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AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture - Page 50

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April 8, 2013 1:19:50 AM

truegenius said:
Quote:
:??:  intel clearly have x86 performance advantage with a huge margin they only need to clock their cpu higher (they have enough tdp room) and no amd can match their cpu performance at that price bracket (example i3@4ghz will trash any amd at current price in same price bracket fir majority of tasks).


Price/performance ratio is something I pay very close attention to. With so many people naysaying AMD, popular consensus suggests that AMD is absolute garbage vs Intel counterparts, but if you actually look at how much performance you're getting for your money, AMD comes out ahead most of the time. For instance, you will pay $329 for an i7-3770K and lets say you get 70fps in BF3. On the other hand, you will pay $189 for an FX-8350 and get 65fps in BF3. You end up spending 74% more money for the Intel for only 8% more performance over the FX-8350. The FX-8350 (for this particular application) is by far, the price/performance winner. Granted this isn't the i3 comparison you made, but even at the price range of those parts AMD holds their own.

Cpubenchmark dot net has an interesting Price/Performance chart which is kept up to date. I'm not saying this is the be-all end-all of value determining charts, but it's interesting nonetheless. Check it out.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html
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April 8, 2013 2:11:42 AM

mlscrow said:
truegenius said:
Quote:
:??:  intel clearly have x86 performance advantage with a huge margin they only need to clock their cpu higher (they have enough tdp room) and no amd can match their cpu performance at that price bracket (example i3@4ghz will trash any amd at current price in same price bracket fir majority of tasks).


Price/performance ratio is something I pay very close attention to. With so many people naysaying AMD, popular consensus suggests that AMD is absolute garbage vs Intel counterparts, but if you actually look at how much performance you're getting for your money, AMD comes out ahead most of the time. For instance, you will pay $329 for an i7-3770K and lets say you get 70fps in BF3. On the other hand, you will pay $189 for an FX-8350 and get 65fps in BF3. You end up spending 74% more money for the Intel for only 8% more performance over the FX-8350. The FX-8350 (for this particular application) is by far, the price/performance winner. Granted this isn't the i3 comparison you made, but even at the price range of those parts AMD holds their own.

Cpubenchmark dot net has an interesting Price/Performance chart which is kept up to date. I'm not saying this is the be-all end-all of value determining charts, but it's interesting nonetheless. Check it out.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html
said:


:??: 
this looks like me talking to me !
Related resources
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April 8, 2013 5:20:15 PM

mayankleoboy1 said:
guskline said:
When was the last verifiable AMD statement on the progress of the Steamroller?

Well, the last rumours were that AMD is not making Steamroller CPU's.
Some people like me assumed that this means that Steamroller will only be available in an APU.


Time for a super late response:

Quote:
Will AMD solder chips onto motherboards? (analydilatedcorporatestyle)
Permanent attach and no socket? We have SoC parts that are ‘soldered’ in that parlance. But we’re committed to sockets. In the channel business and the enthusiast space, we’re committed to sockets.

Has AMD given up on the desktop CPU horse race with Intel? It would be terrible if Intel became the only game in town. (Snargelfargen)
Absolutely it would be terrible and good Lord, no. We hope to have some news for you very shortly on that [apologies, legalese disclaimer alert: AMD is in what's known as a 'quiet period' and due to financial markets strictures is limited in what it can say about future product plans, but I'm thinking Steamroller].


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/08/hard-choices...
April 8, 2013 7:15:00 PM

^ thats an interesting interview.
Notice that he does not reveal anything. But since he is humorous in pieces, it appears that he is very forthcoming. Nice illusion.
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April 8, 2013 8:21:49 PM

AMD will gradually phase out CPU products using FM1 and AM3 sockets starting April with FM1-based processors to officially step out of the market in the third quarter and AM3-based processors at the end of 2013, according to sources from motherboard players. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130408PD206.html
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April 8, 2013 9:48:54 PM

anxiousinfusion said:
Spoiler
mayankleoboy1 said:
guskline said:
When was the last verifiable AMD statement on the progress of the Steamroller?

Well, the last rumours were that AMD is not making Steamroller CPU's.
Some people like me assumed that this means that Steamroller will only be available in an APU.


Time for a super late response:

Quote:
Will AMD solder chips onto motherboards? (analydilatedcorporatestyle)
Permanent attach and no socket? We have SoC parts that are ‘soldered’ in that parlance. But we’re committed to sockets. In the channel business and the enthusiast space, we’re committed to sockets.

Has AMD given up on the desktop CPU horse race with Intel? It would be terrible if Intel became the only game in town. (Snargelfargen)
Absolutely it would be terrible and good Lord, no. We hope to have some news for you very shortly on that [apologies, legalese disclaimer alert: AMD is in what's known as a 'quiet period' and due to financial markets strictures is limited in what it can say about future product plans, but I'm thinking Steamroller].


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/08/hard-choices...

sounds promising but not serious. he's right to call out the guy (- seemed like a disgruntled amd fanboy) who asked about p.o.s. cpus, lol.
since amd promises not to do proprietary stuff, gfx card performance won't be as polarized as before (physx vs radeon). that's a good thing imo.
skitz9417 said:
AMD will gradually phase out CPU products using FM1 and AM3 sockets starting April with FM1-based processors to officially step out of the market in the third quarter and AM3-based processors at the end of 2013, according to sources from motherboard players. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130408PD206.html

typical of product cycles. amd did make too many of those llano apus though.
weirdly, the article says amd will unify sockets even though amd's just eol'ing old stuff. makes no sense.

Acrosser Introduces All-in-one Gaming Board for Kiosks
http://www.techpowerup.com/182513/Acrosser-Introduces-A...

Next Xbox may have AMD Jaguar cores, $500 price tag
http://techreport.com/news/24631/next-xbox-may-have-amd...

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April 8, 2013 10:32:37 PM

skitz9417 said:
AMD will gradually phase out CPU products using FM1 and AM3 sockets starting April with FM1-based processors to officially step out of the market in the third quarter and AM3-based processors at the end of 2013, according to sources from motherboard players. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130408PD206.html


They are being replaced by FM2 and AM3+ parts which are already out.
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April 9, 2013 1:14:22 PM

anxiousinfusion said:
mayankleoboy1 said:
guskline said:
When was the last verifiable AMD statement on the progress of the Steamroller?

Well, the last rumours were that AMD is not making Steamroller CPU's.
Some people like me assumed that this means that Steamroller will only be available in an APU.


Time for a super late response:

Quote:
Will AMD solder chips onto motherboards? (analydilatedcorporatestyle)
Permanent attach and no socket? We have SoC parts that are ‘soldered’ in that parlance. But we’re committed to sockets. In the channel business and the enthusiast space, we’re committed to sockets.

Has AMD given up on the desktop CPU horse race with Intel? It would be terrible if Intel became the only game in town. (Snargelfargen)
Absolutely it would be terrible and good Lord, no. We hope to have some news for you very shortly on that [apologies, legalese disclaimer alert: AMD is in what's known as a 'quiet period' and due to financial markets strictures is limited in what it can say about future product plans, but I'm thinking Steamroller].


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/08/hard-choices...


Are you going to make CPUs that aren’t a steaming pile of pooh anytime soon? (wuwul)
That’s a little harsh! They’re not. Come and ask me face to face!

My favorite part.

Sorry about quoting both of you by the way tomshardware has a lacking system that maybe needs new web designers.

Not if there isnt a robot on the other end of the phone ;) 
Lets keep it civil
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April 9, 2013 3:25:05 PM

esrever said:


They are being replaced by FM2 and AM3+ parts which are already out.


Good news for AM3+ folks. Another 2 years left. Dang.
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April 9, 2013 5:38:09 PM

Cazalan said:
esrever said:


They are being replaced by FM2 and AM3+ parts which are already out.


Good news for AM3+ folks. Another 2 years left. Dang.


I never understood this <.<

There is nothing wrong with AM3+, no capability it requires that it doesn't already have.

The fact the socket design's been around for so long is testament to how well it was planned for expansion.
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April 9, 2013 7:01:03 PM

JAYDEEJOHN only using the quote from the article.
April 10, 2013 1:16:29 AM

I know, but now you know the filter isnt working, no problems here
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April 10, 2013 2:15:24 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I know, but now you know the filter isnt working, no problems here


Ha ha actually i didn't wonder why? anyways sorry about that.
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April 10, 2013 3:22:32 AM

Well AMD have played the long game well this time, GT3 remains an enigma and ellusive as ever there is nothing on GT3 yet other that dodgy videos that are as suspect as Michael Jackson at a kiddies party. What AMD will know is they have had intel have to clock in excess of 1.3ghz on the iGPU to achieve performance, those clock rates are virtually double HD4000 and if you look at the exponential growth needed on this it is completely unsustainable.

Nvidia confirm GT700 series for early 2014, no surprises, AMD is releasing Sea Islands/Solar System in Q4 2013, it gives Nvidia time to bump up clocks and add things, then come out and say its a low end GK ??? and they are not impressed with the competition. Good ol Nvidia know how to tear people up.

The good thing out this is that AMD will still need to do a lot on the CPU/APU side, and the GPU side of the company but it looks like they are coping well on all fronts, I like surprises and I hope the surprise will be Steamy and Kaveri, would be nice to see Toms suck up their pride putting AMD parts into recommendation lists:D 
April 10, 2013 4:43:11 AM

^ What i wonder is if the HD8000 will be 20nm or not. At 28nm, is there much more room for improvement ? On the same node, I would say that the max perf they can get is ~15% without raising the TDP.
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April 10, 2013 4:54:16 AM

hd8000/gcn2.0 can get 20nm if apple doesn't monopolize it. iirc apple was the biggest 'motivator' for tsmc to accelerate their 20nm process. only if amd and nvidia made that much moniez.
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April 10, 2013 5:29:14 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
^ What i wonder is if the HD8000 will be 20nm or not. At 28nm, is there much more room for improvement ? On the same node, I would say that the max perf they can get is ~15% without raising the TDP.


I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.

I am really starting to love the APU's, just threw in some old faithful 6850's and 6970's and they coped well when I was told competent low cost gamer, I never really thought they would be capable of this.


April 10, 2013 7:20:59 AM

Looking at the 7790, I think AMD has learned a few things about their new GCN and 28nm as well.
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April 10, 2013 7:37:20 AM

Would make sense to apply that all to the series and refresh all the silicon.

Also the HD 5450 is pretty obsolete.
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April 10, 2013 7:51:47 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Looking at the 7790, I think AMD has learned a few things about their new GCN and 28nm as well.


Well the 7790 is a bit of a master stroke, they achieved nigh on 7850 performance on close to 7750 power consumption and less heat, they also eliminated the need for three SKU's. I do suppose they could come up with a Tahiti XT or something to make the 7950 and 7970 redundant as well leaving a minimal number of SKUs on the market. 7790, 7870XT(needs to fall to $350 beating the 660ti and 670 in price/performance) and a 7975XT then the 7990 thats a large enough line until Sea Islands.



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April 10, 2013 8:21:36 AM

Newegg has the Sapphire Radeon HD 7870XT on sale for $235...making it quite the bargain at that price.
April 10, 2013 8:41:23 AM

sarinaide said:
I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.


Is the 20nm tech even ready for mass production yet /by end of year ? And by which all foundries ?
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April 10, 2013 11:56:12 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
sarinaide said:
I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.


Is the 20nm tech even ready for mass production yet /by end of year ? And by which all foundries ?


TSMC and GloFo can already mass produce 20nm wafers at varying qualities...they've been able to mass produce them since Q1 this year, and GloFo has a new proprietary process that will begin production toward Q4 this year that is supposed to make their SOI even better for high performance/high quality applications.
April 10, 2013 12:18:51 PM

sarinaide said:
mayankleoboy1 said:
^ What i wonder is if the HD8000 will be 20nm or not. At 28nm, is there much more room for improvement ? On the same node, I would say that the max perf they can get is ~15% without raising the TDP.


I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.

I am really starting to love the APU's, just threw in some old faithful 6850's and 6970's and they coped well when I was told competent low cost gamer, I never really thought they would be capable of this.




How was the 7850 sandbagged?
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April 10, 2013 12:43:44 PM

viridiancrystal said:
sarinaide said:
mayankleoboy1 said:
^ What i wonder is if the HD8000 will be 20nm or not. At 28nm, is there much more room for improvement ? On the same node, I would say that the max perf they can get is ~15% without raising the TDP.


I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.

I am really starting to love the APU's, just threw in some old faithful 6850's and 6970's and they coped well when I was told competent low cost gamer, I never really thought they would be capable of this.




How was the 7850 sandbagged?


Its not really sandbagged but a 7790 isn't too far off, hey its 10% faster than the 6950 while using almost half the power .
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April 10, 2013 1:03:02 PM

mayankleoboy1 said:


Is the 20nm tech even ready for mass production yet /by end of year ? And by which all foundries ?


Nvidia has 20nm in their roadmap for Maxwell in 2014.
AMD shows 28nm through 2014.

"Ready" depends on the buyers expectation of the yields. Both are being more cautious about that after the 28nm struggles.
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April 10, 2013 11:56:11 PM

jdwii said:
viridiancrystal said:
sarinaide said:
mayankleoboy1 said:
^ What i wonder is if the HD8000 will be 20nm or not. At 28nm, is there much more room for improvement ? On the same node, I would say that the max perf they can get is ~15% without raising the TDP.


I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.

I am really starting to love the APU's, just threw in some old faithful 6850's and 6970's and they coped well when I was told competent low cost gamer, I never really thought they would be capable of this.




How was the 7850 sandbagged?


Its not really sandbagged but a 7790 isn't too far off, hey its 10% faster than the 6950 while using almost half the power .


The common tendency was to jump on the 650ti Boost bandwagon, when Nvidia binned its 660 GK104 silicon in a lower price bracket, this while AMD instead of mass producing more stocks on existing SKU's and having them be unsold really just redesigned Southern Islands into a part that is fast and light on power but more importantly very cool in a lower price bracket and eliminated old SKU's in the process. This was a bit of a master stroke and as usual the new peeps at nvidia have a hard time admitting their mistakes.

As above maybe AMD can come up with a 7975XT which is maybe 5-10% slower than the titan and sell it for $600, that will just erode the titan and stick another pin into Nvidia's side. I had not used a Radeon prior to around 2011, having seen the direction Nvidia is going I am not really happy with the all talk no action approach, GeForce used to mean a lot more than a corporate show pony that it is becoming. Some keep telling me Nvidia is the industry leader but I don't see it anything like that, all they do is wait and react to the competitor then call it innovation, I for one am getting tired of the tiddly winking going on there.

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April 11, 2013 2:27:25 AM

jdwii said:
From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_T...


It ranges in its performance advantage, true its the fastest single GPU out but Nvidia did take a Tesla K20X toss in the GK110 mantra and say "See we told you we was holding back". The titan is a great niche card and performance for a professional workstation, but it also represents a massive Nvidia fail, they need to bin GPU's to produce results because the all conquering 680 of April/May 2012 quickly became the surplus to requirments.

If you can afford a Titan, go for it, it is a good product but its rather pointless for what you need. If AMD re constructs a 7975XT or something like that and sits it up right behind the Titan with a lower price tag, then Nvidia will rapidly drop the titans price or they will sit with unsold silicon yet again.
April 11, 2013 2:35:08 AM

^
Quote:
If you can afford a Titan, go for it, it is a good product but its rather pointless for what you need. If AMD re constructs a 7975XT or something like that and sits it up right behind the Titan with a lower price tag, then Nvidia will rapidly drop the titans price or they will sit with unsold silicon yet again.


Highly unlikely. Titans are being sold faster than Nvidia can produce them. It is a definite HALO product.
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April 11, 2013 3:24:15 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
^
Quote:
If you can afford a Titan, go for it, it is a good product but its rather pointless for what you need. If AMD re constructs a 7975XT or something like that and sits it up right behind the Titan with a lower price tag, then Nvidia will rapidly drop the titans price or they will sit with unsold silicon yet again.


Highly unlikely. Titans are being sold faster than Nvidia can produce them. It is a definite HALO product.


Yeah the process is so complex and silicon sparse that they cannot produce enough for people wanting to drop 1k bombs. The point was that if AMD came along with a mass produced on tap 7975XT (scaled up TahitiXT Pro) and bombarded stockists with a card that was only marginally slower at a lower cost, then everyone will jump ship because the titan is really only a niche product.

April 11, 2013 8:15:16 AM

nVidia knows how to market halo, and its something AMD is learning to do.
The problem we see now with nodes coming further apart, especially since skipping a node here or there to keep up with Intel, the midterm family upgrades have been stretched in delivery, but a 1950XT type 7970 wouldnt be a bad idea, tho if the market and previous decisions have set into motion a longer waiting period, like with the game packages and good sales for the 7970 today, they may postpone such a midterm family upgrade or eliminate it altogether , again determined by the maturity of the new node coming.
They arent going to jump on 20nm, its just not going to happen.
Ramping smaller chips on a newer node helps bring its maturity forwards somewhat, and costs decline as well.
All these and more factors play into when the new cards will be seen.
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April 11, 2013 8:41:01 AM

jdwii said:
From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_T...


Single GPU? That alone would make it more attractive then any SLI-option, especially from a latency perspective.

Aside from that, NVIDIA knows their market. Its pure "look at me" economics.
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April 11, 2013 9:46:15 AM

Titan is an engineering feat. At 7.1 billion transistors it is the largest single die ASIC in the world.

Of course the yields will be terrible at almost twice the size of any previous chip. I wouldn't buy one but it's still impressive how far they've pushed the 28nm node.
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April 11, 2013 11:58:08 AM

Intel Crystalwell (GT3e 5200)

The eDRAM die is sizable.

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April 11, 2013 12:57:03 PM

^ DAT DIE. ;) 
April 11, 2013 1:04:44 PM

umm... doesn't look like Haswell, the larger chip in that socket is just too "square" compared with what has been circulated
April 11, 2013 2:08:00 PM

I have been hearing about the new AMd APU Kaveri, Im thinking about building a gaming pc with amd apu should I even wait for the Kaveri, From what I have read, it is designed for mobile pcs not desktop is that right?
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April 11, 2013 2:18:50 PM

Cazalan said:
Intel Crystalwell (GT3e 5200)

The eDRAM die is sizable.



Don't tell me the big square is the included RAM? o.O

Looks nice, as every porn-CPU shot. Thanks for sharing 8)

Cheers!
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April 11, 2013 3:58:41 PM

gamerk316 said:
jdwii said:
From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_T...


Single GPU? That alone would make it more attractive then any SLI-option, especially from a latency perspective.

Aside from that, NVIDIA knows their market. Its pure "look at me" economics.



Actually i just noticed that it was a single GPU wow i'm a beginner its actually nothing special since its such a HUGE die i'm actually sure Amd could do this with less but honestly probably isn't worth it. I think you can honestly see that Amd got rid of GPU engineers since their just now coming out with a 7990 usually Amd brought that product out faster.
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April 11, 2013 4:15:05 PM

jdwii said:
gamerk316 said:
jdwii said:
From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_T...


Single GPU? That alone would make it more attractive then any SLI-option, especially from a latency perspective.

Aside from that, NVIDIA knows their market. Its pure "look at me" economics.



Actually i just noticed that it was a single GPU wow i'm a beginner its actually nothing special since its such a HUGE die i'm actually sure Amd could do this with less but honestly probably isn't worth it. I think you can honestly see that Amd got rid of GPU engineers since their just now coming out with a 7990 usually Amd brought that product out faster.


GCN 2.0...once they get that going...it will be something to see...
April 11, 2013 10:03:11 PM

http://hwbot.org/news/9347_intel_haswell_overclocking_f...

Details (in proper english) about Haswell overclocking. You all can read it the usual stuff. But this caught my eye :


Quote:
In this case, 22nm. Previous Tocks were Sandy Bridge and Nehalem. The next generation of Intel products will be a Tick and brings the Haswell micro-architecture to 18nm. The fifth generation of Intel Core products we know as Broadwell. The next Tock, after Broadwell in 2014, is Skylake and is scheduled for 2015 release.


Intel will move from 22nm --> 18nm --> 14nm ???
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April 11, 2013 10:22:28 PM

mayankleoboy1 said:


Intel will move from 22nm --> 18nm --> 14nm ???


Probably just a typo. Intel already taped out Broadwell 14nm and has samples running windows. Mass production starting end of this year.
April 11, 2013 10:28:42 PM

It should be 16nm
Every other node halved
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April 11, 2013 11:00:15 PM

Mitrovah said:
I have been hearing about the new AMd APU Kaveri, Im thinking about building a gaming pc with amd apu should I even wait for the Kaveri, From what I have read, it is designed for mobile pcs not desktop is that right?


The emphasis of development is on mobile but all APUs have been released in both mobile and desktop variants.
April 11, 2013 11:09:44 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
It should be 16nm
Every other node halved


No 14nm ?
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April 11, 2013 11:40:35 PM

hcl123 said:
umm... doesn't look like Haswell, the larger chip in that socket is just too "square" compared with what has been circulated


I think the more rectangular one was the i3 version. Those early presentations were all about low power.

The image came from vr-zone who snagged it at IDF Beijing yesterday.
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April 12, 2013 12:03:16 AM





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