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AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture - Page 4

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a b à CPUs
November 16, 2012 9:37:33 PM

I don't really want AMD to get out of the desktop market and don't think it needs to either.

Regardless of what jdwii keeps on saying about AMD's desktop generalities. (To me what he is saying doesn't make good sense, although I understand what he has said, and said multiple times, I do not agree with it.) I am buying an APU for me and my mom, and maybe my sister. I'm sure lots of other people will buy AMD for different reasons. Desktop market is still good, it's not GREAT anymore, but it's still good. For both parties. Millions are made n'stuff. AMD did say it expected to break even. (eventually)

Desktop market after 2020 might be not so good, but that is farther than this thread has any capability to speculate accurately lolz

The current line up of released info for CPU is only about 3 generations right? 2017 or something absolute max I'd say for all of it (or most) to be already out and about in the market, prevailing winds hitting the CPU's proverbial sails. And new generations revealed and/or in use.. I wonder how much it would have changed by them for AMD and Intell. :?


~not to derail the topic more but here:


I don't like Windows 8 much, and have already bought the Windows 7 Family pack for me and my brother just this month.
lol
We both run XP still, windows 7 is an actually an upgrade, in some cases, from that. Still going to use XP though (albeit offline after 2014 if necessary), since some software won't be compatible.

I do think that Windows is going the wrong direction with making hardware drivers and older software programs obsolete every new OS. Many older games that are good (but millions still haven't played abandoned ware ftw) are completely incompatible with newer OS's and won't ever be updated. Even if it's just to 64-bit. But that's a different matter..

I want windows to make a special offline edition of windows that has exacting compatibility with it's older OS's. XP and Vista (windows 7 when it's old) DOS and maybe even 95. An OS that doesn't use "modes" but is actually compatible (maybe some sort of reboot switch state?), that people can use to play older games and utilize older software. Just have Internet striped out or something...

Windows XP Legacy edition, no Internet. Pure Windows XP (pro at least) buyable for at most $100.. as if lol

Either that or people need to start an initiative for the release of Source Code for software that have been abandoned by their producers. So they can last generations via re-compileing. If the source code still exists.. Maybe some sort of special cheap/free licensing for re-compileing.
.. I had a temporary vision of understanding for how it would work but it's probably not accurate to reality..
A sort of foundation with special regulations. If done well, and the regulations aren't to restrictive but prevent abuse, it could be really great. Maybe non-profit xO or like a bank for source code LOL. Games can be akin to art and books, preserved in some places by people, casually destroyed in others...
a b à CPUs
November 16, 2012 10:21:54 PM

You can still run older OSes in virtual machines. XP is still supported (AFAIK) in VirtualBox and VMWare for that matter.

And unfortunately, the trend AMD has been showing is not new. It already has like 6 years. Ever since Intel got Conroe out (Core2 gen1), AMD has been in a downward spiral with no stopping. They bet big on ATI and sold their foundries later on, so their cashflow and control went to the drain. Also, when they bought ATI, they also sold the IPs for low power computing to Qualcomm (don't know if it was only the VGA part of that).

Cheers!
November 17, 2012 10:38:40 PM

I hear reports of steamroller being delayed until 2014. Also AMD is talking with JP Morgan, not a good sign at all. I am genuinely worried, even though they denied the possibility of them selling the company, what CEO would admit that until the very last minute, or when an actual deal is struck? (In privacy of course)
Related resources
a b à CPUs
November 18, 2012 6:21:19 AM

Uh oh: Corporate restructuring time:

http://allthingsd.com/20121116/amd-prepares-for-january...

Quote:
As we communicated during our third quarter earnings results, we expect to take further restructuring actions in the first half of 2013. At that time, we did not know what specifically they would consist of or if they would be material. We have not provided any updates since then and don’t comment on rumor or speculation.
a b à CPUs
November 18, 2012 11:37:30 AM

^ As I said on the previous page - wouldn't be surprised to see another round of layoffs early next year, after the Q4 earnings report..
November 19, 2012 12:28:15 AM

the problem with AMD is, you can't justify a purchase. i mean i'm seriously 95% willing to buy an AMD fm2-based system this holiday to "donate" money to them but i just can't. that i3 3220 is just ludicrously attractive with its "22nm bazongas".
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:28:33 AM

I'm seriously just waiting at this point for *some* company, any company, to produce an APU that can outperform my current system. And unfortunately, AMD is providing zero competition. I want them to sellout just so somebody else can bring back some high end alternatives.
a b À AMD
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:31:52 AM

anxiousinfusion said:
I'm seriously just waiting at this point for *some* company, any company, to produce an APU that can outperform my current system. And unfortunately, AMD is providing zero competition. I want them to sellout just so somebody else can bring back some high end alternatives.
come back in 3 years.
a b À AMD
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:33:07 AM

wh3resmycar said:
the problem with AMD is, you can't justify a purchase. i mean i'm seriously 95% willing to buy an AMD fm2-based system this holiday to "donate" money to them but i just can't. that i3 3220 is just ludicrously attractive with its "22nm bazongas".

so you are buying into marketing and saying you can't will yourself to donate? Sounds like the comsumerist society we live in alright.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:45:02 AM

wh3resmycar said:
the problem with AMD is, you can't justify a purchase. i mean i'm seriously 95% willing to buy an AMD fm2-based system this holiday to "donate" money to them but i just can't. that i3 3220 is just ludicrously attractive with its "22nm bazongas".


I am going to buy Trinity as it suits my needs. "justifying" it is easily done, I don't need to though why should I?
November 19, 2012 5:55:44 AM

NoUserBar said:
I am going to buy Trinity as it suits my needs. "justifying" it is easily done, I don't need to though why should I?


what needs?

intel just does it better. i know PD won't hit the APU cores till steamroller gets aboard (which is far far away) but these APUs, just won't/never make sense in a desktop if you're talking about trinity.

i mean the only victory AMD had achieved the past 6 years is the "IGP gaming crown". but that's like a non-disabled person winning the paralympics.

and from what AMD's roadmap had foretold (10-15% increase in performance) steamie is DOA. i mean i'm no expert but to what haswell will bring to the table....

i've a feeling adreno will outlive AMD. that single piece of tech that could've turned their fortunes around. ahh imagine a 64bit AMD-ARM SOC circa 2012.

peace.


November 19, 2012 8:20:24 AM

Adreno is not even the best mobile GPU out there. PowerVR GPU's are better. And they just released the PowerVR6 'Rogue' GPU's.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
November 19, 2012 11:34:18 AM

re-word it so it sounds like a rickroll...... that's how i felt after i opened s/a homepage(if that rumor is true). :lol:  :sol:  :whistle: 
on another note, sounds like this is amd's 'suck it, !@#$' to their faithfuls (again, if this is true).
November 19, 2012 11:38:09 AM

Back when OBR said this, we laughed called him an Intel shill . Then we were fooled by 'leaked' AMD slides that said SR will be 2014.
FU AMD.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
November 19, 2012 11:42:59 AM

imo... this is still a rumor and i'll believe it when i get more info or something official straight from amd themselves...
....
....
i think i'll visit amdzone for lulz for now.... :D 
November 19, 2012 11:48:56 AM

i believe.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 12:42:21 PM

mayankleoboy1 said:
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/19/amd-kills-off-big-co...


So this thread is now redundant. :( 


Actually the word you're looking for, is "moot"..

If true, looks like OBR was correct after all, despite all the hate he got over in the PD thread..

A shame, really, and I blame AMD's management - esp. Hector Ruiz - for AMD having to abandon their high end. I expect we'll see another round of layoffs soon after Q4 ends and AMD will shrink to maybe 8000 employees or less.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 12:45:01 PM

I wonder if JP Morgan has an agenda /cheapconspiracy

Well, aside from making money out of any bleeding company, hahaha.

Too bad for AMD. Now it's just a matter of time before they tear it apart and strip them down.

Cheers!
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 12:49:32 PM

mayankleoboy1 said:
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/19/amd-kills-off-big-co...


So this thread is now redundant. :( 


If true, AMD is going to go bankrupt, no maybe about it. ARM ONLY makes sense for mobile; it doesn't have the performance to compete at the high end. As AMD has no mobile strategy, and ARM will fail in servers, AMD will have no market left that wants its products.

Saw this coming though.
November 19, 2012 1:23:03 PM

This also means that apple wont be switching to AMD for their next gen computers.

So whats the mood at amdzone ?
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:24:37 PM

gamerk316 said:
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/29509-almost-75-perce...

Title speaks for itself.

LOL. so much for pd 'flying off the shelves' (as quoted recently by a c.a.l.f.)...

amd's mobile apus are worth buying.

*c.a.l.f. - clueless amd loving fanperson
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:39:37 PM

^ If true, I'd interpret AMD canceling Kaveri/Steamy as they were not able to get the 15% performance increase over Vishera, as stated in their old roadmap from last year. Or else not competitive with Haswell. Or both.

So despite being a year away according to the roadmap, it wasn't finished yet and AMD didn't see it as earning any return on continuing development.

So that would mean AMD wasted a lot of time and money, which they can ill afford.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:42:07 PM

Also I think this thread will get closed before, or at, 15 pages. Right after AMD's Q4 conference call, if AMD officially cancels Steamroller..
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:47:20 PM

sales figures from the original source (Hilarious bd sales figures):
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-11-19/146b.jpg

on topic: what if amd is planning a new roadmap after the recent flops. it's not like they're abandoning x86 entirely.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 1:49:07 PM

fazers_on_stun said:
Also I think this thread will get closed before, or at, 15 pages. Right after AMD's Q4 conference call, if AMD officially cancels Steamroller..


We'll see, but things are NOT looking good for AMD right now. Quite clear they are basically done now, if Charlie is accurate (as he has been in recent memory).
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 4:42:19 PM

Novuake said:
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/19/amd-kills-off-big-co...

Doubt this is true. Just putting it out there...

Bulldozer did alright in the server market. So i doubt they would ditch steamroller entirely.


If you look closely, they got an update and said the big cores are still on track.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 4:54:03 PM

griptwister said:
If you look closely, they got an update and said the big cores are still on track.


According to AMD.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
November 19, 2012 5:04:50 PM

hear that? that was the collective sigh of relief of thousands of amd faithfuls and would-be s/a haters.
good thing amd wasted no time to respond. on a less optimistic note, amd just didn't want to scare away investors... :whistle: 
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 5:45:03 PM

de5_Roy said:
hear that? that was the collective sigh of relief of thousands of amd faithfuls and would-be s/a haters.
good thing amd wasted no time to respond. on a less optimistic note, amd just didn't want to scare away investors... :whistle: 


:lol:  That's pretty funny considering everyone is listening to outside sources of information instead of straight from the Dog's mouth. Imo, they probably will sell the company... I'd like to see Nvidia get into the Big Core CPU game. Also, love your grammar.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 6:02:01 PM

griptwister said:
:lol:  That's pretty funny considering everyone is listening to outside sources of information instead of straight from the Dog's mouth.


Probably because said outside source has been consistently right, and the Dogs mouth has been consistently wrong.
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 6:39:35 PM

gamerk316 said:
Probably because said outside source has been consistently right, and the Dogs mouth has been consistently wrong.


Lol, its on the internet, it must be true! :lol: 
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 6:51:49 PM

griptwister said:
Lol, its on the internet, it must be true! :lol: 


Charlie has been, for several years now.
a b À AMD
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2012 7:53:48 PM

charlie has always been 50/50, though he is generally pretty good at snooping something out if there is something this big. We will have to wait till the end of Q4 for things to be announce from AMD most likely.
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 12:21:00 AM

esrever said:
charlie has always been 50/50, though he is generally pretty good at snooping something out if there is something this big. We will have to wait till the end of Q4 for things to be announce from AMD most likely.



I don't understand how a company can do so bad when they have quite a good GPU

It has a lot to do with management i'm sure, kinda hope this is not true because if true Intel will be the only option for many.
November 20, 2012 1:37:45 AM

^ Not anymore. We have ARM now.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
November 20, 2012 2:48:59 AM

jdwii said:
I don't understand how a company can do so bad when they have quite a good GPU

It has a lot to do with management i'm sure, kinda hope this is not true because if true Intel will be the only option for many.

imo gpu is the main reason their stuff are even selling. check out the techpowerup link(originally posted by gamerk):
http://www.techpowerup.com/175751/APUs-Make-Up-Nearly-7...
a b À AMD
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 3:44:20 AM

Quote:
I don't understand how a company can do so bad when they have quite a good GPU

It has a lot to do with management i'm sure, kinda hope this is not true because if true Intel will be the only option for many.

AMD doesn't have brand power and not nearly as much as nvidia, people buy nvidia no matter how good AMD's gpus are. Last year where the entire best cpu for the money list on toms was AMD cards, nvidia was still outselling AMD. AMD's marketing is virtually nonexistent but whenever they try to push their products, everyone hates on them. A lot of it has to do with AMD being too soft, nvidia and intel does what ever it take to make money, AMD trys to just make products at a lower price point. It doesn't give much profit and the business become unsustainable after a while.
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 3:44:28 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
^ Not anymore. We have ARM now.


ARM, PPC, SPARC, Itanium, and a few other CPU architectures.

Granted, none of these can run WINDOWS, but there are plenty of stable, alternative OS's that run fine with these architectures.
November 20, 2012 5:53:09 AM

Novuake said:

Bulldozer did alright in the server market. So i doubt they would ditch steamroller entirely.


How is losing marketshare, "doing alright"? :heink: 
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 6:29:38 AM

I meant real CPU manufacturers with at least I3-I5 performance Intel will be the only option in lots of markets.

Not to mention who will keep Nvidia honest? They all ready charge to much some times.
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 6:33:17 AM

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20121119225031...

Oh yes, more layoffs... surely that will produce better CPUs.

Maybe AMD should do a HP and stop making graphics cards. :) 

They could make ice-cream and waffles. Green ones. Surely!

mayankleoboy1 said:
^ Not anymore. We have ARM now.


Woot, let's run Adobe Illustrator CS6 on my beastly new ARM rig :) 

Then we'll go in for some nice hardcore Civ 5.

After that I'll relax and surf the internet with Firefox.

(EDIT: Oh wait, that actually runs on ARM, silly brain.)

a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 9:01:11 AM

jdwii said:
I meant real CPU manufacturers with at least I3-I5 performance Intel will be the only option in lots of markets.

Not to mention who will keep Nvidia honest? They all ready charge to much some times.

kinda funny on one of the other threads, one person was convinced that losing AMD is a good thing, thinking the government would step in and break up Intel into several sub-compaines ...

ARM is only sort of a cpu. They have no desktop parts, they have no motherboards, no video power for real performance, ect.

what could be interesting tho is if AMD has a trick up their sleeve with ARM. X86/arm/x64. Only problem would be getting microsoft to work in the update necessary to run all 3 on one system at the same time.

As far as "big cores" vs APU, we all pretty much knew SR was going to be an APU. "Big cores" may be referring to 8 full cores, with an APU, that would be an even bigger cpu.
a c 123 À AMD
a c 487 à CPUs
November 20, 2012 11:05:18 AM

My post from a different thread...

Well, I have stated in numerous posts over the past several months that AMD really needs to kill of socket AM3+ because the need to scale back their expenses. Focusing on socket FM2 for the consumer market makes sense for AMD both in the short term and long term. Basically having both APU and CPU for the consumer market is not really viable since both processors basically competes with each other for financial resources within AMD. Additionally, there is some sales cannibalization with consumers who are basically deciding if they should go with either socket FM2 or AM3+ as opposed to socket FM2 / AM3+ vs. socket 1155 (Intel).

AMD fans will not like the idea of the demise of socket AM3+ since it more or less means the only choice will be the lower end performance of socket FM2, but it really is the time for AMD to make the tough decision even though it is at the expense of the consumers. After all which scenario would be worse:

1. AMD continues to produce both AM3+ and FM2, but eventually faces the dire situation of running out of money to develop either one any further. And that hasn't taken into consideration the Radeon graphic cards yet. The outcome may actually be bankruptcy and the liquidation of AMD's assets. I would assume at that point VIA technologies would be interested in acquiring some AMD assets and patents.

2. The actual end of production of socket AM3+. AMD will truly stop competing with Intel in the performance arena. However, they will likely survive as a smaller leaner company with the prospect of growing again. Yes, people looking for a performance CPU will not doubt buy Intel whether they like it or not. But AMD's APUs are still a viable product for both laptop and desktop. The important take away is that AMD may live to fight another day.

While AMD's APUs are rather lackluster in performance at the moment, if they sole focus on that single product line for the consumer market, they should be able to improve performance and power consumption in later generations. Unfortunately, the APUs are a bit power hungry compared to Intel's Ivy Bridge CPUs and recently I have been recommending Ivy Bridge over Trinity for HTPC builds simply cause in the long term Ivy Bridge does use less electricity than Trinity; especially the Core i3 CPUs. Of course in cities where the cost of KWH is relatively inexpensive the argument holds little value. But for those who pays a lot per KWH (like 2x the national average), then power efficiency can play a larger role.

Hopefully AMD will push forward with the development of ARM server chips. While they may not match the performance level of the Opteron CPUs, they should end up costing less to purchase and reduce power consumption. Those two points should make ARM server chips an attractive alternative for small / medium businesses who are willing to give up some performance for a lower purchasing price as well as lower operating costs.

Hopefully the development of ARM server chips will also mean that AMD can get a shot to crack into the world of mobile devices (tablets & smartphones) where ARM based processors known as SoC (System on Chip) rules. It's not going to be easy though since Qualcomm and nVidia are amongst the larger and well known players in the SoC segment. Others include Samsung and Apple. Texas Instruments exited out of the SoC market because they feel the overall revenue generated by SoC is too small for them to bother with. They are currently in negotiations with Amazon to sell their SoC division. How much? Dunno. $3 - $4 billion perhaps?
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 11:20:40 AM

gamerk316 said:
Probably because said outside source has been consistently right, and the Dogs mouth has been consistently wrong.


I suspect AMD is worried about the bottom falling out of their stock price if this rumor takes hold and spreads. But yeah I think there's still a good chance Steamy's "track" will prove to be pretty short, right after the Q4 conference call. I'm sure JP Morgan will have given AMD various plans by then..
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 11:29:12 AM

amdfangirl said:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20121119225031...

Oh yes, more layoffs... surely that will produce better CPUs.


fazers_on_stun said:
I expect we'll see another round of layoffs soon after Q4 ends and AMD will shrink to maybe 8000 employees or less.


Quote:
AMD plans to lay off 15% of its workforce, or around 1700, this quarter to reduce operating costs so to reach $1.3 billion break-even point in 2013. Apparently, AMD will not stop here and will continue to reduce its headcount to reduce its costs. Unfortunately, AMD still does not know how many people will need to be shown the door. What should be noted is that AMD managers are waiting to see how many more people quit on their own accord between now and January – and thus do not require expensive severance packages.


If true, looks like I called it first :p ..

Seriously though, I hope AMD doesn't cut too deeply into their core engineering staff this time - they won't be able to compete with anybody in any space without engineers..
a b à CPUs
November 20, 2012 11:39:34 AM

noob2222 said:
kinda funny on one of the other threads, one person was convinced that losing AMD is a good thing, thinking the government would step in and break up Intel into several sub-compaines ...


If the government was going to do that, I'd think they would have done it during the height of the AMD-Intel lawsuit (i.e., before the settlement in 2009). And it probably would have been good for the industry, splitting Intel into design and fab. Or at least forcing Intel to open its fabs to other customers esp. AMD and maybe NV. That would have evened the playing field to a considerable extent so that the best designs could compete directly with each other. I'd bet we would have seen Bulldozer on time and with decent yields anyway..
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