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Canon 20D focus problem

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Anonymous
July 18, 2005 11:01:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
hoping for better freeze capture.
Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
Thanks,
Fluffo
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 11:38:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Thanks for the helpful input. I try your suggestions.

Fluffo
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 1:39:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

If you use Tv, you must set the shutter speed to what you want to use,
then the camera automatically sets the lens aperture to suit -- IF it
can! Perhaps you used too high of a shutter speed for the ISO which
was set, and the amount of ambient light was too little for the maximum
f/stop which is available on the lens in use. So the camera opens the
lens all the way, but that is still TOO LITTLE light for a proper
exposure to have been made.

Solution...verify for the shutter speed selected that the camera's
choice of aperture is large enough. And if it isn't, try A) setting to
a high ISO, or B) resort to the use of flash, or C) use a slower
shutter speed.
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Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:10:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

2 thoughts come to mind:

1. ISO is set too low to allow you to use the shutter speed you want in Tv
mode.
2. The lens you are using is not fast enough to allow the amount of light
needed to keep it from going into the shadows.

As you were shooting, did you notice what the aperature and shutter settings
were and at what ISO you were shooting? Also the lens info can be of help
as well to determine if you were pushing it to the limits of what it can do.

In some cases, in order to get the shutter speed I needed (1/8000) I either
had to change the ISO to 1600 or change out the lens to one that at least
could do f2.8

You also need to monitor the exposure meter to see if its on 0 or has dipped
down to -2 or is even flashing. Flahsing tells you, you are outside the
range or exposure that will produce a decent photo.

In some cases, using Adbobe, you can recover the exposure and brightness as
long as they are not too far down in the shadows. In that case if you try to
bring up the brightness or exposure you risk bringing in more noise
(luminance and color)


<qstguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121695306.121429.77230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
> creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
> thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
> compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
> speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
> hoping for better freeze capture.
> Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
> Thanks,
> Fluffo
>
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 5:36:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Good luck freezing the wings, even at 1/8000.
Eric's flash suggestions will get you closer, assuming you can get
enough light on the bird. But even then, you'll end up with a black
background as if it was a night photo.

Better to just concentrate on getting a nice uncluttered background and
leave a bit of blur in the wings.

http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/33165823
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 6:13:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

qstguy@yahoo.com wrote:
> In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
> creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
> thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
> compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
> speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
> hoping for better freeze capture.
> Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
> Thanks,
> Fluffo
>
Hi,
Read manual. Some can't be adjusted while in TV mode.
Tony
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 6:19:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<qstguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121695306.121429.77230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
> creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
> thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
> compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
> speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
> hoping for better freeze capture.
> Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
> Thanks,
> Fluffo
>

Get a flash. You need more light. BTW, the highest shutter speed on the
camera will not do a consistently good job of freezing a hummingbird's
wings, even if there is enough light available to properly expose at the
selected shutter speed. You can solve this by using a flash duration of less
than 1/10,000 of a second by using multiple flashes on low power. If you
don't mind a little blur in the wings, get a flash extender, like a Better
Beamer, and use a Canon 580ex on the high speed sync setting with a shutter
speed of 1/1000 or 1/1600. See my hummingbird galleries at the following
site for examples of freeaing a hummingbird's wings. Look in the
"Portrait's" gallery first. Some of the photos around the mimosas were taken
using the high speed sync plus extender method.

<http://www.dyesscreek.com/miscellaneous_pages/hummingbi...;

Eric Miller
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 6:37:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Eric Miller wrote:
> <qstguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121695306.121429.77230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put
>> the creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to
>> black. I thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the
>> aperture
>> would compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower
>> shutter speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode.
>> I was hoping for better freeze capture.
>> Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing
>> properly?
>> Thanks,
>> Fluffo
>>
>
> Get a flash. You need more light. BTW, the highest shutter speed on
> the camera will not do a consistently good job of freezing a
> hummingbird's wings, even if there is enough light available to
> properly expose at the selected shutter speed. You can solve this by
> using a flash duration of less than 1/10,000 of a second by using
> multiple flashes on low power. If you don't mind a little blur in
> the
> wings, get a flash extender, like a Better Beamer, and use a Canon
> 580ex on the high speed sync setting with a shutter speed of 1/1000
> or 1/1600. See my hummingbird galleries at the following site for
> examples of freeaing a hummingbird's wings. Look in the "Portrait's"
> gallery first. Some of the photos around the mimosas were taken
> using
> the high speed sync plus extender method.
>
> <http://www.dyesscreek.com/miscellaneous_pages/hummingbi...;
>

Very good hummingbird pictures. I continue to attempt such captures,
with infrequent success.

Here are three that come close:
http://www.fototime.com/D0211BB755D7396/orig.jpg 1/2500
http://www.fototime.com/1954BEC64DA5D3E/orig.jpg 1/2500
http://www.fototime.com/D96B35510A78B29/orig.jpg 1/1000

All from a 20D Canon, Canon 70-300 EF lens, shutter priority.

--
Frank ess
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 5:03:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1121695306.121429.77230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
qstguy@yahoo.com writes
>In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
>creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
>thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
>compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
>speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
>hoping for better freeze capture.
>Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
>Thanks,
>Fluffo
>
Good suggestions from others.

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the possibility that the camera's
exposure metering is being fooled by backlighting. If you take photos of
a relatively small object against a bright background - usually the sky,
but anything white or pale coloured - then any reflected light meter
(all cameras and most hand-held meters) will try to some extent to meter
the sky to grey. Thus the darker object (bird, plane, whatever) will
come out very dark.

In the absence of a flash, here is what I would do: Set a high ISO speed
- try 800 or even 1600. Set camera in Av (aperture priority mode) at
f/5.6; this will give you the fastest shutter speed you can get at a
reasonable aperture. (If you have a top-end L lens with f/2.8, you may
get away with this of f/4). Then dial in say +1.5 stops of compensation
(RTFM if necessary). Take photos and see if the bird comes out
reasonably exposed. Experiment with the compensation to see if +1 or +2
gives a better result, etc.

I don't think the camera flash will do a very good job in this
circumstance, but it might be worth a try. The great beauty of a DSLR is
that you get to do all this with no wasted film cost, and with instant
feedback on the results!

David
--
David Littlewood
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 5:03:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Good note Dave. I did not consider the ambient lighting fooling the auto
exposure . Obviously if the background is light, kick up the EC +1 as a
start.


"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:o SGgq3KPNE3CFwuW@dlittlewood.co.uk...
> In article <1121695306.121429.77230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> qstguy@yahoo.com writes
>>In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
>>creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
>>thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
>>compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
>>speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
>>hoping for better freeze capture.
>>Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
>>Thanks,
>>Fluffo
>>
> Good suggestions from others.
>
> One thing I have not seen mentioned is the possibility that the camera's
> exposure metering is being fooled by backlighting. If you take photos of a
> relatively small object against a bright background - usually the sky, but
> anything white or pale coloured - then any reflected light meter (all
> cameras and most hand-held meters) will try to some extent to meter the
> sky to grey. Thus the darker object (bird, plane, whatever) will come out
> very dark.
>
> In the absence of a flash, here is what I would do: Set a high ISO speed -
> try 800 or even 1600. Set camera in Av (aperture priority mode) at f/5.6;
> this will give you the fastest shutter speed you can get at a reasonable
> aperture. (If you have a top-end L lens with f/2.8, you may get away with
> this of f/4). Then dial in say +1.5 stops of compensation (RTFM if
> necessary). Take photos and see if the bird comes out reasonably exposed.
> Experiment with the compensation to see if +1 or +2 gives a better result,
> etc.
>
> I don't think the camera flash will do a very good job in this
> circumstance, but it might be worth a try. The great beauty of a DSLR is
> that you get to do all this with no wasted film cost, and with instant
> feedback on the results!
>
> David
> --
> David Littlewood
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 12:58:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Eric Miller" <millerericnospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:ZhTCe.87494$Tt.2162@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> <qstguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121695306.121429.77230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > In attempting to freeze the wings of a hummingbird in flight, I put the
> > creative focus in Tv mode. All of my shots were very dark to black. I
> > thought I could dial up the shutter speed and the aperture would
> > compensate. It appears the the Tv mode when set to a slower shutter
> > speed provides a shot that is about the same as the P mode. I was
> > hoping for better freeze capture.
> > Can anyone provide some good feedback on what I'm not doing properly?
> > Thanks,
> > Fluffo
> >
>
> Get a flash. You need more light. BTW, the highest shutter speed on the
> camera will not do a consistently good job of freezing a hummingbird's
> wings, even if there is enough light available to properly expose at the
> selected shutter speed. You can solve this by using a flash duration of
less
> than 1/10,000 of a second by using multiple flashes on low power. If you
> don't mind a little blur in the wings, get a flash extender, like a Better
> Beamer, and use a Canon 580ex on the high speed sync setting with a
shutter
> speed of 1/1000 or 1/1600. See my hummingbird galleries at the following
> site for examples of freeaing a hummingbird's wings. Look in the
> "Portrait's" gallery first. Some of the photos around the mimosas were
taken
> using the high speed sync plus extender method.
>
> <http://www.dyesscreek.com/miscellaneous_pages/hummingbi...;
>
> Eric Miller
>
>

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that even with a flash extender you will be
limited to an effective distance of about 20 feet for a hummingbird that is
in the shade. Any further and you still won't have enough flash output for
the high shutter speeds.

Eric Miller
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 5:19:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ed Velez wrote:
> Good note Dave. I did not consider the ambient lighting fooling the auto
> exposure . Obviously if the background is light, kick up the EC +1 as a
> start.
>
Also, set the focus to manual. Switch is on the lens.

--
John McWilliams
!