Framerates

[dj_crossbones]

I just have a quick question here, I see a lot of talk about I get 60fps or 200fps or whatever, is this really so important when movies are 24fps and thats all the eye needs to see a moving image? Why is it so important to people to get such high frame rates in a game? I could understand getting less and seeing some stutter but technically if a game stays above 24fps shouldn't that be good enough?

 

[inzone]

In computer gaming the best possible fos that you can enjoy viewing is 60fps and people like to have higher because in gaming when there is a lot of action , like explosions and people running all together in a group fighting then the fps tends to drop. So if you have a high fps to begin with then the drop won't be so noticeable as in droping from 90 fps down to 70 or 60. The higher the fps the higher the quality of the video card since it takes a more powerful card to produce the higher fps then again when there's a lot of action thwere also won't be any freezing or stuttering of the video. I guess it's just not as controled as a movie in which all the action is captured on film and each frame has a certian amount of video picture and you can then run that film at a steady fps and no matter what is happening on the screen it's not affected by the action.
So in movies there is control while in internet gameplay there is no control. I hope I have explained it right and not confused you further.

 

[photonboy]

The human eye can distinguish up to approximately 200FPS.

24FPS (FILM) has to correct the very low frame rate by artificially adding motion blur to faster moving scenes so it seems correct.

48FPS (FILM) will be the new standard. The new Hobbitt movie is being filmed at 48FPS so not only will it seem a lot smoother but they don't have to add as much motion blur so it's much clearer. It will be very odd to watch but once you get used to it you won't want to go back.

60FPS for gaming is common. The faster the action (you turn your gun really quick) the more frames you want per second for it to feel smooth. Remember you can turn around in a quarter of a second.

30FPS is common for top-down gaming. Command and Conquer 3 caps at 30FPS and it works great. This is because you are panning fairly slowly, not turning quickly like in a shooter.

VSYNC is the method of synchronizing each drawn frame by the graphics card with the monitor so you don't get screen tearing by starting the new screen refresh partway down the screen.

What's the ideal method for gaming?

Using NVidia's Adaptive VSYNC and running at 60FPS should generally be the standard. This driver update disables VSYNC once you drop below 60FPS. So let's say you drop from 60FPS to 55FPS; normally you'd get a big stutter as VSYNC then forces synching at 30FPS instead. With Adaptive VSYNC you get 60FPS with no screen tearing and if you drop to 55FPS you get screen tearing (VSYNC is off) but no sudden stutter.

3D:
120Hz computer monitors can display up to 120Hz rather than 60Hz so you can play games at 120Hz without 3D (if your computer can manage it).

With 3D the effective experience is actually 60Hz again. With the active shutter glasses, the left eye is BLOCKED when the image for the right eye is displayed and vice versa. So each eye only gets every other frame.

Apparently 3D is too dark if you don't have a specific type of monitor that knows to increase the brightness when you are in 3D mode (due to blocking each eye half the time).

 

[dj_crossbones]

The human eye can distinguish up to approximately 200FPS.

24FPS (FILM) has to correct the very low frame rate by artificially adding motion blur to faster moving scenes so it seems correct.

48FPS (FILM) will be the new standard. The new Hobbitt movie is being filmed at 48FPS so not only will it seem a lot smoother but they don't have to add as much motion blur so it's much clearer. It will be very odd to watch but once you get used to it you won't want to go back.

60FPS for gaming is common. The faster the action (you turn your gun really quick) the more frames you want per second for it to feel smooth. Remember you can turn around in a quarter of a second.

30FPS is common for top-down gaming. Command and Conquer 3 caps at 30FPS and it works great. This is because you are panning fairly slowly, not turning quickly like in a shooter.

VSYNC is the method of synchronizing each drawn frame by the graphics card with the monitor so you don't get screen tearing by starting the new screen refresh partway down the screen.

What's the ideal method for gaming?

Using NVidia's Adaptive VSYNC and running at 60FPS should generally be the standard. This driver update disables VSYNC once you drop below 60FPS. So let's say you drop from 60FPS to 55FPS; normally you'd get a big stutter as VSYNC then forces synching at 30FPS instead. With Adaptive VSYNC you get 60FPS with no screen tearing and if you drop to 55FPS you get screen tearing (VSYNC is off) but no sudden stutter.

3D:
120Hz computer monitors can display up to 120Hz rather than 60Hz so you can play games at 120Hz without 3D (if your computer can manage it).

With 3D the effective experience is actually 60Hz again. With the active shutter glasses, the left eye is BLOCKED when the image for the right eye is displayed and vice versa. So each eye only gets every other frame.

Apparently 3D is too dark if you don't have a specific type of monitor that knows to increase the brightness when you are in 3D mode (due to blocking each eye half the time).

Thanks that answers a lot, can you tell me what the max framerate could be in a new release game per say? Just curious, and if I understand you right when someone says let's say on a website that they bought a new card and got a 120 fps in a game or 150 fps is that a bunch of bull, sorry to ask here I just have never actually researched this.

 

[welshmousepk]

Thanks that answers a lot, can you tell me what the max framerate could be in a new release game per say? Just curious, and if I understand you right when someone says let's say on a website that they bought a new card and got a 120 fps in a game or 150 fps is that a bunch of bull, sorry to ask here I just have never actually researched this.

That would depend completely on the game, the video card, and the settings.

the whole reason we buy expensive cards is that we can play the latest games at max settings and still get the highest possible frame rate.

high framerates is also much more about the FEEL than the LOOK.

a game rendered at 120fps (even on a 60hz monitor) will feel much smoother and more responsive.

but in general, 60fps is when its considered to look 'smooth' and lifelike.

 

[bystander]

There is another added element with gaming and FPS; latency. When you have lower FPS, you have a little more time before an image is drawn on the screen in reaction to your movement. This latency not only affects your ability to aim and react, but for some of us, causes motion sickness.

I find 1st person games make me nauseous very rapidly if my FPS are below 40-50. The higher my FPS, the more fluid everything feels and the less motion sickness I feel. For it to pretty much not make me sick at all, I need about 90 FPS. Using a 120hz monitor helps in this regard, because I can have v-sync and high FPS.

I've also been gaming in 3D Vision for a while now. I really love it, but your FPS are cut in half...or at least that is how it's shown. 60 FPS per eye. The reality is, because each eye gets alternating frames at 60 FPS, it actually feels smoother than 60 FPS, although it doesn't really feel as smooth as 120 FPS either. I've never seen studies on it, but I have seen reviewers mention the same thing.

 

[welshmousepk]

I've also been gaming in 3D Vision for a while now. I really love it, but your FPS are cut in half...or at least that is how it's shown. 60 FPS per eye. The reality is, because each eye gets alternating frames at 60 FPS, it actually feels smoother than 60 FPS, although it doesn't really feel as smooth as 120 FPS either. I've never seen studies on it, but I have seen reviewers mention the same thing.

this is fairly obvious, but it does go relatively untalked about. even though you still only get 60 distinct frames rendered when running in 3d, you still get two frames per eye, totaling 120fps combined.

While it certainly isn't the same as a distinct 120 frames, I imagine its something akin to the sub-field motion drivers you get in high end TVs.
getting more frames per second, even the same frames, makes the motion seem smoother.

 

[dj_crossbones]

This has been great info, I have been building computers for myself for about 10 years now, I built the first one with my cousin at his computer store and then I have been upgrading ever since. I suck at first person shooter games so I stay away from them but I love racing games. During this thread I shelled out the money for fraps so I can start checking framerates in my games. Don't hate on me but I have been using amd cpu's for awhile now and want to see is it my video card causing stutter or my cpu. Please don't turn this into an amd vs intel battle thread, I would tell you personally from what I read I know intel is in the lead and I feel that 3DMark11 shows that the intel platform is the way to go someday I may go to that but for now I enjoy my amd 1090t. Tuesday my evga 580 classified arrives and this is the most powerful video card that I have ever owned (I fried my 560ti by stupidity) and I am very curious what kind of performance I will get in test drive unlimited 2. I have been looking at a 32" 3D monitor and may give that a shot later on this year, I think it would be nice to be able to use the in car camera and see what kind of depth you get from the 3D effect! I would like to say thanks to all you guys for the great information, this has really cleared up a lot for me.

 

[bystander]

Are you sure that 32" 3D "monitor" is not actually a TV? I have not heard of anything larger than 27" for 3D monitors. It is very important to make sure you will be able to game at 1080p with 60hz per eye. 3D TV's do not allow you to do that, unless they are passive, which have other issues.

You'll want to get a 3D Vision (2) ready monitor since you have been going Nvidia. I personally love 3D Vision, so I give that plan a thumbs up.

 

[dj_crossbones]

Are you sure that 32" 3D "monitor" is not actually a TV? I have not heard of anything larger than 27" for 3D monitors. It is very important to make sure you will be able to game at 1080p with 60hz per eye. 3D TV's do not allow you to do that, unless they are passive, which have other issues.

You'll want to get a 3D Vision (2) ready monitor since you have been going Nvidia. I personally love 3D Vision, so I give that plan a thumbs up.

Yes it is a tv, I thought using the hdmi out on the card to the tv would yield the same results.

 

[bystander]

With HDMI, you'd be limited to 720p or 30hz.

 

[inzone]

With the 580 classified you will be able to have the highest settings in the game and the other thing with Evga products is you get the Evga Precision software which will give you the ability to monitor every aspect of the card from fan speeds to fps and it will be very easy to overclock with that software. You can make clock adjustments as well as voltage adjustments , the Classified cards are made to be overclocked to even 1000mhz core clock and you can with some effort take it higher. A good thing to do is go to the Evga site and read up on the Classified and what you can do with it. Did you get the regular Classified or the Ultra Classified version? Myself I'm waiting for the 680 Classified Hydro Copper.

 

[dj_crossbones]

With the 580 classified you will be able to have the highest settings in the game and the other thing with Evga products is you get the Evga Precision software which will give you the ability to monitor every aspect of the card from fan speeds to fps and it will be very easy to overclock with that software. You can make clock adjustments as well as voltage adjustments , the Classified cards are made to be overclocked to even 1000mhz core clock and you can with some effort take it higher. A good thing to do is go to the Evga site and read up on the Classified and what you can do with it. Did you get the regular Classified or the Ultra Classified version? Myself I'm waiting for the 680 Classified Hydro Copper.

It's the ultra, I get it tuesday and I am pretty excited, would love to have the 680 but it looks like the supply is really low and the 690 makes me drool but sadly I can not afford a 1000+ card

 

[dj_crossbones]

With HDMI, you'd be limited to 720p or 30hz.

Do you mind me asking what you paid for the acer 27" 3D monitor?

 

[bystander]

A single 580 will not max out a lot of games in 3D. I have a 680 and I often have to lower settings to play in 3D Vision. It's ok, as some of those settings aren't needed with 3D (DoF for example) and AA doesn't seem as bad in 3D either.

 

[bystander]

Do you mind me asking what you paid for the acer 27" 3D monitor?

I got it last year for about $700. I believe they go for about $600 today, but if I were to get a monitor today, I'd get an ASUS 3D Vision 2 monitor. The new spec makes things brighter, though this Acer isn't bad, it had a lot higher brightness than most at the time and it automatically goes into max brightness mode when 3D is activated.

 

[inzone]

A single 580 will not max out a lot of games in 3D. I have a 680 and I often have to lower settings to play in 3D Vision. It's ok, as some of those settings are needed with 3D (DoF for example) and AA doesn't seem as bad in 3D either.

Sorry I wasn't talking about 3D.

 

[dj_crossbones]

LOL looks like I am stuck with 2D for a while then, I enjoy it I have a lot of need for speed titles and thats what got me into this whole mess anyways, I always loved the fact that the pc version had a better resolution setting than the ol ps2 games. It will happen eventually that I sli something down the road, 3D is cool, but I would like to see also some of the new resolutions that are taking place and how this plays out, I try not to jump on anything to fast, vista was my first big mistake, I like for a product to be out for a little bit and see what people have to say now instead of getting the latest thing other than graphic cards themselves, I felt this was a good choice on the amd bulldozer chip, I must say tho my next mobo combo will be the intel platform, them darn I7's just seem to be the icing on the cake when your doing a serious gaming rig.

 

[dj_crossbones]

Thanks guys the info has been very helpful.

 

[dj_crossbones]

Best answer selected by dj_crossbones.