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Will Corsair PSU work with non-sinwave (square wave) UPS ?

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November 8, 2012 2:34:10 PM

Hello,

I have a UPS, the official specification of which is listed here -

http://www.intextechnologies.com/webpages/productcomper...

My UPS under battery mode outputs square wave waveform as stated in the official specification.

I am plaaning to buy CORSAIR PSU either one of these -

http://www.flipkart.com/corsair-cmpsu-430cxv2uk-430-wat...

or

http://www.flipkart.com/corsair-vs450-450-watts-psu/p/i...

My current rig is as follows -

Motherboard - Intel DH61WW

Processor - i3-2100 3.10 MHZ

RAM - 2 X 4 GB DDR3

Video Card - Sapphire ATI RADEON HD 7750 1GB DDR5

Hard Disk - 1 TB SATA Western Digital

Removable Drives - 1 DVD Writer

My question is will any of those corsair PSU model work without any hassle, considering my UPS outputs square wave waveform under battery mode ?

If not, then what will be suitable for me ? Please advice.





a c 694 ) Power supply
November 8, 2012 3:10:48 PM

I have not seen any issues with Corsair PSU's on UPS's like some other ones.
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November 8, 2012 3:19:19 PM

@rolli59: So do you think any of those above mentioned CORSAIR PSUs (with Active PFC ) will not shut down when the UPS supplies non sine wave waveform under battery mode ? Please confirm.

Which one of the models do you suggest to be better
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a c 694 ) Power supply
November 8, 2012 4:42:59 PM

There is no warning on Corsair's site what type UPS the PSU is hooked to. Normally that means they will work http://www.corsair.com/us/power-supply-units/cx-series-...
The VS450 is not available on my market so I can not comment on it but the CX430 is well known quality budget unit.
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a b ) Power supply
November 8, 2012 5:03:20 PM



Actually APFC circuits in any PSU are susceptible to non-sine wave that generated by backup UPS..

If you use it for a long time, it will damage your PSU apfc circuit,
in other word,
will damage your PSU... :) 

But, will it work..?
Yes..

but don't use it for a long time (more than 5 minutes)..

Main purpose of backup UPS just to give you time to save your work and shut down the computer...
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November 8, 2012 5:27:12 PM

@Quaddro: I use the UPS backup facility not for working but for shutting down the pc properly during power outage - which does not take me more than 5 minutes.
Today my Chinese make 500 W PSU's fan stopped rotating.
So I am thinking of buying Corsair CX 430. But my question is in my locality the voltage of the power ( that I get from wall's socket ) sometime goes down very low for few seconds and then my UPS goes into backup mode and I can hear a sudden Windows 7 buzz sound in my speakers and mouse gets stuck for 1 or 2 seconds and then everything comes becomes normal. So wondering if my UPS killed my 1 year old PSU's fan and if Corsair will get killed too by this non-sine wave UPS of mine.

@rolli59: Is there a Corsair CX 430 version 2 ? Does it differ from the one shown in the above links ?
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a c 694 ) Power supply
November 8, 2012 5:32:16 PM

Tom_100 said:
@Quaddro: I use the UPS backup facility not for working but for shutting down the pc properly during power outage - which does not take me more than 5 minutes.
Today my Chinese make 500 W PSU's fan stopped rotating.
So I am thinking of buying Corsair CX 430. But my question is in my locality the voltage of the power ( that I get from wall's socket ) sometime goes down very low for few seconds and then my UPS goes into backup mode and I can hear a sudden Windows 7 buzz sound in my speakers and mouse gets stuck for 1 or 2 seconds and then everything comes becomes normal. So wondering if my UPS killed my 1 year old PSU's fan and if Corsair will get killed too by this non-sine wave UPS of mine.

@rolli59: Is there a Corsair CX 430 version 2 ? Does it differ from the one shown in the above links ?

Here is the other version I belief very similar http://www.corsair.com/en/power-supply-units/cx-series-...
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a b ) Power supply
November 8, 2012 6:08:26 PM

Tom_100 said:
@Quaddro: I use the UPS backup facility not for working but for shutting down the pc properly during power outage - which does not take me more than 5 minutes.
Today my Chinese make 500 W PSU's fan stopped rotating.
So I am thinking of buying Corsair CX 430. But my question is in my locality the voltage of the power ( that I get from wall's socket ) sometime goes down very low for few seconds and then my UPS goes into backup mode and I can hear a sudden Windows 7 buzz sound in my speakers and mouse gets stuck for 1 or 2 seconds and then everything comes becomes normal. So wondering if my UPS killed my 1 year old PSU's fan and if Corsair will get killed too by this non-sine wave UPS of mine.?



Okay,

Quick and dirty analysis..:D 

what is kill your psu is not your ups..
But your Primary Power Source (electricity from the wall)..

Tom_100 said:
in my locality the voltage of the power ( that I get from wall's socket ) sometime goes down very low for few seconds


this is what we called Voltage Brownout / Sag
This voltage drop can be up to half of what it should be, and time is only a mili second.
Brownout is more likely to cause problems than Blackout (electricity shutdown).
Cheap UPS can not necessarily overcome this brown out problem..

why...?

when brown ouut happening, the switch inside ups still in the power source mode, not in battery mode..that's means your ups still delivers bad quality electrical power from the wall, not from battery..
and and it's damaging your psu...

So how to solve this problem...?

Just put a (good) power stabilizer between your ups and your psu...
it will stabilize your ups output, and make sure that your psu receive the appropriate voltage..

simple diagram (sorry, i'm not good in drawing :D  )

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a c 121 ) Power supply
November 8, 2012 6:31:59 PM

AFAIK, many Seasonic-built APFC PSUs will actually work on a stepped square wave. It is the Delta-built Antecs (and some others) like my SG-650 that REQUIRE sine-wave power, or they shut down, sensing bad input power.
The ORIGINAL Corsair Builder was made by Seasonic. If that's the one you can get, it's a decent choice. The V2 version, however, is made by CWT using Samxon capacitors from an inferior line known to experience early failure. They test well, but won't hold up. I can provide links to support this assertion if desired. In any case, I would not buy one, so I can't ethically recommend anyone else buy it.
Edit: Incidentally, most "budget" UPS units from reputable sources (e.g. APC, Tripplite) will switch to battery if the input voltage drops below ~88-92 VAC (presumably twice that on 230V models); so they DO offer some brownout protection.
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November 9, 2012 9:43:53 AM

Hmmm ........ so there is is this new thing that I must take into account now - "The brown out problem". I thought any UPS has got stabilization circuit as well.
I had the notion that when the wall socket voltage drops below workable level for few seconds - the UPS circuit will automatically switch to battery mode detecting the voltage drop.

So Seasonic models will be a better choice for a UPS that outputs stepped square wave during battery mode ?

"Just put a (good) power stabilizer between your ups and your psu...
it will stabilize your ups output, and make sure that your psu receive the appropriate voltage.. "

What models do you suggest for voltage stabilizer to be fitted in between the UPS and the PC's PSU ? Will the stabilizer convert the square wave outputted by the UPS during voltage drop or power failure to normal Sine wave ?
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a b ) Power supply
November 9, 2012 11:33:13 AM

Tom_100 said:

I had the notion that when the wall socket voltage drops below workable level for few seconds - the UPS circuit will automatically switch to battery mode detecting the voltage drop.

Yes.
but during brownout, voltage up and down very fast..

for example in 220v wall output
lowest lever for an ups to work in battery mode is 170v
during brown out, voltage from the wall actually up and down with very fast, say it around 130v-180v..

it's give no chance to switch to decide if it work in power source mode or battery mode..


Tom_100 said:
I thought any UPS has got stabilization circuit as well.


Stabilizer function in the cheap backup ups actually just make output worse..

Tom_100 said:

What models do you suggest for voltage stabilizer to be fitted in between the UPS and the PC's PSU ?


Any stabilizer equipped with get ( constant voltage transformer ) or servo stabilizer from any good manufacturer will do this job..


Tom_100 said:

Will the stabilizer convert the square wave outputted by the UPS during voltage drop or power failure to normal Sine wave ?


no, stabilizer is designed to automatically maintain a constant voltage level..but not to convert your square wave to the sine wave.


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November 9, 2012 2:04:02 PM

Is there any chance of the stabilizer getting damaged by the square wave output from the UPS during battery mode ? Secondly my UPS can officially handle 360 Watt. So my question is how much will the stabilizer consume ? I have already got a 21.5 inch LED Philips monitor and the 500 Watt PSU ( of my PC ) attached to the UPS. Will the UPS be able to withstand all the load ?

If you can recommend brands and model names and related web page links it would be help ful for me to find a suitable one in the local market. Is there anything that I should check in the stabilizer specification to be sure it will work smoothly with PC ? I have seen people using stabilizers for refrigerators but do not know whether those models will work
with PC.
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a b ) Power supply
November 9, 2012 5:42:26 PM

Tom_100 said:
Is there any chance of the stabilizer getting damaged by the square wave output from the UPS during battery mode ?


Yes..but it takes long time to damage it..so don't worry..:) 
Stabilizer, like apfc psu, designed to work with pure sinewave..

Tom_100 said:
Secondly my UPS can officially handle 360 Watt. So my question is how much will the stabilizer consume ? I have already got a 21.5 inch LED Philips monitor and the 500 Watt PSU ( of my PC ) attached to the UPS. Will the UPS be able to withstand all the load ?

[/quotemsg]

according to your information, your system consume roughly 250-275 watt in full load..
+ 20-30 watt monitor..
total 270-300 watt..

actually, yes, it will work..(but just for save your work and shutdown your computer)

Tom_100 said:
If you can recommend brands and model names and related web page links it would be help ful for me to find a suitable one in the local market. Is there anything that I should check in the stabilizer specification to be sure it will work smoothly with PC ? I have seen people using stabilizers for refrigerators but do not know whether those models will work
with PC.


APC LE600I is an example for a good stabilizer..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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November 9, 2012 6:17:23 PM

What if I go for a non APFC PSU like iBall Sprinter 450, will it be immune to the square wave output from UPS during back up time ?
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a b ) Power supply
November 9, 2012 6:56:27 PM

Tom_100 said:
What if I go for a non APFC PSU like iBall Sprinter 450, will it be immune to the square wave output from UPS during back up time ?


yes, ppfc psu is less vulnerable to square sinewave than apfc..

why?

non pfc psu arena does not have a regular monitoring found on psu APFC.
In this case pfc monitoring IC is the most influential in order to detecting the input signals if it is pure sine wave, step sine wave or simulated sine wave..

but, since you using your computer less than 2 minutes in order to save your work and shutdown your computer, it will no effect even if you using apfc psu..

Okay..if you insist to use ppfc psu..
Btw
what is iBall sprinter..?
i never heard that psu brand..

Dont ever use unknow brand psu, most of it has fake wattage label, unstable rail stability and horrible ripple..

There are many good ppfc psu, such
as acbell 420/470,
Rosewill RP500-2 500W (http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...),

and many others..
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a c 1167 ) Power supply
November 9, 2012 8:31:13 PM

Tom_100 said:
Is there any chance of the stabilizer getting damaged by the square wave output from the UPS during battery mode ? Secondly my UPS can officially handle 360 Watt. So my question is how much will the stabilizer consume ? I have already got a 21.5 inch LED Philips monitor and the 500 Watt PSU ( of my PC ) attached to the UPS. Will the UPS be able to withstand all the load ?

If you can recommend brands and model names and related web page links it would be help ful for me to find a suitable one in the local market. Is there anything that I should check in the stabilizer specification to be sure it will work smoothly with PC ? I have seen people using stabilizers for refrigerators but do not know whether those models will work
with PC.

Stabilizers are usually over 95% efficient so you should be able to get 340 Watts to your attached devices.

http://www.ebay.in/itm/270883992879
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a c 121 ) Power supply
November 9, 2012 9:25:02 PM

Most decent UPS units, such as APC, once switched to battery, will remain on battery until the input voltage has stabilized. I believe a five-second period is common. The rapid swings that can occur during a power problem thus won't make it through to your PC.
AFAIK, "iBall" is not a quality PSU.
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November 10, 2012 10:50:52 AM

"what is iBall sprinter..?
i never heard that psu brand.. "

Here is listing - http://www.homeshop18.com/iball-sprinter-genuine-450-wa...

Here is the main company website - www.iball.co.in

@ko888 and @Onus - thank you for your advice and suggestion.

@Quaddro: If I buy CorsAir CX 430 or VS 450 or Cooler Master Thunder 450 which all have got Active PFC circuits will they shut down my PC when they detect square waveform output from my UPS under battery mode during power outage ? If that is true then it will not be fruitful for me because improper shut-down of machine will hurt my hard disk badly and will result in a hard disk crash if it happens all the time and I will loose all my data. That is why I was thinking of going for iBall Sprinter 450 which does not have Active PFC circuits.

Please confirm.
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a c 694 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 12:12:44 PM

iBall is cheap budget PSU and uses cheap parts, not recommended at all since they do not always deliver.
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a c 121 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 1:05:24 PM

Budget CM PSUs are also overrated near-junk.
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November 10, 2012 2:26:09 PM

If I buy CorsAir CX 430 or VS 450 or Cooler Master Thunder 450 which all have got Active PFC circuits will they shut down my PC when they detect square waveform output from my UPS under battery mode during power outage ? If that is true then it will not be fruitful for me because improper shut-down of machine will hurt my hard disk badly and will result in a hard disk crash if it happens all the time and I will loose all my data. That is why I was thinking of going for iBall Sprinter 450 which does not have Active PFC circuits.

Please confirm.
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a c 121 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 2:42:38 PM

The iBall unit looks to be a PSU-shaped object; I would not trust it to reliably power a computer system. It may not shut off on a UPS waveform, but could damage your PSU for other reasons, like out-of-spec ripple and noise, turn-on spikes, or catastrophic failure for no apparent reason. Since filters are one of the things omitted in cheap PSUs, the line variations you have been describing could easily be the cause of such a failure.
I do not know how the Corsair units would respond to a stepped square wave. You may have to buy one, test it, and return it immediately if it does not work.
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November 10, 2012 4:11:45 PM

Unfortunately there is no return policy. An item once bought can only be replaced if found defective.
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a b ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 4:56:51 PM

Tom_100 said:

@Quaddro: If I buy CorsAir CX 430 or VS 450 or Cooler Master Thunder 450 which all have got Active PFC circuits will they shut down my PC when they detect square waveform output from my UPS under battery mode during power outage ? If that is true then it will not be fruitful for me because improper shut-down of machine will hurt my hard disk badly and will result in a hard disk crash if it happens all the time and I will loose all my data. That is why I was thinking of going for iBall Sprinter 450 which does not have Active PFC circuits.

Please confirm.



i'm not recommended this iball psu..
Unknown oem, also no professional review at all..

take a seasonic based psu..
this psu brand known for their reliability and also can handle stepped stepped sinewave.
SeaSonic S12 II SS-430GB 430W is good choice..

but if you insist to use non apfc or passive pfc psu,
acbell 420/470 or Rosewill RP500-2 500W are good choices..
but beware about low effeciency..
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a c 121 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 5:04:52 PM

Your other choice is to buy a more expensive, true-sine UPS. The Cyberpower APFC series will work; I have one that worked fine with my SG-650, the most sensitive PSU I have.
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a c 1167 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 5:59:57 PM

I use a Corsair HX750W (CMPSU-750HX) made by CWT with an APC Back-UPS XS 1300 that outputs a stepped approximation to a sine wave and I don't have any problems when the UPS switches over to battery operation.

The incompatibility is a result of the APFC circuit design. Some APFC circuits have no problem dealing with a non-sinusoid UPS.

PSU manufacturers do not guarantee UPS compatibility. When you contact them and ask about it they always say that it is up to you to test it with the UPS you are planning to use.

Not all Seasonic PSUs work with a simulated sinewave UPS. X-bit labs review of the Seasonic M12-II Bronze (SS-620GM) where they test Compatibility with a non-sinusoid UPS (APC BackUPS SC 620) proves this:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/seasonic...

The Seasonic S12-II Bronze (SS-520GB) also has the same problem:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/seasonic...
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November 10, 2012 8:32:14 PM

What about cooler master ? Are they known to work with square wave waveform ?
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a c 1167 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 8:39:15 PM

Tom_100 said:
What about cooler master ? Are they known to work with square wave waveform ?

What's the Cooler Master model number?
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a c 121 ) Power supply
November 10, 2012 8:49:13 PM

CM PSUs are near-junk though. They are inefficient, overrated, and often missing claimed protection circuits; reviews at HardwareSecrets.
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a c 1167 ) Power supply
November 11, 2012 3:36:10 PM

Tom_100 said:
Here is the listing - http://www.flipkart.com/cooler-master-thunder-450w-450-...

And one of the review - the 2nd one mentioned that - It does not required any change in UPS.

The Cooler Master Thunder 450W (RS-450-ACAB-M3) is made by CWT (Channel Well Technology).

From the X-bit labs reviews of CWT made APFC power supplies they generally have no problem running on a non-sinusoid UPS as long as the UPS has sufficient reserve capacity..
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a c 144 ) Power supply
November 11, 2012 4:55:21 PM

Some of the newest CM PSU's are OK. Most of the earlier ones were pretty bad.

iBalls are mostly marketed in India. They are ... pretty bad.
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Best solution

a b ) Power supply
November 11, 2012 8:32:30 PM

Hey,

I just wanted to say that I am running a corsair tx750 (not the v2), and it is made by CWT. As ko888 said, psu's made by CWT should have no problem running on a non sinewave ups. I use my corsair tx750 along with a APC smart ups sc1500va, and so far I have not had any issues. From what I read my ups is not pure sinewave, and It has worked well (its a rack-mountable server grade ups). So it should work if the OEM is CWT, I am not sure about the corsair psu's whose OEM is Seasonic, but they're a great brand and from what I have read these should work without any issues as well. I have used different ups on different machines and have not experienced any issues, even with generic psu's. Most power supplies and ups's are designed to work with each other, otherwise what would be the point of getting a ups.

Hope this helped a bit!
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a b ) Power supply
November 12, 2012 3:15:58 PM

Yes it should, I believe that corsair is made by CWT, so it should work.
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November 23, 2012 12:01:48 PM

Guys and Gals thank you for giving your advice and opinions. For now I have settled for
Corsair CX 430 V2 ( http://www.corsair.com/builder-ser [...] upply.html ).

My rig consist of the following specification right now ( hope Corsair CX 430 V2 can handle this smoothly for years ) -

1. Processor : Intel i3-2100 3.10 MHz

2. RAM : 2 X 4 GB DDR 3

3. Motherboard: Intel DH61WW

4. Hard Disk : 1 TB Westernal Digital SATA

5. Video Card : Sapphire HD 7750 1 GB DDR5

6. One DVD Writer.

7. PSU : Corsair CX 430 V2

8. Monitor : PHILIPS BLADE 21.5 inch LED

9. UPS : Intex Protector 725 ( http://www.intextechnologies.com/w [...] CTOR%20725 )

Now I have a headache annoying me all the time while I am running my machine.
When my previous PSU was installed I could feel a breeze of air coming out of the back of the cabinet ( rear end of the PSU ). My previous PSU was not a branded PSU and was made in China. Frustratingly my new buy of Corsair CX 430 V2 also has a "Made in China"
label, though it has got Corsair company Logo and stickers !
In case of Corsair CX 430 V2 I am unable to find any gust of air flow coming out from the rear end of the PSU cabinet through the perforated cover / casing located at the back side of my cabinet. I ask all of you - please confirm if this is natural for Corsair CX 430 V2. I have focused a torch light at the PSU's fan's grill and found the blades were revolving so fast I can not see them. Now the question is if the PSU fan is working then why is not gust of air coming out from the rear end of the PSU ( where the power switch and power cable connection socket is loacted ) ? Is there any chance of damaging my PSU due to heat generation and im-proper air flow ?
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December 10, 2012 12:32:53 PM

Thank you guys for all your help and advice. Corsair CX 430 is performing well.
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February 5, 2013 2:53:32 AM

I faced a similar problem like you, this is due to fault earth connection(i think so). After my graduation i shifted Madurai to Chennai for my job. In my new room i installed my PC. While using games and seeing movie i heard a BUZZ sound like a transformer getting short circuit. Initially i think it was problem in speaker i changed Speaker wire but the problem continues. So i bought a Zebronics Platinum 500W SMPS (not a 80+ certified)+ Numeric 600ex UPS. But the problem is some what solved. Then again i shifted to another room which the building was perfectly earthed. That time until now i didn't faced any Problem, though i recommend you to Purchase 80plus certified SMPS not the SMPS that i am using........

And finally i saw the similar post like this on Flipkart.....:-D
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