Beastmaster?

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I've recently started yet another alt.

The Hunter is of the Orc race. I did all my starting quests in Mulgore -
50% roleplaying, 50% kodo riding - and plan this girl to be a
beastmaster. Sally's level 18 at the moment, and the main pet, Harry
(The Rake), is a pure dps pet. Autoskills on Harry are bite rank 2 and
Claw rank 2. His attack speed is about 1 per second, 2 per second when
clawing around. He deals at least half my damage. I play Sally as a
Melee hunter now, because I can't stand the lack of bag space for
ammunition. Besides, I need to tank for my pet, and hardly do anything
more than instant shots, so no need for endless ammo supply here.

I'll probably focus on the beast mastery talent tree all the way up to
spirit bond before switching to survival, and have the pet deal horrible
damage with criticals and frenzy everywhere while I tank for him in mail
armour, with a high dodge chance (currently 20%) and a constant heal
(20-40 per attack of the pet, could be nice coupled with frenzy, almost
better than a renew on paper).

I need to keep aggro over the pet, but I don't want to have to use cower
with him, I'd prefer Harry to focus on claws and bites. Is there any
ability similar to the warrior's sunder armour for the hunter? That is,
something useful to build aggro? Does wing clip work that way?

Concerning choice of weapons, I currently use a two-handed axe, but at
level 20, I'll be able to dual-wield. What would you do? switch to two
fast weapons?

Is it possible to bind to a key the "toggle automatic use of a pet
weapon"? (right-click on the pet skill) I'd like to be able to choose
whether to use only bite and growl/cower, or to simply spam claw
attacks. How can I do it? I'm learning pet micromanagement (only attacks
so far, everything is done in passive mode), any tips in this area?

I love this character. It's very nice to just wander around for an hour
or two without any downtime, then come back to town and handle 6-10
completed quests in a row :)

Trade skills: so far I've only picked skinning. But I find it crippling.
It takes up a load of inv space, and I'm never at the AH to sell the
skins. What else could I take? I'm thinking about enchant...

Talents: is focus regeneration a fixed amount every tick (say 10), or is
it proportional to the amount of focus your pet has with bestial
discipline (say 12 with 5/5 in BD)?

Quests: I've noticed a decreased quest drop rate with the hunter in
comparison to my priest. It took ages to collect the 4 zehvra hooves,
for example. Am I just smoking, or is it for real?

Pets: I've tried a bear, a turtle, a boar, a wolf, even a bat... and
nothing came close to The Rake. Will it be able to keep up until the
higher levels? What other interesting pets for that particular playing
style?

Anyway, I love this character. It's very nice to just wander around for
an hour or two without any downtime, then come back to town and handle 9
completed quests in a row :)
 
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Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:42910a90$0$25030$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:

> I've recently started yet another alt.
>
> The Hunter is of the Orc race. I did all my starting quests in Mulgore
> -
> 50% roleplaying, 50% kodo riding - and plan this girl to be a
> beastmaster. Sally's level 18 at the moment, and the main pet, Harry
> (The Rake), is a pure dps pet. Autoskills on Harry are bite rank 2 and
> Claw rank 2. His attack speed is about 1 per second, 2 per second when
> clawing around. He deals at least half my damage. I play Sally as a
> Melee hunter now, because I can't stand the lack of bag space for
> ammunition. Besides, I need to tank for my pet, and hardly do anything
> more than instant shots, so no need for endless ammo supply here.

You're not playing the class right if you're meleeing all the time.
You'll be less efficient at soloing, and if that's okay with you then go
for it ... but people in groups are going to be much less forgiving.

And I've only ever played as a hunter, so bag space doesn't seem like a
problem to me. A quiver is pretty much a requirement.

> I'll probably focus on the beast mastery talent tree all the way up to
> spirit bond before switching to survival, and have the pet deal
> horrible damage with criticals and frenzy everywhere while I tank for
> him in mail armour, with a high dodge chance (currently 20%) and a
> constant heal (20-40 per attack of the pet, could be nice coupled with
> frenzy, almost better than a renew on paper).

It's not a cookie cutter build, which means it's not going to be as
effective. I'm personally thinking of respecing to beast mastery just
to mix things up.

> I need to keep aggro over the pet, but I don't want to have to use
> cower with him, I'd prefer Harry to focus on claws and bites. Is there
> any ability similar to the warrior's sunder armour for the hunter?
> That is, something useful to build aggro? Does wing clip work that
> way?

As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he can
get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding, which you
should be.

> Concerning choice of weapons, I currently use a two-handed axe, but at
> level 20, I'll be able to dual-wield. What would you do? switch to two
> fast weapons?

See above.

> Is it possible to bind to a key the "toggle automatic use of a pet
> weapon"? (right-click on the pet skill) I'd like to be able to choose
> whether to use only bite and growl/cower, or to simply spam claw
> attacks. How can I do it? I'm learning pet micromanagement (only
> attacks so far, everything is done in passive mode), any tips in this
> area?

No idea, maybe look for hunter-specific addons?

> I love this character. It's very nice to just wander around for an
> hour or two without any downtime, then come back to town and handle
> 6-10 completed quests in a row :)
>
> Trade skills: so far I've only picked skinning. But I find it
> crippling. It takes up a load of inv space, and I'm never at the AH to
> sell the skins. What else could I take? I'm thinking about enchant...

Hrmm, and it's be even worse if you had to worry about a quiver.
Personally I'm mining/engineering and it's working great for me.
Doesn't seem to take as much space as skinning.

> Talents: is focus regeneration a fixed amount every tick (say 10), or
> is it proportional to the amount of focus your pet has with bestial
> discipline (say 12 with 5/5 in BD)?

No idea.

> Quests: I've noticed a decreased quest drop rate with the hunter in
> comparison to my priest. It took ages to collect the 4 zehvra hooves,
> for example. Am I just smoking, or is it for real?

You're definitely smoking.

> Pets: I've tried a bear, a turtle, a boar, a wolf, even a bat... and
> nothing came close to The Rake. Will it be able to keep up until the
> higher levels? What other interesting pets for that particular playing
> style?

It's not so much The Rake in particular as it is the cat. If you're
tanking and the pet is just a DoT, then cats are probably your best
choice. But if the pet is tanking and you're shooting from range (which
is the most efficient thing to do), you'll want a pet with more HP and
armor.


--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
 
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mindseye a écrit :
> > How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of
quest
> > items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which leaves
only a
> > bagfull of loot... not enough?
> >
>
> It gets far better when you're in the higher levels, and have the
bigger
> bags. My advise: take advantage of your bank. A bagfull of leather
means you
> need to either use it, or drop it off...a bagfull of quest items is
easily
> managed by simply DOING those quests, and not sitting on them...or
popping
> the items into the bank until you're ready to tackle 'em.
>

My main is always out of space because of the infernal engineering
skill. Even with 14slot bags. And my main has no reagant, no pots, only
a couple ores, the rest in loot...

....as for doing the quests, well sometimes you get a good group, and
*have* to log at 95% of the quest. All that is left is 4-5 useless
quest items :)

The hunter is currently in the Barrens, a zone I now know by heart (at
least 8th alt there). I'm doing many quests at a time and try to manage
them area-wise instead of level-wise, so I can get them done quicker.
My typical trip is some kind of a spiral starting from XR and expanding
northwest to the bunker, northeast into the Sludge Fen area, down to
Ratchet, southern barrens, Camp Taurajo, Lushwater Oasis, then back to
Crossroads. I know that when I get a quest in Crossroads, I won't hand
it back until the next couple of hours. Likewise, access to banks and
mailboxes are very limited. I'm litterally living off the land.

I thought Hunters were able to play that way all game long, using flint
and tinder to cook from time to time, only getting back to town every
two levels for some training?

> > I was looking for info on other named dps pets. I heard people talk
about
> > Humar the Pridelord, for example, and wanted to know your opinion.
>
> I used Humar for ~20 levels, and can vouch for his usefulness. He's
> nifty-looking, he's very fast, and makes a very decent pet.
>
> I have recently switched to a wolf, but only because the higher armor
fits
> my playstyle a tad better. I keep my Humar (renamed Edge) in the
stable just
> in case, though.

I'll have a look at him, straight in the eyes. Give me a few levels :)
 
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Cyde Weys wrote:

> Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:42910a90$0$25030$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:
>
>
>>I've recently started yet another alt.
>>
>>The Hunter is of the Orc race. I did all my starting quests in Mulgore
>>-
>> 50% roleplaying, 50% kodo riding - and plan this girl to be a
>>beastmaster. Sally's level 18 at the moment, and the main pet, Harry
>>(The Rake), is a pure dps pet. Autoskills on Harry are bite rank 2 and
>>Claw rank 2. His attack speed is about 1 per second, 2 per second when
>>clawing around. He deals at least half my damage. I play Sally as a
>>Melee hunter now, because I can't stand the lack of bag space for
>>ammunition. Besides, I need to tank for my pet, and hardly do anything
>>more than instant shots, so no need for endless ammo supply here.
>
>
> You're not playing the class right if you're meleeing all the time.
> You'll be less efficient at soloing, and if that's okay with you then go
> for it ... but people in groups are going to be much less forgiving.
>
> And I've only ever played as a hunter, so bag space doesn't seem like a
> problem to me. A quiver is pretty much a requirement.
>

How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of
quest items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which leaves
only a bagfull of loot... not enough?

>
>>I'll probably focus on the beast mastery talent tree all the way up to
>>spirit bond before switching to survival, and have the pet deal
>>horrible damage with criticals and frenzy everywhere while I tank for
>>him in mail armour, with a high dodge chance (currently 20%) and a
>>constant heal (20-40 per attack of the pet, could be nice coupled with
>>frenzy, almost better than a renew on paper).
>
>
> It's not a cookie cutter build, which means it's not going to be as
> effective. I'm personally thinking of respecing to beast mastery just
> to mix things up.

I've read somewhere someone talking about 200dps from the pet itself.
And I'd still have ranged firepower, just in case...

>>I need to keep aggro over the pet, but I don't want to have to use
>>cower with him, I'd prefer Harry to focus on claws and bites. Is there
>>any ability similar to the warrior's sunder armour for the hunter?
>>That is, something useful to build aggro? Does wing clip work that
>>way?
>
>
> As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he can
> get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding, which you
> should be.

Again, with him doing higher damage than me? He currently gains aggro
from time to time, and I have a tough time getting it back.

>
>
>>Concerning choice of weapons, I currently use a two-handed axe, but at
>>level 20, I'll be able to dual-wield. What would you do? switch to two
>>fast weapons?
>
>
> See above.

Ok, will do that.

>>I love this character. It's very nice to just wander around for an
>>hour or two without any downtime, then come back to town and handle
>>6-10 completed quests in a row :)
>>
>>Trade skills: so far I've only picked skinning. But I find it
>>crippling. It takes up a load of inv space, and I'm never at the AH to
>>sell the skins. What else could I take? I'm thinking about enchant...
>
>
> Hrmm, and it's be even worse if you had to worry about a quiver.
> Personally I'm mining/engineering and it's working great for me.
> Doesn't seem to take as much space as skinning.

But isn't mining conflicting with tracking? Besides, I already have a
mining/engineer.


>>Pets: I've tried a bear, a turtle, a boar, a wolf, even a bat... and
>>nothing came close to The Rake. Will it be able to keep up until the
>>higher levels? What other interesting pets for that particular playing
>>style?
>
>
> It's not so much The Rake in particular as it is the cat. If you're
> tanking and the pet is just a DoT, then cats are probably your best
> choice. But if the pet is tanking and you're shooting from range (which
> is the most efficient thing to do), you'll want a pet with more HP and
> armor.

I was looking for info on other named dps pets. I heard people talk
about Humar the Pridelord, for example, and wanted to know your opinion.
 

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> How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of quest
> items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which leaves only a
> bagfull of loot... not enough?
>

It gets far better when you're in the higher levels, and have the bigger
bags. My advise: take advantage of your bank. A bagfull of leather means you
need to either use it, or drop it off...a bagfull of quest items is easily
managed by simply DOING those quests, and not sitting on them...or popping
the items into the bank until you're ready to tackle 'em.

> But isn't mining conflicting with tracking? Besides, I already have a
> mining/engineer.
>

Mining WILL conflict with tracking, yes, which means you'll either have to
keep a sharp eye out for mines, a sharp eye out for beasties, or switch back
and forth from time to time.

Or, I suppose, do all your mining in spurts, ignoring everything else.

> I was looking for info on other named dps pets. I heard people talk about
> Humar the Pridelord, for example, and wanted to know your opinion.

I used Humar for ~20 levels, and can vouch for his usefulness. He's
nifty-looking, he's very fast, and makes a very decent pet.

I have recently switched to a wolf, but only because the higher armor fits
my playstyle a tad better. I keep my Humar (renamed Edge) in the stable just
in case, though.

-[Blayde]-
 
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On Mon, 23 May 2005 06:15:39 +0200, Babe Bridou
<babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:

>How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of
>quest items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which leaves
>only a bagfull of loot... not enough?

Twink with your main, and get her some nice big bags.
Or visit town, or at least a vendor, more often.

>>>Trade skills: so far I've only picked skinning. But I find it
>>>crippling. It takes up a load of inv space, and I'm never at the AH to
>>>sell the skins.

Make a mule, park him in Orgrimmar and send all your AH items there,
sell and then send the money back. This also helps on the bag
situation - mailboxes are much more common than trips to the AH.

>What else could I take? I'm thinking about enchant...

Enchanting is nice. One thing I always miss on my main is the ability
to disenchant soulbound items that I no longer use.

>But isn't mining conflicting with tracking? Besides, I already have a
>mining/engineer.

Hunters already have to juggle tracking all the time, one more should
not be a big issue. Just be glad you are not a mining, herbalism,
dwarf hunter. :)

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
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Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:42915920$0$25014$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:

> Cyde Weys wrote:

>> You're not playing the class right if you're meleeing all the time.
>> You'll be less efficient at soloing, and if that's okay with you then
>> go for it ... but people in groups are going to be much less
>> forgiving.
>>
>> And I've only ever played as a hunter, so bag space doesn't seem like
>> a problem to me. A quiver is pretty much a requirement.
>>
>
> How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of
> quest items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which leaves
> only a bagfull of loot... not enough?

A bag full of food? That's crazy talk. I keep one, maybe two stacks of
food maximum, and that lasts me for a good long time. I do keep lots of
random junk in my bags but that's only because I keep lots of trade
materials in my bank, so it's kind of my fault anyway. I should use the
auction house more (or less).


> I've read somewhere someone talking about 200dps from the pet itself.
> And I'd still have ranged firepower, just in case...

200dps from the pet itself?! Unpossible ...


>> As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he can
>> get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding, which
>> you should be.
>
> Again, with him doing higher damage than me? He currently gains aggro
> from time to time, and I have a tough time getting it back.

He might do more damage than you in melee but no way is he ever going to
do more damage than you at ranged, which is how you should be fighting.

>> Hrmm, and it's be even worse if you had to worry about a quiver.
>> Personally I'm mining/engineering and it's working great for me.
>> Doesn't seem to take as much space as skinning.
>
> But isn't mining conflicting with tracking? Besides, I already have a
> mining/engineer.

Unfortunately yes, but there's supposed to be a fix in the works.
Besides, tracking isn't THAT useful outdoors ... you can see the enemies
anyway. When I'm outdoors and not in PvP (I'm not on a PvP server), I
have Track Minerals on. In caves is a bit more tricky, as tracking is
actually useful but I can still find minerals.

On a PvP server you might want Track Humanoids on 24/7.

>> It's not so much The Rake in particular as it is the cat. If you're
>> tanking and the pet is just a DoT, then cats are probably your best
>> choice. But if the pet is tanking and you're shooting from range
>> (which is the most efficient thing to do), you'll want a pet with
>> more HP and armor.
>
> I was looking for info on other named dps pets. I heard people talk
> about Humar the Pridelord, for example, and wanted to know your
> opinion.

The individuality of pets has already been nerfed and will continue to
be nerfed. I used to have my pet King Bangalash because of his really
fast speed, but now he's pretty much just like any cat. The Rake has
also come down in power. Blizzard wanted it so that everyone didn't
have exactly the same "uber pets", so you're supposed to pick your pet
now based on whatever skin you like.

Some pets used to be worth training because of their resists ... not
anymore. And they nerfed some of the faster attack speeds on pets too.
I would just say not worry about it and get whatever cat you like ... it
won't make that big of a difference.

--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
 
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On Mon, 23 May 2005 00:40:30 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
scribed into the ether:

>. I play Sally as a
>Melee hunter now, because I can't stand the lack of bag space for
>ammunition. Besides, I need to tank for my pet, and hardly do anything
>more than instant shots, so no need for endless ammo supply here.

This is decent in the low levels, but mobs will start to really cut you a
new one later on. Your bow is your most effective tool. Ignoring it is
going to cripple your character.

>I'll probably focus on the beast mastery talent tree all the way up to
>spirit bond before switching to survival, and have the pet deal horrible
>damage with criticals and frenzy everywhere while I tank for him in mail
>armour, with a high dodge chance (currently 20%) and a constant heal
>(20-40 per attack of the pet, could be nice coupled with frenzy, almost
>better than a renew on paper).

Spirit Bond is not an ability which it is even possible to have running all
the time. It lasts about 30 seconds, and comes with a fairly substantial
cooldown (5 minutes? 10? Not sure).

>I need to keep aggro over the pet, but I don't want to have to use cower
>with him, I'd prefer Harry to focus on claws and bites. Is there any
>ability similar to the warrior's sunder armour for the hunter? That is,
>something useful to build aggro? Does wing clip work that way?

Wing Clip is a decent aggro-generator, but that's about it. There is
however, an arrow shot whose sole purpose is aggro generation, and you
could lead off with that.

>Concerning choice of weapons, I currently use a two-handed axe, but at
>level 20, I'll be able to dual-wield. What would you do? switch to two
>fast weapons?

No. Hunters have no abilities to counter the giant penalties given by dual
wielding. Dual wielding is a frightening exercise in whiffing.

>Talents: is focus regeneration a fixed amount every tick (say 10), or is
>it proportional to the amount of focus your pet has with bestial
>discipline (say 12 with 5/5 in BD)?

Don't know how the regeneration is handled, only that it is *very* fast.
Akin to rogues regaining energy. Bestial Discipline is a BAD BAD BAD talent
to take.

31 point Beast Tree Build:
5 Endurance Training
2 Improved Aspect of the Hawk (nothing else worth it)
3 Improved Aspect of the Monkey (good even if you don't melee a
lot...invaluable if you do)
5 Unleashed Fury (Currently bugged, and only provides 1% boost instead of
the listed 2%, but still worth it, and it may get fixed)
3 Thick Hide (I'd recommend 5 here, but this is a DPS build, and only 31
points)
5 Ferocity
2 Improved Mend Pet (pre-req)
5 Frenzy
1 Spirit Bond

If you plan on PvPing, then you probably want to include Bestial Swiftness
in there somewhere.

>Pets: I've tried a bear, a turtle, a boar, a wolf, even a bat... and
>nothing came close to The Rake. Will it be able to keep up until the
>higher levels? What other interesting pets for that particular playing
>style?

Since your goal is a DPS pet, then a cat is really your best option.
 
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Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in
news:pfk4915o5vqrccqtesp970oq0nr15bfv8d@4ax.com:


>>> As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he
>>> can get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding,
>>> which you should be.
>
> Dual wielding is very bad for a Hunter if you actually want to hurt
> things with your melee weapons that aren't green to you. Dual wielding
> is useful for stats to improve archery (and usually not even then...a
> 2H with agility is going to be better than 2 1H with agility)

What? I alternately dual-wield and use my Gravestone War Axe, and there
isn't really that much of a difference. So I prefer to dual wield because
I get the hits in faster (better for interrupting casters). You're right,
you do miss more, because you have to, otherwise you'd do the combined DPS
of both weapons which would be more than any 2H weapon and thus unbalanced.

--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
 
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Cyde Weys a écrit :
> Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:42915920$0$25014$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:

> > How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of

> > quest items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which
leaves
> > only a bagfull of loot... not enough?
>
> A bag full of food? That's crazy talk. I keep one, maybe two stacks
of
> food maximum, and that lasts me for a good long time. I do keep lots
of
> random junk in my bags but that's only because I keep lots of trade
> materials in my bank, so it's kind of my fault anyway. I should use
the
> auction house more (or less).

Nevermind, I solved the problem by simply ditching the quiver. Much
more space for loot, and I need it badly :) Seen as I fire at most 3-4
bullets in a fight while charging the enemy (viper sting/pet
attack/arcane shot/raptor strike/wingclip is my
five-point-palm-exploding-pull-technique)

> > I've read somewhere someone talking about 200dps from the pet
itself.
> > And I'd still have ranged firepower, just in case...
>
> 200dps from the pet itself?! Unpossible ...

Some quick maths to make up my own mind about this case.

Orc beastmaster
20% chance to crit
15% increased damage
30% attack speed increase after a crit for 8 seconds

Cat estimate normal attack damage at level 60: 63dps
Fighting technique:
1: Bite 90 damage
2: Claw 51 damage
3: Claw 51 damage
4: Claw 51 damage
5: -
6: -
7: -
8: Claw 51 damage
9: -
10: -
11: -
12: Bite 90 damage

damage in the first 12 seconds (abilities): 384 damage.
damage in the first 12 seconds (normal damage): 756 damage.
Factoring Improved damage from race & talents (abilities): 441 damage.
Factoring Improved damage from race & talents (normal): 869 damage.
Factoring 20% Criticals: abilities (485 damage) and normal (956 damage)
Considering a Critical somewhere in the first 4 seconds (at least 5
hits, 8 with Broken Tooth):
Factoring 30% Frenzy for 3/4th of the time (normal only): 1171 damage

total: cat deals 1657 average damage in the first 12 seconds. 138dps.

In comparison, same pet in the hand of a night elf marksman, using
growl & bite only:
total damage in the first 12 seconds (abilities): 180 damage
total damage in the first 12 seconds (normal): 756 damage
Factoring 5% criticals: 960 total damage

total: cat deals 960 average damage in the first 12 seconds. 80dps

After the first 12 seconds, damage drops to about 115dps, while focus
recharges. I intend to keep claw bursts for when I need life (spirit
bond).

I guess the guy with 200dps was a bit lucky with criticals :) Still
58dps is quite an improvement in my opinion, to compare with dps
improvement from marksman tree talents. Beside, can you also buff the
pet with scrolls, maybe with some other items as well?


> >> As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he
can
> >> get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding, which
> >> you should be.
> >
> > Again, with him doing higher damage than me? He currently gains
aggro
> > from time to time, and I have a tough time getting it back.
>
> He might do more damage than you in melee but no way is he ever going
to
> do more damage than you at ranged, which is how you should be
fighting.
>

Not necessarily, again. I will fight in melee for roleplaying reasons,
and I'd hoped you could help me make it good. This includes aggro
juggling between the pet and I. I already see disengage as a good tool
for when I need to give it aggro for a while, but eh, I don't know the
higher level skills.

> >> Hrmm, and it's be even worse if you had to worry about a quiver.
> >> Personally I'm mining/engineering and it's working great for me.
> >> Doesn't seem to take as much space as skinning.
> >
> > But isn't mining conflicting with tracking? Besides, I already have
a
> > mining/engineer.
>
> Unfortunately yes, but there's supposed to be a fix in the works.
> Besides, tracking isn't THAT useful outdoors ... you can see the
enemies
> anyway. When I'm outdoors and not in PvP (I'm not on a PvP server),
I
> have Track Minerals on. In caves is a bit more tricky, as tracking
is
> actually useful but I can still find minerals.
>
> On a PvP server you might want Track Humanoids on 24/7.

What about track hidden?

does it raise the "swoosh" sound from further away, so I can
immediately set an immo trap and/or a flare? Rogues are the problem on
a pvp server.

>
> >> It's not so much The Rake in particular as it is the cat. If
you're
> >> tanking and the pet is just a DoT, then cats are probably your
best
> >> choice. But if the pet is tanking and you're shooting from range
> >> (which is the most efficient thing to do), you'll want a pet with
> >> more HP and armor.
> >
> > I was looking for info on other named dps pets. I heard people talk

> > about Humar the Pridelord, for example, and wanted to know your
> > opinion.
>
> The individuality of pets has already been nerfed and will continue
to
> be nerfed. I used to have my pet King Bangalash because of his
really
> fast speed, but now he's pretty much just like any cat. The Rake has
> also come down in power. Blizzard wanted it so that everyone didn't
> have exactly the same "uber pets", so you're supposed to pick your
pet
> now based on whatever skin you like.
>
> Some pets used to be worth training because of their resists ... not
> anymore. And they nerfed some of the faster attack speeds on pets
too.
> I would just say not worry about it and get whatever cat you like ...
it
> won't make that big of a difference.
>

I've been looking around, it seems Broken Tooth, a 1.0 sec attack speed
cat, has been added to the game after all. level 40something in the
Badlands near Uldaman. Good for the spirit bond addicts.

Spirit Bond is instant cast, lasts 30sec and has no cooldown. At higher
levels I could heal myself for anything between 40/tick (600 life, 180
mana) to 160/tick (2400 life, 325 mana), depending on the level of
spirit bond I cast and the amount of claw attacks the pet does. With
frenzy it can go even higher. I find it very good on paper. Spirit Bond
+ Mail armour + 25% dodge + parry, that seems more than enough for
soloing purposes outside of instances.
 
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On Mon, 23 May 2005 23:16:10 GMT, Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> scribed into the
ether:

>Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in
>news:pfk4915o5vqrccqtesp970oq0nr15bfv8d@4ax.com:
>
>
>>>> As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he
>>>> can get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding,
>>>> which you should be.
>>
>> Dual wielding is very bad for a Hunter if you actually want to hurt
>> things with your melee weapons that aren't green to you. Dual wielding
>> is useful for stats to improve archery (and usually not even then...a
>> 2H with agility is going to be better than 2 1H with agility)
>
>What? I alternately dual-wield and use my Gravestone War Axe, and there
>isn't really that much of a difference.

I not only notice a difference, but I parse a huge one.

> So I prefer to dual wield because
>I get the hits in faster (better for interrupting casters).

Interrupting casters is not of any import to me. NPCs ignore such
trivialities, and I do not ever PvP.

> You're right,
>you do miss more, because you have to, otherwise you'd do the combined DPS
>of both weapons which would be more than any 2H weapon and thus unbalanced.

I know the reasoning behind it, but I despise the missing. In an ideal
world, they'd let hunters use shields. I'd be all over that like white on
rice.
 
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Matt Frisch a écrit :
> Ok, that person is lying, and spectacularly so. 200 DPS is quite an
> achievement from even a top-equipped heavy-marksman Hunter (top
equipped
> being high-end group instance stuff, but not including raid loot from
> Molten Core and such). The pet doing that by itself? Maybe in tiny
brief
> spurts, but sustained DPS is the only relevant metric.

See my previous answer to Cyde. Beast mastery talents give the cat pet
anything between 110 and 138 average DPS. 138 average in bursts, 110
average out of bursts (ie: regular fire and forget damage = 110 dps
from the pet). 80 average DPS for the marksman's pet. But the
beastmaster's pet can more easily go crit-crazy (4 times more crits),
and it wouldn't be so surprising to see a nice 200dps from the pet
itself over the course of one (short) fight.

It seems to me that the remaining 90dps are a joke to get with a bow
(or a weapon, for that matter). Heck, that's the damage my level 51
priest does when in economy mode with only shadow word:pain and her
wand. Except my holy priest outlast your gunman's quiver. Either you're
lying, or the hunters are poor, poor Damage dealers.

200dps? quite an achievement? Sorry, I still don't buy it.

Unless you're talking about a petless hunter, of course.

>
> >> As long as the pet has growl off there really should be no way he
can
> >> get aggro over you. Especially not if you're dual-wielding, which
you
> >> should be.
>
> Dual wielding is very bad for a Hunter if you actually want to hurt
things
> with your melee weapons that aren't green to you. Dual wielding is
useful
> for stats to improve archery (and usually not even then...a 2H with
agility
> is going to be better than 2 1H with agility)
>
> >Again, with him doing higher damage than me? He currently gains
aggro
> >from time to time, and I have a tough time getting it back.
>
> Using a bow, your pet should be doing about 1/3rd your total DPS.
That your
> pet is out-damaging you should show you the error of the melee-hunter
> concept.

How so? a beastmaster's most lethal weapon is the pet. You're watching
the wrong movie, pal, there's no 1/3rd ratio here ;) Try using claw
bursts some time, with claw bursts the pet does double damage for 5
seconds, with about 10 seconds cooldown... meaning for 5 seconds the
pet deals about as much damage as you, the marksman. Of course, you're
a marksman, you won't use this else the pet can't growl to keep mobs
away from you. So you gimp your pet. I'm a melee fighter, and I wan't
aggro. So I can double the damage of my pet for 5 secs, and wait for 10
secs for the focus to regen... I don't see at all how this makes the
melee-hunter concept an "error". I'm no expert, but you're denying
something that is possible in this game. Did you try?
 
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"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Beside, can you also buff the
> pet with scrolls, maybe with some other items as well?

I can cast thorn, MOTW, and dot healing (or any other beneficial
spell) on them, so I guess they behave like PCs.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (45) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
 
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On 24 May 2005 05:52:44 -0700, "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com>
scribed into the ether:

>Cyde Weys a écrit :
>> Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:42915920$0$25014$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:
>
>
>
>I guess the guy with 200dps was a bit lucky with criticals :) Still
>58dps is quite an improvement in my opinion, to compare with dps
>improvement from marksman tree talents.

138 DPS for anything but the briefest of instants seems quite a bit beyond
any pet as well, to be honest.

> Beside, can you also buff the
>pet with scrolls, maybe with some other items as well?

Yes, but rarely worth it. The only thing I usually bother putting on the
pet is the Admiral's Hat, but only because that thing is buggy. I'm
actually pretty shocked that the devs haven't fixed it, seing as how the
bug is beneficial to the players.

>> He might do more damage than you in melee but no way is he ever going
>>to do more damage than you at ranged, which is how you should be
>>fighting.
>
>Not necessarily, again. I will fight in melee for roleplaying reasons,
>and I'd hoped you could help me make it good.

Be a rogue. Seriously. 10x more damage than a meleeing hunter is capable
of, more utility, far better aggro control, and they tank better too.


>> On a PvP server you might want Track Humanoids on 24/7.
>
>What about track hidden?

Useless. Completely and totally. By the time Track Hidden will show things
to you, they are close enough for you to just flat-out see anyway, which
means they aren't hidden, which means Track Hidden won't pick them up.

I've tested this ability in places with large numbers of known hiders (the
piggies down in the southern barrens, panthers in stranglethorn, etc), and
track hidden quite simply never picked anything up, ever.



>> Some pets used to be worth training because of their resists ... not
>> anymore. And they nerfed some of the faster attack speeds on pets
>>too. I would just say not worry about it and get whatever cat you like ...
>>it won't make that big of a difference.
>>
>
>I've been looking around, it seems Broken Tooth, a 1.0 sec attack speed
>cat, has been added to the game after all. level 40something in the
>Badlands near Uldaman. Good for the spirit bond addicts.

As soon as it becomes widely known, Blizzard will nerf it. That's an
ironclad guarantee. Spire Spiderlings (infinitely harder to get than
anything near Uldaman would be) used to have a 1.0 attack speed, but that
got smashed not long after people started getting them in large numbers.
 
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On 24 May 2005 06:33:02 -0700, "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com>
scribed into the ether:

>
>Matt Frisch a écrit :
>> Ok, that person is lying, and spectacularly so. 200 DPS is quite an
>> achievement from even a top-equipped heavy-marksman Hunter (top
>equipped
>> being high-end group instance stuff, but not including raid loot from
>> Molten Core and such). The pet doing that by itself? Maybe in tiny
>brief
>> spurts, but sustained DPS is the only relevant metric.
>
>See my previous answer to Cyde. Beast mastery talents give the cat pet
>anything between 110 and 138 average DPS. 138 average in bursts, 110
>average out of bursts (ie: regular fire and forget damage = 110 dps
>from the pet). 80 average DPS for the marksman's pet. But the
>beastmaster's pet can more easily go crit-crazy (4 times more crits),

With not-so-great gear and trivial effort, I could easily get a 20% crit
rate with my bow. Combined with Mortal Shots, it's a giant chunk of damage.

And as I said in my reply to your reply, 138 seems pretty high by itself.

>It seems to me that the remaining 90dps are a joke to get with a bow
>(or a weapon, for that matter). Heck, that's the damage my level 51
>priest does when in economy mode with only shadow word:pain and her
>wand.

90 DPS isn't hard. But that's a far cry from 200. It is also worth noting
that spell damage isn't subject to armor the way melee/ranged is. Resists,
yes, but there are talents for that, and in my experience with my Priest,
resists are pretty rare.

> Except my holy priest outlast your gunman's quiver.

Uh...not. Shooting absolutely nonstop, it would take my hunter a little
under 2 hours to empty the quiver. The only time I've ever come close to
running out of arrows (I've never ACTUALLY run out of arrows) was in doing
2 complete runs of BRD back to back. A gun-using engineer is in an even
better spot, as he can carry around raw materials for bullets which take up
a lot less space and can be made on the fly (not mithril or thorium
bullets, but any bullet is better than an empty ammo pouch).

> Either you're
>lying, or the hunters are poor, poor Damage dealers.

Hunter DPS took a big hit a couple of patches ago, and it was never
awe-inspiring to begin with.

>200dps? quite an achievement? Sorry, I still don't buy it.
>
>Unless you're talking about a petless hunter, of course.

Hunter without factoring in pet damage. 200 DPS is achievable, to be sure,
but it is not by any stretch easy.

>> >Again, with him doing higher damage than me? He currently gains
>> >aggro from time to time, and I have a tough time getting it back.
>>
>> Using a bow, your pet should be doing about 1/3rd your total DPS.
>>That your pet is out-damaging you should show you the error of the melee-hunter
>> concept.
>
>How so? a beastmaster's most lethal weapon is the pet. You're watching
>the wrong movie, pal, there's no 1/3rd ratio here ;)

I did rather specifically state that it was "with a bow", yes?

>Try using claw bursts some time, with claw bursts the pet does double damage for 5
>seconds, with about 10 seconds cooldown...

I stopped being impressed with Claw when they fixed the focus cost for it
(nearly doubling it). Bite is better for aggro, and in long fights, it is
better for DPS too, since your pet isn't constantly out of focus and unable
to do any special moves.

>meaning for 5 seconds the pet deals about as much damage as you, the marksman.

1) I doubt it. In 5 seconds I'm virtually guaranteed of at least 1 crit for
600-ish points, that's 120 DPS over the whole span for 1 shot, and doesn't
factor in the other shots (and Serpent Sting) during that time.
2) 5 whole seconds eh? Wow, in a 20 second fight, that sure means a lot.
Means a lot more in a 2 minute fight, I'm sure.

> So you gimp your pet. I'm a melee fighter, and I wan't aggro.

So you gimp yourself instead. Not much of a tradeoff if you ask me.

I don't want aggro. Aggro is really bad. You won't want aggro later on
either. A 31 point Beast build means 20 points into Survival, which means
you can't even get the best ability in the whole tree...Counterattack.

> So I can double the damage of my pet for 5 secs, and wait for 10
>secs for the focus to regen... I don't see at all how this makes the
>melee-hunter concept an "error".

Leaving aside PvP, sustained DPS is better than burst DPS. Burst DPS can't
be counted on. It would be nice if this was some magical world where you
could fight only 1 thing at a time every time, and had a nice 5-10 seconds
between each fight in which to recover...but this isn't that magical world.

Try fighting 3 simultaneous level 58-59 trolls in East Plaguelands,
especially the Shadowhunters. I can win that fight every time with a bow.

> I'm no expert, but you're denying
>something that is possible in this game.

I know how fast I die when I get aggro at level 60. That's all I need to
know about what is and is not possible. The pets of dead hunters contribute
a surprisingly small amount of damage.

> Did you try?

There's enough un-fun gameplay in WoW without deliberately making some of
my own.
 
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On Mon, 23 May 2005 18:51:25 GMT, Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

>Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:42915920$0$25014$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:
>
>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>>> You're not playing the class right if you're meleeing all the time.
>>> You'll be less efficient at soloing, and if that's okay with you then
>>> go for it ... but people in groups are going to be much less
>>> forgiving.
>>>
>>> And I've only ever played as a hunter, so bag space doesn't seem like
>>> a problem to me. A quiver is pretty much a requirement.
>>>
>>
>> How do you handle? I currently have a bagfull of food, a bagfull of
>> quest items, a bagfull of skins, a bagfull of bullets.... which leaves
>> only a bagfull of loot... not enough?
>
>A bag full of food? That's crazy talk. I keep one, maybe two stacks of
>food maximum, and that lasts me for a good long time. I do keep lots of
>random junk in my bags but that's only because I keep lots of trade
>materials in my bank, so it's kind of my fault anyway.
I tend to agree. I guess it's possible it will vary by pet (if you
insist on one that doesn't eat meat, for example), but still. Even
feeding simple, uncooked drops to my pet, even allowing for my own
dodgy play and probably far-too-frequent pet deaths, a couple of full
stacks of food have been all my hunter's ever needed to keep the pet
punching away at a permanent 125% (to date at least - he's currently
in the mid 40's). Add the biggest quiver (bought as soon as I hit
level 40) and three 14-slot bags (expensive outlay but worth their
weight as soon as you can afford them), and the biggest problem I
currently have is my (herbalist/alchemist) urge to pick every even
slightly uncommon herb in sight, whether I actually need it or not.

Yup - *my* bank's full of trade stuff, too.

Cheers - Ian
 
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It kinda gives me a chuckle when you say she's roleplaying and then
provide all the technical details to the dot. Nothing wrong with that,
just kind of contrasting. Like, she's a melee hunter because you can't
stand one less backpack... what's RP about that? oh right, girls can't
say no to shoes and handbags :)
 
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wolfing wrote:
> It kinda gives me a chuckle when you say she's roleplaying and then
> provide all the technical details to the dot. Nothing wrong with that,
> just kind of contrasting. Like, she's a melee hunter because you can't
> stand one less backpack... what's RP about that? oh right, girls can't
> say no to shoes and handbags :)

Well, contrasting, ok, but there's no reason it would be contradictory.
I've *decided* that my character would be Beastmaster/Survival specced.
Why she's building her melee abilities has nothing to do with why she
doesn't use a quiver. To quiver or not to quiver is a reasonable debate
among hunters that do not rely only on arrows to deal damage. Fact is,
when you finish an ammo slot without a quiver, you can fill it with
another item. Yours to say if it's practically worth the loss of 12%
dps (13%? don't remember) with your ranged attacks. So far all my
points went to beastmastery, so I'm technically no less a ranged
fighter than a melee fighter. So, to quiver, or not to quiver?

In short - given the fact that she's a hunter, not a sniper, that she
uses her skills so that the enemy cannot escape, not to allow her to
escape the enemy... That naturally lead me to the melee-focused build.
Now, how to build her effectively? How to improve her hunting skills?
How many bullets does she needs per day out hunting? How to use her
traps? Does she need the hindrance of a quiver for only 200-400 arrows
per day? How much food does she need to carry? Which beasts to hunt for
pet skills? That's roleplaying as well. She's still a rookie, mind you.

I looked into the technical details about the pet's end game damage,
because I, as a player, was curious.

If you want to know more about the roleplaying aspect - check the story
of Sally in this thread of our Realms Forum:

http://sunstrider.net/showthread.php?t=313
 
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Matt Frisch wrote:
> On 24 May 2005 05:52:44 -0700, "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com>
> scribed into the ether:
>
>
>>Cyde Weys a écrit :
>>
>>>Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:42915920$0$25014$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:
>>
>>
>>
>>I guess the guy with 200dps was a bit lucky with criticals :) Still
>>58dps is quite an improvement in my opinion, to compare with dps
>>improvement from marksman tree talents.
>
>
> 138 DPS for anything but the briefest of instants seems quite a bit beyond
> any pet as well, to be honest.
>

You know, it's just theory, but the pet's damage I calculated is
something like "200dps for 5 seconds, then 100 dps for 10 seconds, then
200 for 5 seconds, then 100 for 10 seconds, etc." Over the course of a 5
minutes fight, that's about 130 theoretical damage per second.

130ish average dps from the pet is really, really not surprising to me.
Yesterday I've played with Blessing of the Warchief on the Pet (15% more
attack speed, among other goodies) and he was easily at 35-40 dps each
fight already. I was only level 20, without any talent to improve my
pet's damage yet.

I don't use a bow to save room. But I still carry a ranged weapon and
like 3 stacks of ammo, and I'm still always out of space. It's not bad
inventory management, it's just that I loot non-stop, everything, and
only go to town when all the quests in an area are finished, or when I
know that I need to trigger a chain quest, because I hate long,
pointless travels. I know for sure that will change once I reach level
40something, when I get a mount, and have no more interest in grinding
everything I can find.

2000+ aimed shot crits make me spit when land nagas cast it from
shadowmeld. I don't want that lowdown tool in my arsenal. I asked you to
help me build a beastmaster/survival hunter, and all you do is telling
me that it won't work. Well where's the novelty, where's the challenge?
Why not help me maximize that kind of gameplay, even if it turns out
less powerful than a marxman? What the fuss in denying without any solid
argument what I intend to do? At least make your counterpoint useful,
please. You're trying to keep me from playing it the way I want, because
in your opinion it's useless. I'm playing for fun, and that fun is the
one I want to have, so if you can help me strengthen that
beastmaster/survival hunter, by all means do it, and stop talking about
how it's useless and marksmanship is better - it could be an almighty
talent tree, I don't care, I still won't invest a single point in there.

>
>>Beside, can you also buff the
>>pet with scrolls, maybe with some other items as well?
>
>
> Yes, but rarely worth it. The only thing I usually bother putting on the
> pet is the Admiral's Hat, but only because that thing is buggy. I'm
> actually pretty shocked that the devs haven't fixed it, seing as how the
> bug is beneficial to the players.
>

Tell me more about the Admiral's Hat, please.

>
>>>He might do more damage than you in melee but no way is he ever going
>>>to do more damage than you at ranged, which is how you should be
>>>fighting.
>>
>>Not necessarily, again. I will fight in melee for roleplaying reasons,
>>and I'd hoped you could help me make it good.
>
>
> Be a rogue. Seriously. 10x more damage than a meleeing hunter is capable
> of, more utility, far better aggro control, and they tank better too.
>

I don't want the utility of a rogue for this character. Rogues are a
despiseful, killed on sight, dishonourable and greatly overpopulated
people on my server. In fact I play on a PVP server, and this melee
hunter is in my opinion a roguehunter. I hunt rogues. 90% of the lone
people I meet at higher levels are rogue gankers. I want them all dead.
It's roleplaying. I use wingclip to prevent the prey from running away
or moving in fights, not to keep them at range. I'm a hunter, not a
wussy archer.

>
>
>>>On a PvP server you might want Track Humanoids on 24/7.
>>
>>What about track hidden?
>
>
> Useless. Completely and totally. By the time Track Hidden will show things
> to you, they are close enough for you to just flat-out see anyway, which
> means they aren't hidden, which means Track Hidden won't pick them up.
>
> I've tested this ability in places with large numbers of known hiders (the
> piggies down in the southern barrens, panthers in stranglethorn, etc), and
> track hidden quite simply never picked anything up, ever.
>

How is it supposed to work? I thought it increased the detection range.
My intent is to lay an immolation, freezing trap or flare right when I
hear the "swoosh sound" to take the rogue by surprise, and thought track
hidden could allow me to do it sooner. I thought it could be my
anti-rogue tool...?

As for hidden mobs, well you more or less see them already from far away
without it. But higher level Rogues with discretion talents?
 
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Like I said, nothing wrong with that, it's just strange for a RPer to
get into the technical details of DPS and stuff.
Me? I know nothing. Don't know if lion has better stats than a pig as
a pet. I use a crocodile, but haven't checked if the stats are better
than a raptor's. I hear people saying stuff like Beast/survival 70/30
and stuff, all I know is that when I get a talent point I read the
descriptions of the things I can add it to, and add it to the coolest
sounding one. Some of my equipment dates back from like lvl 2... (at
17 he is now)... Also, I use guns almost all the time (bring my sword
out only if mob kills pet or I outdamage the taunt) but I don't have an
ammo pouch... still, I can kill stuff 2 levels above me. I think the
game's too easy (with the carelessness I play, I shouldn't be able to
kill stuff above my level, even less stuff 2 levels above me). Guess
if I did PvP it would matter more, but since I'm not interested in
that, no problemo
 
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:03:47 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
scribed into the ether:

>Matt Frisch wrote:
>> On 24 May 2005 05:52:44 -0700, "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com>
>> scribed into the ether:
>>
>>>Cyde Weys a écrit :
>>>
>>>>Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>news:42915920$0$25014$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr:
>>>
>>>I guess the guy with 200dps was a bit lucky with criticals :) Still
>>>58dps is quite an improvement in my opinion, to compare with dps
>>>improvement from marksman tree talents.
>>
>>
>> 138 DPS for anything but the briefest of instants seems quite a bit beyond
>> any pet as well, to be honest.
>>
>
>You know, it's just theory, but the pet's damage I calculated is
>something like "200dps for 5 seconds, then 100 dps for 10 seconds, then
>200 for 5 seconds, then 100 for 10 seconds, etc." Over the course of a 5
>minutes fight, that's about 130 theoretical damage per second.
>
>130ish average dps from the pet is really, really not surprising to me.
>Yesterday I've played with Blessing of the Warchief on the Pet (15% more
>attack speed, among other goodies) and he was easily at 35-40 dps each
>fight already. I was only level 20, without any talent to improve my
>pet's damage yet.

Unfortunately, this doesn't translate in a linear fashion to high level.
Low level mobs have horrible armor, and thus negate only a small portion of
incoming damage. 20% reduction is very very high in that range. Most stuff
in the late 50s+ has 40% reduction at minimum.

>I don't use a bow to save room. But I still carry a ranged weapon and
>like 3 stacks of ammo, and I'm still always out of space. It's not bad
>inventory management, it's just that I loot non-stop, everything, and
>only go to town

But you've also described carrying around an entire bag of food, and an
entire bag of skinned leather. How can we *not* come to the conclusion of
bad inventory management? In my lower levels, I had horrible luck with bag
drops (and since I out-leveled basically the entire server, no tailors to
make them). I didn't get my first 10-slot bag until close to 30. I didn't
get my second 10-slot bag until after 40. I had periodic trouble with
inventory, but nothing like the epidemic you describe, and I also looted
anything and everything.

>2000+ aimed shot crits make me spit when land nagas cast it from
>shadowmeld. I don't want that lowdown tool in my arsenal. I asked you to
>help me build a beastmaster/survival hunter, and all you do is telling
>me that it won't work.

Actually, I supplied you with a 31 point beast build in my first post.

>Why not help me maximize that kind of gameplay, even if it turns out
>less powerful than a marxman?

It would be negligent not to point out that you are playing extremely
sub-optimally. I'd do the same thing if you wanted to play a ranged-only
warrior, or a warlock with no pet.

>>>Beside, can you also buff the
>>>pet with scrolls, maybe with some other items as well?
>>
>>
>> Yes, but rarely worth it. The only thing I usually bother putting on the
>> pet is the Admiral's Hat, but only because that thing is buggy. I'm
>> actually pretty shocked that the devs haven't fixed it, seing as how the
>> bug is beneficial to the players.
>>
>Tell me more about the Admiral's Hat, please.

It's a tailoring item which grants +15 stamina as a 15 minute buff (with a
15 minute cooldown on the hat). Must be worn to cast the buff. The hat
works 2 ways:

1) Cast it on yourself. If you then remove the hat, the buff goes away.
This is IMO, how the hat is supposed to work in all circumstances.

2) Cast it on someone else (including pet), then put on your normal
headgear. Buff remains.


>>>>On a PvP server you might want Track Humanoids on 24/7.
>>>
>>>What about track hidden?
>>
>>
>> Useless. Completely and totally. By the time Track Hidden will show things
>> to you, they are close enough for you to just flat-out see anyway, which
>> means they aren't hidden, which means Track Hidden won't pick them up.
>>
>> I've tested this ability in places with large numbers of known hiders (the
>> piggies down in the southern barrens, panthers in stranglethorn, etc), and
>> track hidden quite simply never picked anything up, ever.
>>
>
>How is it supposed to work?

Hidden stuff shows up on radar at an expanded range over what you can see.

> I thought it increased the detection range.

Yes well, unless what you think it does is nothing, then you are wrong,
because nothing is what it does.

>My intent is to lay an immolation, freezing trap or flare right when I
>hear the "swoosh sound" to take the rogue by surprise,

I'm not sure what the "swoosh sound" is, as I never, ever PvP (and audio in
WoW bugs my computer horribly, so I have all sounds permenantly disabled),
but I guess rogues make a noise when they de-cloak? Flare by itself would
be fine for that...and traps would be impossible, since the decloaking
would be followed by combat which would grey out all trap buttons.

> and thought track
>hidden could allow me to do it sooner. I thought it could be my
>anti-rogue tool...?

Unless it gets fixed, it won't be.

>As for hidden mobs, well you more or less see them already from far away
>without it.

You could? Pretty rare to see hidden stuff from much beyond melee range in
my experience. Stuff would occasionally flicker into existance beyond that,
but nothing like something that wasn't stealthed.
 
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:56:15 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>>My intent is to lay an immolation, freezing trap or flare right when I
>>hear the "swoosh sound" to take the rogue by surprise,
>
>I'm not sure what the "swoosh sound" is, as I never, ever PvP (and audio in
>WoW bugs my computer horribly, so I have all sounds permenantly disabled),
>but I guess rogues make a noise when they de-cloak?

When they become detected (goes from invisible to transparent), they
make the "swoosh" sound. They are still in stealth though, and can
still perform ambush-moves - on the other hand, you can target them
and any attacks on them will pull them out of stealth and make them
visible for all.

>Flare by itself would
>be fine for that...

Flare, I believe, pulls them all the way out of stealth - dunno if it
puts you in combat?

>and traps would be impossible, since the decloaking
>would be followed by combat which would grey out all trap buttons.

No, they are not decloaked, just detected - of course, you may need
some very fast reflexes to be able to to put that trap down before
they plant a dagger in your back and puts you in combat...

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:14:23 +0200, Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.dk>
scribed into the ether:

>On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:56:15 GMT, Matt Frisch
><matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>

>>Flare by itself would
>>be fine for that...
>
>Flare, I believe, pulls them all the way out of stealth - dunno if it
>puts you in combat?

Yes, it makes stealth impossible inside its radius of effect for the 30
seconds or whatever that it remains operating. It is considered aggressive,
in that it will often trigger something to attack you, but it does not by
itself put you in combat.

>>and traps would be impossible, since the decloaking
>>would be followed by combat which would grey out all trap buttons.
>
>No, they are not decloaked, just detected - of course, you may need
>some very fast reflexes to be able to to put that trap down before
>they plant a dagger in your back and puts you in combat...

Well, keep your mouse hovering on your freeze trap hotkey then :)