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I5 2500k, 3570k or wait for Haswell?

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  • Intel i7
  • Intel i5
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Last response: in CPUs
November 5, 2012 12:17:35 PM

The question says it all. I do not want to dish out an extra $80-120 for an i7 and get very little performance improvements. That being said, do you think Haswell chips will also NOT be worth the price? I plan on using my computer for high end gaming and general use.

More about : 2500k 3570k wait haswell

a b à CPUs
November 5, 2012 12:27:11 PM

I use the 3570K and even with a slight OC, its plenty enough to handle games like BF3 and such. What games will you be playing andi can tell you what i recommend you get and WHY
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a c 881 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 12:30:56 PM

If you need a cpu now, buy it now.

Yes, haswell, when it arrives next spring, will be 10-20% better price performance than ivy bridge.

But, for your gaming needs, it is the graphics card that is all important.
Today, a 3570K is as good as it gets for gaming. Particularly when conservatively overclocked.
It will drive any graphics configuration well without a cpu bottleneck.
A i7 3770K is not any better because games today mostly use only 2-3 cores, making the hyperthreads of the i7 not very useful.
Save the $100 delta cost.

I see the 3570K as a 4 year chip for gamers.
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a b à CPUs
November 5, 2012 12:36:35 PM

If you've got a 2500K now then there is absolutely no point in upgrading to Ivy Bridge and even Haswell.
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November 5, 2012 12:54:39 PM

You also need to consider the possibility of faulty chipsets like what SandyBridge had with b1 b2 chipsets. A 3570k, if not a 3470 is more than enough for 1080p gaming needs as long as you have a good GPU.
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November 5, 2012 1:19:48 PM

It depends on what CPU you have now. I am still sitting on an aging AMD phenom II 955 and a pair of GTX 470s, and at 1080p any game I play runs fine. I am waiting for some games to come out that don't run fine before I upgrade. This will probably happen when the next gen stuff comes out.

My point is, if you have games you want to play now that do not run well, it might be time to upgrade, but you don't need to upgrade needlessly.
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November 5, 2012 1:30:55 PM

Currently, I have no CPU (I have not started my build yet). I plan on using my rig for high end gaming, and general use. I also plan on overclocking, with this fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168....

So the general consensus is that Haswell will not be a major breakthrough in the gaming sector?
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November 5, 2012 1:40:11 PM

I guess just get a 2500k and overclock the F!@K out of it because MAYBE the 22nm Haswell will heat up like the 22nm Ivy Bridge?!
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a c 308 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 1:40:46 PM

The general concensus is that very few games in the foreseeable future are likely to be a problem for the i5-25xx/34xx/35xx so there is no point in waiting if you want/need it now.
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a c 881 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 1:50:24 PM

arcticle said:
Currently, I have no CPU (I have not started my build yet). I plan on using my rig for high end gaming, and general use. I also plan on overclocking, with this fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168....

So the general consensus is that Haswell will not be a major breakthrough in the gaming sector?


Your fan link does not work for me.

For a cpu cooler, something like a $30 cm hyper212 will do the job for a conservative overclock.
$80 will buy you a top air cooler like a noctua NH-D14, or phanteks.
It will give you about 0.2 ghz more than the hyper212.
When installed in a decent cooling case, the noctua and phanteks will cool just as well as the all in one liquid coolers.
It will be quieter and more reliable too.

But, for a top end gaming rig, concentrate on the graphics first.
For a single monitor, a GTX670 or GTX680 is about as good as it gets.
For triple monitors, then consider sli.
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November 5, 2012 1:52:59 PM

Okay then, we have Haswell out of the way - It is between the i5 2500k and 3570k. Now, I know the i5 is much more overclockable, however, seeing that I am using only a fan, does it even matter? I highly doubt I can top 4.5 ghz.

Also, will any technology improvements that the 3570k has over the 2500k impact gaming performance or general computing speed? I will be purchasing a Z77 motherboard. This one to be exact! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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November 5, 2012 1:54:40 PM

That link that did not work WAS the 212 actually. I plan on putting in in a CM HAF XM case.
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a b à CPUs
November 5, 2012 2:21:23 PM

Everyone makes out like Ivy bridge gets hot.. but its only hotter than Sandy bridge when you run Prime 95. Now I don't know about everyone else but i don't run prime every time i cut on my computer. So therefore my temps are fine. Hell i have seen 19c just in the last few days WITH a overclock of 4.4GHZ
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a c 308 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 2:36:32 PM

Rockdpm said:
So therefore my temps are fine. Hell i have seen 19c just in the last few days WITH a overclock of 4.4GHZ

Unless your room temperature is under 10C, you aren't going to see REAL 19C core temp unless you are using a chilled liquid loop or other form of below-ambient cooling.

Thermal sensors/diodes inside CPUs are non-calibrated and wildly non-linear below 35C.

Also, overclocking does not do you much good if you only use it in C3/C6 sleep state.
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a b à CPUs
November 5, 2012 2:59:09 PM

Ill tell you my secret.... I keep my room freezing all year around... there. thats all i do. No custom loop. no phase changer. Just a Corsair "A" 70 cpu cooler and a very cool room
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a c 881 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 3:09:18 PM

The 3570K only gets hot when the voltage is increased to high levels.
The higher density 22nm does not dissipate heat as well as the 32nm in sandy bridge.
At normal levels, it actually runs cooler.
That means that you can do 4.3 without any voltage increase. Perhaps more.
But, the big benefit of ivy bridge ove sandy is that the better architecture gives you more work per clock cycle.
How much depends, but 10-15% might be a reasonable number.

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a c 308 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 7:04:14 PM

geofelt said:
But, the big benefit of ivy bridge ove sandy is that the better architecture gives you more work per clock cycle.
How much depends, but 10-15% might be a reasonable number.

Ivy Bridge is rarely more than 8% faster than Sandy Bridge. 5-7% is more typical.
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November 5, 2012 8:05:30 PM

arcticle said:
Okay then, we have Haswell out of the way - It is between the i5 2500k and 3570k. Now, I know the i5 is much more overclockable, however, seeing that I am using only a fan, does it even matter? I highly doubt I can top 4.5 ghz.


Those are both i5s. i5 is a family of processors there is a family of i5s every generation of processors.
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a c 881 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 8:36:42 PM

InvalidError said:
Ivy Bridge is rarely more than 8% faster than Sandy Bridge. 5-7% is more typical.

You might be corrrect; I can't remember.
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a b à CPUs
November 5, 2012 10:27:07 PM

monkeymonk said:
Those are both i5s. i5 is a family of processors there is a family of i5s every generation of processors.

Gee... I wonder who this "MonkeyMonk" character is....Mal..... :hello: 
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a c 308 à CPUs
November 5, 2012 10:36:07 PM

geofelt said:
You might be corrrect; I can't remember.

The newest CPUs where the 10-15% improvement does apply is AMD's piledrivers and trinity which are significant overhauls of their respective predecessors.

IB is a die shrink with beefier IGP and minor tweaks in the CPU ("tock+"). Intel themselves said not to expect much IPC improvement from it when it was announced. The "tick" (new architecture) with major overhauls and associated expectations of significant performance improvement will come in 2013 with Haswell.
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a c 638 à CPUs
November 6, 2012 3:34:02 AM

I don't believe the performance difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge (assume same clock speed) will be above 10%, with the exception of the new iGPU which may be around 20% - 30% better than the Intel HD 4000. There will be 3 versions; GT1, GT2 and GT3. GT3 will be the most powerful, but will only be offered in the mobile version of Haswell.

Intel's objective is to reduce power consumption since they also intend on using Haswell for mobile devices (tablets, but not smartphones) where power consumption is a major concern. The GT3 version of their next iGPU will have 40 shaders, if the next iGPU were to be clocked at 1.2GHz (like in the current mobile Ivy Bridge CPUs), then GT3 would be very powerful. However, Intel is using the shaders to actually reduce power by lowering the iGPU clock speed to 700MHz or 800MHz. Therefore, the expected increase in mobile iGPU performance is expected to be 20% - 30%.

It won't be until 2014 when Broadwell is released that there will likely be a large increase in performance. Broadwell will be based on the 14nm die process which means potential further reduction in power consumption. At this point in time Intel can increase the core speeds and still maintain good power consumption. Presumably, IPC (Instructions Per Cycle) will increase from Haswell which will further improve performance.
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a b à CPUs
November 6, 2012 3:57:37 AM

Wait for Haswell :) 
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a c 308 à CPUs
November 6, 2012 10:42:01 AM

jaguarskx said:
It won't be until 2014 when Broadwell is released that there will likely be a large increase in performance. Broadwell will be based on the 14nm die process which means potential further reduction in power consumption. At this point in time Intel can increase the core speeds and still maintain good power consumption. Presumably, IPC (Instructions Per Cycle) will increase from Haswell which will further improve performance.

Haswell is the 'tick' (new architecture) that is supposed to bring IPC and other architectural improvements. Broadwell is only a 'tock" (process shrink) which means it should not have any major improvements except maybe new IGPs and the expected integrated (MCP) IO hub.

Ivy Bridge is a 'tock+' (die shrink, new transistors, new IGP, other minor tweaks) and did not bring much in terms of extra clock speeds and IPC so there isn't much of a reason to expect a major jump (except for IGP) from Haswell to Broadwell.
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November 6, 2012 11:06:52 AM

Get the Ivy one. (3570k)
You're about to get a beefy cooler anyways, and though Ivy bridge supposedly does not support as high clocks as Sandy, (because of the heat) It's faster in clock-for clock, so it's about the same as the 2500k, only newer generation, with its flips and flaws. (i.e. PCI express 3.0)
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a b à CPUs
November 6, 2012 2:05:21 PM

yep get the ivy since you would get PCI-e 3.0 support and higher ram speed compatibility.

Ivy is also 6% faster than sandy but it does get hotter due to intels tri-gate 3d transistors
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a c 308 à CPUs
November 6, 2012 2:17:18 PM

jaideep1337 said:
Ivy is also 6% faster than sandy but it does get hotter due to intels tri-gate 3d transistors

Ivy gets hotter due to higher power density (more watts per mm^2 of die area) and paste instead of solder between the die and IHS.

The tri-gate transistors and die shrink reduce power and heat output which would have otherwise made Ivy run cooler.
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a c 638 à CPUs
November 7, 2012 1:11:57 AM

InvalidError said:
Haswell is the 'tick' (new architecture) that is supposed to bring IPC and other architectural improvements. Broadwell is only a 'tock" (process shrink) which means it should not have any major improvements except maybe new IGPs and the expected integrated (MCP) IO hub.

Ivy Bridge is a 'tock+' (die shrink, new transistors, new IGP, other minor tweaks) and did not bring much in terms of extra clock speeds and IPC so there isn't much of a reason to expect a major jump (except for IGP) from Haswell to Broadwell.


Generally true about "tick" and "tock", but I think Intel is flipping it for Haswell and Broadwell. In terms of personal computing, the market is moving away from desktops and even laptops to the mobile device segment which includes tablets and smartphones. Sure Intel has Atom CPUs for tablets and they are dogs, not even worth putting into smartphones. Haswell will be focused on power consumption rather than performance so that they can be used in tablets. But I really doubt a Haswell CPU will ever make it into a smartphone, Intel needs to further reduce power to get into that market segment. They are working on low power consuming 48 core CPU for smartphones which was announced last week, but they do not think it will be ready for another 5 to 10 years.

The die shrink set for Broadwell will allow Intel to increase performance of their CPU and iGPU cores while maintaining or further reducing power consumption. I believe it is in Intel's best interest to be able to enter the tablet market segment will a good performing CPU since Apple and Samsung has a good leg up on Intel. Texas Instruments (TXN) decided exits out of the tablet and smartphone processor market (called SoC - System on Chip) because the amount of competition out there means that the SoC business will not generate as much revenue as TXN would like. Amazon is currently trying to strike a deal with TXN for the SoC business. It would further diversify Amazon, they will be able reduce the cost of the Kindles since those things uses SoC developed by TXN. Kindle's main competitor the Nook from Barnes & Nobles also uses TXN's SoC. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Amazon is able to buyout TXN's SoC division.
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a c 308 à CPUs
November 7, 2012 1:27:28 AM

jaguarskx said:
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Amazon is able to buyout TXN's SoC division.

Probably not much. Amazon would still have to fulfill existing contracts for current and near-future products which should give B&N plenty of time to source ARM chips from some other vendor for whatever comes after that.
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a c 638 à CPUs
November 7, 2012 1:46:14 AM

One of three things...

1. Honor TXN's contracts and not raise prices.
2. Raise prices.
3. Deny B&N future purchases of the SoC. Very unlikely since it is a revenue stream.
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