yeah, i hear what ya saying, but for me i generally use headphones, and loud for music, and i really did notice a difference, im not saying the onboard was bad, it was very capable, but for example, you cant adjust the bass or treble in the windows sound configuration panel, perhaps if you could force it to be less tinny i wouldnt mind, but on normal volumes the onboard was certainly very capable, i just wanted more... lol