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are color laser printers an option?

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Anonymous
August 9, 2005 9:40:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Are color laser printers an option for photo work? I'm looking for an
11x17 printer. I'm frankly not sure I can tell the fine detail
difference of quality between various inkjets and if I was selling
prints, I would probably have them printed for me on photo paper. The
advantage I see with laser is cheap toner compared to ink supply and
much much increased speed of printing and it would be very suitable for
B&W printing office stuff too.

This web site seems to cover all that but I can't really follow it to
any useful conclusions: http://www.laser-printer-reviews.org/
--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net
Triteleia Natives
http://www.triteleia.com
(415) 722-6037
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:14:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message
news:jsmdnZ2dnZ1eXQbSnZ2dnZ3QZN-dnZ2dRVn-0p2dnZ0@speakeasy.net...
> Are color laser printers an option for photo work? I'm looking for an
> 11x17 printer. I'm frankly not sure I can tell the fine detail difference
> of quality between various inkjets and if I was selling prints, I would
> probably have them printed for me on photo paper. The advantage I see with
> laser is cheap toner compared to ink supply and much much increased speed
> of printing and it would be very suitable for B&W printing office stuff
> too.
>
> This web site seems to cover all that but I can't really follow it to any
> useful conclusions: http://www.laser-printer-reviews.org/
> --
> Paul Furman

My opinion is that color lasers are more for graphics arts work than for
producing photo quality prints. You'll get a good looking page for a
brochure, but there's really no way to get anything that resembles a real
photograph to hang on the wall.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 4:10:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Furman wrote:

> Are color laser printers an option for photo work? I'm looking for an
> 11x17 printer. I'm frankly not sure I can tell the fine detail
> difference of quality between various inkjets and if I was selling
> prints, I would probably have them printed for me on photo paper. The
> advantage I see with laser is cheap toner compared to ink supply and
> much much increased speed of printing and it would be very suitable for
> B&W printing office stuff too.
>
> This web site seems to cover all that but I can't really follow it to
> any useful conclusions: http://www.laser-printer-reviews.org/

IMHO, laser printers aren't quite as good as inkjets. They can't
generate dots as fine as the inkjets. They also can't dither
enough to produce the subtle color range of an inkjet with a 6 color
ink cartridge.

Laser toner is (for all intents and purposes) just plastic powder that
gets spread onto to the paper and melted in place.. It generally has
a glossy look to it. As a result, when you look at a laser print at
an angle, you see glossy patches caused by the difference between
areas with more and less fused toner.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 5:13:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Furman wrote:
> Are color laser printers an option for photo work? I'm looking for an
> 11x17 printer. I'm frankly not sure I can tell the fine detail
> difference of quality between various inkjets and if I was selling
> prints, I would probably have them printed for me on photo paper. The
> advantage I see with laser is cheap toner compared to ink supply and
> much much increased speed of printing and it would be very suitable
> for B&W printing office stuff too.
>
> This web site seems to cover all that but I can't really follow it to
> any useful conclusions: http://www.laser-printer-reviews.org/

I just bought a color laser today. I will continue testing it tomorrow.
I was very pleased that it was as good as it is. However, I was not
expecting all that much. It is not as good quality print as the much less
expensive (original price) inkjet it is replacing, but it is good enough for
many uses. I will have a better idea after I have had more time with it.
It may be good enough for tabloid (11x17) size prints as they are not viewed
as close as most photographs.

Stop by somewhere that they sell them. Let them print out a sample
print (or many places have it set up so you can do it yourself) and see for
yourself. Keep in mind the subject choice and tweaking of the print will
make that one the best it can do, your mileage may vary. Larger prints
will not be less sharp than the test, assuming your original will hold up.

I try to follow up tomorrow.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 5:13:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
> I just bought a color laser today.

>
> I try to follow up tomorrow.


Thanks. What model is it? Price? I can't even tell paper size from the
hp site. That web site said you need the new 1200dpi (non-interpolated)
to get good photo results. A buddy got an hp a few years ago for only
$800 & he was happy but not really a discriminating photographer type
guy. So many confusing unhelpful web sites.



--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net
Triteleia Natives
http://www.triteleia.com
(415) 722-6037
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:20:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<Are color laser printers an option for photo work?>

Hi Paul,

The standard logic is that inkjets are better for photo work. Some of
the 8 and 9 inkjet cartridge printers get good marks for picture
quality.

I've been an Epson inkjet advocate for some time - but the competition
is pretty fierce.

I'm with a small group that is purchasing an H-P 1200D color laser
($219, but as low as $169 from the net). A review last month in PC
magazine listed the H-P 2600n ($400 street price) color laser pretty
highly - even with photos. I'll be very interested in seeing how photos
print out.

More recently - I've been printing up to 12"x 18" photos ($2.99) at
Costco (Bend, Oregon) on their Noritsu printer. I've done 20"x 30"
($14.98 delivered) prints at their website.

Right now - I'm looking at the Epson R1800 inkjet printer for home use.
Yields up to 13"x 19" photo prints. List price is $549 (I have to ration
my expenditures).

Best,

Conrad


--
Conrad
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:41:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Conrad" wrote...

> I'm with a small group that is purchasing an H-P 1200D color laser
> ($219, but as low as $169 from the net). A review last month in PC
> magazine listed the H-P 2600n ($400 street price) color laser pretty
> highly - even with photos. I'll be very interested in seeing how photos
> print out.

One word of caution that may or may not apply to this model printer is to
check what type of paper stock this model will process. The biggest worry
with laser printers is the fuser is very hot and possibly some photo paper
that isn't designed or approved for that model can damage it. Or, you might
be locked into a very narrow selection of paper stock that might not fit
your future needs. It's best to ask before taking the plunge. Good luck.




Rita
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 5:42:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <jsmdnZ2dnZ1eXQbSnZ2dnZ3QZN-dnZ2dRVn-0p2dnZ0@speakeasy.net>,
Paul Furman <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote:

> Are color laser printers an option for photo work? I'm looking for an
> 11x17 printer. I'm frankly not sure I can tell the fine detail
> difference of quality between various inkjets and if I was selling
> prints, I would probably have them printed for me on photo paper. The
> advantage I see with laser is cheap toner compared to ink supply and
> much much increased speed of printing and it would be very suitable for
> B&W printing office stuff too.

Paul-

I have the HP Color LaserJet 4600. It does a beautiful job with photos on
plain paper. It may be cheaper to print a page than with an inkjet
printer. I often print sets of full-page photos of club activities. I
bind them into a scrapbook using the comb binding system to show to club
memebers at the regular meeting.

They are still just nice pictures on plain paper. There is a glossy photo
paper for laser printers, even one that is glossy on both sides. However,
the resulting glossy prints are quite poor compared to those printed on a
good inkjet printer.

A laser printer capable of 11x17 is likely to be much more expensive than
a good inkjet printer capable of 13" wide paper. If you are doing
production work, Epson (and probably others) has inkjet printers capable
of even wider paper, and large-capacity ink cartridges.

Other things to consider are whether fading or water resistance would be
an issue. Some inkjets are better than others. Laser toners are water
resistant. I assume toners are fairly good at fade-resistance, but
haven't seen any test results.

One drawback of laser prints is that the toner may stick to plastic,
similar to the way Xerox copies can stick to a vinyl notebook cover. When
you peel them apart, much of the toner stays stuck to the plastic!

Fred
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 9:29:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Furman wrote:
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>>
>> I just bought a color laser today.
>
>>
>> I try to follow up tomorrow.
>
>
> Thanks. What model is it?

Konica Minolta magicolor 2400W

> Price? I paid $299 after rebate at the register (not required to mail in)



> I can't even tell paper size from the
> hp site. That web site said you need the new 1200dpi
> (non-interpolated) to get good photo results.

This one has 600x600; 1200x600 and 2400x600 options.

> A buddy got an hp a few
> years ago for only $800 & he was happy but not really a
> discriminating photographer type guy. So many confusing unhelpful web
> sites.

They have improved from only a few years ago and yet they are still not
the thing for a discriminating photographer to use for his best work.

This one is great for quick stuff and contact sheets, and it looks like
it is going to be good enough for some presentation stuff.

The use of laser gloss paper helps a little. The final surface is more
even and the colors appears more intense (blacker blacks).

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 9:30:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
> "Conrad" wrote...
>
>> I'm with a small group that is purchasing an H-P 1200D color laser
>> ($219, but as low as $169 from the net). A review last month in PC
>> magazine listed the H-P 2600n ($400 street price) color laser pretty
>> highly - even with photos. I'll be very interested in seeing how
>> photos print out.
>
> One word of caution that may or may not apply to this model printer
> is to check what type of paper stock this model will process. The
> biggest worry with laser printers is the fuser is very hot and
> possibly some photo paper that isn't designed or approved for that
> model can damage it. Or, you might be locked into a very narrow
> selection of paper stock that might not fit your future needs. It's
> best to ask before taking the plunge. Good luck.


Yes, you must use materials that are laser safe. Lasers get very hot
and many of the gloss inkjet stuff would melt in them and cause some real
problems.


>
>
>
>
> Rita

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 12:36:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have a HP 3550 color laser and it prints unbelieveable color prints from
my Digital Rebel. It's very hard to tell the difference in prints compared
to the inkjet 7550 I have. I use the hp glossy laser paper and since these
printers use the organic "grown" toner (round dot dust instead of
crunched/ground toner) that means the toner blends better and with the
variable heating system on the fuser that means it isn't as hot or power
hungry as the old model lasers. These are "smart" laser printing devices.
You still need Laser paper as the multi layer paper of ink jets isn't
compatable. Just remember. All paper is not created equal. That's
important for printing photos whether it's on a laser or inkjet.

l8tr
Steve m...


>
>> I'm with a small group that is purchasing an H-P 1200D color laser
>> ($219, but as low as $169 from the net). A review last month in PC
>> magazine listed the H-P 2600n ($400 street price) color laser pretty
>> highly - even with photos. I'll be very interested in seeing how photos
>> print out.
>
> One word of caution that may or may not apply to this model printer is to
> check what type of paper stock this model will process. The biggest worry
> with laser printers is the fuser is very hot and possibly some photo paper
> that isn't designed or approved for that model can damage it. Or, you
> might
> be locked into a very narrow selection of paper stock that might not fit
> your future needs. It's best to ask before taking the plunge. Good luck.
>
>
>
>
> Rita
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 3:47:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Steve,

On 2005-08-10, Steve m... <Stevem5215@PLEASEno_spam_.com> wrote:
> I have a HP 3550 color laser and it prints unbelieveable color prints from
> my Digital Rebel. It's very hard to tell the difference in prints compared
> to the inkjet 7550 I have.

Would it be possible for you to post a scan of the same photo from each
device? I checked out laster printers from Borther, HP, Oki, Xerox and
probably others, and none got even close to the quality I get from an
Epson 2200.


/Allan
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:39:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Conrad <Conrad.1tjsvm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway> wrote:

>
>I'm with a small group that is purchasing an H-P 1200D color laser
>($219, but as low as $169 from the net). A review last month in PC
>magazine listed the H-P 2600n ($400 street price) color laser pretty
>highly - even with photos. I'll be very interested in seeing how photos
>print out.

I bought a 2600 recently and was very pleased with almost everything
about it. Unfortunately I had to return it. One thing they do not
show you on any of the demos or pictures of it is that it does not
come with an internal paper tray. To use the thing you have to open
up the front and have a tray and paper sticking out almost a foot from
the middle of the unit.

I had a place where it fit perfectly until you opened that stupid
tray. With it open it stuck out way too far. Also had cats that were
eyeing it as a perfect launching ramp for whatever cats do. I don't
think it would have lasted a week. Unfortunately adding the internal
tray adds about $300 to the cost of the unit.

I'm also still marvelling that buying a complete set of toner
cartridges and fuser unit costs about half again what the printer
costs. Granted that's good for a lot of pages, but even so.....
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 12:56:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hi,

Sorry, I now find out the 1200D is an inkjet printer from H-P.

I'll stick with the Epson R1800 ($549 list).

Best,

Conrad
Camp Sherman, Oregon


--
Conrad
August 17, 2005 4:55:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <11fodg5smt85m61@news.supernews.com>,
scottp4.removethistoreply@mindspring.com says...
> Conrad <Conrad.1tjsvm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway> wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm with a small group that is purchasing an H-P 1200D color laser
> >($219, but as low as $169 from the net). A review last month in PC
> >magazine listed the H-P 2600n ($400 street price) color laser pretty
> >highly - even with photos. I'll be very interested in seeing how photos
> >print out.
>
> I bought a 2600 recently and was very pleased with almost everything
> about it. Unfortunately I had to return it. One thing they do not
> show you on any of the demos or pictures of it is that it does not
> come with an internal paper tray. To use the thing you have to open
> up the front and have a tray and paper sticking out almost a foot from
> the middle of the unit.
>
> I had a place where it fit perfectly until you opened that stupid
> tray. With it open it stuck out way too far. Also had cats that were
> eyeing it as a perfect launching ramp for whatever cats do. I don't
> think it would have lasted a week. Unfortunately adding the internal
> tray adds about $300 to the cost of the unit.
>
> I'm also still marvelling that buying a complete set of toner
> cartridges and fuser unit costs about half again what the printer
> costs. Granted that's good for a lot of pages, but even so.....
>
>

I don't understand the comment about the HP 2600n paper try. I have
this unit and the tray, included with the unit, fits flush with the
front of the printer. It protrudes less than 2 inches in the back to
accomodate legal paper, but that's it. I also don't understand the
statement "To use the thing you have to open up the front and have a
tray and paper sticking out almost a foot from the middle of the unit."
There's no reason to open the front of the unit. In fact, I don't think
the printer will operate with the front door open. Maybe the OP and I
are talking about different printers???

Anyway, I've had the 2600n for not quite a week and have tried several
printing experiments including photos. The bottom line is, as someone
pointed out earlier in this thread, paper makes all the difference.
Xerox Digital Color Xpressions+ (or similar) seems to be the best
overall paper for text/graphics. Photos are not a strong point for this
printer, even on HP's glossy laser paper, which to my taste is too
lightweight. It's glossy enough and renders a photo better than heavier
shiny paper like the Xerox DCX+, but it does not match a good inkjet
photo printer on glossy paper (for example, I tried the Canon i9100).
However, all that said, I think the 2600n is really great for the price.

Dave
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 8:43:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Dave <ds@es.org> wrote:

>I don't understand the comment about the HP 2600n paper try. I have
>this unit and the tray, included with the unit, fits flush with the
>front of the printer. It protrudes less than 2 inches in the back to
>accomodate legal paper, but that's it. I also don't understand the
>statement "To use the thing you have to open up the front and have a
>tray and paper sticking out almost a foot from the middle of the unit."
>There's no reason to open the front of the unit. In fact, I don't think
>the printer will operate with the front door open. Maybe the OP and I
>are talking about different printers???

We are. I mixed up the model numbers. I had the 2550n, not the 2600.
As you say, that model has an internal paper tray.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 12:27:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have different viewpoint from photo paper to evaluate photographic
laser printing. Basically, the color calibration of laser printer is
based on common paper (80~100 gsm). If increasing photo paper thickness
(for example, the paper of photographic development system is over 180
gsm), the color saturation will be reduced. How to avoid loss color
saturation when increasing paper thickness?
Printing speed:
Slow down printing speed can take more time for toner transfer and
increasing color saturation. In the market, there are many different
types of different printing speed such as 4~5 ppm (pages per minute),
16 ppm and over 20 ppm. Fortunately, printing speed is possible to be
controlled by selection icon of paper material. Recommended speed
(paper material) is 106~163 gsm!
Thermal stress:
Many people recommend glossy photo paper or premium paper for laser
photographic printing. Be careful! The heating temperature of fuser may
rise up to 200 degree C during printing. The potential risk of thermal
stress is possible to melt-down the coating material of paper surface
or crack happening. Particular, printing is operating at low speed.
Thickness again! The thickness of those products is over 80~100 gsm.
Paper polarity:
Another methodology is how to change physical characteristic of paper
surface to improve toner transfer. Fortunately, toner is negative
polarity of almost laser printers, it is possible to spray electrical
positive charges on the paper surface and conduct more toner to paper
surface to increase toner density and color saturation as well.
Resolution:
Due to toner is dry powder in natural, the paper has no connection with
resolution. The image resolution is decided by printer engine and
printing language. 600 x 600 dpi can offer remarkable picture image
quality. 1200 x 1200 and 2400 x 2400 dpi will increase more grades of
gray level and improve better cubic effect.
Glossy:
Keep in mind! Toner is dry powder. Whatever your paper is high glossy
or brightness, the surface of photo paper is covered by toner after
printing. If it can present glossy, that means the toner density is not
enough and the color of printing quality is very light. Actually, toner
embraces wax inside and it can offer brightness after printer.
Moisture:
Moisture tends to make pulp fibre expansion, raising paper thickness
and uneven roughness. Coating skill perhaps is one of solutions to
isolate moisture in air. Apply synthetic paper to replace pulp paper is
a good alternative to resist moisture completely.
Testing:
We invested over four years to study how to avoid loss color saturation
when increase paper thickness and overcome high temperature heating
problem. The testing had done with HP CLJ 2500/2550/3700/5500, EPSON
Aculaser 900/1100/1900/3000/4000, Konica Minolta magicolor 23xx and
Xerox DC12.

You may use key word "laser printing photo paper" to find more
information on Google and Yahoo as follows:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_prop=web&x=op&ei=UT...

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Go...
!