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Canon 20D Question

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July 22, 2005 3:04:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the Raw
file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I can
use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?

Thanks for your time

More about : canon 20d question

Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:14:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>Ron writes ...
>
>Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw
>and no Tiff.

Tiff is about 3x larger than RAW and takes time to process, slowing
down the camera and consuming too much space on the memory cards. They
made the right decision :) 

>If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
>from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the
>Raw file?

You need to use the Canon software (or better 3rd party software like
RSE or Capture One) to convert the RAW to tiff and then you can open
the tiff in Photoshop 7 and work on it there.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>There was a paid-for extra raw plugin for PS7, the original
>version 1 of ACR which is no longer available - but I don't
>think it supported cameras as relatively new as the 300D,
>but perhaps it did.

It supported the D60. You could hack the file with a binary editor to
get it to support the 10D but the colors weren't right. It doesn't
support the 20D or the 300D or similar ...
Related resources
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Anonymous
July 22, 2005 5:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

RON wrote:

> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
> no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
> from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the Raw
> file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I can
> use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?
>
> Thanks for your time

I think it's just a memory thing.. Either that or
Canon has no time for TIFF because I don't think
any current models support it.

8 bit TIFF files on the 20D would be around 25 megabytes
each.. If you wanted 16 bit TIFF, they'd be over 40 Mb
each.

I don't think Photoshop7 supports Canon RAW.

You still can convert your RAW files to TIFF using the supplied
Canon software (It's on the CD that came with your camera).

Eos Viewer Utility (EVU) is the standard.. You may
also have Digital Photo Professional (DPP).. If it's
not on your software disk, you can download it from
Canon.

I think you can convert in batches so you can download
a whole card full of pictures and convert them at
one swipe. There is third party software you can use as
well. (Capture one.. etc)
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 8:13:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

RON wrote:
> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
> no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
> from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the Raw
> file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I can
> use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?
>
> Thanks for your time

I have a D70S (6MP) and my work flow is to shoot in NEF (Nikon's RAW),
and view and tweak exposure and maybe slight color adjustments in
RawShooter essentials 2005, free at www.pixmantec.com - an AWESOME and
simple editor. After the initial tweaks, I specified that RSE convert
the NEF/RAW file to TIFF (16 bit) in Photoshop 7, which is practically
a seamless maneuver. Then I work it down as I see fit - size/color
adjustments/curves/filters -> 8 bit JPG...for web mostly.

HTH,

Ben
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 8:16:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

RON wrote:
> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
> no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
> from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the Raw
> file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I can
> use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?
>
> Thanks for your time

I have a D70S (6MP) and my work flow is to shoot in NEF (Nikon's RAW -
5.2MB), and view and tweak exposure and maybe slight color adjustments
in RawShooter essentials 2005, free at www.pixmantec.com - an AWESOME
and simple editor. After the initial tweaks, I specified that RSE
convert the NEF/RAW file to TIFF (16 bit, 34.9MB, 3000x2000) in
Photoshop 7, which is practically a seamless maneuver. Then I work it
down as I see fit - size/color adjustments/curves/filters -> 8 bit
JPG...for web mostly.

HTH,

Ben
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 8:18:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sorry for the double/triple post - I caught the first one at the last
sec, and wanted to include the TIFF file size...
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 10:17:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"RON" <joycegolf@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:vfqdnVDJq-W1qHzfRVn-jw@adelphia.com...
> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw
> and no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to
> transfer from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work
> on the Raw file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the
> only way I can use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use
> the Photoshop 7 ?

CS1 (v7) will not read 20D raw file, AFAIK. You will need to use Canon
software to convert before you can open in CS v7. No in-camera TIF. Upgrade
software to CS2 or downgrade camera to 300D or 10D, or side-grade(?) to 1D.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 10:46:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Jim Townsend" <not@real.address> wrote in message
news:11e2f62t41fm9e0@news.supernews.com...
> RON wrote:
>
>> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw
>> and
>> no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to
>> transfer
>> from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the
>> Raw
>> file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I
>> can
>> use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop
>> 7 ?
>>
>> Thanks for your time
>
> I think it's just a memory thing.. Either that or
> Canon has no time for TIFF because I don't think
> any current models support it.
>
> 8 bit TIFF files on the 20D would be around 25 megabytes
> each.. If you wanted 16 bit TIFF, they'd be over 40 Mb
> each.
>
> I don't think Photoshop7 supports Canon RAW.

It works great for older cameras, like the Canon 300D, 10D and 1D, with the
Adobe plug-in, if you can still find it (did they really pull it off
adobe.com?).

> You still can convert your RAW files to TIFF using the supplied
> Canon software (It's on the CD that came with your camera).
>
> Eos Viewer Utility (EVU) is the standard.. You may
> also have Digital Photo Professional (DPP).. If it's
> not on your software disk, you can download it from
> Canon.

For DPP you have to find a friend with the full version. DPP versions for
download from Canon are only "update" versions.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 11:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

RON wrote:
> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
> no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
> from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the Raw
> file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I can
> use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?
>
> Thanks for your time


The Canon software is quite good. You use it to convert RAW to TIFF and
then work with Photoshop. TIFF makes no sense for dSLR. Also, you may
try RAW Shooter Essential which is highly praised. It's free at this moment.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 11:50:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote in message
news:W9bEe.5254$p%3.29805@typhoon.sonic.net...
>

>
> For DPP you have to find a friend with the full version. DPP versions for
> download from Canon are only "update" versions.
>
DPP was included with my 20D. Works great!
--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 12:01:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:17:01 GMT, "Dave R knows who"
<kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote:
>CS1 (v7) will not read 20D raw file, AFAIK.

Nitpick: CS is V8, not v7 ;-)

--
Regards

John Bean
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 12:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:46:14 GMT, "Dave R knows who"
<kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote:
>> I don't think Photoshop7 supports Canon RAW.
>
>It works great for older cameras, like the Canon 300D, 10D and 1D, with the
>Adobe plug-in, if you can still find it (did they really pull it off
>adobe.com?).

There was a paid-for extra raw plugin for PS7, the original
version 1 of ACR which is no longer available - but I don't
think it supported cameras as relatively new as the 300D,
but perhaps it did. The first "free" ACR was 2.x, which will
work only with CS (PS8) or PSE3. In particular it won't work
with PS7.

--
Regards

John Bean
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 12:08:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

John Bean wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:46:14 GMT, "Dave R knows who"
> <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote:
>>> I don't think Photoshop7 supports Canon RAW.
>>
>> It works great for older cameras, like the Canon 300D, 10D and 1D,
>> with the Adobe plug-in, if you can still find it (did they really
>> pull it off adobe.com?).
>
> There was a paid-for extra raw plugin for PS7, the original
> version 1 of ACR which is no longer available - but I don't
> think it supported cameras as relatively new as the 300D,
> but perhaps it did. The first "free" ACR was 2.x, which will
> work only with CS (PS8) or PSE3. In particular it won't work
> with PS7.

There is a free converter here:

http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials...

David
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 1:43:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"RON" <joycegolf@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:vfqdnVDJq-W1qHzfRVn-jw@adelphia.com...
> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw
> and no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to
> transfer from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work
> on the Raw file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the
> only way I can use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use
> the Photoshop 7 ?
>
> Thanks for your time
>
>

You can use the software that came with it to convert from Raw to either
tiff or jpg, most people prefer PSCS or another 3rd party solution because
they're more flexible. Canon doesn't offer a tiff option because of the
file sized - shot to shot time would be very long, file sizes would be huge.

Mark
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 3:27:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"John Bean" <waterfoot@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:amg2e1tae1vps7vlmt8dgehu04lnqnp7tc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:46:14 GMT, "Dave R knows who"
> <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote:
>>> I don't think Photoshop7 supports Canon RAW.
>>
>>It works great for older cameras, like the Canon 300D, 10D and 1D, with
>>the
>>Adobe plug-in, if you can still find it (did they really pull it off
>>adobe.com?).
>
> There was a paid-for extra raw plugin for PS7, the original
> version 1 of ACR which is no longer available - but I don't
> think it supported cameras as relatively new as the 300D,
> but perhaps it did. The first "free" ACR was 2.x, which will
> work only with CS (PS8) or PSE3. In particular it won't work
> with PS7.
>
Brain fart. I was thinking PS7 is CS1. PS8 is CS1. Doh!
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 3:33:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:13:56 GMT, "David J Taylor"
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid>
wrote:

>John Bean wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:46:14 GMT, "Dave R knows who"
>> <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't think Photoshop7 supports Canon RAW.
>>>
>>> It works great for older cameras, like the Canon 300D, 10D and 1D,
>>> with the Adobe plug-in, if you can still find it (did they really
>>> pull it off adobe.com?).
>>
>> There was a paid-for extra raw plugin for PS7, the original
>> version 1 of ACR which is no longer available - but I don't
>> think it supported cameras as relatively new as the 300D,
>> but perhaps it did. The first "free" ACR was 2.x, which will
>> work only with CS (PS8) or PSE3. In particular it won't work
>> with PS7.
>
>There is a free converter here:
>
> http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials...
>

I know David, but we were discussing plug-ins for PS7...

--
Regards

John Bean
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 3:34:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 22 Jul 2005 12:16:54 -0700, "Bill Hilton"
<bhilton665@aol.com> wrote:

>>There was a paid-for extra raw plugin for PS7, the original
>>version 1 of ACR which is no longer available - but I don't
>>think it supported cameras as relatively new as the 300D,
>>but perhaps it did.
>
>It supported the D60. You could hack the file with a binary editor to
>get it to support the 10D but the colors weren't right. It doesn't
>support the 20D or the 300D or similar ...


Thank you, that confirms my slightly hazy recollection...
PS7 seems so long ago ;-)

--
Regards

John Bean
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 11:50:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

John Bean wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:13:56 GMT, "David J Taylor"
[]
>> http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials...
>>
>
> I know David, but we were discussing plug-ins for PS7...

RSE seem to be what other people are recommending though. I hope it can
be made to work the PS7 even if not as a plug-in.

David
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 12:12:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"l e o" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote:
> RON wrote:
>> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw
>> and no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to
>> transfer from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work
>> on the Raw file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the
>> only way I can use them is in the Raw mode.

RAW mode is the right thing. RAW files are smaller than TIFFs and hold more
information.

>> And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?

By using RSE (Raw Shooter Essentials).

> The Canon software is quite good. You use it to convert RAW to TIFF and
> then work with Photoshop. TIFF makes no sense for dSLR. Also, you may try
> RAW Shooter Essential which is highly praised. It's free at this moment.

RAW Shooter Essentials should remain free: they're planning on not adding
features to it, but rather coming out with a high-end version that
incorporates the things users ask for.

And it's worlds better than the Canon software. It's a real pleasure to use.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 07:50:43 GMT, "David J Taylor"
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid>
wrote:

>John Bean wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:13:56 GMT, "David J Taylor"
>[]
>>> http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials...
>>>
>>
>> I know David, but we were discussing plug-ins for PS7...
>
>RSE seem to be what other people are recommending though. I hope it can
>be made to work the PS7 even if not as a plug-in.

Just me being pedantic. RSE seems to have its fans, probably
because it's free :-)

Seeing as it's a stand-alone then you can - of course - use
any editor you want on the resulting file.

As a side note the authors have chosen to use specific CPU
features which means a lot of AMD users (like me) can't use
it at all.

--
Regards

John Bean
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:51:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <vfqdnVDJq-W1qHzfRVn-jw@adelphia.com>,
"RON" <joycegolf@adelphia.net> wrote:

> Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
> no Tiff. If I shoot in the Raw mode and use the Canon software to transfer
> from camera to computer can I then go to my Photoshop 7 and work on the Raw
> file? I guess What I am saying is now that I have 8 Megs the only way I can
> use them is in the Raw mode. And if I do that how do I use the Photoshop 7 ?
>
> Thanks for your time

No problem at all if you use Photoshop CS or CS 2. Since you use an
older version of Photoshop, you'll need to buy a plug-in to read the raw
image files. You might want to upgrade to Photoshop CS 2 though. Either
way, you don't even need Canon's software to do this. You can simply
drag the raw images off the camera or CF card to a folder on your
computer's hard drive and then open the images up with Photoshop.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 5:15:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

John Bean wrote:
[]
>>>> http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials...
[]
> As a side note the authors have chosen to use specific CPU
> features which means a lot of AMD users (like me) can't use
> it at all.

That bug was fixed some time ago. Perhaps you might now take another
look?

Cheers,
David
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 11:08:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"John Bean" <waterfoot@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>RSE seem to be what other people are recommending though. I hope it can
>>be made to work the PS7 even if not as a plug-in.
>
> Just me being pedantic. RSE seems to have its fans, probably
> because it's free :-)

And it's fast, easy to use, and produces better images than the non-free
program I was using previously.

> Seeing as it's a stand-alone then you can - of course - use
> any editor you want on the resulting file.
>
> As a side note the authors have chosen to use specific CPU
> features which means a lot of AMD users (like me) can't use
> it at all.

My understanding is that they fixed that very early on.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 4:49:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In message <vfqdnVDJq-W1qHzfRVn-jw@adelphia.com>,
"RON" <joycegolf@adelphia.net> wrote:

>Just bought a Canon 20D and am wondering why they only have Jpeg and Raw and
>no Tiff.

TIFF is a very inefficient format.

An 8MP camera's HQ JPEGs are about 3 MB, RAW, about 8 MB, and an 8-bit
TIFF would be about 25 MB. When you compare them in terms of containing
accurate information, the inefficiency becomes apparent:



lowest quality <-------------------------------------> highest quality
LQ MQ HQ 8-bit RAW
----JPEGS---- TIFF


The only difference between what an 8-bit TIFF would be and what a HQ
JPEG is, is that the TIFF has no compression. It still would not
contain all of the detail of the RAW data.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 4:51:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In message <uv34e1hjaip4o4bvgc7q3h8i18phisfoku@4ax.com>,
John Bean <waterfoot@gmail.com> wrote:

>As a side note the authors have chosen to use specific CPU
>features which means a lot of AMD users (like me) can't use
>it at all.

Runs fine on my dual Athlon MP system with WindowsXP.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:45:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"John Bean" <waterfoot@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:D jg2e190efuj71u0meubkidp32g4fs1qj2@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:17:01 GMT, "Dave R knows who"
> <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote:
>>CS1 (v7) will not read 20D raw file, AFAIK.
>
> Nitpick: CS is V8, not v7 ;-)
>
> --
Yep, I really blew that one. Oops!
!