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Pc for programming

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June 25, 2012 6:36:37 AM

Hi,

I need to get a new computer. It will be used mainly for programming (c/c++, java, python, possibly Android ndk), and the occasional movie. I would like it to be relatively "future proof"/easy to upgrade, support 2 monitors and be able to run a VM smoothly. I'm not very big on games.
My budget is 500$, and I already have monitors, keyboard, mouse, and OS (win7 proffesional).

I was thinking of basing it on a core i5-3450, H77 based mobo, and use the iGPU. Is this a good idea?

Thanks!

ETA:

I found http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261222-31-build-advic..., so I'll add the info:

Approximate Purchase Date: this week, maybe next

the budget is 500$ without rebates

I don't plan on overclocking or using sli/crossfire,

I'll be purchasing in Israel, so I gave the 500$ budget after approximating the price differences between here and the US.

Monitor resolution: 1080p

More about : programming

a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 25, 2012 6:52:56 AM

That wouldn't be bad, but as far as future proof, the Ivy Bridge is the final stop for LGA1155, so my advice would be to get the best CPU you can afford if you're worried about upgrading the CPU (since starting next year Intel will be on the LGA11550 for their Haswell CPUs) If you can afford an i7 go for that.

To run a dual monitor you will ideally want a discrete graphics card, they make adapters fo power a 2nd monitor via USB, but the integrated graphics really doesn't have the muscle to drive 2 monitors. By 2012 standards, the HD4000 graphics are not all that impressive, adequate for a single monitor and light games, but thats about it.

I'd suggest a Radeon 7770, 6850, GTX 550 TI, or maybe a GTX460, something along those lines.
June 25, 2012 7:08:50 AM

I'm sure the iGPU will be fine for dual monitors. The HD 4000 supports up to 3 monitors.
Related resources
June 25, 2012 7:33:17 AM

You don't need an adapter.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 25, 2012 7:35:36 AM

lycros said:
You don't need an adapter.

What are you going to hook the second monitor up to then? I apologize if I'm missing something obvious, but the motherboard usually will only have 1 DVI/VGA outlet.
June 25, 2012 7:37:48 AM

1 DVI 1 VGA thats 2, other boards come with HDMI and Display port
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 25, 2012 7:38:24 AM

Ah okay, then nvm then lol.
June 25, 2012 7:42:00 AM

Even the cheapest H61 on newegg supports dual monitor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Quote:
Dual Monitor Feature
This motherboard supports dual monitor feature. With the internal
port (DVI-D and D-Sub), you can easily enjoy the benefi ts of dual m
without installing any add-on VGA card to this motherboard. This m
provides independent display controllers for DVI-D and D-Sub to s
output so that DVI-D and D-sub can drive same or different display
To enable dual monitor feature, please follow the below steps:
from their manual
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b C Monitor
June 25, 2012 7:44:30 AM

as a suggestion:
Intel Core i7-3770 $319.99
ASRock B75M $74.99
G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) $104.99
TOTAL $499.97
i am thinking that if you are running several VMs at once you will benefit from the hyper threading of an i7. to be able to fit that in your budget i chose a B75 board that is geared toward the office desktop user. the only problem with that is being a micro ATX form factor it has only 2 DIMM slots for ram. so the 16gig set would be the largest amount supported. if you are running 3 machines @ 4gig each that will still allow you 4 gigs for the host OS.

you could choose to get an i5 and a bigger board with more RAM if you think the VMs will need more.
Intel Core i5-3450 $199.99
ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP $94.99
G.SKILL Ares Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) $219.99
TOTAL $514.97or $399.99 with the 16 gigs of RAM.
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 25, 2012 7:46:33 AM

I believe you lol. I'm in a hotel room in Minnesota currently, my H61 is about 1200 miles East or I would have stuck my head behind it.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b C Monitor
June 25, 2012 7:49:59 AM

nekulturny said:
I believe you lol. I'm in a hotel room in Minnesota currently, my H61 is about 1200 miles East or I would have stuck my head behind it.

its 3:50 am now, where are you sticking your behind in some motel room at this time?
:sarcastic: 
a c 118 B Homebuilt system
June 25, 2012 7:58:49 AM

lol, I wish! Unfortunately I've been sharing a room with my mother, nothing exciting goin on there. She has some health problems so shes going to the Mayo Clinic up here, basically Dr. House irl so it seems.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b C Monitor
June 25, 2012 8:06:50 AM

nekulturny said:
lol, I wish! Unfortunately I've been sharing a room with my mother, nothing exciting goin on there. She has some health problems so shes going to the Mayo Clinic up here, basically Dr. House irl so it seems.

i'll keep her in my thoughts and hope it turns out well.
June 25, 2012 8:51:08 AM

naftag said:
I'll be purchasing in Israel, so I gave the 500$ budget after approximating the price differences between here and the US.

I assume that means you'll be purchasing from a local store, then? Or would you be ordering from an international retailer? For now, I'll just assume that you'll be getting parts locally. Something to consider (based off your idea):

CPU - Intel i5-3450 ~$200
Mobo - ASRock H77 Pro4M ~$90
RAM - 8GB DDR3-1600 (2x4GB) ~45
HDD - Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7200RPM ~80
ODD - ASUS DRW-24 ~20
Case - NZXT Source 210 ~40
PSU - Corsair CX430-V2 ~45
Total ~$515

I'm not sure how much memory you'll want for running VMs, though I'd imagine for running one (maybe two) 8GB would be enough. If not, you could simply ignore the dual-channel nature of LGA1155 and get an extra 2x4GB kit (the motherboard has 4 DIMM slots). You could also drop some money off the PSU and get something a little more affordable, but that would definitely limit upgrading headroom. Alternatively:

CPU - Intel i3-2100 ~$115
Mobo - ASRock H77 Pro4M ~$90
RAM - 8GB DDR3-1600 (2x4GB) ~45
GPU - Radeon HD 6670 DDR3 ~75
HDD - Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7200RPM ~80
ODD - ASUS DRW-24 ~20
Case - NZXT Source 210 ~40
PSU - Corsair CX430-V2 ~45
Total ~$505

Alternatively:

CPU - Intel i3-2105 ~$135 (The 2105 has the more powerful HD3000 video chipset over the 2100's HD2000)
Mobo - ASRock H77 Pro4M ~$90
RAM - 16GB DDR3-1600 (2x6GB) ~115
HDD - Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7200RPM ~80
ODD - ASUS DRW-24 ~20
Case - NZXT Source 210 ~40
PSU - Corsair CX430-V2 ~45
Total ~$520

Obviously prices on some of these things vary, especially depending on where you get them from.
June 26, 2012 6:19:00 AM

mousseng said:
I assume that means you'll be purchasing from a local store, then? Or would you be ordering from an international retailer?


yes, I'll be purchasing from a local store.

mousseng said:


Alternatively:

CPU - Intel i3-2105 ~$135 (The 2105 has the more powerful HD3000 video chipset over the 2100's HD2000)


I tried to find information about the different HD iGPUs, but couldn't actually find any benchmarks. Is there really a noticable difference between the HD200, HD3000 and HD4000?

@looniam
Quote:
as a suggestion:
Intel Core i7-3770 $319.99
ASRock B75M $74.99
G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) $104.99
TOTAL $499.97


I wish I could afford that. However, I also need a new case, HDD, optical drive and PSU (my old computer is really old :) )


Thanks!
June 26, 2012 7:36:23 AM

If you're not going to be gaming, I'm guessing there won't be too much of a difference between the iGPU.

How much HDD space do you need?
June 26, 2012 8:08:49 AM

There's very few benchmarks and not a whole lot of differences between 2k and 3k, however depending on what it's being used for HD3k is between ~20-50% faster than HD2k. How much of a difference that might make in your case, I'm not sure. If that's the particular build you find the most appealing, you could switch the i3-2105 to the -2120 for a lovely bump in clock speed and save ~$10-15 (the 2120 is between $5 and $10 more than the 2100).
June 26, 2012 8:56:57 AM

lycros said:

How much HDD space do you need?


I think 500GB is more than enough for me. I gather that's the "standard" size these days.

mousseng said:
There's very few benchmarks and not a whole lot of differences between 2k and 3k, however depending on what it's being used for HD3k is between ~20-50% faster than HD2k. How much of a difference that might make in your case, I'm not sure. If that's the particular build you find the most appealing, you could switch the i3-2105 to the -2120 for a lovely bump in clock speed and save ~$10-15 (the 2120 is between $5 and $10 more than the 2100).


Actually, I'm more in the direction of the i5 based system, but also there a ~20$ addition will get the -3570k which has hd4k nistead of the hd2.5k.
the i3 somehow sounds to me abit too low end. Do you think it can handle multi-tasking and VMing well enough?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b C Monitor
June 26, 2012 5:07:26 PM

naftag said:

@looniam
Quote:
as a suggestion:
Intel Core i7-3770 $319.99
ASRock B75M $74.99
G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) $104.99
TOTAL $499.97


I wish I could afford that. However, I also need a new case, HDD, optical drive and PSU (my old computer is really old :) )


Thanks!


sorry i don't know why i thought you just needed a cpu board and ram . . actually i completely misread your post and thought you'd be running several machines, silly me.

the Intel i5-3450 that mousseng suggested will meet your needs. i like it, a ivy bridge cpu and H77 chipset; which will give you a multi monitor set up (with the video outputs of the motherboard) and handle running a VM smoothly (with a quadcore).

as a whole it will be fine. i prefer WD black HDs but thats me, you may want to in the future get a bigger 1 terabyte if you are storing a few different VMs and installing several more applications that are taking up space. btw, any difference between HD 2000/3000 is strictly on a gaming level as as far as desktop applications it is a non issue.

cheers.
June 26, 2012 8:19:08 PM

naftag said:
Actually, I'm more in the direction of the i5 based system, but also there a ~20$ addition will get the -3570k which has hd4k nistead of the hd2.5k.
the i3 somehow sounds to me abit too low end. Do you think it can handle multi-tasking and VMing well enough?

Well, the i3 is a very solid chip that easily outperforms many recent quad-cores - partly due to the fact that it's got Hyperthreading, which effectively turns each core into two separate cores (one physical, one virtual). It's obviously not as powerful as a true quad-core, and the 3450/3570k are significantly more powerful - but it's still a great processor.

At this point I'll ask you whether running VMs would benefit more from a more powerful CPU or more RAM; I would imagine it'd be the CPU, which is also the more "future proof" solution of the two (although future-proofing really isn't possible). If you can bump your budget up an extra $30 or so, I'd say go for the 3570k + a Z75 or Z77 board like an MSI Z77A-G43 ($100), Biostar TZ77B ($90), or an ASRock Z77 Pro3 ($100). These are all Newegg prices, so local pricing may vary, but these are quality budget boards that allow overclocking.
!