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X79 or Z77 Which fits the bill?

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July 4, 2012 12:25:57 AM

Approximate Purchase Date: before September, 2012

Budget Range: 500-600 USD for CPU/MOBO

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Multiple Virtual Machines (VMware), coding/compiling, BOINC (AMD OpenCL + NVIDA Cuda), gaming, encoding, surfing the internet

Parts Not Required:
Everything but CPU, Mobo, and RAM (Have SeaSonic X-SERIES X-1050)

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Microcenter (Yonkers, NY), newegg.com

Country: USA, New York

Parts Preferences: ASUS

Overclocking: Yes

SLI or Crossfire: Yes

Monitor Resolution: 5760x1080

Additional Comments:

Currently Have:

Staying:
DISPLAY: Three ASUS VW246H 24" LCDs
DISK: Crucial M4 128GB, 1TB WD FAEX
PSU: SeaSonic X-SERIES X-1050
CASE: Original HAF 932, painted and pinstriped and detailed to match current ASUS Sabertooth boards
GPU(s): Sapphire HD 7970 (no CFX yet), GTX 560 TI 448 (compute)
COOLING: XSPC water loop, pumps, reservoir, radiator

Going:
MOBO: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX
CPU: 1100T X6 Phenom II
RAM: 4x4 GB GSkill 1600 MHz
COOLING: AM3 waterblock
-----------------------------------------------

I have been agonizing over this and jumping back and forth between X79 and Z77... hopefully someone here can define a
clear winner.

So, I'm switching sides to Intel, a choice made after I recently acquired a HD 7970 from a friend jumping to a GTX 680 (couldn't pass up for $300). My old Phenom just seems inadequate now.

I'm looking for PCI-e 3.0, which means Ivy Bridge Z77 or X79 with Sandy Bridge-E CPUs. The back story is out there, I just need some prodding in one direction or another. Ivy Bridge runs hot (TIM paste under IHS, no solder), SBe has lower IPC than IB and SB (benchmarks everywhere), X79 memory controller hurts latency. Basically if IB ran as cool as SB, it would be a no brainer to me, but I am an obsessive overclocker. I would prefer 4.5 GHz, but will live with as low as 4.2 GHz. IB runs hot OCed.

Is the whole heat issue with IB overblown or am I right to consider looking into SBe? I run a few (5) virtual machines off my current system and could use more RAM, so an LGA 2011 i7 3820 might be the best fit. But discounting the temps, a i7 3770K looks better to me.

Price is nearly the same at Microcenter for CPU/MOBO:

$552.72, for Sabertooth X79/i7 3820
$547.30, for Sabertooth Z77/i7 3770K

Thanks for the help!

More about : x79 z77 fits bill

July 4, 2012 1:02:14 AM

I feel your uncertianty and it's a hard choice to make , one which I will also be making soon. Fortunatly no video card is able to saturate the Pci-e 2.1 slot yet so it's not entirely crucial to get Pci-e 3.0 yet. Maybe the next generation of video cards will accomplish that and then it will become necessary to get a pci-e 3.0 setup. I would like to know if there is a Ivy Bridge-E 2011 socket coming. That could sway you to the 2011 socket.
I'm thinking that with the water cooling setup you have that you can deal with the extra heat from the Ivy Bridge being overclocked so I will say go with that.
July 4, 2012 1:27:04 AM

Just looking at what you want it to do tells me you should get X79. Running virtual machines requires a ton of RAM and X79 will give you that. 2011 i7 CPU's also have 6 physical cores (+Hyperthreading) in them, so more processing power on the chip than a 4 core LGA1155 CPU.

The heat from Ivy Bridge doesnt really matter as while you cant get as high clocks, each clock is worth more. Clock for Clock, an Ivy will beat the equivalent Sandy. And it seems like you have a water cooling loop anyway, so heat wont become an issue.

Anyway, get the X79. VM's require lots of RAM and X79 will let you get up to 64GB's of it, while Z77 can only get to 32GB. And the two extra cores in 2011 CPU's will help in regards to pure processing power.
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July 4, 2012 1:36:48 AM

Removing the VM usage, would Ivy Bridge be the way to go? I'm planning on setting my X6 up as a dedicated VM server anyway, so my load on the Intel will be less.

And from what I'm reading, even with a cooling loop like mine, the IBs get hot only because Intel used TIM instead of solder to thermally bond the die to the heat spreader. I just feel used (by Intel) buying an Ivy Bridge. Tis' like tainted goods fresh out of the box reading about that cop-out.

I see you have a 3570 overclocked under a CM 212 (which is as good as air cooling gets, honestly). What kind of temperatures are you looking at?

Oh, and the i7 3820 is analogous to an i7 2600k. i.e. it is a quad core part with HT. I don't see the ROI buying a six core Intel at the moment.

Thanks again!
July 4, 2012 1:41:37 AM

i would say z77 w/3570k the 3770k is not a huge step up

i waz reading ur post and yes intel really pissed me off with tim instead of thermal paste

i got a CM 212 plus from that exact microcenter for 1$...bes place in the world
July 4, 2012 1:53:03 AM

Quote:
i would say z77 w/3570k the 3770k is not a huge step up

i waz reading ur post and yes intel really pissed me off with tim instead of thermal paste

i got a CM 212 plus from that exact microcenter for 1$...bes place in the world


Hard to find though. Didn't it used to be a Circuit City? First time I went I wandered that mall until I spotted it outside like a separate box store, albeit on the top level of a car garage. Well hidden.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/523?vs=551

This comparison, specifically the "Cinebench R10 - Single Threaded Benchmark" worries me about the 3820. Is it really that far behind (3.5 GHz vs 3.6GHz, so IPC is the test here)?

July 4, 2012 1:58:00 AM

cetane said:
Quote:
i would say z77 w/3570k the 3770k is not a huge step up

i waz reading ur post and yes intel really pissed me off with tim instead of thermal paste

i got a CM 212 plus from that exact microcenter for 1$...bes place in the world


Hard to find though. Didn't it used to be a Circuit City? First time I went I wandered that mall until I spotted it outside like a separate box store, albeit on the top level of a car garage. Well hidden.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/523?vs=551

This comparison, specifically the "Cinebench R10 - Single Threaded Benchmark" worries me about the 3820. Is it really that far behind (3.5 GHz vs 3.6GHz, so IPC is the test here)?


if u get a 3820 u can't overclock

i personally would stick with the 3570k or the 3770k

u wont notice a sizable benefit in the real world

Best solution

July 4, 2012 1:58:28 AM
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Running Prime95, My 3570k doesn't get above 55 Degrees Celsius under full load. That's the max on one core, in reality there all hovering around 49 degrees. Idle temps range from 9 to 20 on the cores.
Just keep in mind I have an overkill case, two fans on the EVO and room temperature is fairly cold.

Ah, sorry about that, got confused. The 3820 only has 4 physical cores with 4 hyperthreads.

If your not doing something that will require lots of RAM and processing power, Z77 will be fine. Get Ivy Bridge instead of Sandy because of various features (PCI-3, Better integrated GPU, better memory controller, Power efficiency, etc) and the heat on them isnt so bad.
July 4, 2012 2:20:36 AM

Quote:
if u get a 3820 u can't overclock

i personally would stick with the 3570k or the 3770k

u wont notice a sizable benefit in the real world


Call me old school, but if you can change the FSB, you can overclock. The 3820 is partially unlocked to a maximum multiplier allowing 4.3 GHz. I'll do the rest through the FSB.

Quote:
Running Prime95, My 3570k doesn't get above 55 Degrees Celsius under full load. That's the max on one core, in reality there all hovering around 49 degrees.


Seriously?! On air too? What are all these reviews talking of active downclocking on IB processors due to thermal events? Does the heat really ramp up past your frequency or what? If I can get a 3770K@4.5 GHz to those temps under water, I'd be happy.
July 4, 2012 2:29:10 AM

yes the 3820 can somewhat oc but FSB based ocs I find to be slighty less stable

i wuz in microcenter the other day and they have some nice coolers for nice prices ;-)
July 4, 2012 2:46:43 AM

Again, just remember that I'v got a ridiculous amount of airflow/cooling in my case and the local weather forecast tells me its 12 Degrees outside. So you could say that I'm running in a best case scenario here.

But yes, Iv heard that Ivy does kick up heat once you start raising the voltage, which I haven't done yet. 4.2, 4.3Ghz is as high as you can get on stock voltage without hitting stability issues.
July 4, 2012 3:05:08 AM

I'm thinking this through. Haswell is a ways off, so I'm not waiting for that, but it may be a big leap if Intel isn't resting on its laurels with AMD out of the picture. New socket means new system which is big $$$. Ivy Bridge E will probably still use TIM paste instead of solder. If I dedicate the Phenom X6 as my virtual server, I can get by with that and have resources available on my Intel to do other things. By other things, I mean I probably wont miss HT for other uses, plus an I5 3570K should run cooler without HT. The $414 (after taxes) Microcenter price tag from a cheaper CPU and MOBO doesn't hurt either.

Going with the i5 3570K, I won't feel as bad knowing I paid for Intel's best (i7 3770k) when they pulled a fast one with the IHS thermal bonding issue.

And the i5 3570k should pump 5760x1080 as well as an i7 3770k as HT does nothing for games, right?
July 4, 2012 3:13:24 AM

Hyperthreading doesn't do anything for games, in some cases it lowers the FPS by a frame or two. Most games utilize one core, while you have outliers like BF3 which I think uses up to 3. But suffice to say in gaming, the 4 hyper threads wont make a difference. In computing tasks (Video editing, figuring out Pi) it will a noticeable performance increase though.

As for what resolution you can pump out depends more on your graphics card and how much VRAM it has. Your HD7970 has 3GB's of it and should be fine.
July 4, 2012 3:16:41 AM

Quote:
i wuz in microcenter the other day and they have some nice coolers for nice prices ;-)


I'll probably pick up an XSPC Raystorm while I'm there, apparently they sell them.
July 4, 2012 3:25:12 AM

Yeah, video editing is low on my priority list, and I'm sure the 30% boost from HT won't be missed but a handful of times.

i5 3570K it is then, with the Asus Sabertooth Z77. I'll just plop 16 GB of Corsair Vengeance 1866 in it and call it a day.

And for now, I'll work with my bargain 7970, with the Nvidia as simply my Einstein@home/GPUGRID compute card. In the future, I'll find another home for the Nvidia if I can snag another 7970 for $300. Driver headaches will be solved.

Thanks for the help!
July 4, 2012 3:26:49 AM

Best answer selected by Cetane.
July 4, 2012 4:19:30 PM

cetane said:
Yeah, video editing is low on my priority list, and I'm sure the 30% boost from HT won't be missed but a handful of times.

i5 3570K it is then, with the Asus Sabertooth Z77. I'll just plop 16 GB of Corsair Vengeance 1866 in it and call it a day.

And for now, I'll work with my bargain 7970, with the Nvidia as simply my Einstein@home/GPUGRID compute card. In the future, I'll find another home for the Nvidia if I can snag another 7970 for $300. Driver headaches will be solved.

Thanks for the help!


nice choice
!