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Grainy Blu Ray Play Back On LCD Monitor and TV

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May 13, 2012 10:18:11 PM

Hello Everyone:

I have read hundreds of post with similar issues but no complete answer.
So , I will ask specifically for my situation.
New system - built to play Blu Ray BD-ROM discs as HTPC.
My image quality on my 1600X900 HP Monitor is grainy as well as on my HDCP compliant plasma and LCD TV's.
When I say grainy I do mean that you can see grain structure not pixelation - and the grainy image could also be described as a raster on a much finer scale. The graininess is not consistent in appearance in that it is more apparent in darker areas and less obvious in lighter areas. Motion appears to have no impact on the grainy image.
I have tried all of the setting in ATI Catalyst Control Center and in the play back software - nothing helps but some settings make it worse.
I have disabled hardware acceleration - no improvement.
I have moved the mosquito noise and various other controls in Catalyst control center - no help some settings make things worse.
I returned previous Samsung Blu Ray player and exchanged for this - the current LG Player.
Edit - Have tried 2 different High Speed HDMI cables - no difference. One cable is about 1 m and the other is about 2m length.

Here is the data for my setup -

PC to LCD monitor is DVI.
PC to 46"Plasma or 52"LCD TV HDMI - Both HDCP Compliant.

PC Specs -
Win 7 Pro
AMD FX-8150
Radeon HD6850
8 GB 1666 Corsair mem
Asus M5A97 MB
OCZ Vertex 3 MI SSD
LG Blu Ray Player Model UH12LS29
Fresh install of Win 7 with All updates including fresh install ATI Catalyst , codecs and related software
Using PowerDVD10 and WIN DVD 11

So , I have no clue as to why my playback of any Blu Ray disc I choose is grainy.
Any help would be much appreciated. I give up...
Thanks
May 13, 2012 10:28:46 PM

I had the same 'issue' when playing the Lord of the Rings Extended Edition on blu-ray, I would notice the granular structure in the scene. What movies are you trying?
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May 13, 2012 10:37:57 PM

firefyte said:
I had the same 'issue' when playing the Lord of the Rings Extended Edition on blu-ray, I would notice the granular structure in the scene. What movies are you trying?


I have tried Spider Man 3, Star Trek 2009 , We Bought A Zoo - stuff like that.
I did play my Lord of the Rings DVD and it was grainy and lower res - looking as well - even noticed that the quality of the Lord of the rings dvd was much lower than what it looks like on a cheap $20.00 DVD player.
Couldn't believe a $20.00 DVD player would outshine my brand new HTPC.... What a rip
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May 13, 2012 11:10:09 PM

I actually think this is a problem that comes from the fact that the movies that you mentioned were filmed onto real film. In some scenes I see it, in others, I don't.

I think this youtube video might be useful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ3CArAmOeA
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May 13, 2012 11:47:58 PM

Maybe try and check whether your TV and monitor is displaying with "movie" option, normally this is selected in your menu. (assuming that you haven't already) I noticed on both my Television with blu ray and my lcd monitor with blu ray had that same "graininess" you are referring to. I found in my circumstance that when the movie option is selected, the TV/monitor will apply a smoothing filter over the top of the image to remove the graininess. Kind of like it is applying AA.
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May 13, 2012 11:51:09 PM

firefyte said:
I actually think this is a problem that comes from the fact that the movies that you mentioned were filmed onto real film. In some scenes I see it, in others, I don't.

I think this youtube video might be useful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ3CArAmOeA


Yes, thanks for your reply.
I can see that but, ,, I see it all through the Blu Ray movie. What is more interesting I think is that a Cheap
Play Station produces an excellent picture compared to my very expensive Home Theater PC.
I worked for a camera Co. while in school and then did my own specialized product photography and have some decent knowledge of film grain and granularity.
The average resolution back then on B&W film at 35mm (36*24) was about 4000 X 4000 pixels/in^2 in today's terms.
So if you do the conversion then you get 864 mm^2 which is about 1.339 in^2 * 16,000,000 = 21,427,243 pixels /frame/sec..
1080P should = 2,073,600 pixels/frame/sec.
Also , ISO 100 color film equates to about 40 megapixels /frame /second.
Film is pretty high res.
There is reciprocity failure and dynamic range issues to contend with but overall the film is so far more
high resolution than the capability of the 1080p TV it must be some issue I am not familiar with that causes this issue
I might be off on my calculation for today's color film but the film resolution is so much higher than the 1080p resolution I wonder how you get a grain effect unless it is from compression algorithms.
But with a capacity of 50GB on BD-ROM you should be able to get very high resolution images.

I don't know , it is really annoying.
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May 14, 2012 12:00:10 AM

natemare said:
Maybe try and check whether your TV and monitor is displaying with "movie" option, normally this is selected in your menu. (assuming that you haven't already) I noticed on both my Television with blu ray and my lcd monitor with blu ray had that same "graininess" you are referring to. I found in my circumstance that when the movie option is selected, the TV/monitor will apply a smoothing filter over the top of the image to remove the graininess. Kind of like it is applying AA.


Thanks for the reply.
I have "Cinema" modes and it seems a bit darker but still grainy in this mode. I guess that would be the same as "Movie" mode.
Don't have a movie setting.
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May 14, 2012 12:03:48 AM

ckbeck said:
Yes, thanks for your reply.
I can see that but, ,, I see it all through the Blu Ray movie. What is more interesting I think is that a Cheap
Play Station produces an excellent picture compared to my very expensive Home Theater PC.


I went back and revisited Return of the King (LotR EE blu-ray) on my TV (LG 32LW4500) 32inch 1080p24, with a PS3, and I can see the definite grainyness at the time around 59.50 (almost 1h in). The grains in the background can be seen as Sam is looming over Gollum, but cannot be seen in Gollum (a digital object).

I originally used my PC, PowerDVD 10, a LG CHS10LS, radeon HD4870 and a Acer X243HQ (DVI) to watch this film only a week ago.
(edit: in 1080p, with 5.1 surround)
I'm going to play around with the settings with my TV and PS3 to see if there's a difference based on settings in the ps3 or the TV.

edit2: There was a bit of difference setting 'cinema' mode, making the picture just mostly darker. The grains were 'horribly' visible in sports mode. No setting on the ps3 made it go away, and there aren't many settings to play with.

I have a few other films to test with (including a fully digitized version of the Tintin animations), but I don't think the grains are going away from one film by testing another.
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May 14, 2012 1:34:56 AM

firefyte said:
I went back and revisited Return of the King (LotR EE blu-ray) on my TV (LG 32LW4500) 32inch 1080p24, with a PS3, and I can see the definite grainyness at the time around 59.50 (almost 1h in). The grains in the background can be seen as Sam is looming over Gollum, but cannot be seen in Gollum (a digital object).

I originally used my PC, PowerDVD 10, a LG CHS10LS, radeon HD4870 and a Acer X243HQ (DVI) to watch this film only a week ago.
(edit: in 1080p, with 5.1 surround)
I'm going to play around with the settings with my TV and PS3 to see if there's a difference based on settings in the ps3 or the TV.

edit2: There was a bit of difference setting 'cinema' mode, making the picture just mostly darker. The grains were 'horribly' visible in sports mode. No setting on the ps3 made it go away, and there aren't many settings to play with.

I have a few other films to test with (including a fully digitized version of the Tintin animations), but I don't think the grains are going away from one film by testing another.


This is interesting. I get really nice play back from ps3. I think I should look at the playback again - perhaps some sort of processing is happening
that causes the image to look less sharp and thus hides grain somewhat.
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May 14, 2012 2:09:22 AM

I've noticed it as well, I have a feeling all the blue-ray playback software is the same, (power dvd, win dvd, arcsoft,) seem to all do it, and it is VERY noticeable on LOtR series
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May 14, 2012 3:17:25 AM

madbiker said:
I've noticed it as well, I have a feeling all the blue-ray playback software is the same, (power dvd, win dvd, arcsoft,) seem to all do it, and it is VERY noticeable on LOtR series


Thanks for the reply-
Well that's bad news - I hoped it was something I missed in settings or prefs somewhere.
I have found I do get the same results approx. from the 3 you listed.
Surely there must be a fix....
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May 14, 2012 5:51:46 PM

I went back today and watched Casino Royale on blu-ray (on the TV), and yes, I can sometimes see graininess. Not always, and not even in the darkest parts. Sometimes I can see it because I pause and notice it. Most of the time I couldn't.
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May 14, 2012 7:25:35 PM

firefyte said:
I went back today and watched Casino Royale on blu-ray (on the TV), and yes, I can sometimes see graininess. Not always, and not even in the darkest parts. Sometimes I can see it because I pause and notice it. Most of the time I couldn't.


This was with your PS3?
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May 14, 2012 7:26:32 PM

ckbeck said:
This was with your PS3?

yeah, I can go back to a few scenes on my PC, if you want.
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a b U Graphics card
May 14, 2012 7:46:25 PM

Well I don't know if this helps or not however ( i just felt like jumping in :)  ) :

I know the PS3 has a 24FPS mode where if your TV supports 24fps it will kick in to watch blu rays in their natural mode.

It might be that the TV has such a high refresh rate - that it actually shows better/clearer pictures than the PS3 - making the grainyness appear even more so- even though the PS3 may look "better", the PC is actually technically better.

Does either of your HDTV's support 24FPS mode? What exact TVs do you have?

Let me know if i'm totally wrong...I could be.
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May 14, 2012 8:21:29 PM

Chainzsaw said:
Well I don't know if this helps or not however ( i just felt like jumping in :)  ) :

I know the PS3 has a 24FPS mode where if your TV supports 24fps it will kick in to watch blu rays in their natural mode.

It might be that the TV has such a high refresh rate - that it actually shows better/clearer pictures than the PS3 - making the grainyness appear even more so- even though the PS3 may look "better", the PC is actually technically better.

Does either of your HDTV's support 24FPS mode? What exact TVs do you have?

It's also possible to add 1080p24 formats to the display manager via the catalyst driver thing.

But I don't think this is much of a solution.
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a b U Graphics card
May 14, 2012 8:26:10 PM

firefyte said:
It's also possible to add 1080p24 formats to the display manager via the catalyst driver thing.

But I don't think this is much of a solution.


Well the OP has to try it out first to see if it's a solution or not.

BTW only try this out if your TV supports it...if not...you might damage your TV.

I'm guessing it might have to do something with interpolation - since blu rays 24fps and most HDTV's to 60FPS/Hz.
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May 14, 2012 8:33:03 PM

Chainzsaw said:
Well I don't know if this helps or not however ( i just felt like jumping in :)  ) :

I know the PS3 has a 24FPS mode where if your TV supports 24fps it will kick in to watch blu rays in their natural mode.

It might be that the TV has such a high refresh rate - that it actually shows better/clearer pictures than the PS3 - making the grainyness appear even more so- even though the PS3 may look "better", the PC is actually technically better.

Does either of your HDTV's support 24FPS mode? What exact TVs do you have?

Let me know if i'm totally wrong...I could be.


Thanks - I have a Panasonic 46" Plasma - about 15 months old and a Samsung 52" LCD about 4 years old -both HDCP compliant.
Regarding frame rates, on the Panasonic Plasma TV the ATI Catalyst control center indicates supported rates of 24, 30, 50 and 60 (assuming the later are refresh rates).
AMD tech support indicates that I should set Catalyst to 60 - I'm guessing that is Hertz.
I have tried - I believe it was 24p and don't recall much difference - though I had not
adjust de-noise and some of the other controls such as edge enhancement.
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a c 291 U Graphics card
May 14, 2012 8:35:18 PM

Could you post a picture of what's happening? It could be a faulty graphics card after all.

What about other files, non Blue ray, like youtube? How are they?

Did you try using other software than power dvd?
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May 14, 2012 8:56:36 PM

so the picture looks so good, it's making it look bad?

Irony.
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a b U Graphics card
May 14, 2012 9:04:16 PM

internetlad said:
so the picture looks so good, it's making it look bad?

Irony.


It's possible. Have you seen a VHS movie on a HDTV? Not pretty! :p 
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May 15, 2012 12:53:55 AM

Sunius said:
Could you post a picture of what's happening? It could be a faulty graphics card after all.

What about other files, non Blue ray, like youtube? How are they?

Did you try using other software than power dvd?


Hi:
I have tried PowerDVD and WinDVD - same result.
I tried a Youtube 4K film and got better results on my other system with a
HD 4650.
So, I tried a BD RIP from my copy of avatar that was highly compressed.
Played nicely on my TV with our Sony media player, played nicely on
my system with HD4650 and
played like garbage on the new system with the HD 6850 - see image below.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww306/wgilmoremesasw...
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May 15, 2012 12:55:27 AM

internetlad said:
so the picture looks so good, it's making it look bad?

Irony.


Irony - no, please see my last post. It is very perplexing.
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May 15, 2012 12:57:28 AM

Chainzsaw said:
It's possible. Have you seen a VHS movie on a HDTV? Not pretty! :p 


Yes , but I am playing Blu Ray... I'm apologize - I don't follow your logic .. Please see my post where I submitted an image from the
new system with the HD 6850.
Perhaps Catalyst is over processing...?
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a c 291 U Graphics card
May 15, 2012 4:05:04 AM

There's something wrong with drivers, that's for sure. Though I have no idea how to fix it ;/.
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May 15, 2012 5:11:32 AM

Sunius said:
There's something wrong with drivers, that's for sure. Though I have no idea how to fix it ;/.

Ok, what makes you say that ?
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a c 291 U Graphics card
May 15, 2012 5:15:22 AM

Well, you said non blue ray playback is good. The only thing where you seem to lose video quality is blue ray movies. That means it's not the card (or at least shouldn't be). You don't happen to have another card just to check?
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May 15, 2012 5:37:31 AM

Sunius said:
Well, you said non blue ray playback is good. The only thing where you seem to lose video quality is blue ray movies. That means it's not the card (or at least shouldn't be). You don't happen to have another card just to check?

No , I must have misspoken. I does not play DVD's well at all. I just played a few minutes of Lord of the rings II and get pixel blocks about 3/8" square and frame drop or lag don't know the best description..
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a c 291 U Graphics card
May 15, 2012 5:43:20 AM

So it's only from disc playback? Maybe the BD drive is faulty? What about content on your hard drive?
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May 15, 2012 5:52:11 AM

Sunius said:
So it's only from disc playback? Maybe the BD drive is faulty? What about content on your hard drive?

Well this would be the second BD-ROM that was bad - I just returned the Samsung I bought and got this LG a few days ago.
The pixelation I was referring to was without ATI processing turned on - with ATI processing on I'm back to graininess.
I tried content on the HD and got really bad results - In one of my previous posts their is screen shot as requested by another - you might look at tis.
This is a highly compressed rip of my avatar bd to an mkv file. This plays nicely on my old PC with the HD 4650 and on the sony media player via a mem stick on the plasma TV, but on the new system with the HD 6850 it is trash.
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a c 291 U Graphics card
May 15, 2012 7:15:01 AM

Do you mind trying your HD 4650 on your new PC?
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May 15, 2012 7:28:08 AM

ckbeck said:
Well this would be the second BD-ROM that was bad - I just returned the Samsung I bought and got this LG a few days ago.
The pixelation I was referring to was without ATI processing turned on - with ATI processing on I'm back to graininess.


You've probably looked at this article and applied the appropriate settings:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hqv-2-radeon-geforc...

The avatar shot you showed above is just full of compression artifacts.

You said you had avatar, does that also show graininess when played from the disc?
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May 15, 2012 9:15:00 AM

Sunius said:
Do you mind trying your HD 4650 on your new PC?

That is a good idea, think I can do that in the morning - Thanks.
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May 15, 2012 9:16:55 AM

firefyte said:
You've probably looked at this article and applied the appropriate settings:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hqv-2-radeon-geforc...

The avatar shot you showed above is just full of compression artifacts.

You said you had avatar, does that also show graininess when played from the disc?


Yes , the disc shows graininess. I had not seen the info in the link you provided - It looks good -.
I will have to read over it .
Thanks
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!