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AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture - Page 80

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May 31, 2013 9:32:33 AM

juanrga said:

That is why Anand moderators could not offer any sensible explanation of why they use biased benchmarks in the jaguar 'review' and blamed readers/buyers.

AMD is not the only damaged by this attitude of some review sites. If you read the thread, users are damaged as well, because they are deciding their purchase (AMD vs Intel) in base to biased information. Therefore not only AMD has to fight this, but users also have to fight.

Therefore don't only ask what can do AMD to fight this kind of injustice, but what you can do to defend your rights as buyer.

You can spread sites as Agner blog to people who does not know what Intel did/does. You can ask to review sites' moderators why are using biased benchmarks in their reviews, and so on.


Again, that doesn't solve the root issue, since internet is free speech, it only serves to polarize the discussions. AnandT is biased (many know), but on discussions pum! charts and numbers of AT are shoved in everybody faces, and ppl waste an enormous amount of time discussing it no matter what, meaning they use "willingful eager users" to do their fight for them, and you can't convince those otherwise so easily ; " AT bad ? you are trolling, and an AMD fanboy"... " no you are blind and an intel fanboy" ... " "no you are this... and this and that sucks" ... and worst and worst...

See what i mean ? ... leads to nowhere but very aggressive posts.

Politely exposed that those are not prove of evidence of any argument, don't click on them... and its not only AT, its the all review "business" that with current methodologies and instruments has a tremendous lack of meaning.

SOLUTION

Attack the message not the messengers...

if is *HARDWARE* that is to be measured than software must not change, or you'll have no reference points .

Which is *exactly* what happens now, benchmark software have no guaranties of anything not even origin, and since is "software" and prone to bugs and errors, you don't even know if the build x last month is the same of the build y this month(how many times did a bench failed on some test machine ? is it hardware fault or software ?), that is, it can change a lot to, voiding the all deal of consistency and meaning.

Ask for md5 signatures, at least you would know if there are any changes in those binaries.

That is THE ONLY THING that users can do, fight for immutable benchmark software, anything else you can't force no one to nothing (its not legal even).

May 31, 2013 9:51:27 AM

Ranth said:
I kinda hate Semiacurate for doing this :(  :
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/31/amds-richland-is-hid...



JAYDEEJOHN said:
Charlie & company needs to make a living, but at least we know more than we did....er..OK maybe not


Yes S|A is in the business of selling *rumors*...

I'm not judging, but i stand in complete awe ! ... who in their right mind would buy a rumor! ... and i though IT was about *science* not rumors.

If that proves to be a consistent business model, then everything is lost, because the parties with the most cloth and manipulative power, by rumor, intrigue and deception will end up winning *EVERYTHING*...
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2013 9:53:21 AM

Cazalan said:
sarinaide said:
Kirby and Intel are probably two of the most unethical yet rich companies, I am guessing its alright since they make you fast CPU's we can just turn a blind eye.


You can bet any company that has made over a billion dollars has done something unethical. That's just the nature of capitalism.


Its not like Amd's perfect, with basically lying in marketing.
Related resources
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May 31, 2013 9:56:49 AM

anxiousinfusion said:
The Q6660 Inside said:

+1


The upvote/downvote functionality clearly needs to be returned to the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE6pIMqMQ2E He says "In our new product next year, codenamed Kaveri." So it's 2014 now?


that would be a bit comical considering they released the new "roadmap" just yesterday with kaveri on there for 2013. http://techreport.com/news/24883/amd-roadmap-suggests-k...

he probably was talking "next year" meaning thats all thats coming in 2014. I don't expect to see any excavator APU till at the earliest, late late 2014, so next year is the year of kaveri APU. Im expecting a slow to limited release in 2013 due to 28nm transition, it always is buggy or low yield at first, esp if its GF.

I don't expect FM2+ to be much more than gddr5 support option.

BTW hcl123, don't forget the ever lasting ... "your just a conspiracy theorist, there is no proof, therefore its a lie." That one always cracks me up.

Personally im not sure who is worse tho, Apple or Intel. Apple is abusing the patent system to block competition, Intel just used their own money instead of the governments. I can at least have a tiny bit if respect for Intel for that aspect.
May 31, 2013 9:57:10 AM

Could it be that the secret is a fully working RCM technology, that apparently wasnt working in PD. That could explain the large clock increase, in the sam TDP.
May 31, 2013 10:01:07 AM

hcl123 said:


Yes S|A is in the business of selling *rumors*...


Atleastfor the last 2-3 years, his rumours have been spot on, and usually several months before anyone else has a clue about it. He bases his rumours on inside leaks (moles) and technical + financial prediction.

Quote:
I'm not judging, but i stand in complete awe ! ... who in their right mind would buy a rumor! ... and i though IT was about *science* not rumors.

He is already making large amount of money from this model, and most paying members are part of a tech company....

Quote:
If that proves to be a consistent business model, then everything is lost, because the parties with the most cloth and manipulative power, by rumor, intrigue and deception will end up winning *EVERYTHING*...


This already happens now.
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2013 10:06:18 AM

A bit off topic, but funny news. MS lost the Start battle.

Quote:
PCs today are evolving for a world of mobile computing where people interact with their devices through touch, and we designed Windows 8 for this. But we also recognize there are many non-touch devices in use today – especially in the commercial setting. As such we’ve focused on a number of improvements to ensure easier navigation for people using a mouse and keyboard.

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/arch...


Return of the start button may convince OEMs to start adding more windows 8.1 machines, end users ... will still be skeptical at best.
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May 31, 2013 10:15:43 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
Could it be that the secret is a fully working RCM technology, that apparently wasnt working in PD. That could explain the large clock increase, in the sam TDP.


Possibly, but PD saw a sizable TDP change from BD as well. CPUs have like 12 layers of metal now. They're small 3D jigsaw puzzles. There's always ways to tweak the layout.

Maybe some P states were broken or more were added like for 7790. That would have to be listed in the errata for the part.
May 31, 2013 10:54:31 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
Could it be that the secret is a fully working RCM technology, that apparently wasnt working in PD. That could explain the large clock increase, in the sam TDP.


No.

Its the SOI process alright, that was revamped. Actually attending that die shot of SR, i'm convinced that BDver1 was not truly 32nm SOI, but an hybrid of 45nm, since SR packs a lot of double structures by that die shot, yet the "module" manages to be even a little smaller(making good faith on the images).

Just consider that 32nm SOI, which by this proves is better than 22 nm bulk finfet of Intel for high performance, is the process used by IBM to put a "commercial" 600mm² chip at 5.5Ghz ( no not typos 600mm² and 5.5Ghz).

That is something that Charlei of S|A will never admit

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=151814&po...
Quote:
Let me repeat myself one more time.

THERE IS NO SOI UNDER 28nm FROM ANYONE, PERIOD.

If anyone is unclear, please ask again, so I can get annoyed.

-Charlie


FD-SOI ARM-based SmartPhone Chip Hitting 3GHz in Barcelona – But Wait: It’s the Low Active Standby Power (0.6V for 1GHz) That’s Really Amazing!
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com/2013/02/fd-soi-arm...

LOL

About the so called "temperature" oriented turbo, all it takes is a serious look at official AMD slides, Trinity already had that
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-announces-new-A-Series...

image
http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/8...

Perhaps there has been a lot of money for the take to whitewash intel finfet process, and now everybody parrots that intel has the best process, when its AMAZINGLY EVIDENT that is not truth, neither for high performance where 32 PD-SOI rules, neither for low power where STMicro 28nm FD-SOI is absolute king...

A REAL SECRET lost in the UNMEANING benchmarks is ;
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_3570k_revi...
Quote:
Performance wise Ivy Bridge series never did stun and shock like the Sandy Bridge series did once they where introduced. In fact clock for clock it is all roughly the very same, with a +0.8% performance offset in favor of Ivy Bridge.


And is worst than that, because IB has many issues with "hot spots" so tends to OC worst.

So much for the great finfet mantra!...

[EDIT: a great conclusion that we can take of all this, is that intel never fails, even when it fails in the most miserable way ]

[EDIT2: how did i come out with all this!?... just look the links, i'm not in a "campaign", just started to avoid the sites that many now suspect of biasing... far better than entering in pointless bickering]

May 31, 2013 11:28:44 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
hcl123 said:


Yes S|A is in the business of selling *rumors*...


Atleastfor the last 2-3 years, his rumours have been spot on, and usually several months before anyone else has a clue about it. He bases his rumours on inside leaks (moles) and technical + financial prediction.


I hope my previous post just shatters that myth about long before time infallibility of S|A... and people now more and more in several places take issues with possible(and evident) biasing on charts and numbers, but want to force themselves in the same mistakes over and over... if so why wouldn't they even try to be worst and flat out deceive ?

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May 31, 2013 11:36:45 AM

de5_Roy said:
i liked the last ubuntu i tried. imo it's good for newbies. but i liked puppy linux more even though i am a linux newbie myself. it helped me to resuscitate a couple of dead pcs. and often helps me with pc maintenance. :lol:  i think the latest ubuntu puts a bit too much pressure on old gfx.


amdfangirl said:
truegenius said:
linux everytime !

ok, which linux or ubunto (if they are seperate things) will you recommend for a beginer (with no experience of any other os except windows) ?????
i will give it a try


Personally I use Scientific Linux. That's more or less the same as CentOS except it sounds cooler and has a better logo.

If you're just starting out I suppose you would do well to try Mageia.

http://www.mageia.org/en/

Go for the KDE version.


jdwii said:
I personally like Mint much more and think its better than Ubuntu when it comes to noobs.


The Q6660 Inside said:
jdwii said:
I personally like Mint much more and think its better than Ubuntu when it comes to noobs.


+1


esrever said:
ubunto works fine and gives pretty much a windows like experience.


8350rocks said:
truegenius said:
linux everytime !

ok, which linux or ubunto (if they are seperate things) will you recommend for a beginer (with no experience of any other os except windows) ?????
i will give it a try


Ubuntu 13.04 is the most stable, user friendly release available. You can get it from Canonical for something like $5 (If you want a disk, if you have the freespace, it's a free download and you can make your own OS disk or even flash drive). It's a very user friendly design with an easy to navigate UI, you'll need to get familiar with some of the commands in the OS, but they're not terribly complicated.


The Q6660 Inside said:
truegenius said:
linux everytime !

ok, which linux or ubunto (if they are seperate things) will you recommend for a beginer (with no experience of any other os except windows) ?????
i will give it a try


Ubuntu is a distribution of Debian Linux, one of the first of its kind. I would suggest trying out Linux Mint, a distribution of Ubuntu with amazing visuals and said to be one of the best distributions of the former, you can install Ubuntu and Mint as a Windows Application as well for east deletion.

Someone with no knowledge of the OS trying Mint 14 out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-PTQVeCF9k

http://www.linuxmint.com/


palladin9479 said:
truegenius said:
linux everytime !

ok, which linux or ubunto (if they are seperate things) will you recommend for a beginer (with no experience of any other os except windows) ?????
i will give it a try


Ubunto is pretty much the "go to" starter linux. After your comfortable working inside the environment and know how to make a proper build chain you can get a bit more creative. Personally I prefer CentOS though I tend to heavily customize it after install. Debian has by far the largest software base but you'll run into problems with drivers and such due to their licensing model. Debian requires all code to be opensource, hardware venders don't always like to release their IP (they spend a lot of money developing optimized drivers) as OS for their competitors to copy.



thanks everyine for your suggtestions :) 
i will try them all (puppy linux, ubuntu 13.04, mint, centos, mageia)
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2013 11:44:19 AM

hcl123 said:
That is THE ONLY THING that users can do, fight for immutable benchmark software, anything else you can't force no one to nothing (its not legal even).



Question: Wouldn't you then be complaining that AMD is being hurt because they decided to shift their focus away from X87 processing?
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May 31, 2013 11:46:22 AM

hcl123 said:
Just consider that 32nm SOI, which by this proves is better than 22 nm bulk finfet of Intel for high performance, is the process used by IBM to put a "commercial" 600mm² chip at 5.5Ghz ( no not typos 600mm² and 5.5Ghz).


Power7 based, which is an architecture that is designed to scale in clock. Can't compare architectures on clock alone.
a b À AMD
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May 31, 2013 12:23:50 PM

anxiousinfusion said:
The Q6660 Inside said:

+1


The upvote/downvote functionality clearly needs to be returned to the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE6pIMqMQ2E He says "In our new product next year, codenamed Kaveri." So it's 2014 now?

It also says that richland has gcn. Which I really doubt.
a b À AMD
a c 210 à CPUs
May 31, 2013 12:31:57 PM

esrever said:
anxiousinfusion said:
The Q6660 Inside said:

+1


The upvote/downvote functionality clearly needs to be returned to the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE6pIMqMQ2E He says "In our new product next year, codenamed Kaveri." So it's 2014 now?

It also says that richland has gcn. Which I really doubt.


Originally, there was speculation Richland would have GCN, it has since been shown that it does not...however, it does boast dramatically improved graphics.

Kaveri, on the other hand, will be GCN.
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2013 12:34:12 PM

esrever said:
anxiousinfusion said:
The Q6660 Inside said:

+1


The upvote/downvote functionality clearly needs to be returned to the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE6pIMqMQ2E He says "In our new product next year, codenamed Kaveri." So it's 2014 now?

It also says that richland has gcn. Which I really doubt.


He only says "8000 series".
a b À AMD
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2013 12:40:52 PM

anxiousinfusion said:
esrever said:
anxiousinfusion said:
The Q6660 Inside said:

+1


The upvote/downvote functionality clearly needs to be returned to the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE6pIMqMQ2E He says "In our new product next year, codenamed Kaveri." So it's 2014 now?

It also says that richland has gcn. Which I really doubt.


He only says "8000 series".
the interview guy asked if its GCN and he agreed.

May 31, 2013 1:02:23 PM

gamerk316 said:
hcl123 said:
That is THE ONLY THING that users can do, fight for immutable benchmark software, anything else you can't force no one to nothing (its not legal even).



Question: Wouldn't you then be complaining that AMD is being hurt because they decided to shift their focus away from X87 processing?


That is a side issue... x87 has very few uses now, lest of all in the context of "client/desktop" systems.

I think you ask about superpi right ?... meaningless on top of meaningless. Yet the worst meaningless is that superpi blob has no md5 signature, you can't even have any assurance its the superpi real superpi (very easy to fake what it does), so 2 tests of superpi, can be 2 tests of 2 different things.

This is the most generalized sad part of this story.

gamerk316 said:
hcl123 said:
Just consider that 32nm SOI, which by this proves is better than 22 nm bulk finfet of Intel for high performance, is the process used by IBM to put a "commercial" 600mm² chip at 5.5Ghz ( no not typos 600mm² and 5.5Ghz).


Power7 based, which is an architecture that is designed to scale in clock. Can't compare architectures on clock alone.


Right. But you can have a very serious perspective about the worth of a fab process with the clock. And in here we are talking about high performance high clocks were power is a secondary issue... like with GPUs.

And its not Power uarch, is Z uarch, which is a speed daemon uarch resembling intel P4 in some aspects ( what for some is no good for others can be marvelous)

http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/...

Which leads to suspect... again IT is full of propaganda and myths... the worst failure of P4 was not the design, was the fab process, and the design felt strongly those restraints (Prescott would never had to be, or a very different Prescott would had been possible, if intel had chosen SOI for fab).

But this already lost context in time alright, you can say its a supposition of mine, but i feel very positively about it.(edit)
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
May 31, 2013 1:13:23 PM

esrever said:
http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-05/amds-kaveri-apu...
looks like AMD roadmap still shows kaveri for 2013

heh, seems like xbitlabs link that i read and posted 'creatively modified' the leaked slides. :whistle:  others posted uncropped images. if i am to believe that, then kaveri is on track for 2013 release while steamroller opterons are gone (i.e. zero number of sr cpu). +NaCl

@richland: i can remember as far back as early trinity-rumors and roadmaps where 'richland' was shown as the codename for low end trinity a4 apus. >_> that was before multiple speculations (no 'leaks') of richland having pd cores with gcn igpu.... which settled on rl being trinity 1.05.
May 31, 2013 1:27:50 PM

No Richland is not GCN is VLIW4

C'mon guys if the link were AT, it would be dissected by now... is that so hard ?.. do they use some kind of subliminal mind programming or what ? ... and then complain about biasing !?

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-announces-new-A-Series...

a b À AMD
a c 210 à CPUs
May 31, 2013 2:35:19 PM

de5_Roy said:
esrever said:
http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-05/amds-kaveri-apu...
looks like AMD roadmap still shows kaveri for 2013

heh, seems like xbitlabs link that i read and posted 'creatively modified' the leaked slides. :whistle:  others posted uncropped images. if i am to believe that, then kaveri is on track for 2013 release while steamroller opterons are gone (i.e. zero number of sr cpu). +NaCl

@richland: i can remember as far back as early trinity-rumors and roadmaps where 'richland' was shown as the codename for low end trinity a4 apus. >_> that was before multiple speculations (no 'leaks') of richland having pd cores with gcn igpu.... which settled on rl being trinity 1.05.


Opterons were pushed back in favor of getting the Opteron-X project on the ground as quickly as possible is what occurred as near as I can tell from the information coming out of AMD these days...(i.e. not much). Though, bright side of news stated that they suspected that opterons based on steamroller were not going to be this year when the slide was first leaked. The presentation itself was about opterons, but their take on it was that the technology of steamroller cores would be out in 2013, not necessarily opterons with them. Additionally, they commented that Kaveri may have some server use, and speculated that may be the other part of it that could be coming into play. SoC Opteron SKUs.
May 31, 2013 5:39:36 PM

de5_Roy said:

No.
because the first move(i.e. dropping cinebench and intel-biased benchmarks, especially synthetic ones) has to be from amd. and it has to be public and with irrefutable proof.


AMD, VIA, and Nvidia already abandoned BAPCO because of Sysmark bias. Cinebench is propietary.

hcl123 said:

Again, that doesn't solve the root issue, since internet is free speech, it only serves to polarize the discussions. AnandT is biased (many know), but on discussions pum! charts and numbers of AT are shoved in everybody faces, and ppl waste an enormous amount of time discussing it no matter what, meaning they use "willingful eager users" to do their fight for them, and you can't convince those otherwise so easily ; " AT bad ? you are trolling, and an AMD fanboy"... " no you are blind and an intel fanboy" ... " "no you are this... and this and that sucks" ... and worst and worst...

See what i mean ? ... leads to nowhere but very aggressive posts.

Politely exposed that those are not prove of evidence of any argument, don't click on them... and its not only AT, its the all review "business" that with current methodologies and instruments has a tremendous lack of meaning.

SOLUTION

Attack the message not the messengers...

if is *HARDWARE* that is to be measured than software must not change, or you'll have no reference points .

Which is *exactly* what happens now, benchmark software have no guaranties of anything not even origin, and since is "software" and prone to bugs and errors, you don't even know if the build x last month is the same of the build y this month(how many times did a bench failed on some test machine ? is it hardware fault or software ?), that is, it can change a lot to, voiding the all deal of consistency and meaning.

Ask for md5 signatures, at least you would know if there are any changes in those binaries.

That is THE ONLY THING that users can do, fight for immutable benchmark software, anything else you can't force no one to nothing (its not legal even).


Precisely, my main argument was not to trust review sites that use biased benchmarks.
a b À AMD
a c 210 à CPUs
May 31, 2013 5:51:04 PM

PARSEC is a really good alternative...it uses GCC and it's really under utilized outside of some private sector circles. The public would do well to learn more about it.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
May 31, 2013 9:58:25 PM


juanrga said:

AMD, VIA, and Nvidia already abandoned BAPCO because of Sysmark bias. Cinebench is propietary.
Spoiler

hcl123 said:

Again, that doesn't solve the root issue, since internet is free speech, it only serves to polarize the discussions. AnandT is biased (many know), but on discussions pum! charts and numbers of AT are shoved in everybody faces, and ppl waste an enormous amount of time discussing it no matter what, meaning they use "willingful eager users" to do their fight for them, and you can't convince those otherwise so easily ; " AT bad ? you are trolling, and an AMD fanboy"... " no you are blind and an intel fanboy" ... " "no you are this... and this and that sucks" ... and worst and worst...

See what i mean ? ... leads to nowhere but very aggressive posts.

Politely exposed that those are not prove of evidence of any argument, don't click on them... and its not only AT, its the all review "business" that with current methodologies and instruments has a tremendous lack of meaning.

SOLUTION

Attack the message not the messengers...

if is *HARDWARE* that is to be measured than software must not change, or you'll have no reference points .

Which is *exactly* what happens now, benchmark software have no guaranties of anything not even origin, and since is "software" and prone to bugs and errors, you don't even know if the build x last month is the same of the build y this month(how many times did a bench failed on some test machine ? is it hardware fault or software ?), that is, it can change a lot to, voiding the all deal of consistency and meaning.

Ask for md5 signatures, at least you would know if there are any changes in those binaries.

That is THE ONLY THING that users can do, fight for immutable benchmark software, anything else you can't force no one to nothing (its not legal even).


Precisely, my main argument was not to trust review sites that use biased benchmarks.


see, it's not that hard to do. what i was proposing was that amd should do something similar with cinebench. so what if it's proprietary? that's not the issue here. amd should tell people how cinebench skews bench results (tell in a discreet way), not ask maxon to change code or compiling process or anything else.
June 1, 2013 2:23:02 AM

but its easier to play the silent victim..
June 1, 2013 7:32:27 AM

Off topic:
For all those who wish they could overclock the haswell i3's with bclk... (if intel do the same with th i3 as the i5-i7 that is...) :

"That’d all be well and good if Intel was enabling this new level of flexibility for the folks who don’t spend extra on K-series parts, giving them the ability to pick higher BCLK settings without access to the ratio multiplier. However, the company instead chooses to restrict the ratios to the Core i7-4770K and i5-4670K—the same ones you can already overclock in 100 MHz increments. Anyone buying one of the 11 other SKUs in Intel’s new Core i7 and i5 line-up is out of luck."

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswe...
June 1, 2013 7:38:04 AM

I just want to say: Why is this such a huge thread?

Simple answer: Ranting about off topic things.

I'll sum up for everyone what they are complaining about:

In a performance aspect with prices out of the question, Nvidia and Intel are dominating the market.

With Prices in hand, they are about hand in hand, as wholes.

In conclusion, if you are on a tighter budget or want to use OpenCL, Bit Mine, or Video Edit, then hit up the AMD market.

If you have the money and you want kick-ass gaming for the performance, go for Intel and/or Nvidia.

Enough Said.

UPDATE: By the way, I encountered a problem with an AMD fan on a GAMING topic and he brought up Operating Systems and how AMD works better with these, his main point was Linux. Keep in mind, most of the World Population isn't a hardware geek and/or an intense gamer, so really the focus will be mostly Windows. Also that Linux is terrible with games.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
June 1, 2013 7:46:02 AM

well, damn. here i was hoping for an oc core i3 vs fx8350 match up.
although, i am glad i told tg to hold off buying a haswell core i3.... i think i did...
June 1, 2013 7:48:39 AM

de5_Roy said:
well, damn. here i was hoping for an oc core i3 vs fx8350 match up.
although, i am glad i told tg to hold off buying a haswell core i3.... i think i did...


Honestly, from the opinion of someone who favors Intel (since I'm more of a gamer and have the money), I really don't like the i3 series. Its good but, for the money, you could still get an FX-8350. The performance of the 8350, in terms of beating Intel and a overall performance grade, goes up to about the i5-3570k stock, really nothing more unless you OC it.

UPDATE: On your side, there are i3s that can reach 8350 performance and, for the most part, beat it, but at that point, you are water cooling with Ice inside a refrigerator.
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
June 1, 2013 7:55:10 AM

GOM3RPLY3R said:

Honestly, from the opinion of someone who favors Intel (since I'm more of a gamer and have the money), I really don't like the i3 series. Its good but, for the money, you could still get an FX-8350. The performance of the 8350, in terms of beating Intel and a overall performance grade, goes up to about the i5-3570k stock, really nothing more unless you OC it.

since mid-2012, i don't like core i3 or any intel dual core. it was fun in 2011 cuz zambezi was so funny. but for gaming, dual cores went out of favor (from games) last year... no reason to get one anymore. price became too high with ivb...
i was hoping if haswell would bring back some value in that segment but my hopes were dashed. intel u ebil.
June 1, 2013 8:01:33 AM

Yeah it kinda sucks. But hey, you can still get a i5-3570k for ~$220 and OC it to the performance of a i7-3770k stock (with possible Water Cooling). ^_^
June 1, 2013 8:34:15 AM

I will make the obvious distinction that HSW isnt much of an upgrade on Intel side, SR appears to be a better upgrade AMD side.
And most importantly of all is, on the GPU side, AMD is quite capable of matching or beating nVidia as they have every other release, as each takes the crown for a period of time.

So, if you think a grand for perf you wont see for 7 months is worth it, or for 600 less in other words, which is 30 some odd percent less in perf, bleeding edge is fine if you want to spend the dough, Im going to wait myself, dont uaually do bleeding edge, tho sometimes I cant help but to
June 1, 2013 8:44:39 AM

You are right, that it may be better, but we will have to wait and see.
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2013 9:05:37 AM

I thought Haswell was the Trinity killer, if anything a A10 5800k is looking better than it ever did. Iris better be amazing because Richland is on its way.
June 1, 2013 10:07:32 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I will make the obvious distinction that HSW isnt much of an upgrade on Intel side, SR appears to be a better upgrade AMD side.


Most importantly, how will a 4770K compare with a SR in raw CPU and "total platform energy consumption" metric.

June 1, 2013 10:09:29 AM

is intels poor iGPU perf a management issue, or a technical issue ?
June 1, 2013 10:27:23 AM

Both
They didnt put people in place that needed to be there, then when they did, we see commitment, but HW and drivers are way behind where they should be.
Im saying here theyve done well, but I bet asking some that have been around Intel for awhile knows this as well as feels it.
Theyve done well, its where theyre coming from thats the problem
June 1, 2013 10:33:26 AM

I don't know about anyone else, but I read the article on the i7-4770k Haswell Review.

It goes into depth with charts and analysis with the i7-4770k vs the 3770k, 2770k, and the A10-5800k.

The A10 does beat it on a lot of tests, but keep in mind the A10 is an APU, not just a CPU.
June 1, 2013 10:38:07 AM

Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

crystalwell is shared by both cpu and gpu.
June 1, 2013 10:40:53 AM

GOM3RPLY3R said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I read the article on the i7-4770k Haswell Review.

It goes into depth with charts and analysis with the i7-4770k vs the 3770k, 2770k, and the A10-5800k.

The A10 does beat it on a lot of tests, but keep in mind the A10 is an APU, not just a CPU.


To be honest I would say that Intels cpu are sort off like an apu.
June 1, 2013 10:47:41 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

crystalwell is shared by both cpu and gpu.


I would hope so, for a chip that costs 678 bucks or so, it had surely better, I just wonder if Intel will drop there pricing on these mobiles once something tastier from AMD comes out.
The cpu perf isnt nearly as important as it once was, and the gap is closing between AMD/Intel.
The new BGAs from AMD will handle much, remember its BGA, and the power savings there as well, just another tool AMD has to use against these 678$ chips
a b À AMD
a c 84 à CPUs
June 1, 2013 10:49:36 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

crystalwell is shared by both cpu and gpu.

a bit too enthusiastic. may be i am too underwhelmed after reading toms 4770k review... i dunno.
intel has once againt thrown away price/performance for perf/watt. i took one look at gt3 skus' prices and thought 'no way'. i like the efficiency though. intel has kept the perf/$$ door wide open for amd to run away with multiple wins. may be amd did the right thing delaying kaveri (especially mobile). may be.
June 1, 2013 10:50:49 AM

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/06/01/intel-outs-quad-core...

confusing lineup.
And the forced SKU making is... crippling. Suddenly the desktop K series part dont look so attractive

Quote:
I would hope so, for a chip that costs 678 bucks or so, it had surely better, I just wonder if Intel will drop there pricing on these mobiles once something tastier from AMD comes out.


My mind boggles at that $678 price. This is basically supreme disregard for the competition.
June 1, 2013 10:56:17 AM

I will say this once more.
We are in the good enough cpu days, already happening, much less attention for DT.
In mobile, its power usage that rules, and we are reaching the good enough for a work day plateau as well, or should I say Haswell?
What happens when power savings is good enough for most FF's?

Its 657$ my mistake, must be my dsylexia kickin in
June 1, 2013 11:04:02 AM

feeling depressed today.
Desktop Haswell K parts are an embarasment. CPU perf is same, GPU perf is mostly a smll bump. OC headroom is lesser. Doesnt have TX memory.
Notebook Haswell with GT3e is too expensive to buy.

And AMD cant seem to release Richland and Kaveri on time.
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2013 11:06:23 AM

Ranth said:
Off topic:
For all those who wish they could overclock the haswell i3's with bclk... (if intel do the same with th i3 as the i5-i7 that is...) :

"That’d all be well and good if Intel was enabling this new level of flexibility for the folks who don’t spend extra on K-series parts, giving them the ability to pick higher BCLK settings without access to the ratio multiplier. However, the company instead chooses to restrict the ratios to the Core i7-4770K and i5-4670K—the same ones you can already overclock in 100 MHz increments. Anyone buying one of the 11 other SKUs in Intel’s new Core i7 and i5 line-up is out of luck."

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswe...


de5_Roy said:
well, damn. here i was hoping for an oc core i3 vs fx8350 match up.
although, i am glad i told tg to hold off buying a haswell core i3.... i think i did...


:'(  intel broke my heart :'( 
June 1, 2013 11:34:59 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.


Ultraexpensive chip that offers a minor gain over Trinity, which is 20-30% slower than Richland, which is behind Kaveri, Kabini...


June 1, 2013 11:46:14 AM

And broadwell is 90% faster than GT3e. And Skylake is 135% better than Broadwell.
June 1, 2013 12:02:46 PM

mayankleoboy1 said:
feeling depressed today.
Desktop Haswell K parts are an embarasment. CPU perf is same, GPU perf is mostly a smll bump. OC headroom is lesser. Doesnt have TX memory.
Notebook Haswell with GT3e is too expensive to buy.

And AMD cant seem to release Richland and Kaveri on time.


Haswell desktop is just as waited: Failwell

The mobile chips are much more interesting but Richland already offers about that level of graphics performance by much much less money. Richland releases now in June.
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