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[WoW] Many non-Paladin questions

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:19:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I have a 45 Paladin. Other than a low-level Gnome Mage that I do
intend to work up one day but for now sits in Ironforge near the
auction house, I have no other characters. So there are many
references to other classes' characteristics and attributes I am not
personally familiar with.

* Just how much hassle is it for a HUNTER to constantly feed their
pets? What about those that don't eat meat, like gorillas? Are all
pets' offensive and defensive abilities at a given level more or
less equal, including the Elite ones like the "boss" animals in
Stranglethorn Vale, other than special abilities like Dash (which
other animals then can learn, anyway)? Can a Hunter theoretically
tame any animal, including (say) the Sky Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough? Does it
make sense for a Paladin to cast Blessing of Might on a pet? Should
Priests and Paladins bother resurrecting pets for Hunters? Can total
DPS (including crits and whatever the equivalent to Holy or Shadow
damage, if any) for ranged weapons ever equal melee fighters'? How
difficult is it to control both the player and his pet in battle?

* Should I buff a WARLOCK's familiar with Blessing of Might, Blessing
of Wisdom (mana regen), or neither? Don't Warlocks have a clear
advantage over Hunters in that their companions don't need to be fed
and (except the 50- and 60-level ones) won't run away? How do their
melee abilities compare to Mages and Priests'?

* I've seen some pretty darn powerful wands and staves for a MAGE to
use. That said, I take it that the lack of armor more than outweighs
any advantage in melee battles to this sort of "double wielding"?
Is Blessing of Wisdom or Blessing of Salvation (30% aggro reduction)
preferable? Should a properly-balanced group always assign a melee
fighter to guard any Mage or Priest?

* Speaking of PRIESTS, I've read that a Shadow Priest is just about
the most powerful weapon in the game; what makes him so? How much
does going in that direction hurt heal spells? Conversely, how much
offensive power does a Holy Priest give up in exchange for
super-healing powers? Do Priests find that their great popularity
among raid and instance groups make up for the tough going early on
when soloing?

* I recently grouped with a 39-level DRUID who preferred to fight in
humanoid form with a slow, high-damage mace of the type that I
thought only Warriors and Paladins used. Given that Druids lack Seal
of Command or the Warrior equivalent, could she have inflicted more
DPS as a Bear or a Cat? Should I give a Druid Blessing of Might when
in animal form and Blessing of Wisdom in humanoid form, or stick to
Wisdom in all cases? In what contexts can a Druid outheal a Priest,
and vice versa?

* I know that a SHAMAN is a sort of Horde Paladin equivalent. But do
they have any range attacks? How meaningful are the totems; is it
always worthwhile to go after them first in battle?

* How much stronger is a WARRIOR in melee battles than a Paladin? How
good can he become in ranged combat? A very elementary question, I
know, but when a Warrior is a tank in a group, does this refer more
to his offensive or defensive (aggro-absorbing) abilities?

* I get the impression that a ROGUE has the sheer largest number of
combinations of combat moves. Sap! Sinister Strike! Kidney Strike!
In or out of stealth! Plus cool things like pickpocketing and
poison. Is this why Rogues are the only ones that *don't* whine
about being life being horribly unfair?

--
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~ylee/&gt; PERTH ----> *
Cpu(s): 2.0% us, 1.0% sy, 0.3% ni, 95.2% id, 1.4% wa, 0.1% hi, 0.0% si
Mem: 515800k total, 437396k used, 78404k free, 59512k buffers
Swap: 3052208k total, 240k used, 3051968k free, 162456k cached

More about : wow paladin questions

Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Yeechang Lee wrote:
> I have a 45 Paladin. Other than a low-level Gnome Mage that I do
> intend to work up one day but for now sits in Ironforge near the
> auction house, I have no other characters. So there are many
> references to other classes' characteristics and attributes I am not
> personally familiar with.
>
> \snipe
>
> * I know that a SHAMAN is a sort of Horde Paladin equivalent. But do
> they have any range attacks? How meaningful are the totems; is it
> always worthwhile to go after them first in battle?
>

Yes, Shaman has ranged attack; the trade off is lack of mail armor till
40th lvl. Totems are to shaman like aura to paladins. Most totems are
instant cast though shaman are limit to each of element totem (4 at
most, I could be wrong).

It is only worthwhile to go after totem if you have a fast attack
weapon (less than 2.0). If you use a slow and heavy weapon, it is
better to concentrate on the shaman.


>
> * How much stronger is a WARRIOR in melee battles than a Paladin? How
> good can he become in ranged combat? A very elementary question, I
> know, but when a Warrior is a tank in a group, does this refer more
> to his offensive or defensive (aggro-absorbing) abilities?
>

Offensive ability for the warrior if you compare to paladin who is
better at defensive tanking. bread-n-butter for a fury warrior is

Sunder Armor - reduce opponent's armor
Render - DOT
Heroic Strike - lump sum damage
Overstrike - whenever opponent successfully dodged an attack; this is
an instant strike; cost 5 rage
Execute - warrior's finish move that trade all build up rage into
damages

plus, warrior can handle 1+ mobs with

Shouts - demoralized/intimidated
Cleaves


when fighting spell-caster (paladin included), defensive warrior rock
(I'm sure berserker warrior too, but I'm not there yet) with

Disarmment - remember the time you fight those f****rs back in Deadmine
who disarmed you every other turn; warrior could do it too /woot
Shield Bash - abort spell caster's spell casting, not delay, the thing
that stop paladin for living 3 times as long as other /woot


most issue warriors have are that they start with 0 rage whereas
paladin begin with full mana. But a skilled fury warrior could quickly
generate rages with DW and repeatedly used Overstrike since most
opponents can dodge off-hand weapon. (However, I'm just as sure that a
skilled pvp paladin would know how to handle a skilled fury or
defensive warrior so that at the end, it all event out)
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I for one never had fight a paladin, less alone being in PvP
environemnt. My observation is purely theortical.

geronimo wrote:
> >
> > Offensive ability for the warrior if you compare to paladin who is
> > better at defensive tanking.
>
> I have to diagree. When a group wants a tank, he's expected to a)
take aggro
> b) take a beating
> Offensive ability is only secondary.
> Protection specced warrior are better than paladin to do this at the
same
> time.
>

I'm curious to know how would a protection specced warrior outlast
3-lives paladin? The very fact of casting sheild and healing, paladin
attract aggro (abeit not as much as a warrior's shout do) and able to
withstand beating.

FYI, my highest fury warrior is 37th lvl and my highest defensive
warrior is 23rd lvl so I'm still learning.


>
> I would not include paladin in the "roxxed by warriors" list :
> * a good paladin will stun the warrior or shield himself before
healing :
> no shield bash
> * disarm : not a bad idea, I didn't tried it yed. But the paladin
will
> probably spend this time shielded / healing
>

But don't the paladin's auro of defense has 3 minutes cool down? I
believed paladin's stun has a 30 sec cool down. A warrior's shieldbash
has 10 sec and disarm has 30 sec cool down.


> In fact, I don't think defensive stance is very good in 1v1 PvP : you
can't
> slow, can't overpower, can't execute, the fight last longer (more
mana regen
> for the paladin !).

But you can revenge which may or maynot be on par with overpower, but
mobs seems to hate it more. Oh well. It just showed how much I know. A
berserker warrior may have a better chance of 1v1 PvP, no?
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

As a 60 druid, I'll field this one:

> I recently grouped with a 39-level DRUID who preferred to fight
> in humanoid form with a slow, high-damage mace of the type
> that I thought only Warriors and Paladins used. Given that
> Druids lack Seal of Command or the Warrior equivalent,
> could she have inflicted more DPS as a Bear or a Cat?

Yes, however, that would preclude using healing spells and shifting
forms costs a significant amount of mana. It was very likely that the
druid was just helping to pile on when healing wasn't needed.

> Should I give a Druid Blessing of Might when in animal form

Yes. Kings is also a good choice.

> and Blessing of Wisdom in humanoid form, or stick to
> Wisdom in all cases?

No. If a druid is your main healer, you need to be casting Blessing of
Salvation. All the mana in the world won't do any good if you're
running for dear life. Since Druids do not not have Fade, BoS is esp.
important.

You also need to keep a eye on your healers and, if they are in
trouble, throw a shield on them. Also, if you get Direct Intervention
and use it, you will be leaps and bounds ahead of a lot of other
paladins. What it's for is, if a party wipe is absolutely certain, you
sacrifice yourself to get the priest sheilded and put out of combat.
After the smoke clears, the priest rezzes every one. (or if the healer
is a druid, they rez you and then you rez everyone)

> In what contexts can a Druid outheal a Priest, and vice versa?

Holy Spec Priest > Restore Spec Druid > Shadow Spec Priest

That said, with Innervate (31 pt. Talent), Druids can outlast Priests
in healing long battles, such as Divino runs in ZF. Priests, on the
other hand, can handle cluster f**ks slightly more easily because of
Power Word: Shield and Flash Heal, which is 0.5 seconds faster than the
Druid's fastest heal (that seems insignificant, but it does make a huge
difference at high levels). Druids do have Nature's Swiftness for
insta-cast big heals, but the cooldown prevents it being used more than
once per battle.

Also, a player with the CastParty mod will do a much better job at
healing than someone without it.

Regards,
Noal
May 13, 2005 6:48:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Yeechang Lee" <ylee@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd89abe.5pf.ylee@pobox.com...
>I have a 45 Paladin. Other than a low-level Gnome Mage that I do
> intend to work up one day but for now sits in Ironforge near the
> auction house, I have no other characters. So there are many
> references to other classes' characteristics and attributes I am not
> personally familiar with.
>
> * Just how much hassle is it for a HUNTER to constantly feed their
> pets? What about those that don't eat meat, like gorillas? Are all
> pets' offensive and defensive abilities at a given level more or
> less equal, including the Elite ones like the "boss" animals in
> Stranglethorn Vale, other than special abilities like Dash (which
> other animals then can learn, anyway)? Can a Hunter theoretically
> tame any animal, including (say) the Sky Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
> Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough? Does it
> make sense for a Paladin to cast Blessing of Might on a pet? Should
> Priests and Paladins bother resurrecting pets for Hunters? Can total
> DPS (including crits and whatever the equivalent to Holy or Shadow
> damage, if any) for ranged weapons ever equal melee fighters'? How
> difficult is it to control both the player and his pet in battle?

well, im a 39 hunter so I'll have a go at some of these.

feeding pets isnt really much of a pain. Most animal mobs will drop food.
They dont need the same food as you do (ie, it donest have to restore
ehalth). It can be jsut anything like "tiger meat". They have varying diets,
my tiger for example will only eat fish and meat. I used to have a boar, and
he'd eat meat, fiosh, fungus, fruit and cheese which was handy.

Not all animals are trainable, they do have different stats, though it seems
that at later levels they homegenise. I've only got a tiger as has an attack
speed of 1.3. Though I suspect it's DPS is simialr to other level 39 pets.

Resurrecting isnt an issue. Hunters have a ressurect spell anyway for their
pets. It uses a lot of mana though. I'm not sure how ressing works with
healer types though to be honest :) 

Gun I use at the mo is http://www.thottbot.com/?i=6654 which was kindly
donated to me by my dad's rather rich character :)  and no, its not silent,
but it does look rather odd.... It's very long, and has a sort of ax at the
end.

Pets are pretty easy to control. You just need to be aware of how aggressive
you've set them to be else they'll run off when you're being attacked when
you don't want them to, or sit there doing nothing when you do.

Hope that's of some use.
May 13, 2005 7:04:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Yeechang Lee loved her ferret enough to say...

>
> * I know that a SHAMAN is a sort of Horde Paladin equivalent. But do
> they have any range attacks? How meaningful are the totems; is it
> always worthwhile to go after them first in battle?
>

I can only really give my opinions on this...

The shaman has a lot of range attacks, as he is a heavy magic user.
Lightning, earth shock and frost shock are the main range weapons.
Most shamans now build to be a mainly melee character due to windfury,
but can still pack a huge punch with magic attacks.

The totems can have a huge effect, totems like earthbind will slow you
50% movement speed, which is death for a melee character. I usually
drop a stoneskin totem which reduces melee damage by 14, a mana regen
to gain 6 mana every 2 seconds and a searing totem to deal roughly 37
damage every 2(?) seconds.

Whether you go after the totems first depends on your character, if i
was a melee and an earthbind dropped, i'd go after it, but i wouldn't
bother with the others. Every second you spend taking out the totems
is another second the shaman will be hitting you with a big stick, with
a chance of windfury happening (windfury is an extra 3 melee attacks at
the same time, with an increase in attack power, each of those attacks
can also proc to be a critical). While the shaman is hitting you with
a stick, his mana is regenerating and he will be ready to do a lesser
healing wave which will be 75% uninterruptable. Add in an earth shock
each time he sees you starting to cast a spell to interrupt it, and a
grounding totem to soak up any offensive spells and the shaman is a
worthy opponent.


--
Trooper
usenet@trooperlooper.co.uk.invalid (remove the obvious)
May 13, 2005 8:34:13 PM

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"Yeechang Lee" <ylee@pobox.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
slrnd89abe.5pf.ylee@pobox.com...

Many questions, but to work well in a group, especially as a paladin, you
have to know the other classes, so I will gladly help you, but only with
hunters and warriors (I play both)

> * Just how much hassle is it for a HUNTER to constantly feed their
> pets?

No so much hassle, really. Unless the pet dies again and again, and that can
happen in instances.

> What about those that don't eat meat, like gorillas?

You have to buy or find fruits (there are fruit merchant)

> Are all pets' offensive and defensive abilities at a given level more or
> less equal, including the Elite ones like the "boss" animals in
> Stranglethorn Vale, other than special abilities like Dash (which
> other animals then can learn, anyway)?

Yes and no : all pet *of the same type* will have more or less equal
habilities. however, there's a vast difference between a scorpid (high
armor), a bear (lots of HP), a cat (high dps), a wolf (hybrid), ...

> Can a Hunter theoretically tame any animal, including (say) the Sky
Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
> Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough?

Yes

> Does it make sense for a Paladin to cast Blessing of Might on a pet?

Yes, but blessing of sanctuary is probably a better idea

> Should Priests and Paladins bother resurrecting pets for Hunters?

I would say no, unless you have plenty of mana and the hunter is OOM

> Can total DPS (including crits and whatever the equivalent to Holy or
Shadow
> damage, if any) for ranged weapons ever equal melee fighters'?

You mean without the pet ? I will say yes for most melee class, but it
depends on many things, including talents. Rogue are well ahead in DPS
terms.

> How difficult is it to control both the player and his pet in battle?

Very easy in solo (probably the easiest class to play), more chalenging in
instance or PvP, but not more than playing a warrior correctly.

> * How much stronger is a WARRIOR in melee battles than a Paladin?

The warrior do more damage and tank better, but the paladin will win thanks
to his fabled "3 f**ing hit point bars" ;) 

> How good can he become in ranged combat?

Worthless. A warrior can use ranged weapons, but not to do damage, only to
pull in certain situations.

> A very elementary question, I know, but when a Warrior is a tank in a
group, does this refer more
> to his offensive or defensive (aggro-absorbing) abilities?

defensive
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 8:47:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>
> * How much stronger is a WARRIOR in melee battles than a Paladin? How
> good can he become in ranged combat? A very elementary question, I
> know, but when a Warrior is a tank in a group, does this refer more
> to his offensive or defensive (aggro-absorbing) abilities?
>

I am a lvl 60 warrior, spec'd for tanking, meaning I have concentrated
talent points in defensive areas - namely to increase armor and increase the
ability to draw aggro from creeps. Even so, I have a fairly balanced talent
build, with strategic use of arms/fury/defensive talents.

You ask how much stronger is a warrior in melee battles than a palladin. A
Crit spec'd warrior will EASILY deal more damage faster than any pally that
I've ever seen. But I'm not sure if this is a fair question. In almost all
groups I'm in of late, the palladins are doing double duty - sometimes
dealing damage and sometimes healing. And, if I'm tanking (which I normally
am) I don't usually bother leaving defensive stance.

If you want specific examples of the potential for damage from a warrior,
using my Arcanite Champion sword
(http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=12790) (53.8 DPS, 129-194 Damage)
and using about 50 rage, I can easily get executes to hit for over 2000
damage routinely, depending on the opponent. I've gone over 3000 damage on
a single execute several times. When using Mortal Strike, I'll often get
750-1000 instant extra attacks, while dealing 400-600 damage with my regular
attacks. I just won this in UBRS last night
(http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=12583) the Blackhand Doomsaw
polearm (54 DPS, 151-227 damage), which will be even more effective. For
groups of this type, it is not far fetched for the crit warrior to deal
approximately 10-15% of the TOTAL damage when fighting mobs in a 10-15
person raid group. (there are mods that provide these types of information).

On the other hand, while tanking last night in UBRS, I would often only deal
about 3% of the damage (this was a running average of the last 18 creeps
killed by the group). I would, however, absorb about 10-15% of the damage,
along with 2 other warriors in the same range. This is the essence of
tanking. Take the damage so the healers can heal and the rogues/mages/etc.
can kill.

Isn't this game fun??

Mike
May 13, 2005 9:05:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1115994035.023540.24980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Offensive ability for the warrior if you compare to paladin who is
> better at defensive tanking.

I have to diagree. When a group wants a tank, he's expected to a) take aggro
b) take a beating
Offensive ability is only secondary.
Protection specced warrior are better than paladin to do this at the same
time.

> when fighting spell-caster (paladin included), defensive warrior rock
> (I'm sure berserker warrior too, but I'm not there yet) with
> Disarmment - remember the time you fight those f****rs back in Deadmine
> who disarmed you every other turn; warrior could do it too /woot
> Shield Bash - abort spell caster's spell casting, not delay, the thing
> that stop paladin for living 3 times as long as other /woot
>

I would not include paladin in the "roxxed by warriors" list :
* a good paladin will stun the warrior or shield himself before healing :
no shield bash
* disarm : not a bad idea, I didn't tried it yed. But the paladin will
probably spend this time shielded / healing
In fact, I don't think defensive stance is very good in 1v1 PvP : you can't
slow, can't overpower, can't execute, the fight last longer (more mana regen
for the paladin !).
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 11:50:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Mike in Mystic" <sandiedadog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CS4he.1681$1A6.0@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> >
>> * How much stronger is a WARRIOR in melee battles than a Paladin? How
>> good can he become in ranged combat? A very elementary question, I
>> know, but when a Warrior is a tank in a group, does this refer more
>> to his offensive or defensive (aggro-absorbing) abilities?
>>
>
> I am a lvl 60 warrior, spec'd for tanking, meaning I have concentrated
> talent points in defensive areas - namely to increase armor and increase
> the
> ability to draw aggro from creeps. Even so, I have a fairly balanced
> talent
> build, with strategic use of arms/fury/defensive talents.
>
> You ask how much stronger is a warrior in melee battles than a palladin.
> A
> Crit spec'd warrior will EASILY deal more damage faster than any pally
> that
> I've ever seen. But I'm not sure if this is a fair question. In almost
> all

So will a level three warlock, what's your point? ^o^
May 14, 2005 12:20:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
On 2005-05-13, Yeechang Lee <ylee@pobox.com> wrote:

> * I get the impression that a ROGUE has the sheer largest number of
> combinations of combat moves. Sap! Sinister Strike! Kidney Strike!
> In or out of stealth! Plus cool things like pickpocketing and
> poison. Is this why Rogues are the only ones that *don't* whine
> about being life being horribly unfair?

It's fun when you're soloing an elite boss and just as the boss
wants to cast a summon for bodyguards you kick them to interrupt
the cast, sinister strike twice, drink thistle tea, and then
stunlock them while you finish them off :-)

Rogue is a lot of fun. Very challenging though. It's a very
twitchy class to play since you need to figure out what finishing
move to use at what time. The combinations are endless.

I can do mobs four to six levels higher than me and if they're
just four levels higher than me I can handle at least one add. I
do tend to buy the best +agi equipment I can find though.

Give Rogue a try and keep at it until at least level 30. It's
well worth it.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 4:54:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 13 May 2005 13:19:42 GMT, Yeechang Lee <ylee@pobox.com> scribed into the
ether:

>* Just how much hassle is it for a HUNTER to constantly feed their
> pets?

It's a bit of a pain in the ass. You need to feed them fairly frequently if
all they do is stand around. Fighting with them means feeding them a lot
more. If you want to keep them happy and get the 25% damage boost, then you
are stuffing food down that sumbitch's throat on a near-constant basis.

> What about those that don't eat meat, like gorillas?

They don't eat any more or less than anything else. I generally just buy
meat at the butcher shop (2 stacks of 20 will generally last a while). A
gorilla user would just go to a fungus shop instead.

> Are all
> pets' offensive and defensive abilities at a given level more or
> less equal, including the Elite ones like the "boss" animals in
> Stranglethorn Vale, other than special abilities like Dash (which
> other animals then can learn, anyway)?

Some animals are far better for certain things than others. Crabs and
Turtles have extremely good armor, but bad DPS. Bears have medium DPS, very
high HP, but terrible armor. Cats and Raptors have very high DPS, but can't
take a hit worth a damn.

> Can a Hunter theoretically
> tame any animal, including (say) the Sky Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
> Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough?

No. There is an extensive list of beasts that are untameable.

> Does it make sense for a Paladin to cast Blessing of Might on a pet?

If you are duoing with a Hunter, yes. Blessing of Might doesn't work on
ranged attacks. Pet DPS isn't exactly stellar, but better than nothing.

> Should Priests and Paladins bother resurrecting pets for Hunters?

Not unless they have a surfeit of mana...Hunters can ressurect their own
pets.

> Can total DPS (including crits and whatever the equivalent to Holy or Shadow
> damage, if any) for ranged weapons ever equal melee fighters'?

Hunters can easily outdamage Warriors or meleeing Druids, or Paladins...but
rogues? Not a chance, except in very specific circumstances (which is
basically just Onyxia). Rogues do waaaaaaaaaaaay more damage than Hunters.

> How difficult is it to control both the player and his pet in battle?

Not very.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 4:56:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Fri, 13 May 2005 16:34:13 +0200, "geronimo" <toto@lulu.com> scribed into
the ether:

>
>"Yeechang Lee" <ylee@pobox.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>slrnd89abe.5pf.ylee@pobox.com...

>> Can a Hunter theoretically tame any animal, including (say) the Sky
>Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
>> Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough?
>
>Yes

I don't know about the Sky Shadows (I can't stand bird pets), but
Devilsaurs are not tameable. Lots and lots of beasts in the world are
untameable.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 6:09:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <slrnd89abe.5pf.ylee@pobox.com>,
Yeechang Lee <ylee@pobox.com> wrote:
> * Just how much hassle is it for a HUNTER to constantly feed their
> pets? What about those that don't eat meat, like gorillas?

Picky eaters are a pain. Cats are easy up until the highest levels--a
small amount of work on keeping fishing skill up, and you can fish your
pet food. This breaks down at level 60, since the highest level fish
are a pain to catch.

Bears are the easiest, since they eat anything.


> Are all
> pets' offensive and defensive abilities at a given level more or
> less equal, including the Elite ones like the "boss" animals in
> Stranglethorn Vale, other than special abilities like Dash (which
> other animals then can learn, anyway)?

Each category of pet (cat, wolf, bear, etc.) has different statistics.
Within a category, all pets are the same--with the exception of attack
speed and combat run speed.

Attack speed variance is, incidentally, a bug. It's not likely to get
fixed, however; I think the devs are aware of exactly how loud the
screams would be if they touched it. At some point in the future, it
will be possible for hunters to adjust the attack speed of a pet by
spending training points.

Combat run speed is less important than it used to be, now that
Dash/Dive exist.


> Can a Hunter theoretically
> tame any animal, including (say) the Sky Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
> Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough?

No. Not all beasts are tamable.


> Does it
> make sense for a Paladin to cast Blessing of Might on a pet?

That's the attack power buff, right? Yes, it makes sense to cast it.

Note that it does *not* make sense to cast Blessing of Might on a
hunter--it doesn't affect ranged attack power. Use Salvation or Wisdom.


> Should
> Priests and Paladins bother resurrecting pets for Hunters?

If you want to. The hunter can do it himself, although it costs a lot
of mana--he'll need to drink afterwards.


> Can total
> DPS (including crits and whatever the equivalent to Holy or Shadow
> damage, if any) for ranged weapons ever equal melee fighters'? How
> difficult is it to control both the player and his pet in battle?

(Good) hunters outdamage everyone except for rogues. If you include the
damage from the pet, they come pretty close to rogues. Hunters leave
warriors and paladins (the other major melee classes) in the dust,
damage-wise.

Pet control requires care and attention. The difference between a good
hunter and a bad one is quite dramatic.


> * I've seen some pretty darn powerful wands and staves for a MAGE to
> use. That said, I take it that the lack of armor more than outweighs
> any advantage in melee battles to this sort of "double wielding"?
> Is Blessing of Wisdom or Blessing of Salvation (30% aggro reduction)
> preferable? Should a properly-balanced group always assign a melee
> fighter to guard any Mage or Priest?

Wisdom vs. Salvation is situational. If someone isn't drawing aggro,
they don't need Salvation.

If a paladin is trying to act as main tank, they should cast Blessing of
Salvation on everyone. If a warrior is main tank, there isn't any need
for it--assuming the warrior knows his job.


> * Speaking of PRIESTS, I've read that a Shadow Priest is just about
> the most powerful weapon in the game; what makes him so? How much
> does going in that direction hurt heal spells? Conversely, how much
> offensive power does a Holy Priest give up in exchange for
> super-healing powers? Do Priests find that their great popularity
> among raid and instance groups make up for the tough going early on
> when soloing?

Priests aren't that bad soloing--especially shadow priests. A good
priest of any spec can write his own ticket into instances.


> * How much stronger is a WARRIOR in melee battles than a Paladin? How
> good can he become in ranged combat? A very elementary question, I
> know, but when a Warrior is a tank in a group, does this refer more
> to his offensive or defensive (aggro-absorbing) abilities?

Warriors have no ranged skill to speak of.

Warriors are very good at absorbing damage, but paladins are better at
it. What makes a warrior a better tank than any other class by far is
their ability to gain and hold aggro. It doesn't matter how good you
are at taking damage if you can't keep the mobs from pounding the priest
into the ground.


> * I get the impression that a ROGUE has the sheer largest number of
> combinations of combat moves. Sap! Sinister Strike! Kidney Strike!
> In or out of stealth! Plus cool things like pickpocketing and
> poison. Is this why Rogues are the only ones that *don't* whine
> about being life being horribly unfair?

No, rogues also whine. :>

- Damien
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 6:20:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 13 May 2005 09:44:33 -0700, "collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com>
wrote:

>geronimo wrote:

>> I have to diagree. When a group wants a tank, he's expected to a)
>take aggro
>> b) take a beating
>> Offensive ability is only secondary.
>> Protection specced warrior are better than paladin to do this at the
>same
>> time.

>I'm curious to know how would a protection specced warrior outlast
>3-lives paladin? The very fact of casting sheild and healing, paladin
>attract aggro (abeit not as much as a warrior's shout do) and able to
>withstand beating.

The paladin shields are irrelevant in terms of tanking in a group -
sure the paladin survives longer, but he also all but guarantees that
the group wipes...

When the paladin pops a shield he sheds all aggro = the mobs he were
supposed to keep on him goes off to eat the rest of the party.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 3:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <slrnd89abe.5pf.ylee@pobox.com>, ylee@pobox.com says...

As a Level 26 hunter:

> * Just how much hassle is it for a HUNTER to constantly feed their
> pets?

Not much. Once they are fully trained they don't eat too much.

> What about those that don't eat meat, like gorillas?

You can go to vendors. Pet food is cheap. Or get something like a
bear, which will eat anything.

> Are all
> pets' offensive and defensive abilities at a given level more or
> less equal, including the Elite ones like the "boss" animals in
> Stranglethorn Vale, other than special abilities like Dash (which
> other animals then can learn, anyway)?

They differ in speed, damage and armour, but I'm not sure the
difference is huge in play terms. Elite doesn't matter. Different
species retain their original coloration but their abilities are
generic, i.e. a Level 20 Cat is the same whether he is black or white
and whatever level he was tamed at.

Pets level fast, so a new pet will soon be close to your level.

> Can a Hunter theoretically
> tame any animal, including (say) the Sky Shadows in Deadwind Pass or
> Devilsaur in Un'Garo Crater, if his level is high enough?

YOu can tame around 20-30 types. At level 24 there's a spell that will
tell you if a type is tameable.

> Does it
> make sense for a Paladin to cast Blessing of Might on a pet?

Probably - pets are subject to most effects.

> Should
> Priests and Paladins bother resurrecting pets for Hunters?

Hunters have a Resurrect Pet spell. It gets 15% health but no res
sickness, and it will want a piece of food (just one if it was fully
trained and fed before).

> Can total
> DPS (including crits and whatever the equivalent to Holy or Shadow
> damage, if any) for ranged weapons ever equal melee fighters'?

Probably not, but then again you're not taking damage! Hunters are
very strong if they can attack single opponents from range. Pull more
than one and their flimsiness in melee becomes an issue. Tracking
abilities help make up for it.

> How
> difficult is it to control both the player and his pet in battle?

Enough to be interesting without being overwhelming. In default mode,
the pet will stay by you until a monster damages you, then attack him.
You can also send him to attack the targeted monster, or to break off
and come back to you. If you don't want to be fancy, switch his best
attack on and just use these controls. If you do, you can play more
tricks with him.

Overall, hunters are fun. Strong in the open, somewhat unhappy in
dungeons.

- Gerry Quinn
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 4:25:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Simon Nejmann" <snejmann@worldonline.dk> wrote in message
news:144c81tgu6od1q3l39spcc9f1c5paotaud@4ax.com...
> Stun, no - the only priest stun is Blackout, who at 5 points give
> shadow spells 10% chance to proc a 3 second stun. This is unreliable
> at best.

Worst part is that it's buggy. If you are lucky enough to get a stun on an
enemy that is at range, the moment they recover from the stun, they instantly
warp to melee range. You should have a full extra mind flay from each proc,
but it never happens.

> Priests don't have any kiting tools either - no speed increases, and
> the only enemy slowdown spell (Mind Flay) is channeled and requires
> you to not move from the spot.
>

Cast fear.

Or even better, cast fear, then mind flay so they don't get too far. Then
nuke if fear doesn't break before they get out of mind flay range. Then,
either way, mind flay them again as they're running back to you.


--
Davian / Dearic (Bloodhoof)

"We need a new Mario game, where you rescue the princess in the first ten
minutes, and for the rest of the game you try and push down that sick feeling
in your stomach that she's "damaged goods"... When Peach asks you, in the
quiet of her mushroom castle bedroom "do you still love me?" you pretend to be
asleep. You press the A button rhythmically, to control your breath, keep it
even." - Joey Comeau on increased realism in gaming.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 5:28:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Nel tempo 13 May 2005 13:19:42 GMT, il mio fedele schiavo Wu desto'
nel mio animo interesse sopra il conversare di Yeechang Lee
<ylee@pobox.com>:

>* Should I buff a WARLOCK's familiar with Blessing of Might, Blessing
> of Wisdom (mana regen), or neither?

It depends on the minion.
The Imp could benefit dramatically from mana regen, especially if its
master has used talents to speed its casting (which renders him very
effective IMHO).

All the others attack in melee, so Blessing of Might would mean more
damage.

As for 'neither' option: remember, if you boost an ally of yours, you
get benefits from their increased efficiency. If you don't, and they
fail you... well, you have only to thank yourself.

> Don't Warlocks have a clear
> advantage over Hunters in that their companions don't need to be fed
> and (except the 50- and 60-level ones) won't run away?

Hunters have other boons we don't have, pal.

> How do their
> melee abilities compare to Mages and Priests'?

IMHO: quite poorly. Period. Priests have nicer buffs on themselves,
that make them much more effective in melee. I've never played a Mage
though.

>* I've seen some pretty darn powerful wands and staves for a MAGE to
> use.

Why not a warlock, or a priest? :) 

> That said, I take it that the lack of armor more than outweighs
> any advantage in melee battles to this sort of "double wielding"?

Absolutely. If attacked in melee, casting can be interrupted, and no
wand is ever as effective as actual casting (save for the priest,
whose casting is not focused on damage).

> Is Blessing of Wisdom or Blessing of Salvation (30% aggro reduction)
> preferable? Should a properly-balanced group always assign a melee
> fighter to guard any Mage or Priest?

Priest, definitely. You want to get cured? Keep 'em off your priest.
Otherwise, don't have one in your party. Because having one and not
protecting him is the same as not having one, plus he will get very
annoyed with you.
Mage... well, you want him to nuke, or to be useless? That applies to
warlocks as well.

Parvati V
--
"Cosa e' celvello? Pai non ha cosa del genele" - Pai, 3x3 occhi
UnaMoleDiDadi (TreEmme Torino)
http://parvatiquinta.altervista.org
IHGGera #1069, IAFa #182 ^^^
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 6:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Yeechang Lee" <ylee@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd89abe.5pf.ylee@pobox.com...
>I have a 45 Paladin. Other than a low-level Gnome Mage that I do
> intend to work up one day but for now sits in Ironforge near the
> auction house, I have no other characters. So there are many
> references to other classes' characteristics and attributes I am not
> personally familiar with.
<snip>
> * Speaking of PRIESTS, I've read that a Shadow Priest is just about
> the most powerful weapon in the game; what makes him so?

Common misconception. They are quite effective in one on one PvP. To a
single target they can deal good damage, manaburn, shield, fear, dispel
buffs/dots. In shadowform they get a shadow damage boost and physical damage
reduction. In reality a Shadow Priest is mana hungry and has a big cooldown,
and would have to sit and drink after pumping out max DPS.

My priest is level 52...(from memory/gameguide so very rough numbers)
Mindblast hits for 600+ shadow damage (75dps, 1.5s cast, 5.5s cooldown)
PW:p ain ticks at about 150 every two seconds. (75dps,instant cast, 30s
duration)
Mindflay ticks at about 110 every two seconds. (55dps, instant cast, 3s
duration)

>How much
> does going in that direction hurt heal spells? Conversely, how much
> offensive power does a Holy Priest give up in exchange for
> super-healing powers? Do Priests find that their great popularity
> among raid and instance groups make up for the tough going early on
> when soloing?

With no Holy talents at all I still heal quite well in instances around my
level. Mana efficiency is the main problem, talents boost your heals and
shorten cast time making them more mana efficient at the same time. In high
end instances you would need that efficiency and healing boost to keep
people alive.

cheers,
Stu.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 15, 2005 9:59:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4286c359$0$11694$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> Simon Nejmann wrote:

>> Priests don't have any kiting tools either - no speed increases, and
>> the only enemy slowdown spell (Mind Flay) is channeled and requires
>> you to not move from the spot.
>
> It's still kiting by my standard. It doubles the range of your spell
> against a melee mob, making it effectively a 48yards range spell. It's
> called kiting without moving.

Umm... that kind of goes completely against the definition that I would
guess almost all of us have. They call it kiting to evoke the image of some
kid running along, with a kite on a string, just the way a wizard or druid
would run around tossing nukes at the mob while staying out of range. If
it's not moving, it's not kiting. It may be similar, but it's not the same
thing.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 16, 2005 5:36:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

sanjian a écrit :
> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4286c359$0$11694$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> > Simon Nejmann wrote:
>
> >> Priests don't have any kiting tools either - no speed increases,
and
> >> the only enemy slowdown spell (Mind Flay) is channeled and
requires
> >> you to not move from the spot.
> >
> > It's still kiting by my standard. It doubles the range of your
spell
> > against a melee mob, making it effectively a 48yards range spell.
It's
> > called kiting without moving.
>
> Umm... that kind of goes completely against the definition that I
would
> guess almost all of us have. They call it kiting to evoke the image
of some
> kid running along, with a kite on a string, just the way a wizard or
druid
> would run around tossing nukes at the mob while staying out of range.
If
> it's not moving, it's not kiting. It may be similar, but it's not
the same
> thing.

Well we share that view. But I've learned that proper theoretical
kiting does not exist in this game. Except maybe on those really slow
slugs in maraudon.

I may be bad at that, but "they" say a shaman can kite with frost
shock. They can't (the mob still goes too fast, and a mob that a shaman
would like to kite is a mob that will resist the frost shock often).
"they" say a druid can kite with roots. They can't (roots get resisted,
and sometimes ends after a couple of seconds, on top of that there's a
casting time). "they" say a mage can kite with frost nova, they can't
do it more than once (same as druids, only there is a long cooldown) ->
mobs that you can kite-kill are not the mobs that you would really want
kited...

IMHO kiting is consistently undo-able in PVE, has diminishing returns
in PVP, and the game is designed so. Only characters with some kind of
pets can prevent mobs from going melee and deal enough damage.

Thus my definition of "kiting", as in "dealing consistent damage before
the mob reaches melee range". And mind flay by itself seems really good
for this, giving all your damage spells an effective range of at least
40. You can pain a mob and slow it, for twice the pain damage before
the mob reaches you. That's my definition of kiting, because it deals
at least as much damage as something like a shaman's fabled "frost
shock kite" before the mob reaches melee.

you can compliment your flay-kite with fear, but again, it just doubles
your kiting time. It has to end some time.
May 16, 2005 2:11:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>
> I'm curious to know how would a protection specced warrior outlast
> 3-lives paladin? The very fact of casting sheild and healing, paladin
> attract aggro (abeit not as much as a warrior's shout do) and able to
> withstand beating.
>
> FYI, my highest fury warrior is 37th lvl and my highest defensive
> warrior is 23rd lvl so I'm still learning.
>

Sure, paladin can take quite a beating, even better than protection-specced
warriors. But I've heard (I play hore, so don't know for sure) they are not
so good when it comes to take and keep aggro, especially against multiple
mobs.

> >
> > I would not include paladin in the "roxxed by warriors" list :
> > * a good paladin will stun the warrior or shield himself before
> healing :
> > no shield bash
> > * disarm : not a bad idea, I didn't tried it yed. But the paladin
> will
> > probably spend this time shielded / healing
> >
>
> But don't the paladin's auro of defense has 3 minutes cool down? I
> believed paladin's stun has a 30 sec cool down. A warrior's shieldbash
> has 10 sec and disarm has 30 sec cool down.
>
>
> > In fact, I don't think defensive stance is very good in 1v1 PvP : you
> can't
> > slow, can't overpower, can't execute, the fight last longer (more
> mana regen
> > for the paladin !).
>
> But you can revenge which may or maynot be on par with overpower, but
> mobs seems to hate it more. Oh well. It just showed how much I know. A
> berserker warrior may have a better chance of 1v1 PvP, no?
>

I will try defensive tactics and tell you, there are lots of nasty paladin
on my server who believe noone can kill them, so testing is not a problem
:) .

Berserker warriors are good in PvP, but they need to have a lot of agi (for
the crits), so less HP. On the other hand, my protection specced warrior is
good against casters, especially druids : It's very funy when a druid chain
root/dot/nuke me and then realise he as burn all his mana and I still have
half my HP, and lots of rage :) . Defensive warriors are also good at
interrupting casting : concussion blow will prevent casting when shield bash
is not ready. (usefull in PvE too).
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 8:56:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

collection2002 ytrede sig i
<1115994035.023540.24980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> med dette:

>
>Yeechang Lee wrote:
>> I have a 45 Paladin. Other than a low-level Gnome Mage that I do
>> intend to work up one day but for now sits in Ironforge near the
>> auction house, I have no other characters. So there are many
>> references to other classes' characteristics and attributes I am not
>> personally familiar with.
>>
>> \snipe
>>
>> * I know that a SHAMAN is a sort of Horde Paladin equivalent. But do
>> they have any range attacks? How meaningful are the totems; is it
>> always worthwhile to go after them first in battle?
>>
>
>Yes, Shaman has ranged attack; the trade off is lack of mail armor till
>40th lvl. Totems are to shaman like aura to paladins. Most totems are
>instant cast though shaman are limit to each of element totem (4 at
>most, I could be wrong).
>
>It is only worthwhile to go after totem if you have a fast attack
>weapon (less than 2.0). If you use a slow and heavy weapon, it is
>better to concentrate on the shaman.

It's funny you suggests that, because ignoring my totems was excatly
what made 2 rogues and a pally loose 3 times to a rogue and I the other
night.

I was only casting Earthbind and Windfury, so it would have been easy
for them to take out the Earthbind.

Try do some calc on the dps in a battle, and as soon as there is more
than one who's slowed down with 50%, the dps is really crippled.

For all other totems than Earthbind you can easily ignore them, because
the protection they can give is very low, compared to the plate of a
pally, and the +strength is nothing against the attack of a pally
either.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 10:47:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer a écrit :

> I can't see your point here.

It's very simple. People complain that the holy tree is ridiculously
uneffective, and needs to be "fixed".

I say, no, don't fix it, it's pretty good "as is", I've played holy
since the start, respecced from healer to smiter and see a pretty huge
difference between the two already: "master healer" is gone in my
build, and I grievously miss it in instances. This talent has a
meaning, and a meaning that is far above all the talents you can see in
the discipline tree. It is the talent that makes a holy priest a master
healer. As far as I'm concerned, the holy priest is a masterpiece of
balance in this game. If he's meant to be overpowered, then why do
people complain, and if he's meant to be underpowered, then keep it
underpowered, I love being a good underdog :) 
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 1:52:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

geronimo wrote:
>
> Sure, paladin can take quite a beating, even better than protection-specced
> warriors. But I've heard (I play hore, so don't know for sure) they are not
> so good when it comes to take and keep aggro, especially against multiple
> mobs.

That's about right. Like hunters, their DPS isn't stellar, but they're
relatively self-sufficient. Unlike hunters, they have a very useful
secondary role as a backup rezbot.

--
Remove the mess to reply.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 2:14:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer a écrit :
> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Christian Stauffer a écrit :
> >
> >> I can't see your point here.
> >
> > It's very simple. People complain that the holy tree is
ridiculously
> > uneffective, and needs to be "fixed".
>
> I see that, and from what I've read of your explanations, I fully
> agree. I also think that priests are better healers than druids
> (would be strange if that wasn't the case). But I don't understand
> why you think a priest can outlast a druid by using the appropriate
> spells, because druids can do that too :o )
>
> Druids have, at least until level 42, three healing spells which
> all differ in their effect:
>
> HEALING TOUCH
> Casting time: Long
> Healing type: Instant
> Healing effect: Big
>
> Casted when the target needs lot of health and I have enough
> time for casting it. Usually used for tanks and cloth wearers.
>
> REGROWTH
> Casting time: Medium
> Healing type: 50% instant, 50% healing over time
> Healing effect: Big
> Casted when the target needs some health now, and is still
> being attacked. Great "fire & forget" spell. Usually casted
> on tanks, because it heals their current damage and gives me
> a decent time slot to take care of the other party members.
>
> REJUVENATION
> Casting time: None (instant)
> Healing type: Healing over time
> Healing effect: Small
> Casted when I have no time at all, or after battle for fast
> advancement usually used for members who don't get currently
> attacked, but have taken some damage during the fight.
>
> Tranquility (huge cooldown, so it doesn't count)
> Casting time: None (instant)
> Healing type: Healing over time, Channeled (80% uninterruptable
> with talents)
> Healing effect: Small-medium, for all nearby party members
> Casted when two or more party members are close to death.
>
> Using two or three levels of each of those 3 types provides me 6-9
> different spells to choose from, and I never had the impression I
> don't have the correct spell for a situation.
>
> Chris

As I said in a previous answer, I made a mistake. I for having read
similar debates on the official forums, I simply thought Healing Touch
stopped growing in power with levels to be completely replaced with
Regrowth, much like lesser heal stops at rank 4 to be replaced by heal
1, etc... and of course was wrong *blushes*.

As far as versatility goes, Druids have their fair share, of course!
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 7:33:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Simon Nejmann wrote:
>
>> But, as always, things are a bit more complicated.
>> A) Restoration druids are very close to Holy priests (some argue
>> equal), and the Shadow priest is very close behind after that.
>> There are also other healers in the game (shaman, paladin,
>> non-restoration druids), but generally they are left solidly behind.
>
> If you consider healing only one person, and drinking every fight, then
> they are equal. If you consider drinking once or twice *per instance*
> and running it without a tank, then holy priest can do it, druids can't.

I never had the opportunity to play the healer in a group without a tank
(because if there's no tank, I am), but I usually don't need to drink
when healing. Once or twice per instance sounds adequate, with the highest
instance I've seen so far beeing SM/cathedral.

>> B) Priests can't regen mana... All they have is spirit and a talent
>> that lets them regen 15% of normal while under the 5 second rule.
>> Druids, on the other hand, has spirit, a 15% regen talent like the
>> priests _and_ Innervate...
>
> But a holy priest can either be a button masher or a healer. With my
> pitifully low mana pull and my bad spirit regen, I can outlast a few
> druids and their innervates, due to proper heal selection. Nothing like
> seeing a priest cast a 500 mana flash heal when a 250 mana heal 2 is enough.

I can't see your point here. Using different healing spells and levels
for mana/time efficiency is something every healer can do. I have the 3
highest levels of healing touch (which differ in mana cost and casting
time) and the two highest levels of regrowth and rejuvenation on my
hotbar.

So far, I only had to use innervate in-battle when playing tank and the
healer(s) (shamen) ran oom. Or with kamikaze warriors in the team, who
just don't know when to step back :) 

> As said before, priests have a very large selection of spells. Lowlevel
> bigger heals become highlevel's smaller heals. Druids don't have this,
> due to the heal over time component.

I have something between 5 and 7 levels of healing touch to pick from,
what should I want more? :-)

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (43) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 8:21:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Christian Stauffer a écrit :
>
>> I can't see your point here.
>
> It's very simple. People complain that the holy tree is ridiculously
> uneffective, and needs to be "fixed".

I see that, and from what I've read of your explanations, I fully
agree. I also think that priests are better healers than druids
(would be strange if that wasn't the case). But I don't understand
why you think a priest can outlast a druid by using the appropriate
spells, because druids can do that too :o )

Druids have, at least until level 42, three healing spells which
all differ in their effect:

HEALING TOUCH
Casting time: Long
Healing type: Instant
Healing effect: Big

Casted when the target needs lot of health and I have enough
time for casting it. Usually used for tanks and cloth wearers.

REGROWTH
Casting time: Medium
Healing type: 50% instant, 50% healing over time
Healing effect: Big
Casted when the target needs some health now, and is still
being attacked. Great "fire & forget" spell. Usually casted
on tanks, because it heals their current damage and gives me
a decent time slot to take care of the other party members.

REJUVENATION
Casting time: None (instant)
Healing type: Healing over time
Healing effect: Small
Casted when I have no time at all, or after battle for fast
advancement usually used for members who don't get currently
attacked, but have taken some damage during the fight.

Tranquility (huge cooldown, so it doesn't count)
Casting time: None (instant)
Healing type: Healing over time, Channeled (80% uninterruptable
with talents)
Healing effect: Small-medium, for all nearby party members
Casted when two or more party members are close to death.

Using two or three levels of each of those 3 types provides me 6-9
different spells to choose from, and I never had the impression I
don't have the correct spell for a situation.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (43) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 18, 2005 12:03:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:

> As I said in a previous answer, I made a mistake. I for having read
> similar debates on the official forums, I simply thought Healing Touch
> stopped growing in power with levels to be completely replaced with
> Regrowth, much like lesser heal stops at rank 4 to be replaced by heal
> 1, etc... and of course was wrong *blushes*.

Ah, ok. You confused me a bit :o )

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (43) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 25, 2005 2:38:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <144c81tgu6od1q3l39spcc9f1c5paotaud@4ax.com>,
snejmann@worldonline.dk says...
> Holy Nova is extra bad. At highest rank it heals all party members for
> 400 hitpoints and deals 250 damage to all enemies *within 10 yards*.
> A) Prayer of Healing has better healing efficiency and a *far* better
> range (30-40 yards).
> B) Holy Nova can be directly dangerous to your party since it can wake
> polymorfed and otherwise sleeping mobs up.
> C) Only 400 hitpoints?

I just want to note that my groups like to start pulls with saps,
polymorphs or shackles so they don't get caught up in AoE. Holy Nova is
nice to have - not _important_ - but it will get better with the next
patch since the cooldown is being reduced to 30 seconds. The developers
have also explained that holy nova is more efficient compared to prayer
of healing since you only have to do 400 points of healing to two people
instead of three to recoup mana costs when compared to flash heal
(assuming both cases are compared to flash heal's mana efficiency).

I've also had greater heal save the party numerous times (...or wipe the
tank if the time is miscalculated, I admit - and I don't have master
healer). When the priest is out of mana and a lot of healing is required
on the tank, greater heal is the way to go.
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