap, so they took the lead, but the 7970 can be overclocked to match the performance of the Nvidia cards at their max overclock. It's much closer than you seem to want to admit. Non-reference overclocks may even things out a bit after a while.

That said, their new AA stuff is definitely good and for gaming purposes only, I'd give the 680 a small edge. (I don't count PhysX, as there are probably 2 games worth using it on).

I'll be getting a GTX680, but the GTX680 is still largely a mythical creature. Considering when these cards were released and made available also means you can't fairly declare the 680 a winner yet. The 7970 was the winner in January and still the winner today until the gtx 680 is available. By the time it is, the 7970 non-reference cards may be delivering better factory overclocks, evening things out a lot more on the game side.
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April 1, 2012 5:28:28 PM

The only reason the 7970 is still $550 is that you can't buy a gtx 680 for $500 if they aren't on store shelves.
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a c 106 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 5:49:55 PM

It looks that way, but you can't really buy a GTX 680 right now for $500 unless you're darn lucky, so it's not as much of a win for nVidia now is it? AMD is charging $550 because they can. When the 680 has better availability then AMD will have to drop prices. Till then 7900 cards are still selling :D . If I really wanted something now I would go with a 7970 with GTX 680 availability being what it is. Personally I'm gonna wait till the next gen to upgrade since two 5870s is still doing pretty good for me.
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a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2012 6:20:01 PM

Remember compute people!


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a c 143 U Graphics card
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April 1, 2012 6:57:36 PM

And don't forget that HD 7970s are still the perfect choice for multi GPU high end systems, the scaling of the HD 7970s is still better than GTX 680s.

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Anonymous
a c 117 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 7:14:03 PM

ilysaml said:
And don't forget that HD 7970s are still the perfect choice for multi GPU high end systems, the scaling of the HD 7970s is still better than GTX 680s.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4734/amdcrossfirexvsnvidiasl.jpg

must be april fools when someone says the 680s don't SLI well:


who is going to spend $1,000 and not max the settings?
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Anonymous
a c 117 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 8:40:40 PM

bystander said:
He didn't say it didn't SLI well, he said they didn't SLI as well.

my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts. :lol: 
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a c 216 U Graphics card
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a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 1, 2012 8:43:15 PM

Anonymous said:
my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts. :lol: 


:p  I'll likely get the 680 if I go for one this series. They both are good, but I have a 3D vision monitor. While it works with AMD, it does so with HDMI, which limits me to 720p for gaming. When ever I play something demanding, I really wish the 680 was available, as the 470's are so damn loud when pushed.
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a c 175 U Graphics card
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April 2, 2012 3:44:32 AM

Wait, but wasn't GK110 are next gen kepler and suppose to compete with AMD Sea Islands?

I see your points guys, AMD are not dropping prices of their 7900 series cards because you should be very lucky to get GTX 680 by $500. I think is Because it's just a sale (at launch) price. The real price should be more.
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a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2012 5:18:30 AM

I have just ordered a gtx 680. I was completely on the fence but decided that if i have a 3d vision monitor i may as well go with the card that can use it if needed.

In all honesty though, if it wasn't for the monitor i would have gone with a 7970.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
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a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 5:22:28 AM

welshmousepk said:
I have just ordered a gtx 680. I was completely on the fence but decided that if i have a 3d vision monitor i may as well go with the card that can use it if needed.

In all honesty though, if it wasn't for the monitor i would have gone with a 7970.


I'll be going 680 for the same reason, but I was wondering by the way you worded things, do you use 3D vision much? I personally love it, but wish it was better supported. Dev's are always cheating and making certain things in 2D messing up the 3D effect, but the ones that do work well on, look amazing (The Witcher 2, Crysis 2, and Skyrim with 3D vision water fix).
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April 2, 2012 5:25:03 AM

bystander said:
I'll be going 680 for the same reason, but I was wondering by the way you worded things, do you use 3D vision much? I personally love it, but wish it was better supported. Dev's are always cheating and making certain things in 2D messing up the 3D effect, but the ones that do work well on, look amazing (The Witcher 2, Crysis 2, and Skyrim with 3D vision water fix).


I actually very rarely use it. Which is why i came so close to ordering a 7970. pretty much every game seems to have some badly rendered 2d object (or shadows) thast render at screen depth and totally ruin it. the only two games that io find are enhanced by it are just cause 2, and BF3.
and even though the effect in BF3 is brilliant, i still turn it off. its so hard to hit people at range in 3d...

still, i'd prefer to keep the option there for any games that release that do have good support for it.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 5:33:30 AM

I found a modder by the name of Helix who has a mod that fixes a lot of games. I've only used his Skyrim fix so far (just got it working this last week), but it's amazing what it has done for Skyrim. It fixes the shadow issue in many games from this list I've seen.

You might check it out here: http://helixmod.wikispot.org/gamelist

He also has a mod that allows you to fix any game with shadow issues by yourself. It looks real promising (and depressing that dev's just don't fix it on their own from the get go).
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a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2012 5:49:11 AM

Awesome! If only this forum had a rep system. thanks for that link!
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a c 216 U Graphics card
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a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 5:51:34 AM

I just tried it on Kingdoms of Amalur, and it took a game that was ruined by shadows, and made it near perfect in 3D. It's definitely a keeper.
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 11:13:02 AM

@looniam
You just picked a game favoring nVidia cards.

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Anonymous
a c 117 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 11:52:42 AM

ilysaml said:
@looniam
You just picked a game favoring nVidia cards.

how so?
i picked the most demanding game AFAIK.
really the, "you picked game A because . . ." is such an overused defense :p 
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a c 88 U Graphics card
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April 2, 2012 12:04:00 PM

Another Amd vs Nvidia thread.........yawn
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 12:04:28 PM

Really? I thought Crysis 2 & Metro 2033 are more demanding. :) 
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Anonymous
a c 117 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 12:06:34 PM

:o 
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 2:04:49 PM

ilysaml said:
@looniam
You just picked a game favoring nVidia cards.


Did you look at that BF3 benchmark? It shows exactly what you were saying before. It favors the 7970 in crossfire, but still shows it scales in SLI just fine.
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a c 143 U Graphics card
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April 2, 2012 5:26:30 PM

I know what I wrote. I was talking about the 1080P bench from the link i provided and i don't trust the results from Hardocp that much, I believe the CF scaling would be much better with the upcoming drivers. I still see grabbing the HD 7970s for Eyfinity setups is a top solution solution only if price came down.

By the way, i see no benefit releasing the HD 7950 with that level of performance while the HD 7870 can be adjusted to match its level.
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a c 175 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 6:23:03 PM

Agree, 7950 is pointless.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
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a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 11:15:39 PM

ilysaml said:
I know what I wrote. I was talking about the 1080P bench from the link i provided and i don't trust the results from Hardocp that much, I believe the CF scaling would be much better with the upcoming drivers. I still see grabbing the HD 7970s for Eyfinity setups is a top solution solution only if price came down.

By the way, i see no benefit releasing the HD 7950 with that level of performance while the HD 7870 can be adjusted to match its level.


These cards get bottlenecked a lot by the CPU at 1080p, so I like the idea of comparing at high resolutions. That said, I can see how Hardocp can be tricky when looking at it at a glance. They like to compare cards with each card at its max settings, so often you will see different settings for the different cards. They do often have an apples to apples comparison at the bottom of each page, but it is easy to get fooled by their benchmarks.
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a c 143 U Graphics card
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April 2, 2012 11:44:07 PM

bystander said:
These cards get bottlenecked a lot by the CPU at 1080p.

I have seen most of the benches with the i7 3960X @ 4.2 and i guess it depends more on the game title, you couldn't maintain 60 FPS in Metro 2033 with a single card solution.

And i remember seeing 3-way GTX 580s in 2D surround, they guy got avg 48 FPS @ 5760x.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
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a c 80 Î Nvidia
April 2, 2012 11:45:16 PM

ilysaml said:
I have seen most of the benches with the i7 3960X @ 4.2 and i guess it depends more on the game title, you couldn't maintain 60 FPS in Metro 2033 with a single card solution.

And i remember seeing 3-way GTX 580s in 2D surround, they guy got avg 48 FPS @ 5760x.


True, it does depend on the game.
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