Stuttering in All Games, including Diablo 3 and League of Legends

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

Hi there.

I recently upgraded an old HP Pavillion that came with a 540GB hard drive (replaced), Q6600 Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz, and some Nvidia card I got rid of ages ago. 4GB of DDR2 ram as well.

Anyway, I've upgraded this 5 year old PC with a Corsair CX600 v2 PSU and a EVGA 550Ti, and I seem to still have stuttering in my games despite being able to play many games on maximum or near maximum. This stuttering issue happened before I upgraded my computer, and ended in my hard drive failing on me. That was a 3.5" drive. Now, I'm forced to use a 2.5" laptop hard drive that spins at 5400 RPMs I believe. It's a Toshiba.

Anyway, this computer is pretty bad, except the new parts. I hate the processor; I think it's a bottleneck at this point, but I can't buy a better 775 slot; that'd be a waste. I'm planning on upgrading the MoBo and Processor at some point in the future, but I'm unsure of if the stuttering is coming from another now-dying hard drive, or if it's caused by the gap in the level of performance from the components.

It feels like running a Ferrari engine in a Honda Civic frame.

Anyway, I'm terrible at understanding DiskCheckup, but here's the results of the SMART scan. It doesn't seem to be causing any errors. At least, I think it's not.

Anyway, my main question is: What's causing these stutters in my games?

[cpp]

*** DiskCheckup V3.1 Build: 1002 Report ***

SysInfo DLL Version: SysInfo v1.0 Build: 1025
Time of export: 21:50:01 11-May-2012

Device information:
Device ID: 0
Interface: RAID
Device Capacity: 305242 MB
Serial Number: 50D3C6U4T
Model Number: TOSHIBA MK3265GSX
Firmware Revision: GJ003M
Partitions:
C: 221754 MB

ATA information:

Disk geometry:
Cylinders: 38913
Tracks/Cylinder: 255
Sectors/Track: 63
Bytes/Sector: 512
Total disk sectors: 625142448
Logical sector size: 512
Physical sector size: 512
Media rotation rate: 5400 RPM
Buffer size: 8192 KB
ECC size: 0 Bytes

Standards compliance:
ATA8-ACS Supported: Yes
ATA/ATAPI-7 Supported: Yes
ATA/ATAPI-6 Supported: Yes
ATA/ATAPI-5 Supported: Yes
ATA/ATAPI-4 Supported: Yes
Serial/Parallel: Serial
SATA 3.0 Compilance: No
SATA 2.6 Compilance: Yes
SATA 2.5 Compilance: Yes
SATA II: Ext Compilance: Yes
SATA 1.0a Compilance: Yes
ATA8-AST Compilance: Yes
World Wide ID: 5000039283403C26

Feature support:
SMART supported: Yes
SMART enabled: Yes
SMART self-test supported: Yes
SMART error log supported: Yes
LBA supported: Yes
IORDY supported: Yes
CFast supported: No
DMA supported: Yes
Maximum Multiword DMA mode supported: 2
Multiword DMA selected: None
Maximum UltraDMA mode supported: 5
UltraDMA selected: 5
Maximum PIO mode supported: 4
SATA Compliance: Yes
NCQ priority information supported: No
Unload while NCQ commands are outstanding supported: Yes
Phy Event Counters supported: Yes
Receipt of power management requests supported: Yes
NCQ feature set supported: Yes
SATA Gen2 Signaling Speed (3.0Gb/s) supported: Yes
SATA Gen1 Signaling Speed (1.5Gb/s) supported: Yes
Software Settings Preservation: Supported, Enabled
In-order data delivery: Not supported
Initiating power management: Supported, Disabled
DMA Setup auto-activation: Supported, Enabled
Non-zero buffer offsets: Not supported
Trusted Computing supported: No
Host Protected Area (HPA) supported: Yes
Read look-ahead supported: Yes
Read look-ahead enabled: Yes
Write cache supported: Yes
Write cache enabled: Yes
Power management supported: Yes
Security mode supported: Yes
Security mode enabled: No
Device Configuration Overlay (DCO) supported: Yes
48bit Addressing supported: Yes
Auto Acoustic Managment (AAM) supported: No
Power-up in Standby (PUIS) supported: No
Advanced Power Management (APM) supported: Yes
Advanced Power Management (APM) enabled: Yes
Current APM level: Minimum power consumption without Standby
CompactFlash Association (CFA) supported: No
General Purpose Logging (GPL) supported: Yes
Streaming supported: No
Media card pass through supported: No
Extended power conditions supported: No
Extended status reporting supported: No
Write-read-verify supported: No
Free-fall control supported: No
TRIM command supported: No
SCT command transport supported: Yes
NV Cache enabled: No
NV Cache Power Management supported: No

SMART ATTRIBUTES:
ID Description Status Value Worst Threshold Raw Value TEC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Raw Read Error Rate OK 100 100 50 0 N.A.
2 Throughput Performance OK 100 100 50 0 N.A.
3 Spin Up Time OK 100 100 1 1160 N.A.
4 Start/Stop Count OK 100 100 0 2042 N.A.
5 Reallocated Sector Count OK 100 100 50 0 N.A.
7 Seek Error Rate OK 100 100 50 0 N.A.
8 Seek Time Performance OK 100 100 50 0 N.A.
9 Power On Time OK 83 83 0 6920 N.A.
10 Spin Retry Count OK 140 100 30 0 N.A.
12 Power Cycle Count OK 100 100 0 2026 N.A.
191 G-sense Error Rate OK 100 100 0 161 N.A.
192 Power off Retract Count OK 100 100 0 45 N.A.
193 Load Cycle Count OK 93 93 0 79278 N.A.
194 Temperature OK 100 100 0 34 C N.A.
196 Reallocation Event Count OK 100 100 0 0 N.A.
197 Current Pending Sector Count OK 100 100 0 0 N.A.
198 Uncorrectable Sector Count OK 100 100 0 0 N.A.
199 UltraDMA CRC Error Count OK 200 200 0 0 N.A.
220 Disk shift OK 100 100 0 68 N.A.
222 Loaded hours OK 88 88 0 5180 N.A.
223 Load/Unload retry count OK 100 100 0 0 N.A.
224 Load friction OK 100 100 0 0 N.A.
226 Load-in Time OK 100 100 0 342 N.A.
240 Head flying hours OK 100 100 1 0 N.A. [/cpp]

Rockdpm · May 15, 2012

Try lowering the game settings. a 550 ti is a weak video card.... Lower the settings to medium then try low and see

monsta · May 15, 2012

Can you overclock the processor?
At stock it clocked too low for todays standards.
This will elleviate dsome of the bottleneck you are having and give your 550ti more juice.
When in game alt cntrl del and check the usage of your cpu and ram, if any of them are hitting 100 percent, they are topping out , which causes stuttering in games.
It may have nothing to do with your hard drive.

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

It stutters just the same in lower settings.

It actually runs for a second at 60FPS on full settings, then skips like a record. Runs for another second, and will skip again. It's a strange phenomenon I've not really seen before.

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

Also, the MoBo is OEM, so Overclocking is not going to work.

monsta · May 15, 2012

Yeah I thought so.
Theres really not much you can do other than changing the cpu to a better Core2Quad if your motherboard allows it.
Adding more ram may help, but you are restricted with that motherboard

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

monsta :

Did I say Duo? I'm sorry, I meant Quad. It's a Quad Core Q6600 @ 2.4GHz, on the crappy OEM MoBo.

Is there an easier and more definitive way to make sure that the CPU is the bottleneck? I've heard people saying the CPU should be fine for any modern games with this video card, even on Max.

amdwilliam1985 · May 15, 2012

I'm running AMD x2 @ 2.5ghz with an AMD 5770 in Diablo 3 @ 1920x1080 and I don't feel any stuttering.
The only difference is that I got 6GBs of ram and a 7200rpm WD black.

I don't think your cpu is slow, at least not comparing to mine.
My best guess will be your video card driver, did you do a clean install?

monsta · May 15, 2012

The cpu needs to be clocked higher for todays standards, 2.4Ghz just doesnt cut it anymore.
What I meant is looking at changing the cpu if you wish to keep the system for longer , if your motherboard allows it , you can look at other core2quads that are clocked at 3ghz, it will make a difference and give your gpu more juice.
Alt Contrl Del whilst in game , have a look at your cpu usage, if its hitting 100 percent , it is topping out and causing the bottleneck and stuttering.
Try that out and let me know your result.
Good idea to do also do a clean install of your graphics drivers

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

I actually did a fresh installation of Windows 7, all the drivers installed. Network driver, sound driver, graphics driver, everything.

http://i.imgur.com/N7bcL.png

That's what it looked like for League of Legends, which doesn't stutter too bad, but it definitely doesn't run at a *stable* 60 FPS. It will stutter more rapidly, but still maintain "60 FPS" in game.

I'll post an update when I can get in Diablo 3, but for now, it seems like it's using a fair amount of CPU.

Diablo 3 is also not a big multi-threader from what I've heard.

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

I just ran Diablo 3 where it was stuttering.

Take a look at the CPU 3.

http://i.imgur.com/5ggUk.png

It's peaking out pretty high, and running other cores pretty high as well.

It almost looks like it's stuttering because it's swapping processes to other cores to compensate. There *has* to be something I can do to fix this. :/

I don't know.

What do you guys think? I really am not an expert; more of an amateur.

monsta · May 15, 2012

Yes your cpu is topping out unfortunately which will cause stuttering.
changing the cpu to a higher clocked Core2Quad may be the only choice you have if your motherboard allows it.

amdwilliam1985 · May 15, 2012

barnaclesgarona :

I'm sorry if you already answered this, but I'm going to ask again anyway.
What's the resolution that you're playing at? What are the detail level settings in diablo 3?
Have you try and lower resolution and/or detail level settings?

barnaclesgarona · May 15, 2012

amdwilliam1985 :

1680x1050, max, AA full, etc. In certain areas while standing still, it will sit at 60 FPS incredibly stable and smooth. Actually, it's been great for a while. It's definitely the CPU, and I've figured it out as such, unfortunately.

monsta · May 16, 2012

If you can buddy look for a higher clocked Core2duo to replace it. Look at the ones around the 3GB speed mark.

barnaclesgarona · May 16, 2012

monsta :

Why a duo and not a Quad?

monsta · May 16, 2012

Oops I meant Core2Quad , all these names get confusing....my bad.

The only option you have right now is to upgrade the cpu to a faster Core2Quad. I had the same problem not too long ago with my pc and I upgraded to a QX9650, it fixed my stuttering and the cpu never topped out.

Check the model of your motherboard and see what cpu's it supports , it may also need a bios update.
Go to ebay and see if you can find an affordable Q9650, sell your Q6600 to put some money towards it.
First check that your mobo can take the upgrade , if it allows you its the only way to fix your situation without having to go for a complete pc upgrade.

barnaclesgarona · May 16, 2012

monsta :

Some very excellent advice. Thank you so much.

I'm double-checking with the CPU board to see if there's anything I can do as a last ditch effort. I doubt there is, so I'm going to be taking your advice.

Thank you so much for your help and patience.

monsta · May 16, 2012

Not a problem mate , I just know how it feels to get that stutter when a cpu tops out. I really hope your motherboard supports it so you can grab a better cpu and enjoy your pc like you are supposed to.
If you have the model , I can help look into it for you.

photonboy · May 16, 2012

CPU bottleneck?
Not necessarily.

You can actually monitor it using Task Manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL).

1. open TM and leave it running (one graph per core, LOW update speed, under "VIEW")
2. open a game and play for a few minutes
3. close the game and look at TM-> "processes"

Analysis:
Most games can't use all cores, it depends on the game. However this does give you a good approximation of how stressed your CPU is. Even if the CPU hits 100% I'm not certain that it necessarily causes stutter; it should just reduce the frame rate over what a faster CPU could do.

Other:
Monitor the game with FRAPS with VSYNC OFF. Are you getting above 30FPS? Stutter should not exist.

There are several different types of stutter, and the CPU is rarely the cause. Since you mention it exists at the lowest settings it makes me doubt that it is the CPU.

Sudden Stutter:
As mentioned, when you drop below 60FPS you can get a sudden stutter. This is easily tested as it only happens with VSYNC enabled. If it doesn't exist with VSYNC disabled then there's your problem. The solution in this case is to:
a) reduce quality settings, or
b) run VSYNC off (screen tearing)
c) or FORCE Double VSYNC (i.e. 30FPS) in your drivers.

I use the tool RadeonPro which can force VSYNC at HALF, but I don't know about NVidia's tools.

monsta · May 16, 2012

He already did check the task manager as I already told him to check it and his cpu is topping out.

photonboy · May 16, 2012

monsta :

Oops.
Anyway, he doesn't actually have a single core hitting 100% so there shouldn't be a bottleneck there. How much of his CPU resources he has left is hard to tell because it depends on how well a game is multi-threaded.

He talks about hitting 60FPS, then getting stutter. This is a CLASSIC problem and the reason for which Adaptive VSYNC was created.

***Adaptive VSYNC is going to be included in NVidia drivers for previous gen cards. I forget how back. I'm pretty sure it may go as far back as the 8800GT series.

(again, if its a VSYNC issue this sudden stutter won't happen with VSYNC disabled.)

monsta · May 16, 2012

Hopefully the Adaptive Vsync helps.

His 3rd core was quite high tho.

barnaclesgarona · May 16, 2012

photonboy :

monsta :

I've just run Diablo 3 with Vsync off, and the same stuttering pattern is there. The frame rates are a little smoother in between the stuttering, but it still exists at about the same intensity.

The tearing is fairly bad however.

I've been doing further testing as well, and it doesn't seem as though the CPU is actually topping off. It's such a difficult thing to actually gauge. Either way, I know you guys know how frustrating an issue like this is. Hopefully we can resolve this in case someone else down the road has a similar issue.

Could this issue have anything to do with a BIOS being out of date? I'm very reluctant to try messing around with the OEM mobo's BIOS, especially since this is my only computer. If it would work, I'd be willing to try.

I wish I had a friend with another computer I could test the GPU in to absolutely rule out a faulty card.

If it makes any difference, there seems to be a kind of high pitched whining when the card comes under load. I'm not sure that it's the card, but I believe it is because it's only when the graphics are intense. It could very well be the PSU as well. I'll do some more extensive testing with it tomorrow.

What else could be causing stuttering this severe? This card can easily run any of my games at full without even getting hot, but it makes no difference what settings are used.

Oh, and I won't be buying an upgrade for the 775 board; it's cheaper to just replace the last 3 components with even an i3 and a new board and ram. I'm going to have to in the future anyway.

EDIT: Photonboy may very well be correct about the variable Vsync settings. I just did further testing in-game with Anti-Aliasing turned off but VS on, and the stuttering's frequency dropped off to much more tolerable levels. The stutters still exist, but they're more hiccups than severe stuttering, occuring once per minute. This leads me to believe it's fixable, and it's just based on VSync, and not the actual card's performance.

Usually, when you lower the resolution, your frames per second will skyrocket and you'll be able to run your settings much higher. Doing this made no noticable difference, and the stuttering persisted. Turning off Anti-Aliasing is questionably the biggest performance boost you can get on a low end Gaming card, and is probably why the stutters reduced in frequency.

The problem now, is to figure out if there's a problem with the card, or if there's a setting that can be set to cease the hiccups.

monsta · May 16, 2012

You may just keep having to reduce the settings till you get it to a playable level.

Stuttering in All Games, including Diablo 3 and League of Legends

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