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trying to isolate startup problems

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Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 16, 2005 9:37:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not loaded.
How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas. Once every
two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows faile to load
normally, and I get to choose between using the "last known good
configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with white text
etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt, but now that I
see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to know what to do to
keep them from being a problem.

Here are the offending lines:

Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 16, 2005 1:54:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

You're looking in the wrong place.

It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if the
hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
driver.

Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular order,
power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components either.

--
Walter Clayton
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org


"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last known
> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>
> Here are the offending lines:
>
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 16, 2005 10:00:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
experimented now for a month almost.

I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts using
msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it gets
into Windows.

I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.

Any other ideas?

Bruce
"Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You're looking in the wrong place.
>
> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if the
> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
> driver.
>
> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
> either.
>
> --
> Walter Clayton
> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last known
>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>
>> Here are the offending lines:
>>
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 1:34:05 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

To clarify what David said, the real error messages are what counts. You're
focusing on and reading too much into normal messages. Check eventvwr.msc.

Start here http://www.memtest86.com/ and let this puppy check do a heavy
test of your memory.


--
Walter Clayton
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.


"Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
> experimented now for a month almost.
>
> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
> using msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again,
> this happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after
> it gets into Windows.
>
> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> Bruce
> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>
>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>> the hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need
>> the driver.
>>
>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>> either.
>>
>> --
>> Walter Clayton
>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>> known good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen
>>> with white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>> ntbtlog.txt, but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what
>>> they are to know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>
>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 9:38:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Are you saying you think I have a hardware problem with my memory when you
want me to run this test?


"Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvpsAM.org> wrote in message
news:eIwvxIqKFHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> To clarify what David said, the real error messages are what counts.
> You're focusing on and reading too much into normal messages. Check
> eventvwr.msc.
>
> Start here http://www.memtest86.com/ and let this puppy check do a heavy
> test of your memory.
>
>
> --
> Walter Clayton
> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>
>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>> using msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again,
>> this happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after
>> it gets into Windows.
>>
>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>> Bruce
>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>> the hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need
>>> the driver.
>>>
>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>> either.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Clayton
>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>> known good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen
>>>> with white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>>> ntbtlog.txt, but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know
>>>> what they are to know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 4:47:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event Viewer should have the Stop error involved.

--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
> experimented now for a month almost.
>
> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts using
> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it gets
> into Windows.
>
> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> Bruce
> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>
>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if the
>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
>> driver.
>>
>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>> either.
>>
>> --
>> Walter Clayton
>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last known
>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>
>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 4:47:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Thanks David, I may have isolated the problem, by seeing the message that a
service called mrtrate service failed to start due to the following error:
The system cannot find the file specified. Then, I went out and did a search
for this condition; it was apparently related to Quicken 2004 Deluxe which
I've been running for some time. There was a fix to change a value in the
registry for it after backing it up which I did. Then, I rebooted and the
error did not reoccur.

What gets me is the erratic behavior of this error. If this is the real
culprit, then sometimes the system booted into windows fine the first time,
and other times, it stopped with the sorry message, and its various options
for continuing. I've been screwing with MSconfig options now probably for a
month, with still this intermittent situation.

I probably won't know for three or four days for sure if this was the fix or
not. I sure hope so after all this effort.

Thanks again,


Bruce


"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
news:o nyK9upKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event
Viewer should have the Stop error involved.

--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
> experimented now for a month almost.
>
> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
> using
> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it
> gets
> into Windows.
>
> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> Bruce
> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>
>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>> the
>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
>> driver.
>>
>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>> either.
>>
>> --
>> Walter Clayton
>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>> known
>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>
>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 6:16:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Just get the error message from event viewer if you have to post back. Windows will tell you what is erroring. Programs in MSConfig can't cause Stop errors, at least not directly, though they may use a function that triggers the stop error. Services can cause Stop errors.

For speed reasons windows can't catch the full details of every error, but it has modes it can switch to where it can (but it trades off speed).

From Help
We need error messages in full. If Write an event to the system log is on then look in Event Viewer (type it in help). Most people have it display the screen and write (you know a pen) down the message. See if they are all the same number and details.
If Write an event to the system log is on then look in Event Viewer (type it in help).

From Help

To specify what Windows does if the system stops unexpectedly.

You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected to a network, network policy settings might also prevent you from completing this procedure.

1.. Open System in Control Panel.
2.. On the Advanced tab, under Startup and Recovery, click Settings.
3.. Under System Failure, select the check boxes that correspond to the actions you want Windows to perform if a Stop error occurs:
a.. Write an event to the system log specifies that event information will be recorded in the system log.
b.. Send an administrative alert specifies that your system administrator will be notified.
c.. Automatically reboot specifies that Windows will automatically restart your computer.
4.. Under Write Debugging Information, choose the type of information you want Windows to record when the system stops unexpectedly:
a.. Small Memory Dump records the smallest amount of information that will help identify the problem. This option requires a paging file of at least 2 MB on the boot volume of your computer and specifies that Windows will create a new file each time the system stops unexpectedly. A history of these files is stored in the directory listed under Small Dump Directory.
b.. Kernel Memory Dump records only kernel memory, which speeds up the process of recording information in a log when the system stops unexpectedly. Depending on the amount of RAM in your computer, you must have 50 MB to 800 MB available for the paging file on the boot volume. The file is stored in the directory listed under Dump File.
c.. Complete Memory Dump records the entire contents of system memory when the system stops unexpectedly. If you choose this option you must have a paging file on the boot volume large enough to hold all of the physical RAM plus one megabyte (MB). The file is stored in the directory listed under Dump File.
Notes

a.. To open System, click Start, click Control Panel, and then double-click System.
b.. You must have at least a 2-MB paging file on the computer's boot volume if you select Write an event to the system log or Send an administrative alert.
c.. If you choose either Kernel Memory Dump or Complete Memory Dump and select the Overwrite any existing file check box, Windows always writes to the same file name. To save individual dump files, clear the Overwrite any existing file check box and change the file name after each Stop error.
d.. You can save some memory if you clear the Write an event to the system log and Send an administrative alert check boxes. The memory saved depends on the computer, but typically about 60 KB to 70 KB are required by these features.
e.. If you contact Microsoft Product Support Services about a Stop error, they might ask for the system-memory dump file generated by the Write Debugging Information option.
Related Topics


We want either the error message, AND if that doesn't have enough info, a minidump file. And if that doesn't have enough info we switch into a driver debugging mode, and then do the above again. Type verifier in Start Run and follow the wizard. This will do two things.

1. Be very strict with drivers and generate a stop error whenever a driver misbehaves.
2. Some drivers are written to be buggy and fast so they can win magazine benchmark competitions. If verifier is turned on they may become well behaved and slower. That is some drivers have two drivers in the file, one for magazines and users and one for MS testing - what happens depend on how the driver decides it's at an MS test lab (who only care about crashes) or on a magazine/user's machine.
--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:te7_d.39226$3z.9722@okepread03...
> Thanks David, I may have isolated the problem, by seeing the message that a
> service called mrtrate service failed to start due to the following error:
> The system cannot find the file specified. Then, I went out and did a search
> for this condition; it was apparently related to Quicken 2004 Deluxe which
> I've been running for some time. There was a fix to change a value in the
> registry for it after backing it up which I did. Then, I rebooted and the
> error did not reoccur.
>
> What gets me is the erratic behavior of this error. If this is the real
> culprit, then sometimes the system booted into windows fine the first time,
> and other times, it stopped with the sorry message, and its various options
> for continuing. I've been screwing with MSconfig options now probably for a
> month, with still this intermittent situation.
>
> I probably won't know for three or four days for sure if this was the fix or
> not. I sure hope so after all this effort.
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:o nyK9upKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event
> Viewer should have the Stop error involved.
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>
>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>> using
>> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
>> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it
>> gets
>> into Windows.
>>
>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>> Bruce
>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>> the
>>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
>>> driver.
>>>
>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>> either.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Clayton
>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>> known
>>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
>>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
>>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 6:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

David:

I did all that and it says something about a small memory dump, and the
location being :%SystemRoot%\Minidump. I didn't find such a file in the
search. But for now, I'm not doing anything else with that until I see if I
have fixed the problem already.

I did see one other consistent error that happens independently of the
bootup process. The server {F3A614DC-ABE0-11D2-A441-00C04F795683} did not
register with DCOM within the required timeout. I traced this on the to the
program "c:\programs\messenger\msmsgs.exe" on the above server by
1.. Using Regedit, navigate to the following registry value
HKCR\Clsid\clsid value\localserver32
The clsid value is the information displayed in the message.
2.. In the right pane, double-click Default. The Edit String dialog box is
displayed. Leave this dialog box open.
Ok, so what is wrong with windows messenger, because I don't even use that
and I don't see it listed in the processes and I don't have it start when
Windows starts. So why the heck does it have an error like that that is
separate from bootup if it shouldn't be on unless I open the program myself?

I don't think that pertains to the bootup problem I mentioned, but at least
while I'm learning I'd like to see why this error occured.

Thanks,


Bruce




"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
news:o 4BvdgqKFHA.3340@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Just get the error message from event viewer if you have to post back.
Windows will tell you what is erroring. Programs in MSConfig can't cause
Stop errors, at least not directly, though they may use a function that
triggers the stop error. Services can cause Stop errors.

For speed reasons windows can't catch the full details of every error, but
it has modes it can switch to where it can (but it trades off speed).

From Help
We need error messages in full. If Write an event to the system log is on
then look in Event Viewer (type it in help). Most people have it display the
screen and write (you know a pen) down the message. See if they are all the
same number and details.
If Write an event to the system log is on then look in Event Viewer (type it
in help).

From Help

To specify what Windows does if the system stops unexpectedly.

You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators
group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected to
a network, network policy settings might also prevent you from completing
this procedure.

1.. Open System in Control Panel.
2.. On the Advanced tab, under Startup and Recovery, click Settings.
3.. Under System Failure, select the check boxes that correspond to the
actions you want Windows to perform if a Stop error occurs:
a.. Write an event to the system log specifies that event information
will be recorded in the system log.
b.. Send an administrative alert specifies that your system
administrator will be notified.
c.. Automatically reboot specifies that Windows will automatically
restart your computer.
4.. Under Write Debugging Information, choose the type of information you
want Windows to record when the system stops unexpectedly:
a.. Small Memory Dump records the smallest amount of information that
will help identify the problem. This option requires a paging file of at
least 2 MB on the boot volume of your computer and specifies that Windows
will create a new file each time the system stops unexpectedly. A history of
these files is stored in the directory listed under Small Dump Directory.
b.. Kernel Memory Dump records only kernel memory, which speeds up the
process of recording information in a log when the system stops
unexpectedly. Depending on the amount of RAM in your computer, you must have
50 MB to 800 MB available for the paging file on the boot volume. The file
is stored in the directory listed under Dump File.
c.. Complete Memory Dump records the entire contents of system memory
when the system stops unexpectedly. If you choose this option you must have
a paging file on the boot volume large enough to hold all of the physical
RAM plus one megabyte (MB). The file is stored in the directory listed under
Dump File.
Notes

a.. To open System, click Start, click Control Panel, and then
double-click System.
b.. You must have at least a 2-MB paging file on the computer's boot
volume if you select Write an event to the system log or Send an
administrative alert.
c.. If you choose either Kernel Memory Dump or Complete Memory Dump and
select the Overwrite any existing file check box, Windows always writes to
the same file name. To save individual dump files, clear the Overwrite any
existing file check box and change the file name after each Stop error.
d.. You can save some memory if you clear the Write an event to the system
log and Send an administrative alert check boxes. The memory saved depends
on the computer, but typically about 60 KB to 70 KB are required by these
features.
e.. If you contact Microsoft Product Support Services about a Stop error,
they might ask for the system-memory dump file generated by the Write
Debugging Information option.
Related Topics


We want either the error message, AND if that doesn't have enough info, a
minidump file. And if that doesn't have enough info we switch into a driver
debugging mode, and then do the above again. Type verifier in Start Run and
follow the wizard. This will do two things.

1. Be very strict with drivers and generate a stop error whenever a driver
misbehaves.
2. Some drivers are written to be buggy and fast so they can win magazine
benchmark competitions. If verifier is turned on they may become well
behaved and slower. That is some drivers have two drivers in the file, one
for magazines and users and one for MS testing - what happens depend on how
the driver decides it's at an MS test lab (who only care about crashes) or
on a magazine/user's machine.
--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:te7_d.39226$3z.9722@okepread03...
> Thanks David, I may have isolated the problem, by seeing the message that
> a
> service called mrtrate service failed to start due to the following error:
> The system cannot find the file specified. Then, I went out and did a
> search
> for this condition; it was apparently related to Quicken 2004 Deluxe which
> I've been running for some time. There was a fix to change a value in the
> registry for it after backing it up which I did. Then, I rebooted and the
> error did not reoccur.
>
> What gets me is the erratic behavior of this error. If this is the real
> culprit, then sometimes the system booted into windows fine the first
> time,
> and other times, it stopped with the sorry message, and its various
> options
> for continuing. I've been screwing with MSconfig options now probably for
> a
> month, with still this intermittent situation.
>
> I probably won't know for three or four days for sure if this was the fix
> or
> not. I sure hope so after all this effort.
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:o nyK9upKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event
> Viewer should have the Stop error involved.
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>
>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>> using
>> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
>> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it
>> gets
>> into Windows.
>>
>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>> Bruce
>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>> the
>>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
>>> driver.
>>>
>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>> either.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Clayton
>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>> known
>>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
>>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
>>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 17, 2005 11:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Ran your memtest86 thing and that was just a waste of 2 hours. All that
"puppy" does is bark at my big dog (Sony Vaio). And it passed 9 times with
no errors. Finally I said enough is enough and pressed esc to end the
nonsense.

Bruce
"Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvpsAM.org> wrote in message
news:eIwvxIqKFHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> To clarify what David said, the real error messages are what counts.
> You're focusing on and reading too much into normal messages. Check
> eventvwr.msc.
>
> Start here http://www.memtest86.com/ and let this puppy check do a heavy
> test of your memory.
>
>
> --
> Walter Clayton
> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>
>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>> using msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again,
>> this happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after
>> it gets into Windows.
>>
>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>> Bruce
>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>> the hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need
>>> the driver.
>>>
>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>> either.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Clayton
>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>> known good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen
>>>> with white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>>> ntbtlog.txt, but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know
>>>> what they are to know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 18, 2005 2:49:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

In the absence of any intelligent response from you he is having a guess. It's a good enough enough guess.

--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:ETe_d.39241$3z.1938@okepread03...
> Are you saying you think I have a hardware problem with my memory when you
> want me to run this test?
>
>
> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvpsAM.org> wrote in message
> news:eIwvxIqKFHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> To clarify what David said, the real error messages are what counts.
>> You're focusing on and reading too much into normal messages. Check
>> eventvwr.msc.
>>
>> Start here http://www.memtest86.com/ and let this puppy check do a heavy
>> test of your memory.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Clayton
>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
>>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>>
>>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>>> using msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again,
>>> this happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after
>>> it gets into Windows.
>>>
>>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>>> the hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need
>>>> the driver.
>>>>
>>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter Clayton
>>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>>> known good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen
>>>>> with white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>>>> ntbtlog.txt, but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know
>>>>> what they are to know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>>
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 18, 2005 3:08:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Possibly because you don't use MS Messenger. Errors aren't errors.

%SystemRoot%\Minidump = c:\windows\minidump
--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:89f_d.39243$3z.8594@okepread03...
> David:
>
> I did all that and it says something about a small memory dump, and the
> location being :%SystemRoot%\Minidump. I didn't find such a file in the
> search. But for now, I'm not doing anything else with that until I see if I
> have fixed the problem already.
>
> I did see one other consistent error that happens independently of the
> bootup process. The server {F3A614DC-ABE0-11D2-A441-00C04F795683} did not
> register with DCOM within the required timeout. I traced this on the to the
> program "c:\programs\messenger\msmsgs.exe" on the above server by
> 1.. Using Regedit, navigate to the following registry value
> HKCR\Clsid\clsid value\localserver32
> The clsid value is the information displayed in the message.
> 2.. In the right pane, double-click Default. The Edit String dialog box is
> displayed. Leave this dialog box open.
> Ok, so what is wrong with windows messenger, because I don't even use that
> and I don't see it listed in the processes and I don't have it start when
> Windows starts. So why the heck does it have an error like that that is
> separate from bootup if it shouldn't be on unless I open the program myself?
>
> I don't think that pertains to the bootup problem I mentioned, but at least
> while I'm learning I'd like to see why this error occured.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:o 4BvdgqKFHA.3340@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Just get the error message from event viewer if you have to post back.
> Windows will tell you what is erroring. Programs in MSConfig can't cause
> Stop errors, at least not directly, though they may use a function that
> triggers the stop error. Services can cause Stop errors.
>
> For speed reasons windows can't catch the full details of every error, but
> it has modes it can switch to where it can (but it trades off speed).
>
> From Help
> We need error messages in full. If Write an event to the system log is on
> then look in Event Viewer (type it in help). Most people have it display the
> screen and write (you know a pen) down the message. See if they are all the
> same number and details.
> If Write an event to the system log is on then look in Event Viewer (type it
> in help).
>
> From Help
>
> To specify what Windows does if the system stops unexpectedly.
>
> You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators
> group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected to
> a network, network policy settings might also prevent you from completing
> this procedure.
>
> 1.. Open System in Control Panel.
> 2.. On the Advanced tab, under Startup and Recovery, click Settings.
> 3.. Under System Failure, select the check boxes that correspond to the
> actions you want Windows to perform if a Stop error occurs:
> a.. Write an event to the system log specifies that event information
> will be recorded in the system log.
> b.. Send an administrative alert specifies that your system
> administrator will be notified.
> c.. Automatically reboot specifies that Windows will automatically
> restart your computer.
> 4.. Under Write Debugging Information, choose the type of information you
> want Windows to record when the system stops unexpectedly:
> a.. Small Memory Dump records the smallest amount of information that
> will help identify the problem. This option requires a paging file of at
> least 2 MB on the boot volume of your computer and specifies that Windows
> will create a new file each time the system stops unexpectedly. A history of
> these files is stored in the directory listed under Small Dump Directory.
> b.. Kernel Memory Dump records only kernel memory, which speeds up the
> process of recording information in a log when the system stops
> unexpectedly. Depending on the amount of RAM in your computer, you must have
> 50 MB to 800 MB available for the paging file on the boot volume. The file
> is stored in the directory listed under Dump File.
> c.. Complete Memory Dump records the entire contents of system memory
> when the system stops unexpectedly. If you choose this option you must have
> a paging file on the boot volume large enough to hold all of the physical
> RAM plus one megabyte (MB). The file is stored in the directory listed under
> Dump File.
> Notes
>
> a.. To open System, click Start, click Control Panel, and then
> double-click System.
> b.. You must have at least a 2-MB paging file on the computer's boot
> volume if you select Write an event to the system log or Send an
> administrative alert.
> c.. If you choose either Kernel Memory Dump or Complete Memory Dump and
> select the Overwrite any existing file check box, Windows always writes to
> the same file name. To save individual dump files, clear the Overwrite any
> existing file check box and change the file name after each Stop error.
> d.. You can save some memory if you clear the Write an event to the system
> log and Send an administrative alert check boxes. The memory saved depends
> on the computer, but typically about 60 KB to 70 KB are required by these
> features.
> e.. If you contact Microsoft Product Support Services about a Stop error,
> they might ask for the system-memory dump file generated by the Write
> Debugging Information option.
> Related Topics
>
>
> We want either the error message, AND if that doesn't have enough info, a
> minidump file. And if that doesn't have enough info we switch into a driver
> debugging mode, and then do the above again. Type verifier in Start Run and
> follow the wizard. This will do two things.
>
> 1. Be very strict with drivers and generate a stop error whenever a driver
> misbehaves.
> 2. Some drivers are written to be buggy and fast so they can win magazine
> benchmark competitions. If verifier is turned on they may become well
> behaved and slower. That is some drivers have two drivers in the file, one
> for magazines and users and one for MS testing - what happens depend on how
> the driver decides it's at an MS test lab (who only care about crashes) or
> on a magazine/user's machine.
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:te7_d.39226$3z.9722@okepread03...
>> Thanks David, I may have isolated the problem, by seeing the message that
>> a
>> service called mrtrate service failed to start due to the following error:
>> The system cannot find the file specified. Then, I went out and did a
>> search
>> for this condition; it was apparently related to Quicken 2004 Deluxe which
>> I've been running for some time. There was a fix to change a value in the
>> registry for it after backing it up which I did. Then, I rebooted and the
>> error did not reoccur.
>>
>> What gets me is the erratic behavior of this error. If this is the real
>> culprit, then sometimes the system booted into windows fine the first
>> time,
>> and other times, it stopped with the sorry message, and its various
>> options
>> for continuing. I've been screwing with MSconfig options now probably for
>> a
>> month, with still this intermittent situation.
>>
>> I probably won't know for three or four days for sure if this was the fix
>> or
>> not. I sure hope so after all this effort.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>> news:o nyK9upKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event
>> Viewer should have the Stop error involved.
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just gives
>>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>>
>>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>>> using
>>> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
>>> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it
>>> gets
>>> into Windows.
>>>
>>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>>> the
>>>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need the
>>>> driver.
>>>>
>>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter Clayton
>>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem areas.
>>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying Windows
>>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>>> known
>>>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file ntbtlog.txt,
>>>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are to
>>>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>>
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 18, 2005 3:08:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

There is not file or folder anywhere with the name minidump so maybe that
file goes away if you have a successful bootup? I don't know.

Also, you're saying "Errors aren't errors". I thought that was what I was
looking for in Event Viewer?

Bruce
"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
news:uqdupJvKFHA.3640@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Possibly because you don't use MS Messenger. Errors aren't errors.

%SystemRoot%\Minidump = c:\windows\minidump
--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:89f_d.39243$3z.8594@okepread03...
> David:
>
> I did all that and it says something about a small memory dump, and the
> location being :%SystemRoot%\Minidump. I didn't find such a file in the
> search. But for now, I'm not doing anything else with that until I see if
> I
> have fixed the problem already.
>
> I did see one other consistent error that happens independently of the
> bootup process. The server {F3A614DC-ABE0-11D2-A441-00C04F795683} did not
> register with DCOM within the required timeout. I traced this on the to
> the
> program "c:\programs\messenger\msmsgs.exe" on the above server by
> 1.. Using Regedit, navigate to the following registry value
> HKCR\Clsid\clsid value\localserver32
> The clsid value is the information displayed in the message.
> 2.. In the right pane, double-click Default. The Edit String dialog box
> is
> displayed. Leave this dialog box open.
> Ok, so what is wrong with windows messenger, because I don't even use that
> and I don't see it listed in the processes and I don't have it start when
> Windows starts. So why the heck does it have an error like that that is
> separate from bootup if it shouldn't be on unless I open the program
> myself?
>
> I don't think that pertains to the bootup problem I mentioned, but at
> least
> while I'm learning I'd like to see why this error occured.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:o 4BvdgqKFHA.3340@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Just get the error message from event viewer if you have to post back.
> Windows will tell you what is erroring. Programs in MSConfig can't cause
> Stop errors, at least not directly, though they may use a function that
> triggers the stop error. Services can cause Stop errors.
>
> For speed reasons windows can't catch the full details of every error, but
> it has modes it can switch to where it can (but it trades off speed).
>
> From Help
> We need error messages in full. If Write an event to the system log is on
> then look in Event Viewer (type it in help). Most people have it display
> the
> screen and write (you know a pen) down the message. See if they are all
> the
> same number and details.
> If Write an event to the system log is on then look in Event Viewer (type
> it
> in help).
>
> From Help
>
> To specify what Windows does if the system stops unexpectedly.
>
> You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the
> Administrators
> group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected
> to
> a network, network policy settings might also prevent you from completing
> this procedure.
>
> 1.. Open System in Control Panel.
> 2.. On the Advanced tab, under Startup and Recovery, click Settings.
> 3.. Under System Failure, select the check boxes that correspond to the
> actions you want Windows to perform if a Stop error occurs:
> a.. Write an event to the system log specifies that event information
> will be recorded in the system log.
> b.. Send an administrative alert specifies that your system
> administrator will be notified.
> c.. Automatically reboot specifies that Windows will automatically
> restart your computer.
> 4.. Under Write Debugging Information, choose the type of information you
> want Windows to record when the system stops unexpectedly:
> a.. Small Memory Dump records the smallest amount of information that
> will help identify the problem. This option requires a paging file of at
> least 2 MB on the boot volume of your computer and specifies that Windows
> will create a new file each time the system stops unexpectedly. A history
> of
> these files is stored in the directory listed under Small Dump Directory.
> b.. Kernel Memory Dump records only kernel memory, which speeds up the
> process of recording information in a log when the system stops
> unexpectedly. Depending on the amount of RAM in your computer, you must
> have
> 50 MB to 800 MB available for the paging file on the boot volume. The file
> is stored in the directory listed under Dump File.
> c.. Complete Memory Dump records the entire contents of system memory
> when the system stops unexpectedly. If you choose this option you must
> have
> a paging file on the boot volume large enough to hold all of the physical
> RAM plus one megabyte (MB). The file is stored in the directory listed
> under
> Dump File.
> Notes
>
> a.. To open System, click Start, click Control Panel, and then
> double-click System.
> b.. You must have at least a 2-MB paging file on the computer's boot
> volume if you select Write an event to the system log or Send an
> administrative alert.
> c.. If you choose either Kernel Memory Dump or Complete Memory Dump and
> select the Overwrite any existing file check box, Windows always writes to
> the same file name. To save individual dump files, clear the Overwrite any
> existing file check box and change the file name after each Stop error.
> d.. You can save some memory if you clear the Write an event to the
> system
> log and Send an administrative alert check boxes. The memory saved depends
> on the computer, but typically about 60 KB to 70 KB are required by these
> features.
> e.. If you contact Microsoft Product Support Services about a Stop error,
> they might ask for the system-memory dump file generated by the Write
> Debugging Information option.
> Related Topics
>
>
> We want either the error message, AND if that doesn't have enough info, a
> minidump file. And if that doesn't have enough info we switch into a
> driver
> debugging mode, and then do the above again. Type verifier in Start Run
> and
> follow the wizard. This will do two things.
>
> 1. Be very strict with drivers and generate a stop error whenever a driver
> misbehaves.
> 2. Some drivers are written to be buggy and fast so they can win magazine
> benchmark competitions. If verifier is turned on they may become well
> behaved and slower. That is some drivers have two drivers in the file, one
> for magazines and users and one for MS testing - what happens depend on
> how
> the driver decides it's at an MS test lab (who only care about crashes) or
> on a magazine/user's machine.
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:te7_d.39226$3z.9722@okepread03...
>> Thanks David, I may have isolated the problem, by seeing the message that
>> a
>> service called mrtrate service failed to start due to the following
>> error:
>> The system cannot find the file specified. Then, I went out and did a
>> search
>> for this condition; it was apparently related to Quicken 2004 Deluxe
>> which
>> I've been running for some time. There was a fix to change a value in the
>> registry for it after backing it up which I did. Then, I rebooted and the
>> error did not reoccur.
>>
>> What gets me is the erratic behavior of this error. If this is the real
>> culprit, then sometimes the system booted into windows fine the first
>> time,
>> and other times, it stopped with the sorry message, and its various
>> options
>> for continuing. I've been screwing with MSconfig options now probably for
>> a
>> month, with still this intermittent situation.
>>
>> I probably won't know for three or four days for sure if this was the fix
>> or
>> not. I sure hope so after all this effort.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>> news:o nyK9upKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event
>> Viewer should have the Stop error involved.
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just
>>> gives
>>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>>
>>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>>> using
>>> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
>>> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it
>>> gets
>>> into Windows.
>>>
>>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>>> the
>>>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need
>>>> the
>>>> driver.
>>>>
>>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter Clayton
>>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem
>>>>> areas.
>>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>>> known
>>>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>>>> ntbtlog.txt,
>>>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are
>>>>> to
>>>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>>
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 18, 2005 4:02:21 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Ok, Errors aren't errors you should care about.

Type minidump in Start Run. If nothing set your options to create one.
--
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:w_f_d.39246$3z.17536@okepread03...
> There is not file or folder anywhere with the name minidump so maybe that
> file goes away if you have a successful bootup? I don't know.
>
> Also, you're saying "Errors aren't errors". I thought that was what I was
> looking for in Event Viewer?
>
> Bruce
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:uqdupJvKFHA.3640@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Possibly because you don't use MS Messenger. Errors aren't errors.
>
> %SystemRoot%\Minidump = c:\windows\minidump
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:89f_d.39243$3z.8594@okepread03...
>> David:
>>
>> I did all that and it says something about a small memory dump, and the
>> location being :%SystemRoot%\Minidump. I didn't find such a file in the
>> search. But for now, I'm not doing anything else with that until I see if
>> I
>> have fixed the problem already.
>>
>> I did see one other consistent error that happens independently of the
>> bootup process. The server {F3A614DC-ABE0-11D2-A441-00C04F795683} did not
>> register with DCOM within the required timeout. I traced this on the to
>> the
>> program "c:\programs\messenger\msmsgs.exe" on the above server by
>> 1.. Using Regedit, navigate to the following registry value
>> HKCR\Clsid\clsid value\localserver32
>> The clsid value is the information displayed in the message.
>> 2.. In the right pane, double-click Default. The Edit String dialog box
>> is
>> displayed. Leave this dialog box open.
>> Ok, so what is wrong with windows messenger, because I don't even use that
>> and I don't see it listed in the processes and I don't have it start when
>> Windows starts. So why the heck does it have an error like that that is
>> separate from bootup if it shouldn't be on unless I open the program
>> myself?
>>
>> I don't think that pertains to the bootup problem I mentioned, but at
>> least
>> while I'm learning I'd like to see why this error occured.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>> news:o 4BvdgqKFHA.3340@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Just get the error message from event viewer if you have to post back.
>> Windows will tell you what is erroring. Programs in MSConfig can't cause
>> Stop errors, at least not directly, though they may use a function that
>> triggers the stop error. Services can cause Stop errors.
>>
>> For speed reasons windows can't catch the full details of every error, but
>> it has modes it can switch to where it can (but it trades off speed).
>>
>> From Help
>> We need error messages in full. If Write an event to the system log is on
>> then look in Event Viewer (type it in help). Most people have it display
>> the
>> screen and write (you know a pen) down the message. See if they are all
>> the
>> same number and details.
>> If Write an event to the system log is on then look in Event Viewer (type
>> it
>> in help).
>>
>> From Help
>>
>> To specify what Windows does if the system stops unexpectedly.
>>
>> You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the
>> Administrators
>> group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected
>> to
>> a network, network policy settings might also prevent you from completing
>> this procedure.
>>
>> 1.. Open System in Control Panel.
>> 2.. On the Advanced tab, under Startup and Recovery, click Settings.
>> 3.. Under System Failure, select the check boxes that correspond to the
>> actions you want Windows to perform if a Stop error occurs:
>> a.. Write an event to the system log specifies that event information
>> will be recorded in the system log.
>> b.. Send an administrative alert specifies that your system
>> administrator will be notified.
>> c.. Automatically reboot specifies that Windows will automatically
>> restart your computer.
>> 4.. Under Write Debugging Information, choose the type of information you
>> want Windows to record when the system stops unexpectedly:
>> a.. Small Memory Dump records the smallest amount of information that
>> will help identify the problem. This option requires a paging file of at
>> least 2 MB on the boot volume of your computer and specifies that Windows
>> will create a new file each time the system stops unexpectedly. A history
>> of
>> these files is stored in the directory listed under Small Dump Directory.
>> b.. Kernel Memory Dump records only kernel memory, which speeds up the
>> process of recording information in a log when the system stops
>> unexpectedly. Depending on the amount of RAM in your computer, you must
>> have
>> 50 MB to 800 MB available for the paging file on the boot volume. The file
>> is stored in the directory listed under Dump File.
>> c.. Complete Memory Dump records the entire contents of system memory
>> when the system stops unexpectedly. If you choose this option you must
>> have
>> a paging file on the boot volume large enough to hold all of the physical
>> RAM plus one megabyte (MB). The file is stored in the directory listed
>> under
>> Dump File.
>> Notes
>>
>> a.. To open System, click Start, click Control Panel, and then
>> double-click System.
>> b.. You must have at least a 2-MB paging file on the computer's boot
>> volume if you select Write an event to the system log or Send an
>> administrative alert.
>> c.. If you choose either Kernel Memory Dump or Complete Memory Dump and
>> select the Overwrite any existing file check box, Windows always writes to
>> the same file name. To save individual dump files, clear the Overwrite any
>> existing file check box and change the file name after each Stop error.
>> d.. You can save some memory if you clear the Write an event to the
>> system
>> log and Send an administrative alert check boxes. The memory saved depends
>> on the computer, but typically about 60 KB to 70 KB are required by these
>> features.
>> e.. If you contact Microsoft Product Support Services about a Stop error,
>> they might ask for the system-memory dump file generated by the Write
>> Debugging Information option.
>> Related Topics
>>
>>
>> We want either the error message, AND if that doesn't have enough info, a
>> minidump file. And if that doesn't have enough info we switch into a
>> driver
>> debugging mode, and then do the above again. Type verifier in Start Run
>> and
>> follow the wizard. This will do two things.
>>
>> 1. Be very strict with drivers and generate a stop error whenever a driver
>> misbehaves.
>> 2. Some drivers are written to be buggy and fast so they can win magazine
>> benchmark competitions. If verifier is turned on they may become well
>> behaved and slower. That is some drivers have two drivers in the file, one
>> for magazines and users and one for MS testing - what happens depend on
>> how
>> the driver decides it's at an MS test lab (who only care about crashes) or
>> on a magazine/user's machine.
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>> news:te7_d.39226$3z.9722@okepread03...
>>> Thanks David, I may have isolated the problem, by seeing the message that
>>> a
>>> service called mrtrate service failed to start due to the following
>>> error:
>>> The system cannot find the file specified. Then, I went out and did a
>>> search
>>> for this condition; it was apparently related to Quicken 2004 Deluxe
>>> which
>>> I've been running for some time. There was a fix to change a value in the
>>> registry for it after backing it up which I did. Then, I rebooted and the
>>> error did not reoccur.
>>>
>>> What gets me is the erratic behavior of this error. If this is the real
>>> culprit, then sometimes the system booted into windows fine the first
>>> time,
>>> and other times, it stopped with the sorry message, and its various
>>> options
>>> for continuing. I've been screwing with MSconfig options now probably for
>>> a
>>> month, with still this intermittent situation.
>>>
>>> I probably won't know for three or four days for sure if this was the fix
>>> or
>>> not. I sure hope so after all this effort.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>>> news:o nyK9upKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> The error messages. Nothing else matters but the error messages. Event
>>> Viewer should have the Stop error involved.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>>>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just
>>>> gives
>>>> that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I have
>>>> experimented now for a month almost.
>>>>
>>>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>>>> using
>>>> msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts. Again, this
>>>> happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves fine after it
>>>> gets
>>>> into Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Any other ideas?
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>>>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>>>> the
>>>>> hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't need
>>>>> the
>>>>> driver.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Walter Clayton
>>>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem
>>>>>> areas.
>>>>>> Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying
>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>> faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the "last
>>>>>> known
>>>>>> good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black screen with
>>>>>> white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>>>>> ntbtlog.txt,
>>>>>> but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know what they are
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 18, 2005 4:43:43 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Now, run HD diagnostics.

As David said, there's a dearth of information and it's guessing time. You
do keep focusing on normal, ordinary events that are totally harmless.

I can think of a slew of reasons why you're having the problems you are and
they traverse everything from hardware to software to firmware to
application intermix, to thermal issues, to power fluctuations

There's also a $10-$15US device that you can plug into the power supply to
check it out. I carry one with me on site. However you don't have one. And I
did have a client call me in with similar symptoms and his power supply did
fail a simple, quick test using said device.

--
Walter Clayton
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.


"Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:hJq_d.39852$3z.7435@okepread03...
> Ran your memtest86 thing and that was just a waste of 2 hours. All that
> "puppy" does is bark at my big dog (Sony Vaio). And it passed 9 times with
> no errors. Finally I said enough is enough and pressed esc to end the
> nonsense.
>
> Bruce
> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvpsAM.org> wrote in message
> news:eIwvxIqKFHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> To clarify what David said, the real error messages are what counts.
>> You're focusing on and reading too much into normal messages. Check
>> eventvwr.msc.
>>
>> Start here http://www.memtest86.com/ and let this puppy check do a heavy
>> test of your memory.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Clayton
>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just
>>> gives that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I
>>> have experimented now for a month almost.
>>>
>>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>>> using msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts.
>>> Again, this happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves
>>> fine after it gets into Windows.
>>>
>>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>>> the hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't
>>>> need the driver.
>>>>
>>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other components
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter Clayton
>>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem
>>>>> areas. Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup saying
>>>>> Windows faile to load normally, and I get to choose between using the
>>>>> "last known good configuration" or a normal windows load. Its a black
>>>>> screen with white text etc. I figured out how to find the bootlog file
>>>>> ntbtlog.txt, but now that I see the offending drivers, I don't know
>>>>> what they are to know what to do to keep them from being a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>>
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 27, 2005 10:11:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

What do you think this idea that just popped into my mind?

If its a power problem, do you think the surge protector power outlet I use
could be messed up, and cause problems booting up due to not enough juice
flowing through it. And then once its up its fine. I know HP told me to take
the printer out of the surge protector that it needed a dedicated source.

I'm still having the reboot after the initial windows logo comes on but it
before it goes to a signon screen, then it beeps as if restarting, and goes
to this screen I've told about that is like you turn off a machine before it
shuts down. It offers to start windows normally, and once you select that,
it does start normally.


"Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvpsAM.org> wrote in message
news:%23XHRYX4KFHA.2132@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Now, run HD diagnostics.
>
> As David said, there's a dearth of information and it's guessing time. You
> do keep focusing on normal, ordinary events that are totally harmless.
>
> I can think of a slew of reasons why you're having the problems you are
> and they traverse everything from hardware to software to firmware to
> application intermix, to thermal issues, to power fluctuations
>
> There's also a $10-$15US device that you can plug into the power supply to
> check it out. I carry one with me on site. However you don't have one. And
> I did have a client call me in with similar symptoms and his power supply
> did fail a simple, quick test using said device.
>
> --
> Walter Clayton
> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>
>
> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:hJq_d.39852$3z.7435@okepread03...
>> Ran your memtest86 thing and that was just a waste of 2 hours. All that
>> "puppy" does is bark at my big dog (Sony Vaio). And it passed 9 times
>> with no errors. Finally I said enough is enough and pressed esc to end
>> the nonsense.
>>
>> Bruce
>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvpsAM.org> wrote in message
>> news:eIwvxIqKFHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> To clarify what David said, the real error messages are what counts.
>>> You're focusing on and reading too much into normal messages. Check
>>> eventvwr.msc.
>>>
>>> Start here http://www.memtest86.com/ and let this puppy check do a heavy
>>> test of your memory.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Clayton
>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce Roberson" <bruceroberson@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:p G4_d.39215$3z.24464@okepread03...
>>>> None of the hardware components are malfunctioning at all.. It just
>>>> gives that stupid screen at bootup on a random, not continuous basis. I
>>>> have experimented now for a month almost.
>>>>
>>>> I have gone into the device manager and checked for hardware conflicts
>>>> using msinfo32 or whatever that is. It did not show any conflicts.
>>>> Again, this happens randomly at bootup, and then the computer behaves
>>>> fine after it gets into Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I would just like to figure out an approach to solve the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Any other ideas?
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>> "Walter Clayton" <w-claytonNO@SPmvps.AMorg> wrote in message
>>>> news:u$HClOoKFHA.4092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>> You're looking in the wrong place.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's perfectly normal for the system to decide not to load a driver if
>>>>> the hardware doesn't need the driver or some other function doesn't
>>>>> need the driver.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look to your hardware first. Suspect, although not in any particular
>>>>> order, power supply, memory, processor; don't rule out other
>>>>> components either.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Walter Clayton
>>>>> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
>>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce Roberson" <Bruceroberson@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:lMVZd.38174$3z.25652@okepread03...
>>>>>> This is an excerpt from the file ntbtlog.txt showing the drivers not
>>>>>> loaded. How can I figure how to eliminate these specific problem
>>>>>> areas. Once every two or three days, I get the screen at bootup
>>>>>> saying Windows faile to load normally, and I get to choose between
>>>>>> using the "last known good configuration" or a normal windows load.
>>>>>> Its a black screen with white text etc. I figured out how to find the
>>>>>> bootlog file ntbtlog.txt, but now that I see the offending drivers, I
>>>>>> don't know what they are to know what to do to keep them from being a
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the offending lines:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\NDProxy.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\lbrtfdc.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Sfloppy.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\i2omgmt.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Changer.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\Cdaudio.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\kbdhid.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\processr.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\PCIDump.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\rdbss.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\mrxsmb.sys
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\mrtRate.SYS
>>>>>> Did not load driver \SystemRoot\System32\DRIVERS\ipnat.sys
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 27, 2005 9:47:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

First the surge protector power strip (if properly
constructed) is electrically equivalent to a $3 power strip
without the $0.10 parts inside. Furthermore, it is better
that all interconnected equipment share a common safety
ground.

Second, if startup power is a problem, another likely
suspect is how wall receptacles are wired. Too many just push
that wire in a rear stab lock hole rather than wrap the wire
fully around a tightened screw. Wire must remain connected
with screw loose. Then screw further tightens the
connection. That rear 'stab lock' wiring is sufficient for
lights but is problematic to electronics. Best to follow that
circuit through all wall receptacles back to the breaker box.
Visually confirm every connection is tight. One need not
remove the receptacle. Simply remove the cover plate to
confirm wire uses the screw connector; does not connect behind
receptacle in that 'stab lock' hole.

Third, appreciate what a power supply does. 120 VAC
electric must drop so low than incandescent lamps glow at only
40% intensity - and power supply must still provide every
voltage well in spec. This was required even of power
supplies 30 years ago. One need only see how many AC and DC
voltage conversions occur inside the power supply to
understand why low voltage or spikes do not pass through a
supply. Either the supply provides 100% voltage or computer
shuts down. If supply is properly constructed, then there is
no partial power up.

Is your power supply functioning properly? Asian
manufacturers have discovered an extremely profitable market
selling supply to computer assemblers. Supplies that are
missing essential functions to sell at less than $60 full
retail.

Fourth, if power supply is missing essential functions or
has other unique problems, well, this is why knowledgeable
computer people use their 3.5 digit multimeter. In your case,
the most critical voltages are on the red, orange, yellow, and
gray 'power supply to motherboard' wires during power up.
Those voltages must rise up in less than 2 seconds and remain
fully in the upper 3/4 of limits provide by a chart in: "I
think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5 Feb
2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Marginal voltages any time after the first two seconds will
cause all kinds of strange and seemingly inconsistent
intermittent problems. Without numbers, no one can provide a
useful answer. Meters are so ubiquitous as to be sold even in
Home Depot, Radio Shack, Sears, and Lowes for only $20.

Bruce Roberson wrote:
> What do you think this idea that just popped into my mind?
>
> If its a power problem, do you think the surge protector power
> outlet I use could be messed up, and cause problems booting up
> due to not enough juice flowing through it. And then once its
> up its fine. I know HP told me to take the printer out of the
> surge protector that it needed a dedicated source.
>
> I'm still having the reboot after the initial windows logo comes
> on but it before it goes to a signon screen, then it beeps as if
> restarting, and goes to this screen I've told about that is like
> you turn off a machine before it shuts down. It offers to start
> windows normally, and once you select that, it does start
> normally.
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 28, 2005 12:57:22 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

> Is your power supply functioning properly?
I guess from what you're saying it can't be the power supply. Because the
computer never shuts down once it boots into Windows. The only problem come
about every 3 to 5 cold boots. This morning though I watched it and I could
of predicted it would have a problem.I think what you're saying is that a
power supply either boots up or it doesn't meaning there would be no power
if it weren't working. Right?

What I saw was that there was a like a noticeable delay from the time I
pushed the switch on the computer to the type the little power up beep first
showed up. Then, the Windows XP logo starts, and then the beep comes again
that occurred when it was first powered on denoting a second power up
attempt.
Then the Windows XP logo again, and this time, then comes the black screen
saying that I could either

"Start Windows Normally" which I always choose, or go in with safe mode, or
with last known configuration.

The short of it is that is the type of screen you always get if you turn the
power off without properly shutting down Windows.

So, I'm tempted to first go buy a new surge protector since this one I use
now has probably been around a while. And then if it still messes up
occasionally, I will have to consider the possibility that a Sony Vaio
(which I thought Sony anything was as close to perfection in machinery as it
gets) actually has a power supply problem. This was after all a refurbished
machine I bought off of Ebay, but it didn't start having these problems
until nearly a year after I got it.

Thanks,


Bruce
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
March 28, 2005 3:40:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

I am saying it could be the power supply AND that a decisive
answer is obtained in only two minutes (point 4). Either a
power works all the time, it never works, OR it exists in an
'in between' mode where sometimes it works and other times it
does not depending (maybe) even on minor room temperature
changes or (maybe) voltage variation on AC mains. Point is to
eliminate the unknown power supply from a list of suspects -
quickly. Unstable power supply can create all type of strange
intermittent problems. If power supply is unstable, then
numbers on that multimeter will go 'out of spec' as the
computer fails. Numbers then make the real problem obvious.

But another suspect (point 2) can also be verified in
minutes. The suspects (in point 1 and 3) typically don't
exist - sometimes only symptoms of another real problem -
often cited by myths as problems because (for example) he does
not even know what is inside a typical power strip protector.

BTW, also review important historical information - error
messages with important error numbers - is stored in the
system (event) log. This being a new point #5. Use Microsoft
Windows help, if necessary, to find and learn what the log
reports. Also Device Manager has been checked for hardware
problems.

Posted were only the first and simplest 'suspects' to
verify. There are many more suspects. But your previous
advisers suspected power problems. If true, then points 1
thru 4 in that previous post were what to and not to suspect
as that power problem.

Bruce Roberson wrote:
>> Is your power supply functioning properly?
> I guess from what you're saying it can't be the power supply. Because the
> computer never shuts down once it boots into Windows. The only problem come
> about every 3 to 5 cold boots. This morning though I watched it and I could
> of predicted it would have a problem.I think what you're saying is that a
> power supply either boots up or it doesn't meaning there would be no power
> if it weren't working. Right?
>
> What I saw was that there was a like a noticeable delay from the time I
> pushed the switch on the computer to the type the little power up beep first
> showed up. Then, the Windows XP logo starts, and then the beep comes again
> that occurred when it was first powered on denoting a second power up
> attempt.
> Then the Windows XP logo again, and this time, then comes the black screen
> saying that I could either
>
> "Start Windows Normally" which I always choose, or go in with safe mode, or
> with last known configuration.
>
> The short of it is that is the type of screen you always get if you turn the
> power off without properly shutting down Windows.
>
> So, I'm tempted to first go buy a new surge protector since this one I use
> now has probably been around a while. And then if it still messes up
> occasionally, I will have to consider the possibility that a Sony Vaio
> (which I thought Sony anything was as close to perfection in machinery as it
> gets) actually has a power supply problem. This was after all a refurbished
> machine I bought off of Ebay, but it didn't start having these problems
> until nearly a year after I got it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
!