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Buy new or improve?

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June 1, 2012 6:47:49 AM

I currently own a system of

1045t Phenom x6
8gigs of memory
MSI 520 GT
350w PSU

Do you think I am better off starting new or replacing my PSU and GPU for gaming in the next couple of years?

More about : buy improve

a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 7:02:37 AM

the 1045 isnt the best Phenom II for gaming, but its sufficient. The GT 520 on the other hand is a weak video card, it was weak when it was brand new.

For gaming, a better video card would be a must. I would consider something such as a 6870, they cost around $170 bucks, very decent video card. A better power supply would be a good idea as well, I would consider something like a Corsair CX 500v2, about $60 bucks from Newegg.

The 1045T has a locked multiplier, but I *think* you can clock it up some via the reference clock. You should be able to push it up to about 225 without issue, giving you about 3GHZ, maybe higher.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 8:05:13 AM

Good choices on the video card and PSU, but what Mobo do you already have? Chances are your motherboard is fine, if anything I would be considering a CPU like a Phenom II 965 Black Edition, but I'd see how much I could get out of the 1045T at the reference clock before I went that route.
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June 1, 2012 8:18:17 AM

My Mobo is unfortunately a crappy Foxxcon.
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June 1, 2012 8:19:40 AM

add some aftermarket cpu cooling too if your overclocking, as long as you dont spend mega bucks on a video card and push multi monitors or big resolutions your cpu overclocked should be fine, your psu has to go it must be a quality one id be suprised if a cheapo 350watt could handle much more than the phen2x6
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June 1, 2012 8:21:36 AM

ctorres1211 said:
My Mobo is unfortunately a crappy Foxxcon.

probably not alot of overclocking for you what oem is your compu from, dell, hp, lenovo, etc?
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 8:25:50 AM

ctorres1211 said:
My Mobo is unfortunately a crappy Foxxcon.

Okay.. well for the price you're willing to pay for that board, you could do better.

Open Box Asus Sabertooth 990FX (HELL OF A DEAL- I have one of these as you can tell by my sig, Asus will honor the warranty on open box items as I understand it, and it comes with 5 year standard)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Or if you want the piece of mind of a new in box, you could go with this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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June 1, 2012 8:34:57 AM

Oo and including a black edition 975 phenom II it should be right around what i can spend :) 

Only remaining parts will be Ram, disc drive, and hdd. :p 
Original Parts I mean.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 8:40:11 AM

Honestly, I would try to see what you can get out of that 1045T overclocking it before buying a new CPU. But a new mobo would be a good idea, since cheapo motherboards may not be as supportive over overclocking. Assuming you can get a decent overclock on the 1045T it is a 6 core processor afterall.

And if you did go with a 975, I would just get the 965, its cheaper and the same CPU just a different clock speed, since both CPUs are fully unlocked, theres little point in paying more. This was something I didn't fully appreciate when I did my build.

If you have money for a motherboard and CPU, why not spend more money and get an even stronger video card than the 6870? Maybe you could go for the 7850? For gaming, your video card matters the most. (I'm assuming gaming is your primary goal here, correct me if I'm wrong)
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June 1, 2012 8:40:18 AM

ctorres1211 said:
Oo and including a black edition 975 phenom II it should be right around what i can spend :) 

Only remaining parts will be Ram, disc drive, and hdd. :p 
Original Parts I mean.


if your going to go to the effort of getting new mobo and cpu you should consider the intels
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 8:41:35 AM

jasont78 said:
if your going to go to the effort of getting new mobo and cpu you should consider the intels

Worth considering, but theres no way I would advise a dual core i3 over a quad or hex core. The bottom line recommendation I personally would make is an i5 which starts at $180 for the cheapest.
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June 1, 2012 8:51:07 AM

nekulturny said:
Worth considering, but theres no way I would advise a dual core i3 over a quad or hex core. The bottom line recommendation I personally would make is an i5 which starts at $180 for the cheapest.

multi-role compu yeah i would start with a quad but honestly the i3's match the phenoms under 'most' circumstances and even beat them with alot of game scenarios but personally as nekulturny said i wouldnt go less than a i5, 2500k's are great, will easily beat heavily overclocked amd's even at stock speeds most of the time in my experience and now ivys out they may get cheaper, also 77 chipsets out so alot of 68 will be going eol and the 67 already is so you may pick up a bargain i got my board in my sig for 70 bucks less about 6 months ago when it went eol
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 8:58:20 AM

Well, my problem with the dual core i3s is that while most games today still only use 2 cores, this can change any time without warning.

I don't think you'll see Ivy's getting cheaper, Intel doesn't drop the prices of their CPUs, they can afford not to considering they outsell AMD 5 to 1. That being said, most of the benches I've seen of Phenom IIs vs i3s in gaming, the "difference" is purely on paper, actual gameplay its zero.

I can vouch for this with personal experience as my significant other's rig has an i5-2400 ($190 dollar quad core) in it with a GTX 460 vs the rig in my sig they can both play the same games in the same settings.

You may find the boards drop in price as the chipsets go EOL, but not the CPUs. Not to go far off topic, but Jason, you might want to take a look at this article I came across. I found it quite interesting:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1210060/fx8120-vs-2500k-benc...


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June 1, 2012 9:06:06 AM

Hmmm so many choices, but I'm starting to think the only salvageable part of this OEM HP is the RAM, Disc Tray, and the HDD.

Also though I could just get a 7850 or something around there as a GPU and a better PSU and probably manage well for games.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:08:49 AM

ctorres1211 said:
Hmmm so many choices, but I'm starting to think the only salvageable part of this OEM HP is the RAM, Disc Tray, and the HDD.

Also though I could just get a 7850 or something around there as a GPU and a better PSU and probably manage well for games.


Nah, your CPU isn't a lost cause, you can overclock it, you just have to do it with the reference clock and not the multiplier. This limits how far you can push it, but you can definitely get a sizable bump out of it. (My CPU is overclocked purely at the reference clock, I didn't touch the multiplier, I pushed it 400mhz over stock, I would get the 212 Evo cooler I recommended to you, the motherboard, and the best video card you can get with whatever budget is left over.
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June 1, 2012 9:11:43 AM

nekulturny said:
Well, my problem with the dual core i3s is that while most games today still only use 2 cores, this can change any time without warning.

I don't think you'll see Ivy's getting cheaper, Intel doesn't drop the prices of their CPUs, they can afford not to considering they outsell AMD 5 to 1. That being said, most of the benches I've seen of Phenom IIs vs i3s in gaming, the "difference" is purely on paper, actual gameplay its zero.

I can vouch for this with personal experience as my significant other's rig has an i5-2400 ($190 dollar quad core) in it with a GTX 460 vs the rig in my sig they can both play the same games in the same settings.

You may find the boards drop in price as the chipsets go EOL, but not the CPUs. Not to go far off topic, but Jason, you might want to take a look at this article I came across. I found it quite interesting:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1210060/fx8120-vs-2500k-benc...

dunno where you found that looks like setup by amd fanboys as it generally goes against anything and everything that any major tech site will say about the two setups including this site we are all on. each to there own though anyway im not in the mood for an amd vs intel fight i just dont see the point of old mate buying a new mobo and amd cpu!
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:12:04 AM

What kind of budget do you have in mind anyway? I don't think you gave us a dollar amount.
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June 1, 2012 9:13:24 AM

That's nice to know I'm probably gonna do that, but what gpu would you suggest for around 250-300?
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:14:33 AM

jasont78 said:
dunno where you found that looks like setup by amd fanboys as it generally goes against anything and everything that any major tech site will say about the two setups including this this site we are all on. each to there own though anyway im not in the mood for an amd vs intel fight i just dont see the point of old mate buying a new mobo and amd cpu!


Me neither, I thought we were having a pleasant discussion while helping someone find something that fits them. But that article comes complete with screenshots, major tech sites show graphs created with Excel. All of the major tech sites have sponsors, and Intel has FTC and EU fines to prove they've engaged in Anti-trust activities. I'm content to leave it at that, either the guy forged his benches (which seems absurd and elaborate for an individual on a forum being paid by nobody to purchase products and test them), or something else is going on.
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June 1, 2012 9:29:39 AM

nekulturny said:
Me neither, I thought we were having a pleasant discussion while helping someone find something that fits them. But that article comes complete with screenshots, major tech sites show graphs created with Excel. All of the major tech sites have sponsors, and Intel has FCC fines to prove they've engaged in Anti-trust activities. I'm content to leave it at that, either the guy forged his benches (which seems absurd), or something else is going on.

not starting fan boy fight but a devote amd (particularly bulldozer fan boy) will do whatever it takes to make it look good, including forgery, personally i would rather a phen 2 i liked the old school amds. like i said it contradicts everything else out there on the net on sandys vs bulldozer even amd themselves say they are pulling out of the speed race (not that pure cpu speeds everything i do get that!!) besides the guy couldnt even overclock the 2500k past 4.4 wtf i can do 4.3 without even bumping the voltage. yup we'll leave it at that!
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June 1, 2012 9:30:46 AM

With the GTX 570 will I need to get a larger PSU then 600w?
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June 1, 2012 9:33:22 AM

ctorres1211 said:
With the GTX 570 will I need to get a larger PSU then 600w?

no, aslong as you get a decent branded one
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June 1, 2012 9:35:58 AM

So a
1045T Phenom II X6/ Asus Sabertooth 990FX/ SAPPHIRE 7850/ Corsair v2 600w/ 8gig of ram

Will run pretty well for gaming?
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June 1, 2012 9:38:02 AM

ctorres1211 said:
So a
1045T Phenom II X6/ Asus Sabertooth 990FX/ SAPPHIRE 7850/ Corsair v2 600w/ 8gig of ram

Will run pretty well for gaming?

real good so long as you clock it up a bit dont forget a cm 212 so u can do so without frying your cpu
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:38:40 AM

LOL, well like you said, to each their own. But I'm sorry, but until someone tells me those screeshots are photoshopped or otherwise falsified, I'm more inclined to blame a company who has an established history of abusing capitalism's inherent weaknesses to gain an leg up on its competition than an individual who invests their own money into components to test them.

As far as getting a 2500K past 4.4GHZ, ever CPU overclocks differently. This is true for both AMD and Intel, I don't know the issue he was having, but there is no evidence to suggest hes lying. Yes, I know some people can go to great lengths to prove a point, but come on now, thats silly.

Yes the Bulldozers suck at stock speeds, yes their single core performance is dismal, these are things I won't dispute. But I have yet to see a review site that has actually really done in depth overclocking tests such as the ones this guy performed.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:41:02 AM

jasont78 said:
get the 7850 use less power for the same speed ( see im not anti amd, ps i have an amd gpu too, lol!



I never said you were lol. All I ask if you not accuse me of being anti-Intel. I've recommended probably over 100 builds on this forum by now. I don't hide the fact that I am no fan of Intel's business practices, but I'd wager to say that I've recommended as many Intel CPUs as I have AMDs. My personal bias against Intel's methodology notwithstanding. My desire is to help people find a system that lives up to their expectations, without spending more than necessary.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:41:37 AM

ctorres1211 said:
So a
1045T Phenom II X6/ Asus Sabertooth 990FX/ SAPPHIRE 7850/ Corsair v2 600w/ 8gig of ram

Will run pretty well for gaming?

Should do you pretty well yes.
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June 1, 2012 9:53:57 AM

Well thank you for all you guys help, I think I found a happy medium between brandnew and just throw a gpu in. Plus now I can hold off on a top end rig in hopes of AMD rallying on a very good CPU. :)  Thanks Again
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a b B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:54:18 AM

As long as you're overclocking anyway, you might pick up ASUS GPU Tool, even if you're not using an ASUS card. It'll work on any 7850, and it's one of the few tools that let's you tweak the GPU's voltage, and has higher bounds for core/memory clocks.

...the 7850 can take pretty massive overclocks, 40% is common, and some can top 50.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18389...
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:55:11 AM

You're welcome, sorry I got a little off topic there. But hey, we still found something that works for you. That makes it a good day!
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 9:56:16 AM

quilciri said:
As long as you're overclocking anyway, you might pick up ASUS GPU Tool, even if you're not using an ASUS card. It'll work on any 7850, and it's one of the few tools that let's you tweak the GPU's voltage, and has higher bounds for core/memory clocks.

...the 7850 can take pretty massive overclocks, 40% is common, and some can top 50.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18389...


Thats what I had heard, the 7850s were overclocking monsters.
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June 1, 2012 9:58:14 AM

Nah its fine I like good Intel vs AMD arguments, most people I know just try to say AMD will set your house on fire -.- I need to be around smarter people. :p 
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 10:10:10 AM

LOL, well I bounced back and forth on the Bulldozer issue myself, but I'm also a tech student who just completed my first year. I made Dean's List if that helps!

Also, when I talk about "big greedy corporations", for the record I'm a registered Republican, not a Socialist anti-private business liberal. That doesn't mean I won't call foul when I see it.

Such as it is, I think the biggest argument the anti-Bulldozer crowd had against it was that they were too expensive. They're right, considering the 2500K is $220 bucks and FX 8 cores were closer to $300 along with the fact that stock vs stock the results aren't exactly impressive, this is no longer true.

You can pick up an FX-8120 these days for $170 bucks pair it with a $35 CoolerMaster 212 Evo, at that price point its a better buy than the 2500K or the more expensive Ivy Bridge 3570K ( Intel promised would have a 20% improvement over Sandy, which turns out to barely be 6%)
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June 1, 2012 10:15:15 AM

I heard the fx4170 is the best AMD gaming CPU, How accurate is that?
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 10:21:21 AM

I'm not sure honestly. I've seen review sites say the FX 4s have no difference in games from the 6 and 8 cores in their gaming benchmarks, but then again, considering most games still only use 2 cores, thats not particularly surprising.

I'd say I guess that since like I said, the 8120 is twice the CPU in terms of cores and threads and currently its only priced about 30 bucks more than the FX-4170, the 8120 would be worth the extra money.
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a b B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 4:03:28 PM

Unless you know you're going to be using heavily multithreaded apps, and fx-6 or 8 won't benefit you much.

There wouldn't be a difference between the 4170 and it's 6 or 8 core equivalent, but there is no 6 or 8 core equivalent of that chip.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-o...

The 4170 is equivalent to a 975/980 black as far as gaming. It's also a different chip than the 4100 (125w part vs. a 95w part). overclocking the 4100 tops out at around 4.6-4.7 ghz, they 4170 can hit 5.1-5.2.

Have fun!
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June 1, 2012 7:20:58 PM

Now to hope the sabertooth 990fx open box i ordered isn't a dud and has a I/O shield :) 
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 1, 2012 7:56:11 PM

If it is, newegg should take care of it. But I can say fully functional a Sabertooth is an awesome board.
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June 1, 2012 8:17:29 PM

Yea the reviews I read said it was awesome so i took the chance with the openbox.
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September 19, 2012 6:15:44 PM

nekulturny said:
Okay.. well for the price you're willing to pay for that board, you could do better.

Open Box Asus Sabertooth 990FX (HELL OF A DEAL- I have one of these as you can tell by my sig, Asus will honor the warranty on open box items as I understand it, and it comes with 5 year standard)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Or if you want the piece of mind of a new in box, you could go with this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



Just wanted to throw this out there but after calling ASUS about buying an open-box MB on newegg.com, I was told that the manufacturer's warranty is only valid on "New" products. An "open-box" product would be considered "Used" and would therefore only be subject to a 90-day warranty. /shrug
But I could also hardly understand the guy with his accent so who knows for sure. (I'd certainly love to know)
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
September 19, 2012 8:02:44 PM

I would ask for a supervisor, I asked them before about it and they said they honor it. I can tell you because I worked in a call center briefly, most of these people, American or offshore probably don't even work for Asus, they work for some 3rd party company and they basically read off a script. They may not actually know what the policy is. Maybe the guy named "Michael" with a suspiciously non-Anglo Saxon accent I spoke to had it wrong, maybe your guy Joseph has it wrong. Or maybe Asus decided to penny pinch and changed the policy.

Although, the entire problem could be avoided by not telling them you bought it as an open box in the first place. They ask for the serial number, give them the serial number. I don't think they'll refuse the warranty regardless, just because its "used" doesn't mean its past their 5 year warranty period, someone could have bought it, opened it, decided they didn't want it for whatever reason and returned it. Thats usually the case with Newegg open box deals.
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